Off all Alcohol for 3 months - still have small beer gut

The Waco Kid

Hi guys

Been on the dry since 29th August without any exceptions - prior to that I'd have probably had 2 good sessions a week (2 x 8 pints) for a number of years.

I'm 32, 6'2, currently weigh 13st 10lbs.

Diet isn't the worst - usual have a low fat yoghurt and banana for breakfast, 4 cups of coffee throughout the day, some scrambled egg and banana for lunch and probably a chicken fillet and some potatoes for dinner. Snack wise, I enjoy a bowl of corn flakes most evenings or a bag of popcorn. I'd have 1 takeaway a week, usually treat myself to an Eddie Rockets or a Pizzahut.

As I said, gut isn't really noticeable at all to anyone else but I certainly do notice it and want to shift it.

I had been going the gym 3 times a week up until 2 weeks ago but works been hectic and I've stopped going but certainly want to get back into it. I was doing all cardio (treadmill sprinting for 30 mins and exercise bike for 15).

As I said it's nothing major but I really thought laying off the sauce would have shown results, especially considering my diet isn't the worst.

Any tips appreciated :-)

Zillah

A beer belly isn't just caused by beer, it's caused by too many calories. Having a diet that isn't "the worst" means that you'll have a body that isn't "the worst". Giving up alcohol will help - and especially if you were drinking 8 pints all at once - but you need to eat better overall if you want to be lean. You barely mention fruit or vegetables in your diet, whereas the majority of your diet should be veg, especially your dinner. Stop eating at night, cornflakes are muck.

I'd also do weights at the gym instead of cardio, so that you can gain muscle, so that even if you don't lose weight overall more of your weight will be muscle and not fat.

Mellor

A beer belly is really nothing to do with beer. You probably need to clean up your diet overall. It could be portion sizes rather than the specific food choices

The Waco Kid

Veg has always been my Achilles heel since a child I'm afraid, just never developed a taste for them

Would a smoothie maker help if I was just to blend and drink them even if i dont like the taste?

Mellor

The Waco Kid wrote: »

Veg has always been my Achilles heel since a child I'm afraid, just never developed a taste for them

Which veg did you try and not like? How was it cooked?

When somebody says they hate all veg alarm bells ring. Cauliflower tastes nothing like carrot or cabbage etc. Even cooking method makes a huge difference. A large part of veg-aversion comes down to Irish grannies boiling the life out of everything.

The Waco Kid

I like carrots in an Irish stew, that's about it :-/ And lettuce and potatoes. I like tomatoes but only if they're chopped really finely

Really bad I know

Smoked Tuna

Good idea to count calories, so this may involve the purchase of a weighing scales.

Once you weigh a certain portion you won't need to do it again, assuming you have the same size portion.

You might be eating healthy enough but at maintenance so you won't lose anything.

I lost a heap of weight, without really tracking calories, just eating less, but to stop myself going off the bandwagon I have been tracking recently, and its pretty easy to over consume, which I have been over the past five weeks,

But back on track now, and next step is six pack abs

slicus ricus

The Waco Kid wrote: »

Veg has always been my Achilles heel since a child I'm afraid, just never developed a taste for them

Would a smoothie maker help if I was just to blend and drink them even if i dont like the taste?

I have never been a huge fan of them either, particularly the green ones! No way I could stomach green vegetables on their own with no sauce. You don't have to though - there are creative ways around that - you don't have to eat Chicken and Broccoli 3 times a day to be healthy!!

I have found that there are some vegetables I like when fried in a pan or cooked in a saucepan (healthier of the 2 options) with meat and a nice sauce. I generally chop up some carrot, onion and bell pepper and cook them in a saucepan with chicken or salmon or even just on their own. I also fry some Kale separately and add that in at the end. Adding a tasty, relatively unprocessed sauce at the very end is essential though to make the whole thing taste nice - I tend to go with either pesto, soy sauce or some greek yogurt mixed with a spoonful of sweet chili sauce.

To use the example of a chicken fillet, 2 carrots, a large onion, half a bell pepper, half a bag of Kale, 60g greek yogurt and a spoonful of sweet chilli sauce - You are getting in 470 calories, 11g fats, 53g carbs, 44g protein. You are also getting in plenty of vitamins and Micro Nutrients. I would always add rice also, varying quantities depending on how many calories I'm taking in per day at that time.

Just to reiterate what others have said above, if you want to lose body fat, it is a simple case of taking in less calories (15-20% less is reasonable) than you are using over a consistent period of time. Those calories you take in can be in vegetables, alcohol, cheese burgers, pizza, chicken & broccoli, etc - point is, losing body fat and eating healthy are not mutually exclusive. The only correlation between the two is that it is harder to keep the calories down when eating 'unhealthy' foods, which tend to be very calorie dense.

The 3 keys to losing body fat are:
1) Knowing roughly how many calories you burn per day;
2) Accurately measuring how many calories you are taking in per day (scales, nutritional information on packaging and the internet are essential for this);
3) Having the will power to stick to your calorie deficit consistently over a period of time until you reach your target.
I would also say that it is the weekly average of calorie deficit that is most important.

waffleman

I changed my diet a lot recently
No dairy or sugar and meat only twice a week
Dropped a lot of fat and holding muscle well.
When i say no sugar i mean all sugar (except naturally occuring sugar in fruit, nuts etc.)
No adding sugar, sauces, no juices, no bread

For vegetables i chop them up and cover in boiling water, 3 minutes in microwave, drain and mix with some spice like smoked paprika, cumin, garlic granules or cayenne pepper. Served as a side dish to eat along with a meal.

E.g. 1 tin chickpeas washed and simmered in 2 tblspoons gravy granules. Poured over a plate of wedged potatoes actifried in 2 tblspoons of a good oil (rapeseed, virgin olive, udos choice). Veg in spice on the side.

bladespin

Also quit alcohol in August but only as part of a complete diet overhaul, 40/40/20 plan (as close as I could anyway), dropped nearly 26lbs and down to about 13%bf (very rough calc).

slicus ricus

Have given up the booze as well this year. Not boozing definitely helps with keeping the weight down. When you look at the numbers, it's actually a little bit frightening! There's approximately 238.68 calories in a pint of Heineken - go on a night out where you have 8-10 pints of the stuff, that's 1,909-2,387 calories just from beer! Then add in the chipper or kebab on the way home... I'll leave it at that!!

Obviously the effect on the next day in terms of exercise and nutrition can't be ignored either! Double edged sword really.

Mellor

slicus ricus wrote: »

There's approximately 238.68 calories in a pint of Heineken - go on a night out where you have 8-10 pints of the stuff, that's 1,909-2,387 calories just from beer!.

That's actually not really comparable.
Calories from alcohol and not equal to calories from protein/carbs/fat.

A pint of diesel has 5,000calories. I don't think drinking it would make you overweight.

There's is obvious some usable energy in beer. But not all of it. Some is excreted, and some us used up raising body temp.
Even more complicated, the more you drink in the one sitting the less you use. 1 bottle of beer, you might use most of it. 8 pint session, a lot less than the 1900 cals above.

slicus ricus

Mellor wrote: »

That's actually not really comparable.
Calories from alcohol and not equal to calories from protein/carbs/fat.

A pint of diesel has 5,000calories. I don't think drinking it would make you overweight.

There's is obvious some usable energy in beer. But not all of it. Some is excreted, and some us used up raising body temp.
Even more complicated, the more you drink in the one sitting the less you use. 1 bottle of beer, you might use most of it. 8 pint session, a lot less than the 1900 cals above.

I would think drinking a pint of Diesel would make you dead in fairness!:D

Regarding nutritional value/usable energy, a pint of Heineken has 18.18g of Carbohydrate which equates to 72.73 calories from Carbs. Over the 8-10 pint range, that works out at 145-182g of carbs and 582-727 calories from carbs. The remaining calories come from the alcohol - there are 7 calories in a gram of alcohol which are as such empty calories offering no nutritional value. I'm no expert on the matter but I presume those calories in still count as such in the grand scheme of calories in vs. calories out?

Mellor

slicus ricus wrote: »

The remaining calories come from the alcohol - there are 7 calories in a gram of alcohol which are as such empty calories offering no nutritional value. I'm no expert on the matter but I presume those calories in still count as such in the grand scheme of calories in vs. calories out?

They don't.
Thats the point I was making about. Energy in food is calculated by burning it. Burning alcohol can potentially use energy than we can use internally.

rubadub

Zillah wrote: »

and especially if you were drinking 8 pints all at once.

Is there some medical reason you think this is? or is it just the old "after 8 pints you will hit the chipper" idea?

Alcohol is meant to have less effects on heavy drinkers, so I would have guessed lots in one session would have less effect weight wise. As a heavy drinker myself I know the calories have little effect on me, but the alcohol may effect food choices while drunk. I know several heavy drinkers who are pretty thin. If the 3500kcal = 1lb fat gain "rule" was true the likes of Shane MacGowan would be gigantic.

slicus ricus wrote: »

I would think drinking a pint of Diesel would make you dead in fairness!:D

In an old thread I was using a similar example to a guy who point blank refused to believe there was any difference, small amounts of petrol, say 200kcal will not actually kill you and he was convinced it would have the exact same effect on fat/weight gain as eating 200kcal of sweets if drinking this daily. I gave up at that point! Another harder to refute, and more realistic example, is that 500kcal of unchewed sweetcorn or peanuts will have less effect than eating 500kcal of liquidised sweetcorn or peanut butter. Its a different mechanism as to why its not working but does do away with this "you are defying the laws of physics" nonsense some people come up with.

slicus ricus wrote: »

Regarding nutritional value/usable energy, a pint of Heineken has 18.18g of Carbohydrate which equates to 72.73 calories from Carbs. Over the 8-10 pint range, that works out at 145-182g of carbs and 582-727 calories from carbs.

Where are you getting this info, websites are notoriously bad for incorrect info, so watch out for that. Heineken here is 4.3%, it is only officially that strength in 1 other obscure country, so most figures you see online are for 5%. Even at 5% they can vary recipes for local tastes. Also websites transcribing info often screw it up, so you will see US 355ml figures used for 330ml bottles here, or US pints etc.

I have seen the heineken figures for Irish 4.3% before and it did have relatively high amounts of sugar in it. Pilsner beers are typically brewed out more and so have less residual sugar.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/04/health/why-the-body-may-waste-the-calories-from-alcohol.html

"Perspectives: Do Alcohol Calories Count?"

The answer, he said, is yes and no: yes, for a moderate social drinker who has a cocktail before dinner or an occasional glass of wine or a beer. For these people, alcohol calories can indeed add up. Body Learns to Waste Calories

But chronic heavy drinking can prime certain metabolic processes and, in effect, train the body to waste the seven calories a gram that alcohol ordinarily provides.

For example, weight gain was negligible in alcoholics who were given 2,000 calories of alcohol daily on top of the 2,500 calories from foods they consumed to maintain their weight. But when the same number of additional calories were fed as chocolate, a steady weight gain resulted.

Thus, the energy waste associated with a heavy intake of alcohol cannot be attributed to a reduction in the intake of other foods. More likely, it results from interference with the body's ability to derive energy from other foods.

I did wonder if this applies only to alcos or frequent heavy drinkers. Or if it also applied to say once a month or once every 2 month "8 pint guys", who drink no alcohol otherwise.

slicus ricus

rubadub wrote: »

Where are you getting this info, websites are notoriously bad for incorrect info, so watch out for that. Heineken here is 4.3%, it is only officially that strength in 1 other obscure country, so most figures you see online are for 5%. Even at 5% they can vary recipes for local tastes. Also websites transcribing info often screw it up, so you will see US 355ml figures used for 330ml bottles here, or US pints etc.

Got the figures from Heineken's website (http://www.heineken.com/ie/Nutritional-Values), which quotes values per 100ml. I calculated the conversion to imperial pint myself (568.261ml to 1 Pint). When you click on their website, it asks for country - I am assuming that the nutritional values are for Heineken sold in the country you select (so for Ireland, Heineken 4.3% volume) - although I have no way of being sure of this.

Alf Veedersane

A more relevant point is that he's off the gargle so it doesn't really matter how many calories there are in any given drink.

Mellor

slicus ricus wrote: »

I would think drinking a pint of Diesel would make you dead in fairness!:D

Swap diesel for sawdust then. High energy density. Doesn't make you fat.
High in fibre though.

rubadub wrote: »

I did wonder if this applies only to alcos or frequent heavy drinkers. Or if it also applied to say once a month or once every 2 month "8 pint guys", who drink no alcohol otherwise.

My understanding is that you liver can metabolise a given amount of alcohol. when you drink a lot in one sitting (heavy alco or otherwise) the excess is excreted as acetic acid (yes, we piss out vinegar).

[QUOTE=Ethanol Metabolism]If catabolism of alcohol goes all the way to completion, then, we have a very exothermic event yielding some 1 325 kJ/mol of energy. If the reaction stops part way through the metabolic pathways, which happens because acetic acid is excreted in the urine after drinking, then not nearly as much energy can be derived from alcohol, indeed, only 215.1 kJ/mol. At the very least, the theoretical limits on energy yield are determined to be -215.1 kJ/mol to -1 325.6 kJ/mol.[/QUOTE]

That means that when for the alcohol excreted as acetic acid, we only get 16% of the energy. Depending on the volume of the session, if will fall somewhere in the middle.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

A more relevant point is that he's off the gargle so it doesn't really matter how many calories there are in any given drink.

True.
But its also goo to know that 8 pints every so often isn't the same as 4 BigMac back to back.

rubadub

slicus ricus wrote: »

Got the figures from Heineken's website (http://www.heineken.com/ie/Nutritional-Values), which quotes values per 100ml. I calculated the conversion to imperial pint myself (568.261ml to 1 Pint). When you click on their website, it asks for country - I am assuming that the nutritional values are for Heineken sold in the country you select (so for Ireland, Heineken 4.3% volume) - although I have no way of being sure of this.

I went onto the site and picked Ireland and go these figures

NUTRITIONAL VALUES PER 100ML

ENERGY 176kJ / 42 kcal

FAT 0 g

OF WHICH SATURATES 0 g

CARBOHYDRATES 3,2 g

OF WHICH SUGARS < 0 g

PROTEIN 0 g

netherlands, I got the same, UK same, US same. any random country is the same -with the same URL -so it does not appear to adjust for 4.3% stuff, unless it amazingly matches the others (extremely doubtful)

Bizarrely alcohol makers are still not legally obliged to declare calories OR nutritional info, OR ingredients, like pretty much every one else have to. The mod in the wine & beer forum said this stems from wine producer lobbyists who want to hide the fact they add so much crap to their wine.

Mellor wrote: »

But its also goo to know that 8 pints every so often isn't the same as 4 BigMac back to back.

+1, this is very important, especially if someone has a weekly "cheat" they do. I was so sure of alcohol calories having such low effects I did not really count them when I was losing weight/fat, I steadily lost fat while still drinking a fair amount, and so ingesting calories which would suggest I should not be able to lose fat. If I had knocked the booze on the head and taken in those calories as "cheat" donuts or something I have no doubt it would have had very different results. The effect of being drunk on eating habits will be a factor for many, but if that is the reason for advising against it then people should explicitly state it -some people can resist it. It can help to have lower calorie filling foods about to eat instead, keep the house clear of such foods, or if hitting pubs even bring out foods to snack on after.

Irishcrx

rubadub wrote: »

slicus ricus wrote: »

Got the figures from Heineken's website (http://www.heineken.com/ie/Nutritional-Values), which quotes values per 100ml. I calculated the conversion to imperial pint myself (568.261ml to 1 Pint). When you click on their website, it asks for country - I am assuming that the nutritional values are for Heineken sold in the country you select (so for Ireland, Heineken 4.3% volume) - although I have no way of being sure of this.

I went onto the site and picked Ireland and go these figures

NUTRITIONAL VALUES PER 100ML

ENERGY 176kJ / 42 kcal

FAT 0 g

OF WHICH SATURATES 0 g

CARBOHYDRATES 3,2 g

OF WHICH SUGARS < 0 g

PROTEIN 0 g

netherlands, I got the same, UK same, US same. any random country is the same -with the same URL -so it does not appear to adjust for 4.3% stuff, unless it amazingly matches the others (extremely doubtful)

Bizarrely alcohol makers are still not legally obliged to declare calories OR nutritional info, OR ingredients, like pretty much every one else have to. The mod in the wine & beer forum said this stems from wine producer lobbyists who want to hide the fact they add so much crap to their wine.

Mellor wrote: »

But its also goo to know that 8 pints every so often isn't the same as 4 BigMac back to back.

+1, this is very important, especially if someone has a weekly "cheat" they do. I was so sure of alcohol calories having such low effects I did not really count them when I was losing weight/fat, I steadily lost fat while still drinking a fair amount, and so ingesting calories which would suggest I should not be able to lose fat. If I had knocked the booze on the head and taken in those calories as "cheat" donuts or something I have no doubt it would have had very different results. The effect of being drunk on eating habits will be a factor for many, but if that is the reason for advising against it then people should explicitly state it -some people can resist it. It can help to have lower calorie filling foods about to eat instead, keep the house clear of such foods, or if hitting pubs even bring out foods to snack on after.

I actually tested this theory last year , not on purpose but I'm a really picky eater and was in Spain for a week at a friends wedding and I just couldn't eat properly , I didn't starve but I was probably only taking in 800 - 1000 calories a day in food and the rest was coming from drink , Gin for breakfast , whiskey for lunch , beer for dinner pretty much all week. I didn't count the calories but everyday I was well over maintenance and coming off a bulk.
When I got home I expected to be around the same weight or slightly higher due to the gargle , I was 3 pounds lighter..