Residential tenancies bill 2016 proposals and discussion

_Kaiser_

irelandrover wrote: »

Because when that good tenant leaves then you can still only increase it by 4%.

Not so. If I read it right they can increase to "market rate" when the property has been refurbished or vacant.

irelandrover

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not so. If I read it right they can increase to "market rate" when the property has been refurbished or vacant.

I read it as it was based on the last tenancy

The cap will also apply to NEW tenancies based of rent under previous tenancy - so each accommodation will have a rent cap based on 4% anualised increase from the last point the rent was set.

Eric Cartman

so basically any landlord who hasn't had a rent increase in a while will be calling their tenants today before this slips in, just to make sure to make the most out of the cap. This is just setting high dublin rents in stone for almost ever.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

I think you can incentivise companies to locate outside of Dublin. Likewise national facilities, don't all need to be in Dublin.

Instead we are encouraging companies into Dublin, and dragging 2/3 of the population to Dublin for many services.

Considering the exodus on a Friday out of Dublin, and every evening I think we assume not everyone wants to live in Dublin.

There are massive incentives to locate companies outside of Dublin. I worked for a company that got 7 million from the IDA for investing and basing a startup in Westmeath. The gamble then is finding talent in the area you have based your company in. Also, I know everyone keeps saying not everyone wants to work in Dublin, but as poor as infrastructure is in Dublin, in parts of the country it is completely absent. To make Anywhere-but-Dublin attractive for companies to move to requires massive investment. Massive, massive investment which we don't have.

JoeCole26

So for example, im in an apartment now paying €1,325pm, and lease is up start of Feb. Most they can increase the rent to for the next year is €1,378? If thats the case im delighted with that, gives me a chance to continue to save towards a mortgage when the supply is out there in hopefully 2/3 years without the fear of the landlord putting the rent up to whatever they feel like. Definitely a good move imo.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so basically any landlord who hasn't had a rent increase in a while will be calling their tenants today before this slips in, just to make sure to make the most out of the cap. This is just setting high dublin rents in stone for almost ever.

For anyone whose rent hasnt gone up since November last year, expect it to go up by 4% in the next couple of weeks.

Pepe LeFrits

Idbatterim wrote: »

is it though?

Yes.

The issue here is a lack of supply and that is caused by a multitude of factors, many of them entirely or partially out of their control. The government don't control local government. They don't control investors. Hell they don't even really control the Dáil. Their power has limits and it isn't an easy problem to fix. Putting the housing situation down to corruption is a nice handy simple answer. Few things are ever simple.

Case in point, the reaction from the other parties in the Dáil today (NB. including Fianna Fail, the government's de-facto partner) was not that these proposed rent controls don't solve the problem and could make things worse, but rather that they don't go far enough. Ridiculous.

caff

SteM wrote: »

Do the government tell car rental companies how much they can raise their prices by in the summer? Do they tell hotels how much they can raise their rates by when there's a big concert on?

Why are they capping what landlords charge? Why don't they do the right thing and build ****ing houses - that's the only way rental costs will start to decrease in this economy.

Not comparable, neither are a necessity. Rent costs directly affect the amount of disposable income and cost of doing business through wage pressure therefore impacting the competitiveness of the economy and attractiveness of further job growth.

Kapips88

.

Donal55

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Plot twist - FF say no ...

Yep. Beginning to look more and more like a Dutch auction after listening to Damian English this evening. Pick any number between 1% and 4% and thats the increase then get a dividers and ordinance survey map and pick an area surrounding Dublin making sure Ballivor is included for Damian English and making sure Cork is looked after for Mehole, and that my friend, will be the new Rental strategy.

All into the Dail bar and have a happy new year.

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

For anyone whose rent hasnt gone up since November last year, expect it to go up by 4% in the next couple of weeks.

is this even passed yet though ? could they not do a sneaky 10% today knowing that this is coming.

Pepe LeFrits

irelandrover wrote: »

I read it as it was based on the last tenancy

The cap will also apply to NEW tenancies based of rent under previous tenancy - so each accommodation will have a rent cap based on 4% anualised increase from the last point the rent was set.

How on earth are they going to enforce that?

"Here, LL, mind if you send me your last tenant's phone number so I can check to see what rent he was paying?"

I reckon this is going to increase the number of AirBnB rentals...

Yourself isit

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

Instead of rent control maybe the government should stop taking half of the rent away from landlords. The fact a landlord renting an apartment at 1600 p/m only takes away 50-60% of that is a ****ing disgrace. Why would anyone want to be a landlord at that rate like?

That's normal income tax.

Kapips88

This is so unfair on investors its not even funny.

Landlords who were nice and were charging below market rate have just been f***ed with a long pole.
Thats gotta hurt.
People who want out better get out of the rental game quick, before another random rule change comes in to say they cant ask the tenants to leave before selling up.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

is this even passed yet though ? could they not do a sneaky 10% today knowing that this is coming.

Absolutely. If theyve not upped it since November 2015, they could easily up it 10% today.

Donal55

JoeCole26 wrote: »

So for example, im in an apartment now paying €1,325pm, and lease is up start of Feb. Most they can increase the rent to for the next year is €1,378? If thats the case im delighted with that, gives me a chance to continue to save towards a mortgage when the supply is out there in hopefully 2/3 years without the fear of the landlord putting the rent up to whatever they feel like. Definitely a good move imo.

Or the landlord could just turf you out when your lease is up and get in a new tenant on 1500 per month for the next few year with 4% increases!

Eric Cartman

Yourself isit wrote: »

That's normal income tax.

only, if you run a normal self employed business, your expenses are covered before tax, on 1600 of rent you get to keep 800 and still have to pay a 900+ mortgage.

_Kaiser_

Donal55 wrote: »

Or the landlord could just turf you out when your lease is up and get in a new tenant on 1500 per month for the next few year with 4% increases!

Not unless his Part 4 tenancy is up or unless under a specific set of circumstances (selling the property, extensive refurbishment etc)

Eric Cartman

seamus wrote: »

If anything rent controls will only increase demand in the areas that the controls apply.

There is some merit in it as a short-term measure in a housing crisis, as it ultimately means less people being forced out by increasing rents.

Most of the current homeless issue is not about a lack of housing, but a lack of housing where people want to live. Joe Bloggs is living in Rialto and gets forced out by increasing rents. He wants to live in Rialto, but can now only afford to live in Leixlip. So he goes on the housing list.

Boo-hoo you might say, but this is the issue at the heart of our housing crisis. If you freeze rents, then Joe can stay in Rialto and the person who would have taken his place will find somewhere else to live because they're more flexible.

Ultimately it will cause rents outside the "freeze" areas to go up disproportionately. Which means there's a bad chance of housing bubble mark 2 kicking in.

This should be part of a portfolio of measures to address the housing crisis and not a stopgap measure in isolation. On its own it won't improve anything in the long-term.

this is exactly the problem, how many times have we seen news stories of 'single mother and her kids living in a car in x middle class south dublin suburb' when the real story is she was offered a house in kilcock or swords or rathcoole and unlike people who have to pay for their own homes, these ones have the audacity to waste tax payers money on hotel rooms because they feel entitled to live in the most desirable postcodes in Ireland.

Donal55

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not unless his Part 4 tenancy is up or unless under a specific set of circumstances (selling the property, extensive refurbishment etc)

Just use those excuses that are becoming more and more obvious.
'I need the house for my daughter.'
'I'm selling the house'.

Skommando

Rules and regulations are all very well on paper and for a media soundbite on a Tuesday evening, but who's going to enforce them ?

In the vast majority of tenancies, none of the other statutory regulations in the rental market are ever enforced.

PraxisPete

I've been in my place paying under market value for 6 years. We got a bit of a rent increase but not much when the 2 year freeze came in. This is great news for me and gives me some stability. I don't believe our landlord wants to raise our rent and I think the nominal increase last year was down to the estate agent but I was dreading when the 2 years is up and I could get a €200 or even €400 rent increase and have nowhere to go.

senordingdong

Eric Cartman wrote: »

this is exactly the problem, how many times have we seen news stories of 'single mother and her kids living in a car in x middle class south dublin suburb' when the real story is she was offered a house in kilcock or swords or rathcoole and unlike people who have to pay for their own homes, these ones have the audacity to waste tax payers money on hotel rooms because they feel entitled to live in the most desirable postcodes in Ireland.

Yes, at the risk of being hung, drawn and quartered, I agree.
But the govt. hasdlld the opportunity to remedy this by removing, or moving to the back of the list, anybody who declined an offer.
But that's not an empathic enough solution.

Eric Cartman

senordingdong wrote: »

Yes, at the risk of being hung, drawn and quartered, I agree.
But the govt. hasdlld the opportunity to remedy this by removing, or moving to the back of the list, anybody who declined an offer.
But that's not an empathic enough solution.

anyone who declined should go to the back of the list, this business about a free house being in a bad area or no garden for a trampoline is absolute madness.

Sarn

Fian wrote: »

The proposal is explicit in referring to 4% per annum - so yes your first increase can be 8% - 2 years (+90 days notice) after the last rent increase.

The minister, on RTE news, just pointed out that people coming to the end of the current two year rent freeze will only have up to a 4% increase.

Sleeper12

Lol

April 73

When is this coming into affect?

I'm pretty upset by this proposal. I lowered rents when the market dictated. I'm now about €400 a month below market rent as the last review was Nov 2014 & was hoping to review the rent this month for an increase in March. Not by €400 I hasten to add.
Am I now only allowed an 8% increase?
This is tough luck on landlords in a declining rental market & tough luck again in a rising market.
Will this also apply to REITs?

April 73

Does the proposal not have to be voted into law?

PraxisPete

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Absolutely. If theyve not upped it since November 2015, they could easily up it 10% today.

Surely they can't up it until November 17 or did the two year freeze only come in in December?

titan18

Great, more rules to make landlords leave the market. Such utterly stupid proposals IMO. Setting a static rate is ridiculous, could at least have cost of living increase + a percentage. I really don't know why you'd be a landlord in Ireland

Donal55

April 73 wrote: »

Does the proposal not have to be voted into law?

All set for next week if the FG/FF govt can iron out some small details!

flowerific

I can see a lot of LL currently charging under the market rent, Refurbishing their properties. A lick of Magnolia paint a few minor improvements etc.

tommyb123

Hey folks. So we got a letter from the estate agents last week telling us our rent will be going up by 300euro a month in March. We moved in in feb 2015. Because the rent review was already carried out does this mean we will not be covered under this new legislation?

Donal55

Sarn wrote: »

The minister, on RTE news, just pointed out that people coming to the end of the current two year rent freeze will only have up to a 4% increase.

No guarantee its 4% either. FF were on newstalk earlier and they appear happy with a figure thats lower.
Damian English wouldn't refute that there could be room for negotiation either.

Yourself isit

Eric Cartman wrote: »

only, if you run a normal self employed business, your expenses are covered before tax, on 1600 of rent you get to keep 800 and still have to pay a 900+ mortgage.

Eh. 50% would only apply if it was a second income. And landlords can deduct expenses.

Sarn

tommyb123 wrote: »

Hey folks. So we got a letter from the estate agents last week telling us our rent will be going up by 300euro a month in March. We moved in in feb 2015. Because the rent review was already carried out does this mean we will not be covered under this new legislation?

There is an interpretation that the 90 day review cannot happen until the anniversary of the start of the tenancy i.e. 2 years + 90 days. Would be worth checking out.

JoeCole26

Donal55 wrote: »

Or the landlord could just turf you out when your lease is up and get in a new tenant on 1500 per month for the next few year with 4% increases!

My landlord is one of the REIT, so doubt they would be up to something like this, well, I hope not anyway.

Saadyst

JoeCole26 wrote: »

So for example, im in an apartment now paying €1,325pm, and lease is up start of Feb. Most they can increase the rent to for the next year is €1,378? If thats the case im delighted with that, gives me a chance to continue to save towards a mortgage when the supply is out there in hopefully 2/3 years without the fear of the landlord putting the rent up to whatever they feel like. Definitely a good move imo.

I'm in a very similar scenario - LL wants to increase rent by 16% from start of Feb. They had sent me an email to this effect but nothing signed.

Can I go back and say that the maximum is now 8%?

MayBea

Yourself isit wrote: »

Eh. 50% would only apply if it was a second income. And landlords can deduct expenses.

Well the current legislation does not consider the situation where a couple with kids rent their 2-bed apartment, so they themselves can rent a 3-bed house.
Hypothetically, if they rent it for 1600, they get approx. 800 after tax. However, their mortgage payments are 1400 and they're renting a 3-bed for 1800. So, not only they are topping up their "rental income" by 600 to cover the mortgage payments, they're spending another 1800 to rent somewhere else and this does not count as an expense.

tommyb123

Im reading up on that on threshold. it says "In most situations rent reviews can only take place if it has been 24 months or more since the last review.". Wonder what that means. In what situations does this not apply? If it is correct does that mean when the two years are up you will get the first three months at the increase at your old rate. ie i we moved in in feb 2015 so the review can only happen from Feb 2017 and the rent can only increase after 90 days from that date? So disregarding the new legislation we should not be getting a rent increase until May!!!

murphaph

This also means that a landlord who might previously have let increases slide will always apply the max increase every year.

Kapips88

Has the length of the part 4 gone to 6 years too?

Soon to be endless?

Selik

What will be the definition of "renovations" here exactly in order for a property to quality as a new let not tied to the 3 year rule?

Sad Professor

Kapips88 wrote: »

Has the length of the part 4 gone to 6 years too?

Soon to be endless?

Yes, but won't make much difference. Most landlords use the selling or moving in excuse to get rid of tenants.

pillphil

ted1 wrote: »

They need to tackle bad tenants aswell. If a tenant falls to pay rent they should be immediately giving the boot. None of this over staying rubbish. If they are anti social they should be giving the boot.

Non-Payment of Rent – Effective Termination Procedures
Where a tenant does not pay rent and adhere to a Determination Order there can be serious consequences for a landlord, with the most extreme being that landlord loses the property due to an inability to maintain their mortgage payments. The length of time it can take for an eviction order to be enforced in the courts can result in a landlord not receiving any rent for a dwelling for a considerable period of time. Special measures will be introduced to deal with the specific challenge of enforcement in the instances of non-payment of rent. Changes to RTB procedures will be introduced to reduce the time taken to repossess a property in such circumstances. Subject to consultation with stakeholders, the proposed changes are as follows:

A fast track process will be introduced to enable landlords to regain possession quickly where the non-payment of rent constitutes the grounds for termination;

To avail of the new procedure, the landlord must have served a valid Notice of Termination for non-payment of rent and have lodged a dispute with the RTB seeking an order that the tenant comply with the Notice of Termination;

Where the RTB makes an order directing a tenant to vacate a dwelling and the tenant does not comply with that order and continues not to pay rent, the new procedure will provide for an emergency application to be made to the District Court to enforce the order; and

The decision as to whether an emergency application should be made to court will be made by the RTB having considered the circumstances of the case, including the amount of rent arrears and the length of time for which rent has not been paid.

text

Baby01032012

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yes, but won't make much difference. Most landlords use the selling or moving in excuse to get rid of tenants.

The thing with the selling or moving in, landlord has to make a signed statement in front of solicitor to that effect.

The_Conductor

Baby01032012 wrote: »

The thing with the selling or moving in, landlord has to make a signed statement in front of solicitor to that effect.

Since when?
Even if you did make a statement in front of a solicitor- its a statement of intent, nothing more, nothing less- a landlord could make such a statement in front of a solicitor- and then either through a change in circumstances, or whatever- go and do something else altogether..........

Sigh- it genuinely sounds like they are desperately trying to get landlords to leave the sector- perhaps its an attempt to bring more properties onto the market for sale? One way or the other- I don't see how this benefits either landlords or tenants.

4ensic15

The_Conductor wrote: »

Since when?
s.

Since the 2015 Act came into force. Or at least when the relevant section of it did.

boundlessSea

Rent controls like this will just discourage people from renting out accommodation.

To stop the rate of increase of rent for accommodation, the government need to allow higher buildings in designated areas, review how planning is done and if necessary centralise it more temporarily to increase the number of planning applications granted, ensure that tax on any income including rent from rental properties does not exceed 40%, reduce level of rent control, ensure that the vast majority of cases in which tenants stop paying rent are resolved within 3 months, make it easier to evict anti social tenants, and to not bind owners of property to renting to a tenant for many years.

In return for these gains landlords should be obligated to keep property to higher standard.

Donal55

boundlessSea wrote: »

Rent controls like this will just discourage people from renting out accommodation.

To stop the rate of increase of rent for accommodation, the government need to allow higher buildings in designated areas, review how planning is done and if necessary centralise it more temporarily to increase the number of planning applications granted, ensure that tax on any income including rent from rental properties does not exceed 40%, reduce level of rent control, ensure that the vast majority of cases in which tenants stop paying rent are resolved within 3 months, make it easier to evict anti social tenants, and to not bind owners of property to renting to a tenant for many years.

In return for these gains landlords should be obligated to keep property to higher standard.

You're looking for an awful lot in return for looking after your own property?