Norwegian Air Discussion

1123heavy

sparrowcar wrote: »

Absolutely Ryanair will be fine, I'd be worried for Aer Lingus though, it's another selling point for Norwegian for T/A pax from the US shopping for options.

I think Aer Lingus haven't as much to worry about as many might think. They have adapted first of all to the very low TA tickets offered by norwegian (and don't forget that aer lingus will bring people to JFK and the likes with these tickets and the public will take this into account). Aside from the very low fares bit, don't forget that not everyone wants to cross the Atlantic ryanair style in a 737, many will pay to go with aer lingus and receive the full service they like to receive when travelling TA.

In Europe they seem to have developed a niche market too. I for one know many people for whom it would take some price difference for them to not go with Aer Lingus. Not because they don't like Ryanair or anything, I think many pax just find Aer Lingus an overall more relaxed experience compared to the extreme low budget carriers and there seems to be a market for those who will pay slightly more to go with them.

They've also just announced all staff are getting an 8.5% pay rise over the next couple of years, not something a troubled carrier does.

Locker10a

1123heavy wrote: »

sparrowcar wrote: »

Absolutely Ryanair will be fine, I'd be worried for Aer Lingus though, it's another selling point for Norwegian for T/A pax from the US shopping for options.

I think Aer Lingus haven't as much to worry about as many might think. They have adapted first of all to the very low TA tickets offered by norwegian (and don't forget that aer lingus will bring people to JFK and the likes with these tickets and the public will take this into account). Aside from the very low fares bit, don't forget that not everyone wants to cross the Atlantic ryanair style in a 737, many will pay to go with aer lingus and receive the full service they like to receive when travelling TA.

In Europe they seem to have developed a niche market too. I for one know many people for whom it would take some price difference for them to not go with Aer Lingus. Not because they don't like Ryanair or anything, I think many pax just find Aer Lingus an overall more relaxed experience compared to the extreme low budget carriers and there seems to be a market for those who will pay slightly more to go with them.

They've also just announced all staff are getting an 8.5% pay rise over the next couple of years, not something a troubled carrier does.

A huge portion of their market now is also connections. They operate flight to the UK, and Italy that are filled by connecting traffic. They no longer rely on just the Irish market.

Idbatterim

I assume ryanair are still working on a similar deal with norwegian?

Lapmo_Dancer

NAI reporting a $205 million loss for 2016. Ouch!

hynesie08

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

NAI reporting a $205 million loss for 2016. Ouch!

How much of that is tied to buying/leasing all the new planes?

737max

There is an element of make or break to Norwegian over the next few years but if they can show a fundamentally profitable core business once financing costs are ignored then they could benefit from their local sovereign wealth fund or others world wide.

The Arabs have been pouring a lot of wealth down sinking airlines with unsustainable business models. If Norwegian can keep filling their planes and keep their costs under control ignoring financing costs then they're the type of business that a wealth fund would be interested in.
Ifs and buts....

marno21

Pity Norwegian got into bed with Easyjet today, perhaps less likely now to see 787 flights out of Dublin. Would be a nice addition if they had teamed up with Ryanair.

Looks like Air Canada are going down the same route using 737 MAX 8s SNN-YYZ & DUB-YUL, although Air Canada will have a business class section. Perhaps we may be finally seeing a viable alternative to 757s for thin transatlantic routes.

KCAccidental

Can't see Easyjet serving Dublin anytime soon.

JCX BXC

*easyJet launches 2x daily flights to Luton*

*Ryanair launches 40x daily flights to Luton*

If Ryanair would protect anywhere against EZY, I'd imagine it'd be DUB.

john boye

I still wouldn't completely rule out Ryanair getting into bed with Norwegian on this side of the sea.

I've read a few pieces on this EZY/DY deal and it just seems to basically be Gatwick Connects? It doesn't seem to be true interlining?

Tenger

hynesie08 wrote: »

How much of that is tied to buying/leasing all the new planes?

The article posted above is an analysis of their recent results and it points that way. Lots of outgoing revenue due capital loan interest and leases. They also sold part of their shareholding in a standalone financing company to increase their income.

fr336

JCX BXC wrote: »

*easyJet launches 2x daily flights to Luton*

*Ryanair launches 40x daily flights to Luton*

If Ryanair would protect anywhere against EZY, I'd imagine it'd be DUB.

Damn that'd be an entertaining war. Not to mention customer friendly - FR would be almost paying you to fly no doubt

L1011

We saw the approach Ryanair took to the Easyjet flights that didn't even go to Dublin; and Wizz at Cork. The latter in particular turned out to be disaterous for customers in the long term despite being great short-term.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

marno21

>90% load factors on ORK-PVD according to Norwegian.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Cork-to-New-York-flights-rely-on-new-aircraft-tests-88cdf5c7-fccc-4ad7-a5c7-54ee07f0d05b-ds

jjbrien

I just flew JFK To LGW with Norwegian in premium and back LGW to JFK in economy really fab product in both classes. The cabin crew were super friendly and treated me more like their guest than a passenger. Will try the 737 service out of Dublin sometime. Came back home last week with thomas cook JFK to Manchester and was the worst flight I have ever taken. I ll go out of my way now to try fly Norwegian.

etselbbuns

Norwegian Monarch and I'm not talking about King Harald

Norwegian has approached Monarch over a deal to buy all – or part – of the business.
Monarch is said to be exploring a joint venture or a feeder deal with an outside airline. They employ around 2,750 staff and fly to more than 40 destinations. “We are having regular discussions on a number of options with potential strategic partners and we will announce any material developments, if and when they happen.”
A Norwegian spokesman said: “We don’t comment on speculation.”

jjbrien

etselbbuns wrote: »

Norwegian Monarch and I'm not talking about King Harald

Be madness for them to buy Monarch they need to sure up their balance sheet before they can buy another airline.

coffeepls

jjbrien wrote: »

Be madness for them to buy Monarch they need to sure up their balance sheet before they can buy another airline.

That’s more like what I’ve heard. Someone in aviation finance said to me that they are in a bad way. Could be gone in a year.

Captain_Crash

coffeepls wrote: »

That’s more like what I’ve heard. Someone in aviation finance said to me that they are in a bad way. Could be gone in a year.

This is what makes me laugh about the whole FR pilot debacle... The terms at FR may be s**t and I can understand pilots leaving for pastures new... but to an airline in this much financial trouble??

Given the choice, I'd stick with FR because if the balance sheets of both airlines are anything to go by! Only one of them will still be flying in 5 years!

Blut2

Captain_Crash wrote: »

This is what makes me laugh about the whole FR pilot debacle... The terms at FR may be s**t and I can understand pilots leaving for pastures new... but to an airline in this much financial trouble??

Given the choice, I'd stick with FR because if the balance sheets of both airlines are anything to go by! Only one of them will still be flying in 5 years!

If someone's young and fairly mobile it could easily be worth it even if its only short/medium term.

Head over to Norwegian for far better employment conditions for a year or two - they'll likely last that long. Then after that you're a bit more experienced and more likely to get a legacy airline, or head Eastwards to the ME3 / China if needed, or worst-case scenario just come back to Ryanair.

TimHorton

Blut2 wrote: »

If someone's young and fairly mobile it could easily be worth it even if its only short/medium term.

Head over to Norwegian for far better employment conditions for a year or two - they'll likely last that long. Then after that you're a bit more experienced and more likely to get a legacy airline, or head Eastwards to the ME3 / China if needed, or worst-case scenario just come back to Ryanair.

If they were in so much financial trouble how do you explain how they can finance and accept delivery of new planes??? Surely if they were insolvent leasing companies etc would pull the plug.

Captain_Crash

TimHorton wrote: »

If they were in so much financial trouble how do you explain how they can finance and accept delivery of new planes??? Surely if they were insolvent leasing companies etc would pull the plug.

Have you not seen their most recent financials?

https://www.reuters.com/article/norweg-air-shut-results/update-3-norwegian-air-second-quarter-earnings-slump-hits-shares-idUSL8N1K40HZ

https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/financials?s=NAS:OSL

https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/documents/annual-report/nas_annualreport_2016.pdf

jjbrien

However this was in the news today surprised nobody here picked it up

http://www.cityam.com/272632/norwegian-shares-fly-after-airline-gets-green-light-us

thelikelylad

Currently in PVD. Flight to ORK tonight cancelled due to 'lack of cockpit crew'. They're putting us on the BFS flight now and bussing us down to ORK. 😞

JCX BXC

thelikelylad wrote: »

Currently in PVD. Flight to ORK tonight cancelled due to 'lack of cockpit crew'. They're putting us on the BFS flight now and bussing us down to ORK. 😞

Seems that not enough ex ryanair pilots have joined them.

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

Seems that not enough ex ryanair pilots have joined them.

Or else there's 1 planes worth of passengers between the two routes and they don't want to be flying two half empty planes across the Atlantic.

JCX BXC

marno21 wrote: »

Or else there's 1 planes worth of passengers between the two routes and they don't want to be flying two half empty planes across the Atlantic.

I don't know, but I doubt it. If it's occuring now, what hope do these flights have for November or February?
Would the EU261 compensation not drive them out of doing this?

Also, the outbound from PVD-SNN was cancelled too (aircraft tech in Cork), would there not be an excessive amount of PAX inconvenienced? Unless of course all aircraft are running on loads of less than 50%, which again would be very poor for this time of year.

J.pilkington

In their most recent set of financials they mentioned they need an average of 25 extra pilots for each 787 they add, a staggering number. This as much as the new aircraft must be really hitting their bank account especially if they paying a premium to attract new pilots.

From a pilots perspective they must be a more attractive venture than Ryanair, after all who invests all the time and €s to become a pilot only to be happy to be based insomewhere like East Midlands flying x return legs each day with career prospects being limited to 737s. That’s not the dream

TimHorton wrote: »

If they were in so much financial trouble how do you explain how they can finance and accept delivery of new planes??? Surely if they were insolvent leasing companies etc would pull the plug.

Alitalia lease all their plans and despite years of financial questions and write offs they have never been short of lessors willing to lease them planes. Same story with other airlines all over the world. The leasing companies are probably charging a premium to these companies and afterall there is no easier asset to seize and re-lease to another customer than a jet.

thelikelylad

JCX BXC wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

Or else there's 1 planes worth of passengers between the two routes and they don't want to be flying two half empty planes across the Atlantic.

I don't know, but I doubt it. If it's occuring now, what hope do these flights have for November or February?
Would the EU261 compensation not drive them out of doing this?

Also, the outbound from PVD-SNN was cancelled too (aircraft tech in Cork), would there not be an excessive amount of PAX inconvenienced? Unless of course all aircraft are running on loads of less than 50%, which again would be very poor for this time of year.

The flight over was about 70% full at a guess. It was a grand flight too, the MAX is a nice bus, no complaints at all.

I've different feelings now at this moment in time naturally. Lots of people annoyed here at the gate in PVD too. Met a guy that had a flight to Shannon cancelled yesterday and now his replacement flight to Cork is cancelled. To make matters worse he was only flying over for 3 days anyway or something for business in Galway. Flight from Edinburgh cancelled too.