Reloading

fiestaman

Can you reload rifle rounds here in Ireland??

gunny123

Only at the midlands rifle club afaik

fiestaman

gunny123 wrote: »

Only at the midlands rifle club afaik

What do you mean, you must be a member there before you can do it and then if you want you must do it there?

gunny123

Yes and yes, it was a pilot scheme to see how it went.

fiestaman

gunny123 wrote: »

Yes and yes, it was a pilot scheme to see how it went.

Thanks, I shall enquire

Cass

The pilot scheme has worked very well, and i believe two more ranges have since put in tenders for reloading.

BattleCorp

Am I right in thinking it's only allowed if you shoot F Class?

Cass

Target shooting only. No hunting stuff as per the DoJ instructions.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

Target shooting only. No hunting stuff as per the DoJ instructions.

What sort of rubbish do they go on with at all ? Hunting ammo is the most expensive, €40 usually for a box of 20. It seems someone in the doj watches too many silly hollywood action flicks, and thinks they are real.

If its ok to do it in a club, why not at home like the rest of the civilised world ?

Cass

This has been going on for years. Without going into too much detail, because i'm tired of hearing it at this stage.

• The DoJ asked if anyone wanted reloading.
• The NRAI were only ones to put in a bid.
• The DoJ invited invitations for months but at the end only the NRAI put in a bid.
• They were granted a pilot scheme on the basis it was used for what they wanted it for, long range shooting.
• The scheme has been running, successfully, for nearly 7 years now.
• In the past couple of months two more clubs/ranges have put in bids for it which is excellent news. The more that do it, the better it is.

As the reloading was sought for long range target shooting by the NRAI, were hunting ammo is not used, it was not included in what could bee reloaded. The key point in all this is the DoJ control every aspect of reloading. From the facilities that had to be built (just check out the bunkers at the MNSCI to see what i mean) to the way it was handled/managed, to who could take part in it, etc, etc.

If at any stage we tried to demand or even ask nicely for it for hunting, at home, etc. it would have been pulled from us and as the only place to seek it that would have shut down reloading for everyone with almost no chance of it being available again. If you think that is a bit much just ask yourself when was the last time a gun law was issued/repealed/brought back to our benefit.

It's a delicate balance and i'd sooner see what we have, for the moment, than not have the option at all.

gunny123

I wasn't having a go Cass, but why do the doj make such a meal of things that are very routine everywhere else ? I know lads in the uk who reload a lot, they apply to do it, the police come and do a security check, and then they can reload at home til there hearts content, no "bunkers" or any of that crap.

Same with the practical sports, even in the uk where things are tight, practical is still done with shotgun and rifle, but here its no way.

Also black powder/muzzleloader shooting, in other countries its seen as a quaint throwback practiced by people with an interest in history, but of course not allowed here.

Cass

gunny123 wrote: »

I wasn't having a go Cass,

I know you weren't lad, wasn't taken that way. Sorry if the rpely seemed like it was.

but why do the doj make such a meal of things that are very routine everywhere else ?

I honestly don't know.

Based on what we had to build to get it, and even after a demonstration, they must have been convinced it was seriously dangerous stuff. However that is only my own thoughts on it, as said i don't know why they view it as they do.

I know lads in the uk who reload a lot, they apply to do it, the police come and do a security check, and then they can reload at home til there hearts content, no "bunkers" or any of that crap.

Yup.

Same with America, and most of Europe. Some lads reloading rooms are things of envy with all the propellants, bullets, etc. all sitting there. It's a true pastime. The trip to the range to have to do it can be a PITA. We can prep the brass at home, but absolutely no propellant or primers. It means all testing loads have to be done up at the range which means you can spend hours making up some loads to test, and possibly loose out on shooting/testing time.

My last load took close to 5 months to perfect. That included a minimum of a couple of visits per month, loading one day, shooting the next, back home, brass prep, back to the range for tweaking or starting over, then shooting again. That could have been halved if i could have done it at home. However as i said above i'm still grateful that it can be done at all because without it F-Class in Ireland would be a joke. Imagine using factory ammo against reloads in competitions!

Same with the practical sports, even in the uk where things are tight, practical is still done with shotgun and rifle, but here its no way.

Practical sports is a whole other ball of wax, but i agree with ya. It's viewed as combat training and why you cannot use even this type of target for fear it might resemble a person and give some people insult or pause for thought.

Also black powder/muzzleloader shooting, in other countries its seen as a quaint throwback practiced by people with an interest in history, but of course not allowed here.

The Midlands have black powder shooting.

garrettod

Cass wrote: »

....

[*]The scheme has been running, successfully, for nearly 7 years now.

.

Eh, it's been a "pilot scheme" for nearly 7 years ?

.... good old Ireland

Tackleberry.

I talked to a man who sat at the table of a FCP meeting where the reloading was part of the agenda, he told me that reloading will not be made available to people at home in Ireland and that's because the Garda talked with the English Police force who said if they had a fresh start that they also would now not allow it to be something that could be done at home, so that's that...ranges only.
But also I assume its no longer only just for F Class target shooting as now a total of 3 ranges are now allowed to reload, I don't know who the extra ranges or if they still are trying to meet requirements ,but I'm guessing Gallery lads are looking also for reloading so it will make it to smaller ranges in the future..

gunny123

Tackleberry. wrote: »

I talked to a man who sat at the table of a FCP meeting where the reloading was part of the agenda, he told me that reloading will not be made available to people at home in Ireland and that's because the Garda talked with the English Police force who said if they had a fresh start that they also would now not allow it to be something that could be done at home, so that's that...ranges only.

The uk police also allow practical shooting sports, did the guy at the FCP meeting forget that bit, or more likely they cherry pick the bits they like and don't like.

Cass

garrettod wrote: »

Eh, it's been a "pilot scheme" for nearly 7 years ?

.... good old Ireland

Yup. Still i'll take it anyway i can get it.

Tackleberry. wrote: »

But also I assume its no longer only just for F Class target shooting as now a total of 3 ranges are now allowed to reload, ..........

I'[d assume so. The MNSCI are the only long range in the country so any other range would be a different discipline. Still it's good to see it eventually spread out.Pity they did not take advantage of it years ago. Might be a different story today.

gunny123 wrote: »

The uk police also allow practical shooting sports, did the guy at the FCP meeting forget that bit, or more likely they cherry pick the bits they like and don't like.

Its hard to argue for something that very few are doing. Look at the Embassey Cup Clivej is involved in. Very few to any ranges ran these. By the time they came into the "crosshairs" of the DoJ it's too late to try and run them to save the sport.

Secondly, as i said above, the Gardaí were never keen on the idea of practical shooting. They were simply just against it. The funny part to me is that Airsoft and Paintball resembles combat shooting a hell of a lot more than any practical shooting we ever done with real guns. When you look at what they do, where, and in the garb they are dressed in.

Yet once again we got the short end of the stick.

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

I

I honestly don't know.

Based on what we had to build to get it, and even after a demonstration, they must have been convinced it was seriously dangerous stuff. However that is only my own thoughts on it, as said i don't know why they view it as they do.

After having a chat once with the CRI who was well involved in this project,I think it came down to ABC CYA[Always Be Covered,Cover Your Ass] mentality.
It had never been done in the Republic and No one wanted to be left hanging out in the wind if things somehow went pear shaped. I have shown pics from Google earth to German officals who conduct reloading courses of the "bunkers" out in the Midlands and their response is.."Are you storing high explosives or nerve gas in Ireland??" For what it is ,it is complete over kill,but thats what you get when scared beuracrats get involved in something they don't really understand..plus add in a good ol excuse of everything here "The IRA/criminals might......." Oddly said two groups don't seem to be short of semtex or other improvised explosives for pipe bombs here these days..:rolleyes:

In Germany the reloading course can be done in a DAY and that liscenses you to buy nitro powder and reload as much as you like,[provided you dont sell the reloaded ammo.] Make a weekend of it and you can have both BP and nitro liscenses in the post on Wednesday morning.90% of the course is EU,German and UN law and maybe 10% on "How to reload a bullet." It really is inexplicable why this cant be done here...All you need at home is a secure storage facility but cant be living in a communal building..IOW forget reloading in an apartment block.

Practical sports is a whole other ball of wax, but i agree with ya. It's viewed as combat training and why you cannot use even this type of target for fear it might resemble a person and give some people insult or pause for thought.

Alot of that caused by our own stupidity and not having an established fall back position when we should have started practical shotgun here years ago and made it an acceptable and routine shooting sport.So next to Austrailia we are the only two countries that ban an international sport that is acceptable in places like Zimbabwae or South Africa,where "combat shooting" might be a tad bit more of concern to the goverments.:rolleyes:

The Midlands have black powder shooting

.
You live&learn!:eek: Could you PM me some details?Who,what,when where stuff?

Re airsoft and IPSC..I dont understand this at all.Actually FWIK the airsoft people have said airsoft IPSC is banned here as well!!?? If this is not true, Ireland could shoot iPSC,because airsoft IPSC was introduced especially for gun banned countries like Sth Korea China and Japan,where airsoft is legal. The Japanese team are really clever on this they practise with exact copies of the real gun and then go to wherever the matches are held and borrow or arrange for the real guns to be there,and then go and win ridicilous amounts of times...

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Alot of that caused by our own stupidity and not having an established fall back position when we should have started practical shotgun here years ago and made it an acceptable and routine shooting sport.

Yup. No point closing the gate when the horses have bolted.

You live&learn!:eek: Could you PM me some details?Who,what,when where stuff?

I've no idea how its ran lad. Not involved in it, but the range does antique and historic rifles and they are shot. Give JP a shout.

Re airsoft and IPSC..I dont understand this at all..............

First video that came up when i typed it into Google.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vZq5SAPoS0

There are thousands more like it. Full military garb, airsoft that not only look like, but weigh and feel the same as their real life counterparts, and all done in a combat style.

Not trying to bash airsoft or paintball here, but why is it we get the full weight of the DoJ/An Gardaí when we try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK3gtIvg5Yw

A sport that is practiced all around the world and the target are steel/paper (not other humans) in a range environment with ROs, safety areas, rules, and backstops?

BattleCorp

There's an interest in the Embassy Cup. It's not dead. There's a few lads from my club after applying for licences to take part.

BattleCorp

Wrong thread but I see Courtlough have joined the NASRPC.

I was never there. Looking forward to seeing it now.

tac foley

Can we just clear up a few misconceptions here, please?

1. The UK police do not come around to your house and do a security check on whether or not you can reload. If you already have a FAC, then you are automatically allowed to reload ammunition up to your limit of possession. There is NO requirement to do a course, as we all tend to teach each other, although there IS a one-day event run by the British NRA down at Bisley. Many gunstores will set you up as you buy the gear to do it, and it really isn't rocket science.

2. Security checks by police? Doesn't happen, folks. The fact that you have firearms is evidence that you have secure accommodations for your guns AND ammunition, even if it's stuff that you have made. If you are a target shooter, you can have any and all target-type bullets - ie, FMJ bullets - to reload. If you hunt game where soft-point/expanding or fragmenting ammunition is required for humane purposes, then you must have the kind of FAC that allows you to pursue this type of sport. At the moment - and there is a possibility that this might change - a person who hunts can buy target-type bullets as well as his hunting stuff, but as a paper-puncher only I cannot, as they are licensed as Section 5 projectiles.

3. Any doubt that BP shooting is alive and well in UK should look at the MLAGB site. There is even an association range at Wedgnock where nothing EXCEPT BP may be shot. Anybody coming over here to see me from Ireland is usually forced to ensure that their time includes a gun club guest day, where they can shoot ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, including BP stuff. True, BP needs a proper storage box, made of wood to the approved pattern for safety sake, and you need a Home Office license [free, lasts five years] to buy and transport and keep it], and you are limited to 25kg...but the numerous substitute propellants are readily available without a separate license, as they not Class 1 Explosive substances like real BP, but ordinary NC propellants.

From my own POV and as a BP shooter, I'm both surprised and totally delighted to learn that BP shooting CAN take place in the RoI, and I look forward to learning more about it all, and to welcome any Irish BP shooters into the bliss of shooting clouds of cow-f*rt smoke. Anyone here who is interested in talking BP, rifle or pistol, please make yourselves known. Perhaps the Mods might even start up a BP forum on this site?

tac

Tackleberry.

gunny123 wrote: »

The uk police also allow practical shooting sports, did the guy at the FCP meeting forget that bit, or more likely they cherry pick the bits they like and don't like.

Well that's a bit like the reloading nobody spoke up except the NRAI when it was on offer, then everyone wanted it, have you contacted anyone your Club Sec/FCP don't always assume it's even on the table go look for it....

tac foley

Please let's get something totally straight - the UK police do NOT allow or permit ANY kind of shooting sports. The UK government Home Office writes the laws, and the police are there to uphold these laws and see that they are complied with by those authorised to possess firearms.

If you act outside those laws, then the police will act to prevent you from doing so. The Chief Constable of the county/area in which you live is required in LAW to permit you to have firearms, if you fulfill the requisite good reasons for having it/them. The wording is 'SHALL issue.....firearms certificate etc...' not 'might if he feels like it...'

So practical shotgun is permitted in UK - our club is one such location. The firearms used are classed the same as a rifle - a Section I firearm - because they hold more than three cartridges.

And Civilian Service Rifle is permitted - the civilian version of the BA's 800/600/400/200/100m rundown competition. The firearms used for this style of sport are the usually UK-only straight-pull firearms and bolt action firearms. All firearms used in this sport are military-style, and the whole idea is a left-over from the days of the volunteer militia of the latter end of the 19th C. It's great fun, as you can see on Youtube.

Gallery rifle that many of you are familiar with has taken over from IPSC pistol, although there is also a thriving gallery pistol using .22 rimfire semi-autos or revolvers - all of the ridiculous so-called 'long-barrelled' configuration..

I suggest that anybody interested should look up the 1500 comps, although I'm sure you do them just the same in the RoI, since many Irish shooters come over to UK to show the locals how it's done.

tac

Grizzly 45

Always fancied a BP "Quigley " Sharps target rifle myself.So might go and see what is doable on this.

As for the IPSC/"Combat" nonsense here.It's ironic that most of the EU,bar maybe a few of the "Free" East block states[double irony] and Switzerland actually ban combat training with firearms as well.It's just that they can actually define the difference between the two of them....Now,considering that we have got people here who are EX service,EX police and EX personal protectors,both in our Irish security forces and from further afield who have done both... One would wonder what would it take to get a review of this legislation by professionals in their field?and before it is said,well the gaurds will just shut it down....etc...Remember it was our home grown experts on firearms laws who mostly won the handgun and MSR points in law in our courts.We left and have a good impression in the govt of our capabilities from the comittee hearings and since this has been 8 years since this legislation has passed there should be a possibility of a review and this being brought up on the FCP? Obviously not the top pirority of things ,but one that should be possibly be mooted eventually?

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Always fancied a BP "Quigley " Sharps target rifle myself.So might go and see what is doable on this.

Being too poor to afford a Sharps Quigley Model, I found myself a beautiful Uberti Winchester High-Wall in .45-70 Govt, and amuse myself with that instead. It's a near match for the Browning/Miroku-SKB version I shoot over in Oregon, although that is in .30-06.

I cast my own bullets for it, using church roofing lead - legally-acquired, I have to say, after our local church replaced all its lead with fake stuff that the travelling community don't care to 'borrow' and take with them on their travels.

You can see it in action on Youtube - tac's guns High Wall.

I guess this really needs a new thread, eh, Mods?

tac

Cass

BattleCorp wrote: »

There's an interest in the Embassy Cup. It's not dead. There's a few lads from my club after applying for licences to take part.

This is what i was saying above though. The interest is only showing up now, when the laws have been passed and the sport made so much harder to compete in (restricted licenses, lack of comps, etc).

Had there been a solid and established series of shoots for it then the case to keep it more open would have been much stronger. Its very much like the amount of people that want a centrefire pistol after they were effectively banned.

While it's hard to anticipate what may come there is either a discipline for certain sports or there is not. Trying to establish one to validate a choice of gun is futile and trying to create one after the hammer has fallen is too late for most.

Watch this space for semi autos. If the EU has their way they'll be next to be banned or grandfathered (a fancy way of banning without the monetary compensation bit) and only then will people start complaining and wanting a semi auto.

tac foley wrote: »

From my own POV and as a BP shooter, I'm both surprised and totally delighted to learn that BP shooting CAN take place in the RoI, ............

As i said in my post above i'm not involved in historic or classic rifle including BP so i won't pretend to try and even get into a conversation about it (better to be classed a fool than to open my mouth and confirm it ). However here is a very short clip from the Creedmoor last year of Mr. John Sigler (US F-CLass team) firing the open shot to mark the beginning of the competition using a BP rifle with a long history (please don't ask, i've no idea, but it was explained on the day):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umx6926dFIE

tac foley wrote: »

I guess this really needs a new thread, eh, Mods?

tac

Lash away lads. If you want to discuss BP go for gold. I wouldn't know where to start.

tac foley

Much obliged to you for that clip, Sir.

tac

gunny123

Practical shooting in what looks like an old textile mill in Frome uk. They can do it without the world falling off its axis.


https://youtu.be/7EzLjC55orU

minktrapper

Is there any chance of getting to reload shotgun cartridges as distinct from rifle cartridges.

tac foley

minktrapper wrote: »

Is there any chance of getting to reload shotgun cartridges as distinct from rifle cartridges.

MT - regardless of the type of ammunition, the same process is involved in reloading it. In the case of shotgun cartridges, you'd really have to live in Antarctica to want to reload them, given the cost of factory stuff.

While reloading rifle or handgun ammunition is a worthwhile adjunct to shooting, given the actual unit cost of rifle ammunition these days, it's a very VERY unusual day on the range where you'd shoot a couple of hundred shots or more centre-fire rifle rounds - commonplace numbers with sporting clays, so I'm told by my rich pals.

tac

Grizzly 45

By the e time you would have everything liscesned,bought equipment and set up shop,each shotgun shell would proably be costing a fiver.:)
Really not worth it in this day and age of bulk buying of shells.