Norwegian Air Discussion

Idbatterim

Can the 737's get as far as Chicago? I agree about no other airports other than dub being able to sustain mid or wide body aircraft

L1011

Idbatterim wrote: »

Can the 737's get as far as Chicago? I agree about no other airports other than dub being able to sustain mid or wide body aircraft

737max should be able to. A321LR would be consistently; if they were willing to break the fleet consistency.

737max

I really look forward to seeing how this works out.

Will people learn to live with 10kg carry-on. I can but I pack smart.
Will enough people cheerfully endure a 737 on long trip like that.
Will immigration checks be so bad. I'd guess a one third to two third split between US nationals and E.U. nationals most of the time maybe reaching 50/50 during summer so 90 to 140 people queued up while their passport is examined at a sub-atomic level.
Do US holidaymakers really have enough time to be visiting Europe with a fairly poor two weeks holidays allowance being the norm.

How will Ryanair react; M O'L is loathe to give anyone the steam off his urine much less make anyone else wealthy so he will not like channeling passengers to them.
They have loads of options on 737Max and there is a 737Max10 now that is getting close to the capacity needed to make it worthwhile.
They won't be buying the proper transatlantic planes anytime soon until the middle eastern carriers have stopped buying planes at any price.
They won't buy out Norwegian/share swap as that would be reducing Ryanair shareholder value for not enough in return.

Norwegian have bent over backwards to get their licence but I think that Ryanair would be seen as the unacceptable face of aviation capitalism and could be potentially locked out.

Interesting times.

Mebuntu

Well, I'll try to answer.

Will people learn to live with 10kg carry-on. I can but I pack smart.

Yes, if they want lower fares.

Will enough people cheerfully endure a 737 on long trip like that.

Yes, if they want lower fares.

Will immigration checks be so bad…90 to 140 people queued up while their passport is examined at a sub-atomic level.

For each flight at DUB pre-clearance with EI/DL etc there will be 200-300 people queued up while their passport is examined at a sub-atomic level

Do US holidaymakers really have enough time to be visiting Europe with a fairly poor two weeks holidays allowance being the norm.

Cheaper fares would likely be an incentive to do so as current fares are way too prohibitive.

Norwegian have bent over backwards to get their licence but I think that Ryanair would be seen as the unacceptable face of aviation capitalism and could be potentially locked out.

Locked out by who? America thrives on capitalism and Ryanair kept Boeing alive after 9/11 and still buys only Boeing aircraft.

Interesting times.

We can all agree with that .

Storm 10

Very interesting read here when you add up all the additional costs of flights with Norwegian to the States

https://buzz.ie/the-big-problem-with-norwegian-airlines-super-cheap-us-flights/

golfball37

737max wrote: »

I really look forward to seeing how this works out.

Will people learn to live with 10kg carry-on. I can but I pack smart.
Will enough people cheerfully endure a 737 on long trip like that.
Will immigration checks be so bad. I'd guess a one third to two third split between US nationals and E.U. nationals most of the time maybe reaching 50/50 during summer so 90 to 140 people queued up while their passport is examined at a sub-atomic level.
Do US holidaymakers really have enough time to be visiting Europe with a fairly poor two weeks holidays allowance being the norm.

How will Ryanair react; M O'L is loathe to give anyone the steam off his urine much less make anyone else wealthy so he will not like channeling passengers to them.
They have loads of options on 737Max and there is a 737Max10 now that is getting close to the capacity needed to make it worthwhile.
They won't be buying the proper transatlantic planes anytime soon until the middle eastern carriers have stopped buying planes at any price.
They won't buy out Norwegian/share swap as that would be reducing Ryanair shareholder value for not enough in return.

Norwegian have bent over backwards to get their licence but I think that Ryanair would be seen as the unacceptable face of aviation capitalism and could be potentially locked out.

Interesting times.

Ryanair licking their lips as they'll act as the carrier for many passengers looking to get these Transatlantic Airports throughout Europe. All they need is a transfer deal with Norgwegian and they'll cream it.

737max

golfball37 wrote: »

Ryanair licking their lips as they'll act as the carrier for many passengers looking to get these Transatlantic Airports throughout Europe. All they need is a transfer deal with Norgwegian and they'll cream it.

Why have a slice when you can have the whole pie?

Jawgap

Storm 10 wrote: »

Very interesting read here when you add up all the additional costs of flights with Norwegian to the States

https://buzz.ie/the-big-problem-with-norwegian-airlines-super-cheap-us-flights/

Some lack of imagination there - it's a $70 round-trip on Amtrak from Providence to Penn Station, NY - journey time is about 3 to 3.5 hrs depending on the service and time of day.

Jawgap

737max wrote: »

Why have a slice when you can have the whole pie?

....that would be my feeling - if RYR see that Norwegian are doing well on the routes they'll pile in with their own services and aggressively price them out of it - which should be good for a few months anyway;)

LXFlyer

Storm 10 wrote: »

Very interesting read here when you add up all the additional costs of flights with Norwegian to the States

https://buzz.ie/the-big-problem-with-norwegian-airlines-super-cheap-us-flights/

It all depends upon:

1) Where people are actually going to
2) How they value their time
3) Whether they're happy travelling light

These flights will appeal to certain people, but if you're going to NYC for example, people do need to check out the onward travel options before they book - the flights arrive at Stewart in the evening around 19:00 which does mean a late arrival for anyone going to NYC (we are talking probably near to 22:00 local - that's 03:00 Irish time!).

Not sure why they talk about the need for a local hotel for the return trips to Ireland? The flights leave in the evening so that makes no sense. It is fair to mention though that the train link is only once an hour from Beacon to NYC.

Providence on the other hand will have a reasonably large local catchment which will have more appeal I would imagine.

JCX BXC

There is talk about people learning to live with 10kg allowances etc, my point earlier was that these flights in many cases are more expensive than their full service competitors. I don't understand how the fares have just jumped so much.

bk

L1011 wrote: »

737max should be able to. A321LR would be consistently; if they were willing to break the fleet consistency.

They have 30 on order, so hopefully they could open up even more destinations in the US.

lxflyer wrote: »

These flights will appeal to certain people, but if you're going to NYC for example, people do need to check out the onward travel options before they book - the flights arrive at Stewart in the evening around 19:00 which does mean a late arrival for anyone going to NYC (we are talking probably near to 22:00 local - that's 03:00 Irish time!).

Norwegian say they are working with Stewart and bus companies to put a bus service direct to Manhattan in place. Makes sense, this is the US after all, bus companies love new business like this.

JCX BXC wrote: »

There is talk about people learning to live with 10kg allowances etc, my point earlier was that these flights in many cases are more expensive than their full service competitors. I don't understand how the fares have just jumped so much.

Initially flights were cheap, loads of people jumped on for a bargain, some people have saved €700 on this thread! Those cheap tickets sell out, prices go up, time will pass, those more expensive tickets probably won't sell much and the prices will drop again (though not down to the headline €65) a few weeks before the departure date.

Dynamic pricing, all airlines do it.

Locker10a

JCX BXC wrote: »

There is talk about people learning to live with 10kg allowances etc, my point earlier was that these flights in many cases are more expensive than their full service competitors. I don't understand how the fares have just jumped so much.

It always amuses me how people think LCC are so great, you can travel for cheap just bring less stuff etc. And to an extent that's true, but people seem to sometimes things LCC are providing some sort of public service to people who want to travel cheap, when the reality is LCC have the highest profits, there are in business for one thing, Profit!! Airlines today have the same costs as they did 50 years ago, and the make the same profit they've almost always made, they just do it in a different way, there are many ways to skin a cat, LCC just sell you a way that's more appealing to your wallet

Mebuntu

Very interesting read here when you add up all the additional costs of flights with Norwegian to the States

https://buzz.ie/the-big-problem-with-norwegian-airlines-super-cheap-us-flights/

That article could have been written by anyone from Aer Lingus, Delta, AA etc. Most people who fly low cost are very savvy, weigh up all the details and choose.

If you're a dyed-in-the-wool Aer Lingus fan you won't want to go with anyone else anyway and are prepared to pay the higher fares but these flights are for the thousands of other people who don't care what livery is on the outside of the aircraft and can manage the economics of trips as they see fit to keep the overall cost down. If it's cheaper they will fly.

elastico

Stewart, about 50 miles from Manhattan and less than an hour from northern New Jersey, served more than 275,000 passengers in 2016, but projections for 2017 are about 400,000 passengers with as many as 700,000 in 2018. The airport also will increase connectivity to Manhattan with additional buses offering direct service from the airport to the Port Authority Bus Terminal for just $18 each way, Cuomo said. 

Source: New York's Stewart International Airport to Start Offering Transatlantic Flights in June | NBC New York http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Stewart-International-Airport-New-York-Norwegian-Transatlantic-Flights-Ireland-Scotland--414604033.html#ixzz4Zbt6ESkU
Follow us: @nbcnewyork on Twitter | NBCNewYork on Facebook

bk

Locker10a wrote: »

It always amuses me how people think LCC are so great, you can travel for cheap just bring less stuff etc. And to an extent that's true, but people seem to sometimes things LCC are providing some sort of public service to people who want to travel cheap, when the reality is LCC have the highest profits, there are in business for one thing, Profit!! Airlines today have the same costs as they did 50 years ago, and the make the same profit they've almost always made, they just do it in a different way, there are many ways to skin a cat, LCC just sell you a way that's more appealing to your wallet

Double huh!

Of course people flying LCC's know very well that the only reason the companies do it is because it is very profitable to do so and most people are perfectly fine with that.

Ordinary people benefit from lower fares and the LCC's make a profit. Capitalism at it's best.

As for the second huh, how the hell do you think airline costs are the same as 50 years ago! LCC's couldn't exist if they were.

- Aircraft today are WAY more fuel efficient, so a lot of cost saved on fuel expense.
- LCC's tend to use just one aircraft type or a small number and keep the fleets young to keep maintenance costs down.
- Contract rates for crew are a lot less generous today.

The costs to airlines today are vastly less then they were 50 years ago.

elastico

Locker10a wrote: »

when the reality is LCC have the highest profits, there are in business for one thing, Profit!!

Same as all commercial airlines.

Locker10a wrote: »

Airlines today have the same costs as they did 50 years ago

The industry is totally different to 50 years ago. Back then flying was for the elite, with a much smaller number of planes in the air.

The business model is fundamentally different today.

Idbatterim

Very interesting read here when you add up all the additional costs of flights with Norwegian to the States

https://buzz.ie/the-big-problem-with...ap-us-flights/

Obviously if you’re paying €69 for a Shannon/New York trip instead of the average of €300-€400, you’re making a whopper saving of at least €230.

But is it worth the mammoth, almost impossible journey from Stewart airport to New York city? Does Norwegian Airlines think you’ll be wanting to stay in Newburgh, the area where Stewart Airport is based?

Laughable! I just saw a link saying a bus will take you to central NY for 18 dollars each way. "Mammoth, impossible task"! this isnt the bloody lord of the rings!

We calculated that you’re saving €230 with Norwegian Airlines. Let’s bear in mind that International Long Haul Low Fare flights charge €32.50 per person, each way, for your in-flight meal.

E32.50 for the s**te that you are served up? no thanks, Ill eat in dublin airport and take something with me.

Also you have 10k free luggage, not everyone needs more. If you do and are travelling with more people, just pay for one checked in bag if needs be.

In terms of the IFE, once the seats have usb charge points, so what? much better quality and screen on tablet or laptop, you can also watch netflix now, pre loaded without internet...

these flights will suit a lot of people...

JCX BXC

They'll only suit people at the cheapest fares, have a look at any rate from July-September, would they suit you?

bk

JCX BXC wrote: »

They'll only suit people at the cheapest fares, have a look at any rate from July-September, would they suit you?

Shrug, if they don't sell then they will drop the price and the price will suit.

There were loads of €65 and €109 flights yesterday, obviously loads of people took advantage of them and prices have gone up. But if they don't sell at these high prices they will of course drop again, just as they do for any LCC airlines dynamic pricing system.

Bob24

JCX BXC wrote: »

They'll only suit people at the cheapest fares, have a look at any rate from July-September, would they suit you?

Yes - I will probably have to travel to the US in August, quickly went to check it out when I saw the announcement this morning but I was quite disappointed. I didn't expect their advertised prices to be available for all flights, but the fare they give me (500 return Dublin to NY) is nowhere near what they promise in their promotional campaign. Aer Lignus is only marginally more expensive for the same days (550) and I don't think the small saving is worth the drawbacks of Norwegian.

bk

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes - I will probably have to trip to the US in August, quickly went check it out when I so the announcement but I was quite disappointed. I didn't expect their advertised prices to be available for all flights, but the price they give me (500 return Dublin to NY) is nowhere near what they promise in their promotion campaign. Aer Lignus is only marginally more expensive for the same days (550) and I don't think the small saving is worth the drawbacks of Norwegian.

Sounds like you were a day too late, there were plenty of flights available for €200 return yesterday around August.

Of course you are right, for just €50 difference it wouldn't be worth it. But for those people who booked yesterday, it was a great deal.

jive

It's way cheaper but you have a longer travel time on the other side. That's really all it boils down to. Aer Lingus, BA, AA etc. are just glorified LCCs these days... except they're not as low cost.

cc

I think people need to remember this can open up transatlantic to people who thought it was out of their reach because of cost. It's not just about those who regularly travel with Aer lingus T/A direct or through a hub with another airline.

The fares won't always be low, but i'm sure like Ryanair there will be regular discounting.

Bob24

bk wrote: »

Sounds like you were a day too late, there were plenty of flights available for €200 return yesterday around August.

Of course you are right, for just €50 difference it wouldn't be worth it. But for those people who booked yesterday, it was a great deal.

Yep it seems so!

200 return would have worked for me indeed. They probably wanted to get free publicity at launch and won't return to those prices, but I've set an alert on SkyScanner just in case.

amcalester

bk wrote: »

Sounds like you were a day too late, there were plenty of flights available for €200 return yesterday around August.

Of course you are right, for just €50 difference it wouldn't be worth it. But for those people who booked yesterday, it was a great deal.

I got return flights for 2 for €470 yesterday, I booked a seat with extra leg room and 1 checked bag each way, the extras made up €190 so I could have paid €280.

Similar flights with IE into JFK were going for €955 when I checked skyscanner yesterday.

With the money saved my 4 day trip to NYC has now become an 8 day trip with 7 nights in NYC and 1 in Newburgh.

Pretty pleased with that.

JCX BXC

cc wrote: »

I think people need to remember this can open up transatlantic to people who thought it was out of their reach because of cost. It's not just about those who regularly travel with Aer lingus T/A direct or through a hub with another airline.

Only people who were lucky enough to book yesterday, for people who have never flown TA they won't be booking flights spontaneously! Completely disagree with your point, that will only ever be valid when the fares are low for extended periods of time, which they seem not to be.

The points being made here are valid in my opinion, there is now denying that €140 return is good no matter what way you look at it, but there is also no denying that when the vast majority of fares are more expensive than EI/AA/UA/DL, it's not exactly accessible for people, nor does it make sense for people.

Those fares may come down again, but they'll hardly come down that much?

jive

JCX BXC wrote: »

Those fares may come down again, but they'll hardly come down that much?

I don't see why they wouldn't. I'm sure they'll do flash sales etc. in future.

737max

What do we think the price will begin to settle at mid week.
Ryanair flights to UK mid week settle around 19.99 each way.
Will these flights settle down to 120 to 130 each way with no extras?
I don't see them attracting many "business" flyers irrespective of whether the class exists or not in the cabin who aren't so price sensitive and are willing to cross-subsidize the backpacker.

bk

JCX BXC wrote: »

Those fares may come down again, but they'll hardly come down that much?

Sure, they probably won't come down to €65 again, but they will come down to whatever level is required for people to consider them worth it versus a superior Aer Lingus experience.

For instance maybe 300 versus 550?

Honestly non of this is surprising for anyone use to flying Ryanair, Easyjet, etc.
Prices bounce up and down and people watch out and pounce when the price is cheap.

JCX BXC wrote: »

Only people who were lucky enough to book yesterday, for people who have never flown TA they won't be booking flights spontaneously!

I have to disagree strongly. There are plenty of people who are use to keeping an eye out on Ryanair, etc. and jumping on bargains to fly to interesting places around Europe.

This is how one year I flew 14 times to different places around Europe and spent no more then €1000.

Lots of people like me have been waiting for the same to happen with TA flights to similarly explore the US. That is why the cheap flights were snapped up so quickly yesterday.

The same people who on the Bargain Alerts forum have picked up bargain cheap flights to Asia etc. over the last year.

There isn't anything particularly different about flying TA, then there is compared to flying around Europe or heading further afield to Asia.