How come Tinder is so difficult?

Goya

zulutango wrote: »

The women here say that make-up is to make them look nicer but it's not because they're insecure about their looks. It's a remarkable twist of logic.

Some have claimed it's a form of artistic expression, which is probably true for some, but I doubt it's true for the majority.

It's almost as if stubbornness is taking over, and getting in the way of honest discussion. Despite saying it's about insecurity in a roundabout way, they can't actually admit that it's about insecurity. Because then they'd be (a) admitting to insecurity when obviously they are perfect and (b) wrong.

The stubbornness to me is the insistence of "Women wear make-up because they're insecure about their looks" instead of accepting it depends on how much make-up they wear and that it can be as simple as just wanting to look nice for an event/to attract the opposite sex. The thing that men do too!

If mere grooming means insecurity, then I assume you think the only way a person is truly secure is if they go out wearing comfy clothes for lounging around in and make absolutely no effort with their appearance?

The Talking Bread

Foxtrol wrote: »

Of course shortening paragraphs of responses to three words would over simplify it and I’m glad the poster is accepting the advice as I agree with it.

What I’m pointing out is the hypocrisy of saying this is good advice for a shorter guy but then claiming there’s no issue with someone burying their insecurity under a mountain of foundation. One is actually resolving an issue while the other is just pushing it down.

How is building your self esteem by wearing makeup "pushing down" a problem. At the end of the day we are here to enjoy life and you can't do that without self esteem.
It isn't as if the world is going to run out of skin concealer in the next few years and these young women are going to have to go cold turkey and suffer the consequences of their decision to wear makeup in the first place whilst those who go au natural live in this happy bubble for ever.

Same with shaving. Being clean shaven isn't natural in itself. Whilst it is done for health (cleanliness) reasons, it is done to look good, respectable and attractive also.

Foxtrol

Amirah Alive Sediment wrote: »

When you're buying clothes, is it literally the first thing you see, or do you make some sort of choice based on the appearance of the clothes? Getting a haircut, do you give any instructions or not even look at it? I'd say liking to wear a bit of makeup is insecure to the same extent.

I’m sorry wearing clothes and cutting your hair is not the same as making your face look like another person.

The hostility that comes up in the make up conversation, and the peculiar insistence that in relation to make up making a moderate effort to improve your appearance as you see it means you're insecure... I can see how that leads to defensiveness.

Of course it can be a sign of insecurity. Of course it can be taken to damaging extremes. But that's not true in the majority of cases. It's something people do because they enjoy or because like most adults who leave the house they try and look their best. If you want to shoehorn the word insecurity into that it's up to you.

Can you please explain how it is not linked to insecurity?

Triceratops Ballet

Foxtrol wrote: »

Then why cant we have an honest open discussion about makeup like we can about height? Once it is mentioned people come out of the woodwork in defense of the right to wear makeup.

On famous people you could say the exact same about most male actors who are made to appear taller in movies.

We're having one, but some posters aren't interested in acknowledging the pov of others and are insisting that their opinion on the matter is fact.

zulutango

Flimpson wrote: »

The stubbornness to me is the insistence of "Women wear make-up because they're insecure about their looks" instead of accepting it depends on how much make-up they wear and that it can be as simple as just wanting to look nice for an event/to attract the opposite sex. The thing that men do too!

If mere grooming means insecurity, then I assume you think the only way a person is truly secure is if they go out wearing comfy clothes for lounging around in and make absolutely no effort with their appearance?

I'm not arguing men don't have insecurities. They do, of course. But that's beside the point.

What's at issue here is whether women wear make-up because they are insecure about their looks, and you all seem to be admitting it, but not admitting it at the same time. It's farcical at this stage.

You know, it's ok to have insecurities. You're not perfect. Nobody is.

Triceratops Ballet

Foxtrol wrote: »

I’m sorry wearing clothes and cutting your hair is not the same as making your face look like another person.



Can you please explain how it is not linked to insecurity?

because makeup is a fashion item!!! is wearing fashionable clothes also a sign of insecurity ?

The Talking Bread

zulutango wrote: »

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's about insecurity. You seem to agree.

Twist my words however you want, anyone who properly wants to read my post will understand the point I am making.

Again you put forward your opinion that every woman does it out of complete insecurity and that is the only reason they buy their mascarra. You are entirely wrong with that. But it's your opinion. If you are a girl and have those insecurities, that is your personal mindset.
If you are a guy and reading into the mindset of every woman, good luck to you!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

And I don't know about everyone else here but I've been having conversations about looks and insecurity with other women since I was like fourteen. If I had a euro for every time I've said or been told "shut up and stop complaining you daft bitch you look great" I'd be rich.

Goya

Stealthfins wrote: »

This is an Irish attitude,you won't see it anywhere else.

Go to the UK and you'll see female doctors vet's and barristers married and going out with barmen, forestry workers, waiters, police men,, farm hands,gardeners...etc

These women are successful and don't have the measure their men's merit on the man's success....

If only these Tinder brats would grow up.

This is an Irish attitude you won't see anywhere else... because you don't see it in the UK? (sure you don't).

Anyway, back to reality - you do of course see it outside Ireland (the US for example) and not just from women.

The Talking Bread

zulutango wrote: »

I'm not arguing men don't have insecurities. They do, of course. But that's beside the point.

What's at issue here is whether women wear make-up because they are insecure about their looks, and you all seem to be admitting it, but not admitting it at the same time. It's farcical at this stage.

You know, it's ok to have insecurities. You're not perfect. Nobody is.

Right I admit it. You are completely right! No need to be insecure and seek reassurance about your opinions!

Foxtrol

The Talking Bread wrote: »

How is building your self esteem by wearing makeup "pushing down" a problem. At the end of the day we are here to enjoy life and you can't do that without self esteem.
It isn't as if the world is going to run out of skin concealer in the next few years and these young women are going to have to go cold turkey and suffer the consequences of their decision to wear makeup in the first place whilst those who go au natural live in this happy bubble for ever.

Same with shaving. Being clean shaven isn't natural in itself. Whilst it is done for health (cleanliness) reasons, it is done to look good, respectable and attractive also.

Because it’s a crutch, you’re not actually fixing your self esteem issues.

It’s like saying telling a guy with the issue about his height that you know these shoes that can give him an extra three inches in height. Is that solving his problem or will he feel just as bad in a situation where he cant wear those shoes?

zulutango

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Twist my words however you want, anyone who properly wants to read my post will understand the point I am making.

Again you put forward your opinion that every woman does it out of complete insecurity and that is the only reason they buy their mascarra. You are entirely wrong with that. But it's your opinion. If you are a girl and have those insecurities, that is your personal mindset.
If you are a guy and reading into the mindset of every woman, good luck to you!

I didn't say that anywhere. You seem to be misinterpreting me.

The Talking Bread

Foxtrol wrote: »

Then why cant we have an honest open discussion about makeup like we can about height? Once it is mentioned people come out of the woodwork in defense of the right to wear makeup.

On famous people you could say the exact same about most male actors who are made to appear taller in movies.

There is plenty of talk about the reasons people wear makeup. In fact you are involved in one now!

Goya

zulutango wrote: »

I'm not arguing men don't have insecurities. They do, of course. But that's beside the point.

What's at issue here is whether women wear make-up because they are insecure about their looks, and you all seem to be admitting it, but not admitting it at the same time. It's farcical at this stage.

You know, it's ok to have insecurities. You're not perfect. Nobody is.

Yeah of course most people have insecurities. Someone with none would probably be obnoxious - but why just the focus on make-up? Are you saying simply dressing up to look nice on a night out = a sign of insecurity and that it would be healthier to make no effort?

Triceratops Ballet

zulutango wrote: »

I didn't say that anywhere. You seem to be misinterpreting me.

You didn't explicitly however you made several posts scoffing at the idea that women wear make up as a form of expression

Foxtrol

dottie_lottie wrote: »

We're having one, but some posters aren't interested in acknowledging the pov of others and are insisting that their opinion on the matter is fact.

Well it's not when a side has completely hypocritical opinions when it comes to two issues of insecurity and cannot explain why.

Triceratops Ballet

Foxtrol wrote: »

Well it's not when a side has completely hypocritical opinions when it comes to two issues of insecurity and cannot explain why.

hypocritical how?

Foxtrol

dottie_lottie wrote: »

because makeup is a fashion item!!! is wearing fashionable clothes also a sign of insecurity ?

If you cant go out the front door without wearing clothes that are not high end fashion then yes, it is a sign of insecurity.

zulutango

Flimpson wrote: »

Yeah of course most people have insecurities. Someone with none would probably be obnoxious - but why just the focus on make-up? Are you saying simply dressing up to look nice on a night out = a sign of insecurity and that it would be healthier to make no effort?

I'm just responding to those who have disavowed the notion that wearing make-up and insecurity are linked. They clearly are. Now, it doesn't apply to the women here, because they wear make-up as a form of artistic expression, which is a different thing altogether and more linked to style/fashion/grooming.

The Talking Bread

Foxtrol wrote: »

Well it's not when a side has completely hypocritical opinions when it comes to two issues of insecurity and cannot explain why.

At least you recognise this mindframe you have. Progress on your behalf.

zulutango

dottie_lottie wrote: »

You didn't explicitly however you made several posts scoffing at the idea that women wear make up as a form of expression

Actually, I didn't. I agreed make-up can be used a form of artistic expression.

The Talking Bread

zulutango wrote: »

Actually, I didn't. I agreed make-up can be used a form of artistic expression.

Again, progress. And noone disagreed with you that some women are insecure about ageing skin.
So what is the debate?

Surreptitious

Anyways I got no dates on Tinder, only people looking for sex so will delete it. Not like I expected anything from it either way. I can see how men would struggle on it for sure.

The Talking Bread

zulutango wrote: »

I'm just responding to those who have disavowed the notion that wearing make-up and insecurity are linked. They clearly are. Now, it doesn't apply to the women here, because they wear make-up as a form of artistic expression, which is a different thing altogether and more linked to style/fashion/grooming.

Quote some posts here which wholly disagree that some women wear makeup out of insecurity and then elaborate on that. This isn't a forum of debate if noone is disagreeing with this point.

zulutango

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Quote some posts here which wholly disagree that some women wear makeup out of insecurity and then elaborate on that. This isn't a forum of debate if noone is disagreeing with this point.

What are you disagreeing with so?

Goya

Foxtrol wrote: »

I understand saying not to let height define you but many women let makeup define them and I have found from having this conversation before that there is a deafening silence when it comes to making similar harsh but fair comments towards them.

I know 4 women who I have been close to who refuse to be seen without makeup and others who I know who complain about not getting enough sleep yet feel like they have to get up 1.5 hours before they leave to get themselves ready for work.

I just don’t see the same level of ‘get over it’ when it comes to using makeup as a crutch, it seems like it’s a taboo subject amongst women to speak against.

Just seeing this now as tis a very busy thread!

Foxtrol, the above use of make-up definitely seems to be borne out of insecurity and people who insist it isn't, seem deluded.

In my case though, I wear minimal eye make-up and lip-liner, and no foundation. And that's it. And only to events, the way everyone gets groomed for events. Not to work, not to the shops, not out walking/running. So I do object to being told that I and others wear make-up purely due to being insecure about my looks, because my relationship with make-up is nothing like that of the women you know.

Now if I was told I can't make eye contact with people when I walk into a room because of insecurity/shyness, then I'd totally agree. I have insecurities like anyone but I don't get the zoning in on make-up for any woman - it depends! Main factors are - amount worn, reasons for wearing it, and how frequently it's worn.

mzungu

Foxtrol wrote: »

If you cant go out the front door without wearing clothes that are not high end fashion then yes, it is a sign of insecurity.

Well, I'd argue that's more a sign of consumerism, rather than anything to do with insecurity.

zulutango

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Again, progress. And noone disagreed with you that some women are insecure about ageing skin.
So what is the debate?

Come off it! They all disagreed back when the point was made. :pac:

But now it seems you all agree.

Now, what proportion of women do you think wear make-up as a form of artistic expression and what proportion wear it out of insecurity?

Olishi4

Amirah Alive Sediment wrote: »

The hostility that comes up in the make up conversation, and the peculiar insistence that in relation to make up making a moderate effort to improve your appearance as you see it means you're insecure... I can see how that leads to defensiveness.

Of course it can be a sign of insecurity. Of course it can be taken to damaging extremes. But that's not true in the majority of cases. It's something people do because they enjoy or because like most adults who leave the house they try and look their best. If you want to shoehorn the word insecurity into that it's up to you.

I like wearing makeup. My mam only wore makeup when she was going somewhere special but I'd sit and watch her and talk to her while she got ready. Also remember when I was about 5 or 6 getting my hands on some of her nail varnish and destroying the place.

I don't wear that much. I dont know if its insecurity but more just how I like to present myself when I'm out.

I started experimenting with makeup when I was about 14 and the reactions of other people where funny. My mams friends were like "awh she's getting so grown up", my own peers were like "why?", a few lads my own age made out like I was vain, my mam and dad thought it was funny, my older brother didn't even notice but a few of his pals did and all that over a bit of mascara :pac: I just thought it looked nice!

zulutango

Olishi4 wrote: »

I just thought it looked nice!

Did you not think you looked nice without it?

Olishi4

zulutango wrote: »

Did you not think you looked nice without it?

Sure but I was just trying out a different look. There were many lads at the same time who had that curtain hairstyle dripping with hair gel.

The Talking Bread

zulutango wrote: »

What are you disagreeing with so?

I am disagreeing with what you are insinuating by * these posts. You are backtracking somewhat but your posts indicate here that there are posters here who are saying women wear make up wholly for artistic expression. Now if you aren't saying that or mean different, perhaps word your posts differently as we can only go by what you are posting.

*

zulutango wrote: »

The women here say that make-up is to make them look nicer but it's not because they're insecure about their looks. It's a remarkable twist of logic.

Some have claimed it's a form of artistic expression, which is probably true for some, but I doubt it's true for the majority.

It's almost as if stubbornness is taking over, and getting in the way of honest discussion. Despite saying it's about insecurity in a roundabout way, they can't actually admit that it's about insecurity. Because then they'd be (a) admitting to insecurity when obviously they are perfect and (b) wrong.

zulutango wrote: »

So, you're saying it is linked to insecurity about their looks so? Finally ..

zulutango wrote: »

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's about insecurity. You seem to agree.

zulutango wrote: »

I'm not arguing men don't have insecurities. They do, of course. But that's beside the point.

What's at issue here is whether women wear make-up because they are insecure about their looks, and you all seem to be admitting it, but not admitting it at the same time. It's farcical at this stage.

You know, it's ok to have insecurities. You're not perfect. Nobody is.

zulutango wrote: »

I'm just responding to those who have disavowed the notion that wearing make-up and insecurity are linked. .

zulutango wrote: »

Come off it! They all disagreed back when the point was made. :pac:

But now it seems you all agree.

Now, what proportion of women do you think wear make-up as a form of artistic expression and what proportion wear it out of insecurity?

Foxtrol

dottie_lottie wrote: »

hypocritical how?

Because posters are happy to give advice to a guy who feels pressure over his height to move past it while twist themselves in knots not to make similar comments when it comes to discussing women who have insecurities about makeup.

The Talking Bread

Foxtrol wrote: »

Because posters are happy to give advice to a guy who feels pressure over his height to move past it while twist themselves in knots not to make similar comments when it comes to discussing women who have insecurities about makeup.

How would you advise him? Noone told him simply to get over it. They advised him why and what ways he should approach the mental predicament he is in.
Avoid the question if you wish.

zulutango

The very first response was when somebody said there was a thousand reasons why people wear make up. I asked to list some. Somebody else said artistic expression. I said fine, but really is it mostly about artistic expression? Pretty much everybody disagreed that it was about insecurity. Now you're saying that it is to some extent.

Triceratops Ballet

Foxtrol wrote: »

Because posters are happy to give advice to a guy who feels pressure over his height to move past it while twist themselves in knots not to make similar comments when it comes to discussing women who have insecurities about makeup.

I'll quote electro bitch for you then...

Amirah Alive Sediment wrote: »

And I don't know about everyone else here but I've been having conversations about looks and insecurity with other women since I was like fourteen. If I had a euro for every time I've said or been told "shut up and stop complaining you daft bitch you look great" I'd be rich.

I know women who are the kind never to be seen without makeup, and of course i've told them(albeit in different words) "to get over it" "noone is actually looking at you" "noone cares what you look like" "you'll ruin your skin with all that" "it's not good for your skin to workout with makeup on"

But at no point in the thread were we discussing what to say to women who wear a lot of makeup out of insecurity, nor did any women come on talking about wearing makeup out of insecurity, that's why noone has brought it up.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Foxtrol wrote: »

Because posters are happy to give advice to a guy who feels pressure over his height to move past it while twist themselves in knots not to make similar comments when it comes to discussing women who have insecurities about makeup.

But in the context of this thread those are hypothetical women and real guys. There aren't any women here saying they think how they look without makeup is crippling them romantically, what there are is posters evoking the spirit of those women in order to... I dunno, criticise the advice given? Because they have a whataboutery fetish?

And then women responding from our own perspective, which is all we can do. The explanations being given are very easy to understand.

Goya

zulutango wrote: »

The very first response was when somebody said there was a thousand reasons why people wear make up. I asked to list some. Somebody else said artistic expression. I said fine, but really is it mostly about artistic expression? Pretty much everybody disagreed that it was about insecurity. Now you're saying that it is to some extent.

Masking insecurity is definitely one of the reasons for wearing (usually a lot of) make-up.
I think people were objecting to the way you were saying earlier that wearing any bit of make-up at all, including just on a night out to dress up (the way nearly everyone dresses up on a night out) was a sign of insecurity.

The Talking Bread

zulutango wrote: »

The very first response was when somebody said there was a thousand reasons why people wear make up. I asked to list some. Somebody else said artistic expression. I said fine, but really is it mostly about artistic expression? Pretty much everybody disagreed that it was about insecurity. Now you're saying that it is to some extent.

quote the particular post and it might help to see the point you are makin (arguing about)

And yes, makeup is now a fashion accessory that almost every woman in their late teens, 20s, 30s and beyond adorn. So I a not sure how you can evaluate who doesn't or who does wear it purely out of insecurity?

Triceratops Ballet

zulutango wrote: »

The very first response was when somebody said there was a thousand reasons why people wear make up. I asked to list some. Somebody else said artistic expression. I said fine, but really is it mostly about artistic expression? Pretty much everybody disagreed that it was about insecurity. Now you're saying that it is to some extent.

Noone has denied that some women wear it out of insecurity, we said that people who say ALL women wear makeup out of insecurity are wrong, and we've offered some of the alternative reasons women wear makeup.

Foxtrol

Flimpson wrote: »

Just seeing this now as tis a very busy thread!

Foxtrol, the above use of make-up definitely seems to be borne out of insecurity and people who insist it isn't, seem deluded.

In my case though, I wear minimal eye make-up and lip-liner, and no foundation. And that's it. And only to events, the way everyone gets groomed for events. Not to work, not to the shops, not out walking/running. So I do object to being told that I and others wear make-up purely due to being insecure about my looks, because my relationship with make-up is nothing like that of the women you know.

Now if I was told I can't make eye contact with people when I walk into a room because of insecurity/shyness, then I'd totally agree. I have insecurities like anyone but I don't get the zoning in on make-up for any woman - it depends! Main factors are - amount worn, reasons for wearing it, and how frequently it's worn.

I totally agree with what you say. I don’t think I have (or didn’t mean to anyway) said that all women that wear any level of makeup are insecure but I think it is an extremely taboo subject to discuss (as we can see here).

There are different levels, yours is completely healthy while it veers to the dangerous when it comes to those who literally wont leave the house without it. The last time I (unfortunately) found myself in this discussion here a poster gave an example of a neighbor who fell and broke her hip but wouldn’t let the paramedics come in to help her until someone did her makeup. The poster stated how she had so much respect for the woman because she took such pride in her appearance when to me it was insecurity that risked her health and even her life.

I think the level of defensiveness on the subject here is clear, when we are talking about guys who are short feeling pressure you I cant recall any/many posters come in to say ‘don’t paint all short guys like that’, there was an open discussion and advice provided. However, once makeup is brought up at best posters try to make the issue of insecurity seem like it’s an issue for only a tiny percentage but mostly it is a pure defensive stone wall where even acts of not leaving the house without makeup or wearing so much makeup that they couldn’t be recognized without it are made out to be ok.

zulutango

Flimpson wrote: »

Masking insecurity is definitely one of the reasons for wearing (usually a lot of) make-up.
I think people were objecting to the way you were saying earlier that wearing any bit of make-up at all, including just on a night out to dress up (the way nearly everyone dresses up on a night out) was a sign of insecurity.

It is a sign of insecurity. I think people are jumping up on their high horse because nobody likes being told they're insecure and women certainly don't like being told they are insecure about their looks. But they've gone and admitted it now. It's not surprising that they are insecure, given all the pressures on them to look a certain way. It must be awful growing up female these days.

The Talking Bread

Foxtrol wrote: »

I totally agree with what you say. I don’t think I have (or didn’t mean to anyway) said that all women that wear any level of makeup are insecure but I think it is an extremely taboo subject to discuss (as we can see here).

There are different levels, yours is completely healthy while it veers to the dangerous when it comes to those who literally wont leave the house without it. The last time I (unfortunately) found myself in this discussion here a poster gave an example of a neighbor who fell and broke her hip but wouldn’t let the paramedics come in to help her until someone did her makeup. The poster stated how she had so much respect for the woman because she took such pride in her appearance when to me it was insecurity that risked her health and even her life.

I think the level of defensiveness on the subject here is clear, when we are talking about guys who are short feeling pressure you I cant recall any/many posters come in to say ‘don’t paint all short guys like that’, there was an open discussion and advice provided. However, once makeup is brought up at best posters try to make the issue of insecurity seem like it’s an issue for only a tiny percentage but mostly it is a pure defensive stone wall where even acts of not leaving the house without makeup or wearing so much makeup that they couldn’t be recognized without it are made out to be ok.

It is one of the most talked about subjects when it comes to women and social presentation! I am not sure you indulge in much media if you think it is a taboo subject!

Men feeling inadequate sexually about their height, now that is a taboo, or more appropriately a very small (sorry, just to lighten the mood, couldn't resist, no offence people!!) discussed subject

zulutango

dottie_lottie wrote: »

Noone has denied that some women wear it out of insecurity, we said that people who say ALL women wear makeup out of insecurity are wrong, and we've offered some of the alternative reasons women wear makeup.

Artistic expression is the one of the other reasons offered. Fine.

Looking nicer is another. That's insecurity right there.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I don't know is this a serious Venus and Mars situation or not. We all make choices about our appearance all the time, why is makeup such a special case that using it at all has to mean insecurity?

I suppose women are just more used to it? I rarely wear it but it's been in my life for 15 years, like others have said I just see it as part of an outfit, an optional but fun part.

mzungu

zulutango wrote: »

Looking nicer is another. That's insecurity right there.

How is that insecurity?

Foxtrol

The Talking Bread wrote: »

How would you advise him? Noone told him simply to get over it. They advised him why and what ways he should approach the mental predicament he is in.
Avoid the question if you wish.

You really are the pedantic police, aren't you? I’ll try to use your exact terms as much as possible so you cant avoid dealing with my actual response again.

Posters ‘advised’ the guy ‘ways he should approach the mental predicament he is in’ yet the answer to women who have a similar ‘mental predicament’ around what they deem to have a person flaw is not to ‘approach the mental predicament’ it is instead to cover it up with makeup and it’ll be fine.

That is hypocrisy, one answer is a tough one that deals with the root cause of the problem while the other is finding a crutch for the problem by avoiding causing the tough discussion that they have an insecurity that should be faced.

The Talking Bread

zulutango wrote: »

Artistic expression is the one of the other reasons offered. Fine.

Looking nicer is another. That's insecurity right there.

Not entirely, no. I will wear my new shirt out at the weekend, not my old one. I will have a shave. Doesn't mean I am in any way insecure about my old shirt or a scruffy beard look.

Just think I will look better.

Goya

Crikey the woman who broke her hip! :eek:
What that person said in relation to her just seems fairly stupid.

But Foxtrol, I don't know about other discussions but I think the only reason women got defensive about the make-up thing here was when someone said wearing make-up at all = insecurity. Yet didn't apply this to any other grooming ritual. Very sweeping statements get made regarding women wearing make-up at all - not just ludicrous amounts for ludicrous reasons at ludicrous times.

There is a weird hostility re: make-up, and dishonesty too, like "I find make-up unattractive" as if Mila Kunis and Margot Robbie don't wear it.

I think that hostility is what brings out the defensiveness.

Goya

zulutango wrote: »

Artistic expression is the one of the other reasons offered. Fine.

Looking nicer is another. That's insecurity right there.

But a man getting groomed to go out isn't = insecurity?

You haven't answered my question - is getting dressed up in any way, by either sex, for an event a sign of insecurity?