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140 rules, cramped accommodation and cash in hand

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    #32
    ...__...
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭...__...


    Patrick Magnificent Vision wrote: »
    Leaving aside this over the top scenario a licensee is a guest in the persons home, why on earth should they get rights?

    Any move to give them tenancy rights will be the end of people renting out rooms in their home and a large number of rooms will disappear off the rental market. No way on earth should the government be overhauling any laws regarding licensees.

    If you were unfortunate enough to have to stay in a room with 6 other people mold rolling off the wall and no idea if you would still be there next week you would really hope there was some safety net.
    At least for minimum standards at the very least if your paying for something shouldn't it be to a standard?

    Its because of "market rates aka greed" that these places thrive who can afford a double room in Lucan for 7-800 a month? or a single for 600? plus bills and taxi fare if your unfortunate enough to finish work after 1130 at night.
    There is no proper transport in this city so anyone who works late in the city has to either live close and pay ridiculous rent or get a taxi home every night. and with rents in the suburbs at stupid amounts then that's not possible either.


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    #33
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    ...__... wrote: »
    At least for minimum standards at the very least if your paying for something shouldn't it be to a standard?

    There are minimum standards, they appear to be one of the many rules/laws being flouted in this case. Not by the real landlord I might add.


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    #34
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Graham wrote: »
    I'm not sure there's many people arguing the eviction rules are fair on landlords Pilly.

    Stories of this particular woman have been reaching all over the place for a while by the looks of it:

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.e-dublin.com.br%2Fo-intercambio-me-fez-perceber-que-e-possivel-ser-feliz-sozinho%2F

    No, my point was some people earlier in this thread were saying that the rules (the 104) she had in place were reasonable and as licences the people staying there had no rights.


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    #35
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,965 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    You're not going to find many Irish people putting up with this sh­it.

    Was it the Irish or the Scots who invented hot-boxing? We ain't seen nothing yet.


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    #36
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    pilly wrote: »
    No, my point was some people earlier in this thread were saying that the rules (the 104) she had in place were reasonable and as licences the people staying there had no rights.

    Ahhh ok. I'd agree, the rules were nuts and would be enough to send most reasonable people running.


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    #37
    ...__...
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭...__...


    Graham wrote: »
    There are minimum standards, they appear to be one of the many rules/laws being flouted in this case. Not by the real landlord I might add.

    There is no legal requirement for your accommodation to meet minimum physical standards

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html

    One of the caveats of sharing with a landlord or being a sub-tennant is there are no rules governing minimum standards


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    #38
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/exclusive-meet-the-108-crazy-rule-woman-with-orders-of-almost-40k-in-rent-arrears-35260503.html


    Its cases like this that bring the plight of landords to non landlords . Its near impossible to get rid of a tenant in ireland even one clearly abusing the lease they were given. But no new law will come into place so such tenants can be evicted easily as the general public dont see it and that means no votes.


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    #39
    Eimee90
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Eimee90


    I think its unbelievably controlling of someone to write a list like that. Controlling every aspect of their lives in that it seems


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ...__... wrote: »
    If you were unfortunate enough to have to stay in a room with 6 other people mold rolling off the wall and no idea if you would still be there next week you would really hope there was some safety net.
    At least for minimum standards at the very least if your paying for something shouldn't it be to a standard?

    Nobody is forcing them to live there and while a licensee has no rights, they also (unlike a tenant) have no obligations and can simply up and leave a place as when they want with no notice or no contract to respect.

    ...__... wrote: »
    Its because of "market rates aka greed" that these places thrive who can afford a double room in Lucan for 7-800 a month? or a single for 600? plus bills and taxi fare if your unfortunate enough to finish work after 1130 at night.
    There is no proper transport in this city so anyone who works late in the city has to either live close and pay ridiculous rent or get a taxi home every night. and with rents in the suburbs at stupid amounts then that's not possible either.

    Or get a car of course....


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    #41
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Patrick Magnificent Vision wrote: »

    Nobody is forcing them to live there and while a licensee has no rights, they also (unlike a tenant) have no obligations and can simply up and leave a place as when they want with no notice or no contract to respect.

    In the current rental market I think that it is unfair to suggest that these people have a choice. Simple economics suggest that they dont.


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    #42
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Regarding the bit under rule 72, of putting their property without notice into a hostel of her choosing; wow!
    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    They've always been around though, I remember in a block a friend of mine was staying in Dublin once around 6/7 years ago, there was a group of 6 Brazilians staying in a two bed flat on the same floor.
    Was that in Drumcondra, by any chance?

    =-=

    I wonder if any of those rules are actually enforceable, if they weren't agreed to by the licensees?


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    #43
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,192 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    How is she getting away with it? :pac:

    I will admit I don't know much about the law when it comes to renting and things. But say I rent a 3 bedroom house and sub-let the two other rooms while the landlord hasn't got a clue. But then finds out... They can hand me a notice and evict me surely? Wouldnt there also be breaking the law aspect too? As you're illegally renting out rooms.

    Just sounds so weird how people get away with it.


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    #44
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    They can hand me a notice and evict me surely? Wouldnt there also be breaking the law aspect too? As you're illegally renting out rooms.
    They can start the eviction process, which may take months. In that time period, the landlords tenant may stop paying rent. If it's all cash in hand, the landlord may find it hard to prove that the tenant has anymore money than what they get on SW, and thus the landlord may have a hard time getting owed rent back.


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    #45
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    handlemaster wrote: »
    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/exclusive-meet-the-108-crazy-rule-woman-with-orders-of-almost-40k-in-rent-arrears-35260503.html


    Its cases like this that bring the plight of landords to non landlords . Its near impossible to get rid of a tenant in ireland even one clearly abusing the lease they were given. But no new law will come into place so such tenants can be evicted easily as the general public dont see it and that means no votes.

    From the sounds of it, she has been evicted from a few property's.


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    #46
    ...__...
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭...__...


    Patrick Magnificent Vision wrote: »
    Nobody is forcing them to live there and while a licensee has no rights, they also (unlike a tenant) have no obligations and can simply up and leave a place as when they want with no notice or no contract to respect.



    Or get a car of course....


    That should be addressed too there should be a minimum notice period albeit reduced say 2 weeks ample time to find an alternative.

    Get a car how can a low paid worker afford the massive insurance premiums.
    Not everyone is in the position of earning 35000 a year with a full licence when they arrive in Ireland.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    godtabh wrote: »
    In the current rental market I think that it is unfair to suggest that these people have a choice. Simple economics suggest that they dont.

    It's difficult no doubt but it's not impossible by any means especially if it's a room you are looking for rather than a full house/apartment.
    ...__... wrote: »
    That should be addressed too there should be a minimum notice period albeit reduced say 2 weeks ample time to find an alternative.
    .

    This will never happen, you can't apply rules like this when they are living in a persons home. A person should have full control over their home and if they choose to rent a room they have and should retain the power to change their mind, get a different person if they don't like the person there etc etc.

    As I said try to introduce this and it will do nothing but reduce the number of rooms being rented. The vast majority of people are reasonable anyway and give adequate notice to licensees, treat them with respect etc. But a bad licensee should not have any rights not even a days notice if the home owner is unhappy with them in their home.


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    #48
    ...__...
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭...__...


    Patrick Magnificent Vision wrote: »
    It's difficult no doubt but it's not impossible by any means especially if it's a room you are looking for rather than a full house/apartment.



    This will never happen, you can't apply rules like this when they are living in a persons home. A person should have full control over their home and if they choose to rent a room they have and should retain the power to change their mind, get a different person if they don't like the person there etc etc.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not asking for reasons for eviction just a baseline of say 2 weeks for non anti social behavior where a person has a reasonable chance of finding a new home.

    Do you not think its unjust that an owner occupier can throw someone out with 24 hours notice just because they don't like the way they dress for example?


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ...__... wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong I'm not asking for reasons for eviction just a baseline of say 2 weeks for non anti social behavior where a person has a reasonable chance of finding a new home.

    Do you not think its unjust that an owner occupier can throw someone out with 24 hours notice just because they don't like the way they dress for example?

    As I said in my edit above the vast majority of people renting out a room will give adequate notice, a few off the wall cases are not a reason to go mad with regulations.

    How many people are thrown out for the way they dress? Not a single licensee ever probably, as I said you don't make rules for things that will most likely never happen.


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    #50
    ...__...
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭...__...


    Patrick Magnificent Vision wrote: »
    As I said in my edit above the vast majority of people renting out a room will give adequate notice, a few off the wall cases are not a reason to go mad with regulations.

    But its the off the wall cases where people suffer the most.
    Look at the original case here that woman will not give back the deposits and know there is f all anyone can do about it.
    The tenants/licencees will be left with nothing but a bad experience.
    Same for the landlord there should be no way someone can accrue more than one months rent in arrears without a change the locks scenario its not all poor tenants I know that.
    The system is outdated and leaves too much ambiguity for people to take advantage on both sides.


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    #51
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    the_syco wrote: »
    Was that in Drumcondra, by any chance?

    No, the Liberties. Not that they're isolated incidents, I'm sure half the Brazilians in Dublin are in similar circumstances.


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    #52
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    handlemaster wrote: »
    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/exclusive-meet-the-108-crazy-rule-woman-with-orders-of-almost-40k-in-rent-arrears-35260503.html


    Its cases like this that bring the plight of landords  to non landlords . Its near impossible to get rid of a tenant in ireland even one clearly abusing  the lease they were given. But no new law will come into  place so such tenants can be evicted  easily as the  general  public dont see it and that means no votes.

    From the sounds of it, she has been evicted from a few property's.
    stronger laws for landlords on this front would make it easier for good tenants to find a place


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    #53
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Graham wrote: »
    Correct.

    Some poor landlord is going to have to try and put the property back together after she's gone on top of saying goodbye to a significant chunk of rent.

    She's been evicted but isn't gone, and still she's at it, madness.
    If this was a landlord people would be baying for blood, yet the topic of conversation has diverted away from her.
    Despite that, some of the rules are actually reasonable, but some of them are extreme and unreasonable I think it's obvious how they balance out, asking people to clean their own mess and be considerate is ok, even not having guests staying is fair, having shared a few places, i wouldn't want complete strangers wandering around at will, obviously the heating rules, coming and going times etc and others are obviously ott.
    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    How is she getting away with it? :pac:

    I will admit I don't know much about the law when it comes to renting and things. But say I rent a 3 bedroom house and sub-let the two other rooms while the landlord hasn't got a clue. But then finds out... They can hand me a notice and evict me surely? Wouldnt there also be breaking the law aspect too? As you're illegally renting out rooms.

    Just sounds so weird how people get away with it.

    Probably couldn't even start the eviction process, first have to warn them to stop the activity, then take a case, all the while she is cleaning up and acting despicably, her name sounds Brazilian possibly,
    Should be possible to get someone like this out asap. She will destroy that property subletting it, just goes to highlight deterioration caused by excessive use causes excessive wear re mould and other wear and tear no doubt.

    Honestly, I think the only way a rented place can be adequately ventilated to prevent mould will be by mechanical ventilation.
    ...__... wrote: »
    But its the off the wall cases where people suffer the most.
    Look at the original case here that woman will not give back the deposits and know there is f all anyone can do about it.
    The tenants/licencees will be left with nothing but a bad experience.
    Same for the landlord there should be no way someone can accrue more than one months rent in arrears without a change the locks scenario its not all poor tenants I know that.
    The system is outdated and leaves too much ambiguity for people to take advantage on both sides.

    You seem to be referring to people subletting like they are living in an owner's occupied house, they are not one and the same thing and then go on to refer to landlords, this is a case of someone renting a house illegally subletting.
    You seem to be seeking regulation for completely different scenarios some for which regulation already exists but also want to push for rules for how someone can let rooms in their own home?!


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    #54
    _Jamie_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭_Jamie_


    seamus wrote: »
    This is all very normal stuff, simple human decency when house sharing. I also don't see the problem with asking people to shower daily and use deodorant. Nobody likes a smelly housemate.

    Lots of people shower every other day. I'd actually have a huge problem with someone telling me to shower daily. And the jury is out on whether showering daily is the optimum anyway.

    And the other common decency stuff doesn't need to be said. It's patronising. I'm going to guess pretty much everyone knows not to go near anyone else's mail, for example. She'd be a nightmare to live with.

    TBH, you and others who are saying the rules seem grand are coming across blatantly devil's advocate-y. They are not fine or even close and I doubt any of you would be OK living under those rules if your circumstances were different and it was your only choice.


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