N24 Accident - again !!

greenspurs

Yet another accident on the N24 near Piltown! yet another fatality...
When will the County council do something about this deadly stretch of road...
Morons...... Poorly designed, and nothing being done to remedy it!!

road_high

Such a shame...I've always thought the 2+1 road was a good idea but appears there's a big problem in piltown with the junctions.

TheQuietFella

greenspurs wrote: »

Yet another accident on the N24 near Piltown! yet another fatality...
When will the County council do something about this deadly stretch of road...
Morons...... Poorly designed, and nothing being done to remedy it!!

Surely it has more to do with the drivers rather than the council?

cml387

Was this eastbound at the Piltown junction?

There is a double whammy as the eastbound overtaking lane ends just at the junction.

An overpass needs to be built as there is for the Fiddown junction.

Faugheen

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Surely it has more to do with the drivers rather than the council?

If you have ever driven that stretch of road you'd know it's an absolute death trap. I used to drive between Waterford and Carrick a lot and I hated that junction.

TheQuietFella

Faugheen wrote: »

If you have ever driven that stretch of road you'd know it's an absolute death trap. I used to drive between Waterford and Carrick a lot and I hated that junction.

I have driven it many times and I agree with you but the question remains!

Spocker

Is traffic coming from Piltown permitted to turn right toward Carrick at that junction? If so, it's very badly laid out, I can see how an accident would happen there alright.

rayc

>>Is traffic coming from Piltown permitted to turn right toward Carrick at that junction? If so, it's very badly laid out, I can see how an accident would happen there alright.
Yes you can.

You have a 2 + 1 (from Carrick side) merging into a single lane 100 yards from a junction with no filter lanes, where the majority of traffic exiting that junction is then crossing lanes to head back towards Carrick.

>>Surely it has more to do with the drivers rather than the council?

Yes because the people of Piltown and the surrounding area are a statistical anomaly, and are worse drivers than those around all the other 2+1 systems in the country.....

When you are approaching 8 people killed on the same stretch of road (and countless other accidents) within 18 years, serious question of design need to be asked.

greenspurs

Spocker wrote: »

Is traffic coming from Piltown permitted to turn right toward Carrick at that junction? If so, it's very badly laid out, I can see how an accident would happen there alright.

Yes, they are permitted to do so.

Road was never officially opened ( no one would put their name to opening it?!)
DRivers didn't design a road where you go from a 100kmph on a double lane to a single lanes with plastic pillars , and you have to slow down to take a sharp left hand turn to exit off the N24 !
Its a scandal that people have been killed due to inept design.!
Drivers will get the blame, but they didn't design the layout

TheQuietFella

I was driving on the M50 a few nights past heading out to the airport.

I 'undertook' a car who was driving with both sets of fog lamps on (no fog)

driving at 80 kmh in the centre lane whilst he was watching something

on his phone. He passed me later closer to the airport still watching it.

I'm not suggesting that recent incidents have been caused by phone use but

unless 'we' as motorists need to start taking the road seriously there will continue

to be serious fatalities!

Charles Babbage

These 2+1 roads were a great idea, but were poorly implemented. If you look on Google Streetview at the detail of the Swedish 2+1 roads they were based on and then at the Irish junctions it is clear that they spoiled the design for very modest savings on deceleration lanes and the like.

rayc

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I was driving on the M50 a few nights past heading out to the airport.

I 'undertook' a car who was driving with both sets of fog lamps on (no fog)

driving at 80 kmh in the centre lane whilst he was watching something

on his phone. He passed me later closer to the airport still watching it.

I'm not suggesting that recent incidents have been caused by phone use but

unless 'we' as motorists need to start taking the road seriously there will continue

to be serious fatalities!

But that's exactly why you design better roads. Until cars start driving themselves (not long now) there will always be accidents through stupidity, inexperience or lack or concentration. Roads need to be designed understanding this and trying to minimise that risk. If road design was not a factor then motorways would not statistically be the safest roads in the country despite having the highest speed limits.

rayc

Charles Babbage wrote: »

These 2+1 roads were a great idea, but were poorly implemented. If you look on Google Streetview at the detail of the Swedish 2+1 roads they were based on and then at the Irish junctions it is clear that they spoiled the design for very modest savings on deceleration lanes and the like.

Agree completely. They implemented as cheap a version as possible, skimping on filter lanes and fly-overs.

This is the exact issue with this N24 junction, 2 lanes merge just at a very busy junction. If they had just built a flyover with appropriate filter lanes here originally there would be a number of people still alive.

road_high

rayc wrote: »

Agree completely. They implemented as cheap a version as possible, skimping on filter lanes and fly-overs.

This is the exact issue with this N24 junction, 2 lanes merge just at a very busy junction. If they had just built a flyover with appropriate filter lanes here originally there would be a number of people still alive.

And crazily enough this one if the best and newest sections of the whole N24 road. Sadly seems to be deaths yearly the length of it from Limerick to Waterford.

greenspurs

Shane Ross td visited the area last week , and was driven along the route, and was shown the lay out ......

road_high

greenspurs wrote: »

Shane Ross td visited the area last week , and was driven along the route, and was shown the lay out ......

What would he know! It's engineers and road contractors that are needed...political optics to show he's "doing something".

greenspurs

road_high wrote: »

What would he know! It's engineers and road contractors that are needed...politic optics to slow he's "doing something".

Nothing happens without a TD on the side of the change !

Squidvicious

Does anyone know how to solve the problem here bearing in mind that they're probably not going to do a wholesale redesign. Is it a matter of rigidly enforced speed limits, a roundabout at that particularly dangerous Piltown junction or something else? Perhaps I'm naïve but if there was an easy solution, surely the Council would have done something by now?

greenspurs

The main problems are that there are no filter/slow down lanes off the N24 into Turkstown/Fiddown (when coming from Mooncoin direction.
Or into Piltown when coming from Carrick direction.

The solution is a filter/slow down lane for traffic to use so they can slow down and exit the N24 into these junctions.
If you go 2km further on from the Piltown exit, there is a filter lane offthe N24 into the Fiddown junction.
If the lane was there it would eradicate the problem of cars that are turning off into Turkstown or Piltown slowing down from 100kmph to 25-30kmph.
And to fix the problem of cars that are leaving Piltown, and turning right to go to Carrick having to cross the lane to get to the other side , A Overpass like is in Fiddown would solve that .

It seems as they did the whole junction/filter lane/Overpass correctly in Fiddown, but then just didnt bother in Piltown!
Or else did the Piltown one first, and then thought " Jeez we made a balls of that, maybe we should do it right in Fiddown" ..... !

road_high

Squidvicious wrote: »

Does anyone know how to solve the problem here bearing in mind that they're probably not going to do a wholesale redesign. Is it a matter of rigidly enforced speed limits, a roundabout at that particularly dangerous Piltown junction or something else? Perhaps I'm na but if there was an easy solution, surely the Council would have done something by now?

Probably a fully grade separated junction like on the M9 but likely cost a fair amount to do.

Squidvicious

road_high wrote: »

Probably a fully grade separated junction like on the M9 but likely cost a fair amount to do.

Which probably makes it unlikely.

greenspurs

Squidvicious wrote: »

Which probably makes it unlikely.

Or more motorists will die ..... Simple enough.

JimTreacy

road_high wrote: »

Probably a fully grade separated junction like on the M9 but likely cost a fair amount to do.

Money shouldn't matter if it stops whats going on saves lives injuries for life.

Squidvicious

JimTreacy wrote: »

Money shouldn't matter if it stops whats going on saves lives injuries for life.

Within reason, it certainly shouldn't but that's not the way the world works unfortunately....

Chuchote

rayc wrote: »

But that's exactly why you design better roads. Until cars start driving themselves (not long now) there will always be accidents through stupidity, inexperience or lack or concentration. Roads need to be designed understanding this and trying to minimise that risk. If road design was not a factor then motorways would not statistically be the safest roads in the country despite having the highest speed limits.

Even the best designed road won't help if people driving cars are playing with their phones like five-year-olds.

You're controlling tons of machinery!

greenspurs

Chuchote wrote: »

Even the best designed road won't help if people driving cars are playing with their phones like five-year-olds.

You're controlling tons of machinery!

If you have travelled this road, fiddling with phones doesnt matter.
i doubt if anyone could say it is a correctly designed SAFE road to travel.

Chuchote

greenspurs wrote: »

If you have travelled this road, fiddling with phones doesnt matter.
i doubt if anyone could say it is a correctly designed SAFE road to travel.

If I travel that road I'll be on my bike, wobbling along with a basket full of groceries as usual. Some baby who can't put the phone down won't see me and drive safely around me.

road_high

JimTreacy wrote: »

Money shouldn't matter if it stops whats going on saves lives injuries for life.

Ha ha welcome to the real world pal

Chuchote

Rio de Janeiro used to be utterly chaotic. Then they brought in fines for speeding, illegal parking and other driving offences that were equivalent to more than a month's salary. Suddenly all the drivers grew up and the city went from being a hell of speed and chaos to a well-behaved modern city with sane, courteous traffic.

JimTreacy

road_high wrote: »

Ha ha welcome to the real world pal

In it a longtime mate I don't have to be smart with somebody looks like you have an opinion on a lot of things as the saying goes empty vessels make the most noise.

JimTreacy

road_high wrote: »

Ha ha welcome to the real world pal

Did you know anybody killed on that stretch of road I did.

greenspurs

Just saw 2 trucks side by side going flat out between the Fiddown and Piltown junction.
1 in each lane, 2 of them going the same speed, with cars Q'ed up behind them ....

CRAZY !!!! now thats stupid drivers, nothing to do with road layout .........

road_high

JimTreacy wrote: »

Did you know anybody killed on that stretch of road I did.

With all due respect, what had that got to do with the topic? Leave the emotion aside, do you really think they're going to have an endless pit to sort this? They'll have to work within whatever budget allows

road_high

greenspurs wrote: »

Just saw 2 trucks side by side going flat out between the Fiddown and Piltown junction.
1 in each lane, 2 of them going the same speed, with cars Q'ed up behind them ....

CRAZY !!!! now thats stupid drivers, nothing to do with road layout .........

Happens daily on the M9! Extremely irritating and obstructive to other traffic but not as dangerous as what you describe

JimTreacy

road_high wrote: »

With all due respect, what had that got to do with the topic? Leave the emotion aside, do you really think they're going to have an endless pit to sort this? They'll have to work within whatever budget allows

Have you a problem attidude

JimTreacy

road_high wrote: »

With all due respect, what had that got to do with the topic? Leave the emotion aside, do you really think they're going to have an endless pit to sort this? They'll have to work within whatever budget allows

Did I say they had an endless pit to sort this out fair play to you think that my intelligence is like a cow stool in a field. Whats your suggestion you laughed welcomed me to the real world if the job was done right in the first place there wouldn't be a problem.

road_high

JimTreacy wrote: »

Did I say they had an endless pit to sort this out fair play to you think that my intelligence is like a cow stool in a field. Whats your suggestion you laughed welcomed me to the real world if the job was done right in the first place there wouldn't be a problem.

Fully grade separated Junction as I inferred before. But knowing how these things work I'd be surprised if that'll happen.
Well of course, that's why we are discussing it here...if it were designed properly there wouldn't be a problem..,

road_high

JimTreacy wrote: »

Have you a problem attidude

No, but you take an overly emotional approach to discussion which is extremely tedious

JimTreacy

road_high wrote: »

No, but you take an overly emotional approach to discussion which is extremely tedious

Sorry for been such a bore you seem to have an opinion on a lot of things are you a taxi man that has to have an opinion on how the country is run when you get in with them you have to listen to them going on and on, or did you work on the road design feel guilty all the people that were killed or are you a general arsehole that bores everybody. My dear person I have a fair idea how the world works especially in civil engineering one thing in this country accountabillaty is a joke .

Captain Havoc

JimTreacy wrote: »

Have you a problem attidude

This is a discussion forum, people are allowed and encouraged to disagree and give an alternative perspective. Your views may be questioned, it is up to you to answer. Accusing someone of having an attitude problem because they disagree with you is not adding to the discussion.

road_high

JimTreacy wrote: »

Sorry for been such a bore you seem to have an opinion on a lot of things are you a taxi man that has to have an opinion on how the country is run when you get in with them you have to listen to them going on and on, or did you work on the road design feel guilty all the people that were killed or are you a general arsehole that bores everybody. My dear person I have a fair idea how the world works especially in civil engineering one thing in this country accountabillaty is a joke .

LOL
*hate to be a grammar nazi but being is the word you're looking for

Is that your rant over or should we brace ourselves for more?

greenspurs

road_high wrote: »

Happens daily on the M9! Extremely irritating and obstructive to other traffic but not as dangerous as what you describe

Do you think so ?
Would it become dangerous when the 2 lanes merge into one lane ? One of them has to give way....

road_high

greenspurs wrote: »

Do you think so ?
Would it become dangerous when the 2 lanes merge into one lane ? One of them has to give way....

Yes that's what I'm saying. It's very dangerous on the N24.

JohnC.

"Elephant racing" isn't it? I think it would be illegal on the M9 (and motorways in general). Not sure about the overtaking lanes on the N24.

JimTreacy

road_high wrote: »

LOL
*hate to be a grammar nazi but being is the word you're looking for

Is that your rant over or should we brace ourselves for more?

I don't get a star this week.

JimTreacy

Captain Havoc wrote: »

This is a discussion forum, people are allowed and encouraged to disagree and give an alternative perspective. Your views may be questioned, it is up to you to answer. Accusing someone of having an attitude problem because they disagree with you is not adding to the discussion. [/QUOTE
He started it he said to me welcome to the real world he thought the moss was growing over my eyes, I will put him on my ignore list as a person with deep knowledge of the situation he kept trying to be a no all.

greenspurs

road_high wrote: »

Yes that's what I'm saying. It's very dangerous on the N24.

No....
You said " not as dangerous as you describe " when i mentioned it ??

road_high

greenspurs wrote: »

No....
You said " not as dangerous as you describe " when i mentioned it ??

I was referring to the motorway...

greenspurs

road_high wrote: »

I was referring to the motorway...

Its a DUAL CARRIAGEWAY in places (2-1 system) ..... N24 is not a motorway.

So the Trucks driving alongside each other isnt dangerous?
The N24 isnt dangerous ?

greenspurs

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/259100/contract-awarded-for-safety-works-on-fatal-piltown-bypass.html

Some progress being made ? Well, its a start .

JohnC.

What do they mean a right turning lane at Thatch Junction? Isn't there one there already?