Ireland would have been a better place under British rule?

Collie D

Ok, let's reduce TD salaries to average wage. That should keep us in paint fir road markings for a few weeks.

As for tolled roads. Look up "Tory governments" and "privatisation"

AnGaelach

Johnboner wrote: »

Couldn't be much worse than it is now.

There once was a John called boner,
Who simply could not get over,
His hard on for Saxons, and lack of satisfaction,
With Ireland, so he fúcked off to Dover

Commotion Ocean

Like asking if Germany would be better off under Hitler's rule.

The_Valeyard

Strawberry cheesecake

buried

TREMENDOUS TALENT

Yourself isit

Johnboner wrote: »

Don't forget our rents which are an absolute bargain.

You should try London.

Yourself isit

Johnboner wrote: »

That would take a long time and I am not paid to do if but here are few quick ones.
Reduce the wages of all our politicians including taisoeach and president which interestingly get more than the US counterparts (Really more than the USA? Most powerful country in the world.
Make companies like eflow which operate the m50 and make a ridiculous amount of money to give a large cut to the government which will be spent on Dublin roads, cycle tracks, public transport (they make insane amount of money).

Most of these problems could be solved by having a good government that makes good decisions, unlike ours (Irish water) first thing that comes to mind. If other nations can do it that means we can do it, just takes examples from all the successful countries (Belgium, Switzerland, Sweden etc.) These nations don't have insane amount of natural resources so they don't really have an advantage over us but they are well managed and people are happy. The attitude with "oh nothing we can do let's just accept this terrible situation and be happy with it" will not get you far.

You started out wanting us to be run from Britain but now you want the Belgians, Swiss or Swedes to take over.

These countries probably have water charges and the country probably accepts it.

Johnboner

Yourself isit wrote: »

You started out wanting us to be run from Britain but now you want the Belgians, Swiss or Swedes to take over.

These countries probably have water charges and the country probably accepts it.

Germany was better off under Hitler rule, sounds ridiculous but it is true. That is until hitler decided to invade Poland. German economy was absolutely terrible but he brought it back up.

Johnboner

Yourself isit wrote: »

You should try London.

London has twice the population of Ireland.

Johnboner

Collie D wrote: »

Ok, let's reduce TD salaries to average wage. That should keep us in paint fir road markings for a few weeks.

As for tolled roads. Look up "Tory governments" and "privatisation"

I could name things all night

Edgarfrndly

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

Pros

• NHS.
• Buses that run on time.
• Cheap beer.

Cons

• Heightened target for terrorist attacks.
• Stupendous amounts of tax wasted on seemingly futile wars.
• London-driven politics, with a situation similar to Scotland where a Tory government with little or no MP's in our country, would decide the fate of our country. Ergo, democracy eroded.
• Neutrality ruined.
• Diluted identity.
• Probably being pulled out of the EU, whereas I suspect a majority of Irish people would have voted to stay.
• Culture & Arts funding probably reduced greatly. Irish language well and truly dusted.
• Every second generation, we'd see our streets turned into warzones in an effort to achieve independence.

I mean, I'm trying to weigh up the good and the bad - but as someone who doesn't drink and hates public transport, I think I'll stay independent for now.

The NHS is ****.

Johnboner

Johnboner wrote: »

Germany was better off under Hitler rule, sounds ridiculous but it is true. That is until hitler decided to invade Poland. German economy was absolutely terrible but he brought it back up.

Wasn't that due to their massive rearmanent programme and quantatative easing?

dd972

Being a Lander of Germany or an off-shore province of Norway would surely be better, if the 1916 leaders weren't executed things might have calmed and some sort of quasi-independent Home Rule might have staved off the Orange statelet that shot itself in the foot, however a proper all-island civil war was still a major possibility.

One_Of_Shanks

dd972 wrote: »

, if the 1916 leaders weren't executed things might have calmed and some sort of quasi-independent Home Rule might have staved off the Orange statelet that shot itself in the foot, however a proper all-island civil war was still a major possibility.

Eloquently phrased. You can almost hear the fields of barley rippling in the background.

Berserker

rickfisher1988 wrote: »

We have created a dynamic and vibrant economy. Criticize politicians all your like, but we have a healthy and innovative economy.

Multinationals who set up base here for tax reasons have generated an economy in the RoI. The politicians merely facilitated the implementation of a vision that was presented to them by some Irish-American businessmen. Most of the current shower, particularly those on the left, would refuse to implement it, if it was presented to them today.

Johnboner wrote: »

Don't forget our rents which are an absolute bargain.

Property is a national obsession in Ireland. Not sure what the source of it is; might have something to do with your famine but owning and investing in property is part of the national psyche. Can't see how the RoI being under British rule would help put a stop to the nonsense that we see in the property market.

Collie D wrote: »

Yeah, because we had loads of say in things before the creation of the State

Dublin was the second city of the empire up until the creation of the State. Stop trying to play the poor-mouth. Dublin had plenty of power and privilege prior to 1916.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

tomwaterford

Johnboner wrote: »

I could name things all night

Such as?

Collie D

Berserker wrote: »

Dublin was the second city of the empire up until the creation of the State. Stop trying to play the poor-mouth. Dublin had plenty of power and privilege prior to 1916.

Ah, grand so until those uppity rebels threw their toys from the pram Paddy was an equal. Got it.

Capt'n Midnight

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

Pros

• NHS.
• Buses that run on time.
• Cheap beer.

Some buses run on time. The railways have been overcrowded and late for generations.
And in many places the costs of public transport are extortionate

Beer is cheap but water is expensive

Rainman16

Collie D wrote: »

Self-governance which while you may think is not great is a lot better than someone in Westminster making decisions about a place and people they don't really give a **** about. The north and Scotland are already examples of this.

Yeah because having a woman in Germany making our decisions is so much better.

buried

"Make Ireland GREAT Britain AGAIN.
They got TREMENDOUS TALENT.
We're gonna Build a wall around Dublin and give the rest to TESCO.
Its going to be FANTASTIC people.
And anyone who doesn't like it.......there. will. be. CONSEQUENCES
Fantastic Famine Ships will cart away the anti-progress terrorists to China.
That's right.
DRAIN THE SWAMP.
SELL THE SHANNON.
O'CONNELL STREET?? Make that a CORONATION STREET
GEALTACHT?? Make that a KRISTALLNACHT
The GAA????? KILL THEM ALL
TREMENDOUS
Let ME tell you.
I won't pay a cent for it either.
You'll see.."

RobertKK

We are actually doing very well for a small country and in things like the human development index which measures a number of things that affect quality of life, we are among the very highest in the world, last ranking put us in joint 6th with Germany.
The UK and Belgium were below us...

Berserker

Rainman16 wrote: »

Yeah because having a woman in Germany making our decisions is so much better.

I'd add the USA to that too. They treated the likes of Obama and Clinton like they were demigods.

RobertKK

Collie D wrote: »

Ah, grand so until those uppity rebels threw their toys from the pram Paddy was an equal. Got it.

The problem for the Irish really started when you went beyond the Pale...

pragmatic1

You're ****in insane OP. Under the British, at the height of their empire, we were one of the poorest nations in the world. Not Europe, the world.

wakka12

Yeh then compare Ireland to some other poorer mainland countries like serbia and moldova and things look a bit more peachy don't they

wakka12

Also , it may have been better if Ireland were treated more fairly within this hypothetical scenario, such as how scotland and wales are presently. But no Ireland would not be better today if things had were remained how they were, we were a colony, a source of income for england , thats all we were to them they did not care about irish people at all. Any infrastructural improvements made were simply to produce money more efficiently in Ireland for the empire

pragmatic1

pragmatic1 wrote: »

You're ****in insane OP. Under the British, at the height of their empire, we were one of the poorest nations in the world. Not Europe, the world.

Rubbish! Ireland had a similar level of inequality as most other countries at the time endured, the 0.1% owned 90% of everything.

blueser

buried wrote: »

"Make Ireland GREAT Britain AGAIN.
They got TREMENDOUS TALENT.
We're gonna Build a wall around Dublin and give the rest to TESCO.
Its going to be FANTASTIC people.
And anyone who doesn't like it.......there. will. be. CONSEQUENCES
Fantastic Famine Ships will cart away the anti-progress terrorists to China.
That's right.
DRAIN THE SWAMP.
SELL THE SHANNON.
O'CONNELL STREET?? Make that a CORONATION STREET
GEALTACHT?? Make that a KRISTALLNACHT
The GAA????? KILL THEM ALL
TREMENDOUS
Let ME tell you.
I won't pay a cent for it either.
You'll see.."

You'd want to get that caps lock key sorted out.

:rolleyes:

Skommando

Scotland done very well under the brits, thanks to their policy of serving rural areas as well as urban ones.

buried

blueser wrote: »

You'd want to get that caps lock key sorted out.

:rolleyes:

NASTY keyboard

Tin Foil Hat

Johnboner wrote: »

Seeing as how our government is so incompetent makes you think if it would have been better to stay part of the UK. Ireland is so badly managed when you compare it to similar mainland countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Ireland comes out as a bit of a joke.

They'd have used us as a dump for the crap that comes out of Sellafield.

AgileMyth

Johnboner wrote: »

Seeing as how our government is so incompetent makes you think if it would have been better to stay part of the UK. Ireland is so badly managed when you compare it to similar mainland countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Ireland comes out as a bit of a joke.

Having lived in Belgium I strongly disagree. The entire southern half has just been completely forgotten about for the past 30 years.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

Rubbish! Ireland had a similar level of inequality as most other countries at the time endured, the 0.1% owned 90% of everything.

Skommando wrote: »

Scotland done very well under the brits, thanks to their policy of serving rural areas as well as urban ones.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2014/05/2852/298170

It is claimed that currently 432 private land owners own 50% of the private land in rural Scotland. The latest estimate of Scotland's population is 5,327,000 , so this means that half of a fundamental resource for the country is owned by 0.008% of the population

The likely re-concentration of land ownership which has taken place over the last 40-50 years is partly explained in terms of the ownership of good farmland, with, for example, about 75% of the farms sold in 2013 being bought by other farmers.[11] The activity of the Danish businessman Anders Povlsen, who has purchased six large estates in recent years (to become Scotland's second largest land owner with around 65,000 ha), has also contributed to this apparent re-concentration.

That's 650Km2 , two thirds the size of County Dublin which is 922 Km2.



Map of top 50 estates from https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/10/scotland-land-rights

Herb Powell

Johnboner wrote: »

Seeing as how our government is so incompetent makes you think if it would have been better to stay part of the UK. Ireland is so badly managed when you compare it to similar mainland countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Ireland comes out as a bit of a joke.

Countries like Switzerland and Belgium, but not the UK, right?

NikoTopps

of course we wouldn't

steddyeddy

OK let's treat your question seriously. Have we a model for Ireland under British rule? Yes pre-indepence rep of Ireland and current day Northern Ireland. Let's examine NI .

Their economy is atrocious, their society is fractured along sectarian lines and hate plays a big part of their politics. No, the facts say we're better out of English rule.

Pherekydes

Bring back the Penal Laws.

tomwaterford

Pherekydes wrote: »

Bring back the Penal Laws.

Sounds like something from a brexit proposal

Flex

Berserker wrote: »

Dublin was the second city of the empire up until the creation of the State. Stop trying to play the poor-mouth. Dublin had plenty of power and privilege prior to 1916.

Just on this particular point, as I love history, Dublin was the second largest city in the British Empire and 5th or 6th largest city in all of Europe in 1800, prior to the Union and considered one of the best planned and designed cities of the time. By 1910 Dublin was irrelevant (wasnt even the largest city in Ireland anymore, Belfast had outgrown it as it had barely grown since 1800) and the living conditions were dreadful. A commission to report into it found that 40% of the population lived in slums and the infant mortality rate was the highest in Europe, and worse even than Calcutta.

Beyond that, looking at census reports for Ireland at the time the stats on social and economic conditions in the country were unbelievable. 80% of the people of Connacht lived in huts made of mud and stick insulated with animal faeces up to the 1850's, and reading the journals and accounts of people who came and visited Ireland from Europe gives brutal insight into how dreadful the country was through the 19th century and how it steadily got worse as time went on.

While British rule overall was bad, but had some good points, Ireland's time in the United Kingdom was catastrophic (I read a fact that Ireland is the only country on earth were the population is lower today than it was in 1840). We were never treated like Scotland or Wales, we were a colony. Perhaps things may be different nowadays with the present political landscape, but thats hypothetical. Going off of the facts and experience, the answer to whether Ireland would have been better off staying in the UK is no for me (difficult thing for me to say too given how utterly **** our politicians are).

Galwayguy35

I'm no historian but didn't the English take everything that was worth anything from us during the time they occupied Ireland?

They cut down all the forests to use for their ships and let our ancestors die of hunger by the side of the roads while food was exported to other parts of their "Empire".

There is a lot that needs fixing here at the moment, most importantly a good health service where people don't have to wait months to be seen by a specialist if the don't have to money to go private or spend 15 hours on a trolley waiting for a bed but Ireland is still a good country to live in.

However I think it's the quality of Politicians we have in power that's a lot of the problem, they've made some woeful decisions and I think the rot started with De Valera.

The country might have turned out a lot different if Collins hadn't been shot, I doubt he would have gone running to the church before he made a decision like De Valera did.

Avatar MIA

Berserker wrote: »

Dublin was the second city of the empire up until the creation of the State. Stop trying to play the poor-mouth. Dublin had plenty of power and privilege prior to 1916.

Propaganda. Dublin was a shíthole slum.

You'll be calling it the jewel in the crown next.

When people consider UK compared to Ireland they really think about living in London.

Large parts of England and Wales (lets not forget heavily subsidised yet under performing NI) are little more than a forgotten inconvenience. Scotland seems to have been carving out an identity for themselves. More power* to them.







*Literally.

Skommando

steddyeddy wrote: »

OK let's treat your question seriously. Have we a model for Ireland under British rule? Yes pre-indepence rep of Ireland and current day Northern Ireland. Let's examine NI .

Their economy is atrocious, their society is fractured along sectarian lines and hate plays a big part of their politics. No, the facts say we're better out of English rule.

Scotland done very well under the Brits, especially the rural areas, and if Northern Ireland wasn't so into terrorism and killing each other, so would it.

Annasopra

Johnboner wrote: »

British rule over Ireland so we can become great again.

Great Britain?

iLikeWaffles

Nothing to do with the Government every Irish person is to blame for putting up with them. How many votes did Enda get in his constituency 15-20k less!? and he becomes Taoiseach because he is party leader. If you have someone who has no merits for leadership and politicians that are sh*t at their job your going to have a sh*t Government.

It is up to all Irish people to make sure that our Government knows what they are doing. That are actually educated and qualified to do the job instead of just sh*t talking when election comes about and in doing so know that they will become Taoiseach because they are party leader. So why oh why do we vote in a general election locally only for the party leader to run the country waste of money.

We should all be voting for a Taoiseach together. That way we give a person that has the knowledge and the expertise the power to run the country. Put it this way if a Political Science Professor from Trinity College ran for Taoiseach and he was up against the many clowns currently in power who would we vote for.... It wouldn't be taking 70 days either!!

Avatar MIA

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Put it this way if a Political Science Professor from Trinity College ran for Taoiseach and he was up against the many clowns currently in power who would we vote for.... It wouldn't be taking 70 days either!!

Sorry, an academic is the best you can think of to become Taoiseach?

iLikeWaffles

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Sorry, an academic is the best you can think of to become Taoiseach?

Did you miss the point?

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2014/05/2852/298170


That's 650Km2 , two thirds the size of County Dublin which is 922 Km2.



Map of top 50 estates from https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/10/scotland-land-rights

The times of the "Landed Gentry" are returning, makes no difference what the country is called or who rules, the land will not be owned by you or your neighbours.

Owryan

Johnboner wrote: »

Seeing as how our government is so incompetent makes you think if it would have been better to stay part of the UK. Ireland is so badly managed when you compare it to similar mainland countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Ireland comes out as a bit of a joke.

Serious, if you hate/dislike Ireland so much why do you spend all your time here giving out about the country? Why not just fcuk off to one of those countries you seem to idolise?

Avatar MIA

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Did you miss the point?

If the point was to suggest we could potentially get someone as useless as an academic it was a bit of a waste.

People, I think, mostly over estimate the effect a government has on the running of a country.

Name a few politicians that you think have made a significant and positive effect on their country? And I'm guessing none of them were political professors.