Reloading

minktrapper

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

By the e time you would have everything liscesned,bought equipment and set up shop,each shotgun shell would proably be costing a fiver.:)
Really not worth it in this day and age of bulk buying of shells.

Why would anyone bother doing it so. As in why would anyone try selling the equipment for reloading shotgun cartridges.$77 for a Lee shotgun reloader in 20 g.

tac foley

Where reloading is a normal part of the shooting scene, many shotgunners reload their own ammunition, as it IS cost-effective IF you do it in large amounts. I'm talking about gun clubs and so on, like one of the places I frequent in North America where the duty reloaders are cranking the stuff out by the thousands a day at the weekend. A competition weekend with three or four hundred shooters really piles up those hulls, and when you throw that used cartridge case over your shoulder you are throwing away about 40% of the cost of the round - many folks don't care for that waste of money.

tac

Grizzly 45

As you said Tac..Where it is NORMAL....[That precludes here and 90% of Europe by the look of things] and where you have that sort of bulk,you can proably justify a Dillon precision semi industrial machine for that work.But here for Joe Bloggs who shoots mabe a two sleeves worth of shells a go at a shoot??

One thing ,whats the story in your club with product liability?? Somone loads a reload that someone missed and hot loaded ,and blows the end off someones barrel or what have you...Is it at own risk or... Just curious as this would be impossible no doubt over here or anywhere in the EU?

Grizzly 45

minktrapper wrote: »

Why would anyone bother doing it so. As in why would anyone try selling the equipment for reloading shotgun cartridges.$77 for a Lee shotgun reloader in 20 g.

I'll sell you mine for 40! Never used and can do both 12&20.:D:P

Cass

For someone starting off, buying all the gear, and having to buy the initial components to get started the average round cost will be higher. Much higher when you factor in the equipment cost.

As you reload the cost per round drops. It gets to a point and kinda plateaus. Thing is you put any saving straight back into it in new components or gear.

The savings are nothing to shout about, and frankly it's not why you do it. You do it to turn an average rifle into a tack driver, to get 2 inch groups at 1,000 yards, etc. IOW an very noticeable increase in accuracy and precision.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

One thing ,whats the story in your club with product liability?? Somone loads a reload that someone missed and hot loaded ,and blows the end off someones barrel or what have you...Is it at own risk or... Just curious as this would be impossible no doubt over here or anywhere in the EU?

Hmmmm, tricky one to answer, that.

See, I've been loading since the late 60's, and never blown anything up, or even near it. I do as the book tells me, and use the data tables rather than my imagination for loading.

Another point is that although we quite happily shoot somebody else's gun with THEIR reloads, there is no way on earth that I'd shoot THEIR loads in MY guns, and vice-versa. Not that we don't trust each other, but I know what my loads do in my guns, so I stick to them.

When making up loads, you always start at or near the bottom of the figures in the data, and work your way up to a satisfactory result. Signs of high pressure are easy to read, and having shot one round that shows the signs - flattened primer, or even a cratered primer - you stop right there with that load. Testing loads are only done in threes or fives at the most, by small increments, and the handy reloader's friend - the inertia bullet puller - is ever ready to be used.

The only accident I ever saw directly involving handloaded ammunition was in Germany, and it was fatal - not to the shooter, but to the poor b*gger standing beside him. Complete and utter carelessness on the part of the handloader was the reason there, and total disregard for two of the basics of reloading - only EVER have ONE reloading powder on the bench at any time.

And don't forget to recalibrate/reset your powder measure for the different cartridge that you are loading.

Commonsense rules reloading, and a total lack of experimental 'what-ifs' are needful, nay, compulsory.

tac

tac foley

Grizzly - perhaps I should have mentioned that powder charges are not done with a tablespoon or even a teaspoon, but using precision measuring devices that register/operate to 1/70,000 of a pound. We work in TENTHS of a grain, not a 'bit more o'that'll do just fine'.

I use two sets of digital scales and little device called a trickler that enables you to literally drop a single flake/dot of powder in the scales. A pal of mine who had access to far better laboratory scales told me that one individual 'dot/flake' or powder could weigh as little as 1/100,000 of a pound. Why pounds and not kilograms? Because there are 'only' a 1000 milligrams in a kilo, but 7000 grains in a pound, and besides, only one powder producing company produces loading tables in which the bullets are weighed in grams, let alone the charges. Since most of the world shoots American bullets, using American powder and American loading data handbooks, it seems perfectly normal to me.

If you have a set of electronic delivery scales like the RCBS or Hornady devise, then setting your charge metering system takes about half a minute, and you can easily double or even triple-check a load with another scale in parallel. 'sides, you can see the load in the case, and looking into each case in the loading block is a must-do before topping it off with the bullet.

Anyhow, we are still a long way from general reloading in the Republic and apart from the passing interest, most of this is moot.

tac

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

The savings are nothing to shout about, and frankly it's not why you do it. You do it to turn an average rifle into a tack driver, to get 2 inch groups at 1,000 yards, etc. IOW an very noticeable increase in accuracy and precision.

As you say.Or that you have a rather obscure caliber where commercial loads are hard to get and you can get away with using a LEE hand press or LEE loader to keep costs down.

tac foley

Sure, Prvi Partizan are a tremendous help when it comes to some older military calibres like the 7mm MAS, 6.5 or 7mm Arisaka, and the various Steyr stuff - 6.5, 7.5 and 8x53R et al, but they are NOT cheap, AND here in UK you have to go and get them - no mail-order ammunition sales here...and if, like me, you live almost 200 miles from the one and only dealer, thae cost of fuel has to be factored into the overall cost of the ammunition.

Without reloading, and with the help of Bertram Brass in OZ, many of our obsolete calibres can be used again, especially the historic Winchester under-levers that are still very popular in calibres that last saw sales in the 1920s. I shoot a couple .577 Sniders, too, and REAL ammunition for that hasn't been made since before WW1.

TBH, it makes muzzle-loaders a lot more sensible [and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper] to shoot, since all you are doing there is shoving a lump of lead down a barrel.

tac

Grizzly 45

For obscure calibers ,try 7X65 R Vom Hofe or a Mauser 8X68.

tac foley

For obvious reasons, the obscure calibres that occupy my interests tend to be military or former military, rather than the ultra-obscure. .577-450, the Martini-Henry cartridge of the movie 'Zulu' fame, and the 11mm/.43cal Mauser M1884 are just two, but the 8x54R Steyr has a following, as do any of the many Winchester calibres.

The 'Cartridges of the World' handbook is crammed full of cartridges that appeared for a short time and then vanished into oblivion. the majority of them metric.

Many calibres are the ancestors of others, less obscure, and can therefore be made from the modified and/or fire-formed cases that are more readily available these days.

tac

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

The 'Cartridges of the World' handbook is crammed full of cartridges that appeared for a short time and then vanished into oblivion. the majority of them metric.

tac

Its a pity because a lot of the german/european designed metric rounds are or were extremely good, but of course they can't really compete against the american rounds. Quantity over quality i suppose.

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As you say.Or that you have a rather obscure caliber where commercial loads are hard to get and you can get away with using a LEE hand press or LEE loader to keep costs down.

True, but in a country as small as this, with such strict firearm laws, the amount of wildcat or oddball calibres would be low double digits.

tac foley

Cass, given that ALL wildcat calibres, by definition, are made either by the inventor or by enthusiasts with access to literally making the case from something else and reloading it, I'd be amazed if there were actually any at all. Over the way to the east, I don't know anybody who shoots a wildcat calibre.

Like you, we have the choice of factory stuff, if applicable, that seems to do the same thing.

A number of common calibres WERE at one-time so-called 'wildcats', but have proved so popular over the years that they have entered production. The 6.5x47 target round is one such.

tac

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

Cass, given that ALL wildcat calibres, by definition, are made either by the inventor or by enthusiasts with access to literally making the case from something else and reloading it, I'd be amazed if there were actually any at all.

Yup, hence the "low double digits" prediction and that is high balling it.