2 Week Ban from Aviation and Aircraft.

JCX BXC

Very Dissatisfied with the moderation of Aviation and Aircraft as of late. I feel as if Mod Decisions as of late have been very one sided, allowing certain knowledgeable users get away with everything, while I feel as if I have been penalised as a result of simply being disliked.

I flagged this around 2 weeks ago, and sent the following post to a category moderator, (Names of users omitted due to this being public)

JCX BXC wrote:

I'm not sure if here is the correct place to complain, but I've really had it with moderating in Aviation and Aircraft. I feel as if Mod decisions favour other users, in a type of protectionism way, they are heavy handed in my situation, and every effort is being made to root me out of the forum. I've not had this issue up to now, and I feel as if there has been no worsening in my conduct.

Example, warning on the 31st of October:

Dear Carnacalla,

You have been warned for being uncivil.

Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ.



Moderator Note

you really can't post something like this, and complain that users have it in for you. I've see you are looking for an ID change, please use that change to move on from some of these confrontations, I don't want to have to limit your access to the forum

Your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnacalla View Post
Quote:
Sorry, I forgot you know everything, you're as bad as the other two.
Have a good one
Respectfully [username], you do know lots of information and are of alot of value to discussion, but like everyone here, you're not always right.

Its getting more toxic by the day on here.

Thread location:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056950137&page=150

Have a look there, [username] had ravaged across the forum for a while now, insulting anyone who has any information that disagrees with his information. No different here, yet he gets away scott free. My remark, is the one that gets the warning and clear punishment, as well as a mod note in the PM that I can't really publish something like that as other users already hate me.

That is just not right.

Example of warning today:

Dear JCX BXC,

You have been warned for ignoring a moderator's instructions.

Discussion can become heated, we don't object to that, but when a moderator issues a warning on a thread to reign things in, it stops a heated discussion from turning into a mess.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ.




Moderator Note

Let it go and move on, or you will be taking a holiday. [Mod Name] was very specific and clear in his comment, having the information and being able to put it into a public forum are two very different issues, We are happy that this incident did not occur,

Your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCX BXC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Mod Name] View Post
Suffice to says that the report was from an online media outlet, which was then noted on a more reputable aviation website. With a little research (thanks to someone who was able to provide 100% proof which was then passed on to the reputable website) the initial report on the incident was proven incorrect.
Thus the reaction, which we have all moved on from.
No need for anymore querying of the situation.
I've not seen any evidence of this, was querying that, if someone could provide a link, why the article was still online etc, which I see nothing wrong with.

Thread location: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057668452&page=2

My post has since been removed, can't see why, but basically it was at 4pm and after [Mod Name] post. I feel as if this mod warning was targeted, I see no issue with what I've asked, it has infact not been backed up since so I'm still wondering how it was found to be incorrect (Which I've no doubt about, its Joe.ie for god sake). User hostility is strong towards me, as is mod hostility. Warning is not needed here, and is again a clear example of an agenda.

Generally I don't feel as if the world is against me, nor do I feel here, but I feel as if my enjoyment of the forum is being severely curtailed as no fault of my own and I feel this needs to be fixed. I've brought up the issue with both [Mod 1] and [Mod 2] to no resolution. I feel a review is needed very soon of the whole moderation of Aviation and Aircraft.

I am not sure where this complaint should go to, a Category moderator seems like the right place.

This went unanswered, no response given.

In regards to the ban given yesterday, User 1 (Different to the user flagged above, which incident was relatively isolated) gave this comment "Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else. But I am sure you were telling us all recently about your experiences on the M50. "

The story behind this comment was a point I had made in a thread about how from my experience the M50 was not jammed to the max at all hours of the day, only during peak times. Since this, the user in question has brought this up several times in an insulting manner, made insulting comments about me changing my username blah blah blah, making the use of the forum quite annoying at times. I don't see anything being done about this.

After the user named above made that final comment about the M50, I reported it. Another user flagged how User 1 was being very cynical and unhelpful in regards to a query from another user, and I replied it "Because its [username] and he can say what he likes here seemingly!". This comment resulted in my ban, and has since been thanked by 4 different users.

The following MOD note was given in the thread "Im going to derail the thread here to interject a little bit of moderation that has been been held back for a while now. 2 posters on this thread have just been banned for 2 weeks for the forum.
Over the last number of weeks they have repeatedly broached acceptable behaviour whether it is backseat modding, trolling other posters, sniping comments at each other, sniping comments at other posters, reporting posts for personal comments when they themselves are posting similar comments themselves, getting reported by other posters for stiring the pot in various threads.
Here is the report that was submitted a little bit earlier today:
"Ridiculous. Moderation here has gone to ****e, ye let certain users run the show and get away with everything."

The volunteer mods have been in discussion and the mods are very easy going on this forum. The mods are willing to allow a certain latitude. They are even willing to allow some open dissent, however approx 10 days ago we decided we had had enough and than the next time the line was crossed bans would be issued.
Both bans have been issued in this thread however the bans were not specifically for the posts in this thread, but for repeated behaviour over the last 2-3 months on this forum.
Thus, enjoy the holiday from A&A and we will look forward to your contributions in December."

Important to note than I made the report that was mentioned above. I'd agree that moderation has been slack with everyone other than with me. Over the last 2 months I have received the level of abuse that I cannot imagine would be acceptable on any other forum or website, which is quite depressing considering the forum in question is one that I had enjoyed to such an extent.

I would also like to flag a PM entitled "seemingly" that I would consider borderline abusive before being banned but after the comment I had made in the thread. It is as follows "At least I have the balls to post under my own name.
Yours sincerely.
[signed by username]"

I immediately sent 2 PM's to the mod who issued the ban, "Two weeks for that? And all the abuse I get on here? Ridiculous. Immediate removal or appeal process please." and "When reporting a PM, where does it go? Did ye get the PM report of [USER 1] PM?" along with a copy of the PM. Both of these were sent before 9pm yesterday evening, and have not been answered. I assume they will not be either, as the only correspondence I receive is unwarranted warnings, all messages sent back ignored, which is in itself unacceptable.

I feel as if this ban is unjustified, and only achieves purposely driving me away from the forum. I also feel that this, along with other incidents flag serious issues with the moderation of the forum.

I would ask for the moderation of the forum be reviewed and my ban be removed.

dudara

Reported PMs are only seen by Admins, not by forum mods. So the mod would not know about the reported PM you were referring to.

We encourage users to try to resolve bans etc directly with the forum mods. Have the forum mods responded to your PM yet?

JCX BXC

dudara wrote: »

Reported PMs are only seen by Admins, not by forum mods. So the mod would not know about the reported PM you were referring to.

We encourage users to try to resolve bans etc directly with the forum mods. Have the forum mods responded to your PM yet?

Understood regarding the PM's, I did attack a copy of the PM to the PM I sent to the mod. The moderator has not responded to my PM yet no, I don't expect a response, the Moderators haven't responded to a PM of mine in quite a while, regarding warnings or not. I think this is an issue in itself, especially as a CMod also ignored a PM.

Edit: I would be willing to wait until tomorrow evening in order to give the mod a chance to respond, but I feel as if I have already given ample time.

dudara

OK, I'll contact the CMods & ask them to start looking into this.

tricky D

I'll take a look at this, dudara. Give Tenger a while to respond as he may be on shift until later.

JCX BXC

tricky D wrote: »

Ill take a look at this, dudara. Give Tenger a while to respond as he may be on shift until later.

Will do, I understand Mod do have lives as well. Could I also ask why you ignored my last PM or is here not a suitable place to ask?

dudara

Can I please remind everyone that only the OP and members of the Mod/CMod/Admin team can post in this thread. Any other posts will be deleted.

dudara

JCX BXC

It's been nearly 48 hours since I sent the PM, no reply.

tricky D

Ok. I'll look at it overnight. Need a bit of time as it's a cumulative sanction so more than usual to go through.

JCX BXC

Thanks

tricky D

Ban Upheld

Parsing your complaint:

One-sided moderation:
The other user in question has also received a similar sanction so that holds no water. Also not all mod actions are visible to you. Likewise not all mod actions in relation to you are visible to others. That actions might not be visible doesn't mean some one is getting away scot-free.

there has been no worsening in my conduct

Disagree. The bickering has just got worse and worse. In the past 8 days you have made 3 somewhat retaliatory Reported Posts against the user you have the biggest beef with by my reckoning, complaining of lack of moderation yet these were mainly trite complaints with 2 moaning about moderation despite one thread already having been closed thus acted on and one calling you out on your contradictory M50 experiences - you and no one else caught yourself out on that one.

The retraction thread card was a simple case of ignoring the mod note.

The M50 and username change.
These were commented on but not in a particularly insulting way. You have a beef with that user which is making you view them as insulting.

I replied it "Because its [username] and he can say what he likes here seemingly!". This comment resulted in my ban, and has since been thanked by 4 different users.

More digs at moderation which don't quite hold water. 4 thanks is irrelevant.

The following MOD note was given in the thread "Im going to derail the thread here to interject a little bit of moderation that has been been held back for a while now. 2 posters on this thread have just been banned for 2 weeks for the forum.

Over the last number of weeks they have repeatedly broached acceptable behaviour whether it is backseat modding, trolling other posters, sniping comments at each other, sniping comments at other posters, reporting posts for personal comments when they themselves are posting similar comments themselves, getting reported by other posters for stiring the pot in various threads.
Here is the report that was submitted a little bit earlier today:
"Ridiculous. Moderation here has gone to ****e, ye let certain users run the show and get away with everything."

Again this has been acted on so still holds no water.

Important to note than I made the report that was mentioned above. I'd agree that moderation has been slack with everyone other than with me. Over the last 2 months I have received the level of abuse that I cannot imagine would be acceptable on any other forum or website, which is quite depressing considering the forum in question is one that I had enjoyed to such an extent.

I wouldn't agree at all. You have not been as innocent as you make out and the notion of slackness with other users doesn't hold up as they have been sanctioned and betrays the notion that it is always some one else's fault which it just isn't.

Other notes.
As for moderating taking time, one of your recent RPs was made at 1:17am and actioned within 2 hours which is an excellent response time for that time in the night. Yet again you complain and in a manner suggesting it's the mods' fault.

You have sanctions across a few forums and number in each correlates roughly with your volume of posting in each one, so claims of bias on A&A mods part are not substantiated.

All of the above isn't enough reason for a 2 week ban. It's 2 weeks as a cumulative sanction as there has never been any improvement in your posting due to previous sanctions for: backseat modding, ignoring mod instructions, uncivility, bickering and being a mod time-sink as you are the user with by far the most RPs. As noted, 10 days ago a decision was made to come down harder to cut out the bickering in particular and other bad postings of various hues which is damaging other forum users' experiences. Of late you and a few others have been guilty of this fairly persistently over the last few months with yourself and the other user who I won't name here being particularly guilty. The optics of these interactions just make the parties involved look childish, plain and simple, and keep on derailing threads. That can not continue whether by your hand or ours.

While you point fingers at anybody but yourself, to us it is clearly you who needs to improve your usage of the forum and realise your own responsibilties. So the ban is upheld and additionally you are being placed on probation which means future bans will get longer until and/or unless you improve your postings.

JCX BXC

tricky D wrote: »

Ban Upheld

Parsing your complaint:

One-sided moderation:
The other user in question has also received a similar sanction so that holds no water. Also not all mod actions are visible to you. Likewise not all mod actions in relation to you are visible to others. That actions might not be visible doesn't mean some one is getting away scot-free.

I gave several instances, where it is quite obvious that I have received fairly heavy handed warnings and infractions. I'd like to draw the attention of one I posted in my OP

" Dear Carnacalla,

You have been warned for being uncivil.

Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ.



Moderator Note

you really can't post something like this, and complain that users have it in for you. I've see you are looking for an ID change, please use that change to move on from some of these confrontations, I don't want to have to limit your access to the forum

Your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnacalla View Post
Quote:
Sorry, I forgot you know everything, you're as bad as the other two.
Have a good one
Respectfully [username], you do know lots of information and are of alot of value to discussion, but like everyone here, you're not always right.

Its getting more toxic by the day on here."

I cannot imagine any other user getting a warning for this, and again reflected forum opinion.

Disagree. The bickering has just got worse and worse. In the past 8 days you have made 3 somewhat retaliatory Reported Posts against the user you have the biggest beef with by my reckoning, complaining of lack of moderation yet these were mainly trite complaints with 2 moaning about moderation despite one thread already having been closed thus acted on and one calling you out on your contradictory M50 experiences - you and no one else caught yourself out on that one.

The retraction thread card was a simple case of ignoring the mod note.

The M50 and username change.
These were commented on but not in a particularly insulting way. You have a beef with that user which is making you view them as insulting.

I see no instance that suggests worsening in my conduct, infact I would think it has improved fairly steadily. Due to the hostility of certain users on the forum as of late I watch what I say.

Granted ignoring mod note on the retraction, my fault, but the initial mod note was condescending and again heavy handed given the thing I asked. I has not seen any suggestion of the article being false and was simply asking for clarification.

I stand firm on my M50 opinion, are you suggesting my opinion is wrong? I have as much of a right to express my opinion, it is not insulting towards anyone, I also have a right not to be abused for said opinion.

And regarding not being insulting, firstly why were they commented on for any reason than character defamation and secondly how can this PM not be considered insulting or somewhat threatening?
""At least I have the balls to post under my own name.
Yours sincerely.
[signed by username]""

More digs at moderation which don't quite hold water. 4 thanks is irrelevant.

I see no particular banable issue with my comment, its a fair dig and the thanks are relevant as its the users that keep the forum and site alive, this reflects the opinion of users

I wouldn't agree at all. You have not been as innocent as you make out and the notion of slackness with other users doesn't hold up as they have been sanctioned and betrays the notion that it is always some one else's fault which it just isn't.

Not agree? Have you read posts where certain users dug into my search history to try and attempt to find things to discredit me, insult me etc, that was actually quite upsetting in a way as it was a forum I enjoyed so much.

Other notes.
As for moderating taking time, one of your recent RPs was made at 1:17am and actioned within 2 hours which is an excellent response time for that time in the night. Yet again you complain and in a manner suggesting it's the mods' fault.

I've never complained about the response time, I find it perfectly acceptable. Even if I was, you can't cherrypick examples. I find its either replied to swiftly or not at all (much more of the latter as of late)

You have sanctions across a few forums and number in each correlates roughly with your volume of posting in each one, so claims of bias on A&A mods part are not substantiated.

Only other forum I have a sanction of in my memory is the weather forum, which I have accepted full responsibility for.

All of the above isn't enough reason for a 2 week ban. It's 2 weeks as a cumulative sanction as there has never been any improvement in your posting due to previous sanctions for: backseat modding, ignoring mod instructions, uncivility, bickering and being a mod time-sink as you are the user with by far the most RPs. As noted, 10 days ago a decision was made to come down harder to cut out the bickering in particular and other bad postings of various hues which is damaging other forum users' experiences. Of late you and a few others have been guilty of this fairly persistently over the last few months with yourself and the other user who I won't name here being particularly guilty. The optics of these interactions just make the parties involved look childish, plain and simple, and keep on derailing threads. That can not continue whether by your hand or ours.

I'm not sure being a mod time sink is a valid reason for a ban. I try my best to avoid vast derailment and confrontation and I feel this is obvious from my posts.

While you point fingers at anybody but yourself, to us it is clearly you who needs to improve your usage of the forum and realise your own responsibilties. So the ban is upheld and additionally you are being placed on probation which means future bans will get longer until and/or unless you improve your postings.

I am happy to accept responsibility when I feel action is warranted. I do not feel most of the infractions and warnings are warranted, and this two week ban certainly is not.

I still strongly dispute this ban, I would like this to be passed onto an Admin please.

As a side note, I'd like to ask where I can complain to about this ignoring of PM's for which you yourself are guilty of. I flagged my doubts at the moderating team to you in a PM which was ignored well before my ban. A bit of manners would have gone a long way even with a brief reply.

BuffyBot

Ban upheld. I think the CMod had spelled it out pretty clearly.

I've seen how you behave on that forum over a period of time and I do not feel the sanction was unwarranted. I'm sure you feel differently, or you wouldn't have stated such but alas, I afraid those with a responsibility to look at these things feel much differently.

Mods, CMods and Admin receive numerous PM's about various issues people feel strongly about. While, in an ideal world all would be replied to it is not ways possible to due to times constraints, nor do all merit detailed replies.