Winter Weather 2016/17 - General Discussion

nagdefy

The Irish Winter has always been dominated by milder weather with the odd exception.

We experienced winters at least as mild, if not milder than, the last 20 years during The Medieval Warm Period. Giraldus Cambrensis (1146-1223 AD circa) notes in his work Typographia Hibernia that snow seldom falls in Ireland and when it does it doesn't stay on the ground for very long.

During the mini ice age, 1450-1850, we had more notably colder winters with more common snowfall, some quite exceptionally snowy and cold e.g. the Winter of Lorna Doone 1683-84, most of the 1690s, 1739-40, 1794-95 and 1813-14.

The 20th century, while colder than presently with global warming etc, was warmer than the preceeding centuries. Yet notable large snowfalls occurred in 1909-10, 1917 (January and April), February 1933, 1947, 1951, 1955, 1958 and 1960. And of course the later snows of that century 1963, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1982 and 1987. This century 2000, 2001, 2009 and 2010.

Countrywide snow fell on 17 Christmas days, at a least one of Met Synoptic station, since 1961 (1961, 1962, 1964, 1966, 1970, 1980, 1984, 1990, 1993, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2009 and 2010). There were 9 Christmas days (1964, 1970, 1980, 1993, 1995, 1999, 2004, 2009 and 2010) with snow lying on the ground at 09 am in the morning, during this period.

So while mild has, is and will be our predominant weather theme a total analysis reveals many interesting stories of cold spells and what may be termed 'rogue' snowfalls.

That's what makes snowfall at lower levels so interesting and exciting for many, it's comparative rarity.

Gonzo

nagdefy wrote: »

The 20th century, while colder than presently with global warming etc, was warmer than the preceeding centuries. Yet notable large snowfalls occurred in 1909-10, 1917 (January and April), February 1933, 1947, 1951, 1955, 1958 and 1960. And of course the later snows of that century 1963, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1982 and 1987. This century 2000, 2001, 2009 and 2010.

Countrywide snow fell on 17 Christmas days, at a least one of Met Synoptic station, since 1961 (1961, 1962, 1964, 1966, 1970, 1980, 1984, 1990, 1993, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2009 and 2010). There were 9 Christmas days (1964, 1970, 1980, 1993, 1995, 1999, 2004, 2009 and 2010) with snow lying on the ground at 09 am in the morning, during this period.

goes to show this decade we are experiencing the worst drought of widespread proper snow since the mid to late 90's.

Mars Bar

Today was much more pleasant than that mugginess we had yesterday.

nagdefy

Gonzo wrote: »

goes to show this decade we are experiencing the worst drought of widespread proper snow since the mid to late 90's.

Agreed Gonzo.

I keep stats of Kilkenny and Oak Park temperatures back to 1958. I plot and graph them and the temperatures have risen by about 2.5C. Global warming has kicked in. If you took the freak 2009 and 2010 weather out of it it's been very barren for snowfall since 1991, 25 years ago..

The 80s had snow for everybody frequently enough.

Gonzo

nagdefy wrote: »

Agreed Gonzo.

I keep stats of Kilkenny and Oak Park temperatures back to 1958. I plot and graph them and the temperatures have risen by about 2.5C. Global warming has kicked in. If you took the freak 2009 and 2010 weather out of it it's been very barren for snowfall since 1991, 25 years ago..

The 80s had snow for everybody frequently enough.

basically we've only had 3 major snow falls since 1991.

Dublin experienced a major fall I think Winter 1998, but this was mainly just the city. We didn't see a single flake from that.

so that leaves Winter 2000 which has several days of deep snow, then 2009 and 2010. Barely any lying snow here since Christmas Day 2010, and what did stick only lasted an hour or 2 on the ground.

nagdefy

Gonzo wrote: »

basically we've only had 3 major snow falls since 1991.

Dublin experienced a major fall I think Winter 1998, but this was mainly just the city. We didn't see a single flake from that.

so that leaves Winter 2000 which has several days of deep snow, then 2009 and 2010. Barely any lying snow here since Christmas Day 2010, and what did stick only lasted an hour or 2 on the ground.

Decent lasting snow generally comes at the back end of winter, Jan and Feb. Even in the 80s pre Christmas snow like 1981 was rare. That's why we live in hope!

If it's mild up to 14 February and the forecast is mild that's when i stop model watching for cold. Bar an exception like 2001 or 2013 snow in the North the days get too long etc.

mickger844posts

Damp, misty conditions have returned here since mid afternoon. It really changed so fast. Up to 2pm it was sunny but then the cloud moved in.

www.waterfordweather.com

Oneiric 3

ArKl0w wrote: »

A hill climate in any country though is not the same as the countries normal climate where most people live.
Aswell as that,periods of anti cyclonic inversion cold don't count in any winter in my book as they won't lead to snow

I can't agree Arklow. The most recent inversion cold brought some hard frosts and some dense freezing fogs to many midland and western areas. A -7.3c under a shallow anticyclonic inversion, which did occur in Markee, Sligo, is going to feel no less cold than a -7.3c under colder air mass (unless there is wind of course :P)
Bottom line is, the last couple of weeks were as wintry and seasonal as I have seen in a very long while here locally with frosts lingering in the shade for days on end.

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

Last weeks cold frosty foggy was a real breath of fresh air. It was a real wonderland around North Tipp with the fields covered in a real hard frost and the fog lasted all day. It's been quiet awhile since I have seen more than one day like that and to honest when they come that early in the winter and the Athlantic breaks through it very rarely repeats itself.

Lucreto

Look at what the US will potentially get next week



A little jealous but once it doesn't create storm after storm after storm on our side.

Captain Snow

Lucreto wrote: »

Look at what the US will potentially get next week



A little jealous but once it doesn't create storm after storm after storm on our side.

Its minus 20 C here today in Calgary and going to get colder.....:D

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

Captain Snow wrote: »

Its minus 20 C here today in Calgary and going to get colder.....:D

Stop bragging.

nagdefy

When younger and watching weather charts for hints of really deep snow and cold i often wasted a winter living in FI Constantly wishing days, weeks away to get to the holy grail.

Now that i'm a little older and hopefully wiser i enjoy each day's weather as it comes. If it's 12C and sunny like today, marvellous. If it's wet and windy i enjoy cycling and running just the same. When the weather is dull and grey, like the first few days of this week, i get out when i can and say to myself 'look i could be living in an area with no daylight at this time of year'. Could be like Skackleton, Tom Crean et al trapped on the Endurance in Antartica in 1915 during a long, dark winter.

In a spell of weather like this, with mildness guaranteed for 7-10 days, as a cold lover first and foremost, i don't look at the meteociel charts at all. No point wishing your life away looking for really cold weather that won't materialise the vast majority of time. Enjoy what weather today brings and let snow and cold creep up and surprise The one thing 2009 and 2010 taught us is real cold and snow is still possible in the early 21st century.

sideswipe

nagdefy wrote: »

When younger and watching weather charts for hints of really deep snow and cold i often wasted a winter living in FI Constantly wishing days, weeks away to get to the holy grail.

Now that i'm a little older and hopefully wiser i enjoy each day's weather as it comes. If it's 12C and sunny like today, marvellous. If it's wet and windy i enjoy cycling and running just the same. When the weather is dull and grey, like the first few days of this week, i get out when i can and say to myself 'look i could be living in an area with no daylight at this time of year'. Could be like Skackleton, Tom Crean et al trapped on the Endurance in Antartica in 1915 during a long, dark winter.

In a spell of weather like this, with mildness guaranteed for 7-10 days, as a cold lover first and foremost, i don't look at the meteociel charts at all. No point wishing your life away looking for really cold weather that won't materialise the vast majority of time. Enjoy what weather today brings and let snow and cold creep up and surprise The one thing 2009 and 2010 taught us is real cold and snow is still possible in the early 21st century.

Stop talking sense.

We Want Snow!!

ArKl0w

sideswipe wrote: »

Stop talking sense.

We Want Snow!!

There will be in the west probably after Xmas on the back end of the huge Atlantic storms brought on by the remains of the Canadian polar vortex entering the Atlantic
It will probably follow the floods in showers and last 12 to 36hrs at a time
I can't remember if last year or 2014 is the template

Gonzo

still nothing remotely exciting on the horizon between now and Christmas.

Greece and southern Italy look like they could get serious dumpings of snow even to low levels around 17th December.

Oscar Bravo

Dry and bright and very mild in castlebar, good drying

ArKl0w

Light rain here all day
Very dull

Gonzo

drizzely, damp mild muck, dark skies.

Oneiric 3

Chart showing national 7 day temp anomaly over the last month or so. Really rocketing back up into positive territory now after the cooler period. For the hell of it I stuck in data from 2010 for the same period just to show what is possible at this time of year.

Data is C/O Met Éireann

rahmalec

Lucreto wrote: »

Look at what the US will potentially get next week



A little jealous but once it doesn't create storm after storm after storm on our side.

Bollocks!
This probably means endless blasting wind and storms for us same as last few years.

TBH don't mind lack of snow, even a bit of rain, as long as it's not blasting wind. Makes it impossible to cycle. Last few weeks have been perfect :-)

Gonzo

think i'll order the same number of straws as the last 5 winters.

mickger844posts

Mild muck again today. Hopefully somewhat of an improvement over the weekend.
In general the outlook for sustained decent cold looks bleak if the models are to be believed.
The final nail in the coffin may be The Polar Vortex affecting North America next week.
For lovers of extremes we may see some decent storms with energy being pushed across the Atlantic. Hears hoping anyway

pauldry

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Chart showing national 7 day temp anomaly over the last month or so. Really rocketing back up into positive territory now after the cooler period. For the hell of it I stuck in data from 2010 for the same period just to show what is possible at this time of year.

Data is C/O Met Éireann

Wow we were colder than 2010 for a week

nagdefy

With things a little quiet weatherwise i was thinking of a few occasions when..

Wintry Snowy Weather Had An Effect On Irish History

Ok we'll head back to Christmas Eve 1591. Red Hugh O'Donnell, son of the O'Donnell Chieftain, is imprisoned in Dublin Castle by Queen Elizabeth I's government as part of her plans to bring the O'Donnell clan to heel. Hugh O'Donnell escapes with brothers Art and Henry of the O'Neill clan from the castle. Dublin is experiencing heavy snowfall. The 3 men make for the Wicklow mountains where they hope to seek refuge with the gaelic chief Fiach McHugh O'Byrne of Glenmalure. Art O'Neill dies of exposure in the Wicklow mountains. Henry O'Neill and Red Hugh O'Donnell both make it to Glenmalure. Hugh lost both big toes to frostbite and walks with a limp for the rest of his life. Red Hugh played a prominent role with Hugh O'Neill in the 9 Years War (1594-1603) when the Gaelic Irish almost overthrew Tudor English rule in Ireland. Had Red Hugh died the course of Irish history may have been different, particularly with decisions made at the Battle of Kinsale, 1601, which the Irish lost and it marked an end to Gaelic dominance in Ireland outside the Pale.

Towards the end of 1846 the first great wave of deaths from the Irish potato famine began. The Whig government of Lord John Russell brought in a series of public works schemes whereby people striken by famine could earn between 8 and 15 pence a day working piece-work. By December 1846 snowfall was widespread with drifting winds. A lot of the works were roads in the middle of rural areas that served no purpose. The money paid was not sufficient to feed parents and a family. But a little money was better than nothing. So malnourished, disease stricken men, women and little boys worked at breaking stones and carrying sacks of stones on their scantily clad backs, often bare foot. This in atrocious weather, severe cold and snowstorms. Many died on the sides of the road with the stone sacks frozen to their bodies. The severe wintry weather continued into 1847. The snow blizzards and severe frosts of this winter added to and hastened the number of famine deaths accross the country.

In March 1867 the secret Fenian group or IRB (Irish Republican Brotherhood) planned to rise up against the British Crown. On the night of the 5th March men assembled in areas such as Tipperary, Limerick, Sligo, Louth and Tallaght with very limited success. The British intelligence system had broken down the IRB system of groups of small circles of men which was designed to be watertight, but obviously wasn't. There was a heavy snowstorm on the night of the uprising, causing chaos and making communication between the various groups extremely difficult. Add to that the fact that the insurgents were poorly armed and very few had any experience of how to wage war. Again wintry weather, and in particular snowfall played a role in Irish history. Now of course if the weather had been perfect the IRB rising wasn't going to succeed as planned anyway but it would have helped!

Seeing as it's the Centenary of the 1916 Rising here's a little snowy weather related anecdote.. Joseph Mary Plunkett, one of the Rising leaders, was executed in May 1916. He was dying of TB at the time and spent much of the Rising lying on a bed. In February 1917 his father, Count George Plunkett (a papal Count) ran for election to Westminister in Roscommon as part of a revamped Sinn Fein. The idea being to abstain from Westminister if elected, which he was. Up until 1947 in Roscommon (and much of Ireland) a February 1917 snowfall tended to stick out in peoples' memories. Count Plunkett was elected to parliament in this blizzard of February 1917. The election was a by-election and the first victory for the pan Nationalist party that was Sinn Fein at this time.

That concludes my little discourse on Snowfall and Irish History. I'm sure i've forgotten a few stories but will add them if they come to mind.

hotwhiskey

^^^
Ok lets start a Boards.ie weather rebellion for the sake of the country (cough mean weather) and the snow will come. Simple.

JCX BXC

Extremely heavy shower passing through West Clare now, unexpected!

Captain Snow

Got this from a mate.

1962 1963 Winter charts and Photos. Its a good read and has all the charts for that winter.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mtullett/1962-63/

Meteorite58

Some rain around mid morning ( more so over by Tralee ) lasting around 20 mins and after that it cleared to become a fine sunny day getting up to 12.4C here near Tralee. Looking quite good for tomorrow too.

Meteorite58

Looking like a spell of rain Mon, Weds , Thurs and Fri .

Thurs and Fri could be quite wet and windy as a large system moves up off the W coast and as it fills moves in over Ireland on Fri, early days yet for finer details but looks like the W and SW would get the most winds, nothing stormy but possibly reaching gale at sea and blustery on the coasts I would think .