Have a large spare room, landlord won't let us rent it out. Lots more like us!

power101

muggles wrote: »

After 6 months a licensee may request to become a tenant with all the rights of a Part 4 tenancy and the landlord may not unreasonably refuse such a request.

No they can't. A licencee does not get part 4 tenancy.

power101

Yourself isit wrote: »

He's also looking for the tax free sublet rent. Hiding behind concern for the situation of other renters.

Or showing that many people may be interested in doing this and that it could open up thousands of new rooms for accommodation which I've repeated several times now.

muggles

power101 wrote: »

No they can't. A licencee does not get part 4 tenancy.

Really?? You might want to take a read of this.

http://www.rtb.ie/media-research/publications/licensees-in-private-rented-accommodation


Chapter 6 of Part 4 contains the rules governing the operation of Part 4 in cases of multiple occupants. In some instances the multiple occupants will all be tenants but in other instances they will be a mixture of tenants and licensees. A tenancy becomes a Part 4 tenancy on the earliest date at which one of the tenants has been in occupation for 6 months. During the existence of a Part 4 tenancy any lawful licensee of the tenant/s may request the landlord to be allowed to become a tenant of the tenancy. The landlord may not unreasonably refuse such a request and must give his/her acceptance in writing. All the rights, restrictions and obligations of a tenant will then apply to the former licensee except that the protection of the Part 4 tenancy will not apply until the former licensee has completed 6 months of continuous occupation counting time spent as a licensee and as a tenant.

power101

Augeo wrote: »

This is the main point for you, lining your pocket using someone else's property.

Really, if it's the main point to me I would have concentrated on that point but I haven't. I could easily say that landlords are lining their own pockets charging the highest rents in Irish history due to the lack of property and accommodation on the market

Tombo2001

Senecio wrote: »

Many landlords don't allow subletting because they are not comfortable to hand over control of who stays in their dwelling to a tenant. I can't blame them.

On this, I was talking to an international student recently looking for accommodation.

She mentioned she was going to see a two bedroom flat with 10 people living in it. And there was no disguising it.....they were quite upfront about it. It was five to a room. And it was a sublet.

Amongst the many other questions one would ask, is if the Landlord was aware of it.

I was talking to another student who said they were answering an ad for a room share, which was actually a bed share. Moving and sharing a bed with a complete stranger.......I said 'ewwww'....to which the student replied she had actually seen an ad for a a 'couch share'.........double ewwww....

Yes there is a rental crisis.

Yes there are good reasons not to do a sublet.

Yes when your LL was letting the place, s/he could have let it to 4 people instead of 2, and s/he would be getting more rent.

No s/he chose not to.

As a matter of interest; if the second room was to be let out, with the entire rental proceeds going to the LL, would you still be in favour? it being to alleviate the accommodation crisis and so on.....

power101

power101 wrote: »

Or showing that many people may be interested in doing this and that it could open up thousands of new rooms for accommodation which I've repeated several times now.

Of course many people are interested in making €500/€600 per month tax free by renting out someone else's property.

Which is why most leases stipulate that you cannot do so, they also stipulated this in the depths of the recession when rents were low.

If you want a houseshare move into one and your current apartment will be freed up for someone else

power101

power101 wrote: »

Really, if it's the main point to me I would have concentrated on that point but I haven't. I could easily say that landlords are lining their own pockets charging the highest rents in Irish history due to the lack of property and accommodation on the market

What is your primary motivation to rent your spare room?

Answer that honestly............ go on.

power101 wrote: »

...I want to be able to rent out my spare room, that's it.

Why?



As a landlord I received very small rent in the recession and did not moan about it. I'll take market rates now, lining my pocket is my aim as a landlord. Much like when I go to work I do it for financial reasons.

Tombo2001

Augeo wrote: »

What is your primary motivation to rent your spare room?
Answer that honestly............ go on.



As a landlord I received very small rent in the recession and did not moan about it. I'll take market rates now, lining my pocket is my aim as a landlord. Much like when I go to work I do it for financial reasons.

OP

You are going on about Landlord greed

And yet your own post seems to be very much about self interest, dressed up opportunistically in the moral glow of 'alleviating the rental crisis'.

Sorry to be blunt.

But you cant give out about Landlords taking an opportunity to make some dough, when you are seeking to do exactly the same.....even more so when you are trying to make some dough
off someone else's capital.

Tombo2001

power101 wrote: »

The point of this thread seems to be getting lost. There are thousands of empty rooms in Dublin and Ireland that with legislation could be filled in a short space of time and could help alleviate the current rental crisis and lack of accommodation. I want to be able to rent out my spare room, that's it.

Its not your spare room......

SteM

power101 wrote: »

Really, if it's the main point to me I would have concentrated on that point but I haven't. I could easily say that landlords are lining their own pockets charging the highest rents in Irish history due to the lack of property and accommodation on the market

Landlords have made an investment and the rent they receive is a return on their investment. You don't like the amount of rent you are paying but you aren't in debt up to your eyeballs with the constant threat of a tenant refusing to pay rent. They may be charging stupid money but many of them aren't actually making a fortune believe it or not.

What you want is for the landlord to increase their risk by allowing another person into the apartment/house (a young person as you keep saying, most landlords try and avoid letting to young people) with zero reward while you take the reward tax free. You say the landlord could have final say on who goes in but again, it's more work for them checking references etc but with no reward for anyone except you.

Michael D Not Higgins

The proposal is a win win for tenants and licensees. They get lower rent and more rental supply.

It is a loss for landlords. They get higher wear and tear, the same rental income, and another Part 4 tenant in 6 months.

Any proposal that would force landlords to accept this will push more of them out of the market. It is not a sustainable way to address the supply and it pushes the balance further towards tenants.

Michael D Not Higgins

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The proposal ...........

Thankfully it's not a proposal as such, merely someone's mutterings on a forum

deepsilent

Good for you to ask your landlord, I'm searching for a flat right now and it's incredible the amount of people subletting or even posting the rooms on airBnB as though it was it was theirs.

Del2005

power101 wrote: »

Really, if it's the main point to me I would have concentrated on that point but I haven't. I could easily say that landlords are lining their own pockets charging the highest rents in Irish history due to the lack of property and accommodation on the market

Landlords are charging high rents and paying up to 50% in tax for the pleasure along with other charges and have absolutely zero support from the RTB if the tenant causes damage or stops paying rent. Yet you want to earn €14k tax free from this persons property. I think someone other than the greedy landlord is looking to line their pockets from the rental crisis.

I can't remember the same amount of concern about landlords lining their pockets with the rental crisis of only a few years ago where everyone was demanding thousands off their rent as there was an oversupply of rental property.

Mrs OBumble

muggles wrote: »

After 6 months a licensee may request to become a tenant with all the rights of a Part 4 tenancy and the landlord may not unreasonably refuse such a request.

But many don't do so, because they don't want to be jointly and individually liable for the entire rent.

OP has a fair point. IMHO the head tenant is the one taking more risk, because they have to live with the licensee and fix any damage they did .

Tombo2001

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But many don't do so, because they don't want to be jointly and individually liable for the entire rent.

OP has a fair point. IMHO the head tenant is the one taking more risk, because they have to live with the licensee and fix any damage they did .

So they don't own the property, they get tax free income out of the property that they haven't paid a penny for; and the only 'risk' to them is the unlikely event of material damage being caused by the sub-lessee, which they themselves vet.....

And the risk is to them.....of course it is.

But risk versus reward is how you evaluate a proposition; and the reward massively outweighs the risk.

cerastes

muggles wrote: »

Really?? You might want to take a read of this.

http://www.rtb.ie/media-research/publications/licensees-in-private-rented-accommodation


Chapter 6 of Part 4 contains the rules governing the operation of Part 4 in cases of multiple occupants. In some instances the multiple occupants will all be tenants but in other instances they will be a mixture of tenants and licensees. A tenancy becomes a Part 4 tenancy on the earliest date at which one of the tenants has been in occupation for 6 months. During the existence of a Part 4 tenancy any lawful licensee of the tenant/s may request the landlord to be allowed to become a tenant of the tenancy. The landlord may not unreasonably refuse such a request and must give his/her acceptance in writing. All the rights, restrictions and obligations of a tenant will then apply to the former licensee except that the protection of the Part 4 tenancy will not apply until the former licensee has completed 6 months of continuous occupation counting time spent as a licensee and as a tenant.

That's assuming the landlord knows about the subletting, also from reading what the op is saying they don't seem to want to pull a miss firmo and make money, just reduce their costs by spreading that with someone else, and in the situation they describe they would be liable for any damage or consequences as a result of a subletting, especially without permission.
The landlord if discovering this would only be able to ask them to terminate the unapproved subletting, which they would have to comply with or they could be subject to the start of a termination notice themselves.
The main reasons a landlord might not want a subletting is that they have set the rent accordingly for those present and may consider it should be higher for additional people and because less people should mean less wear and tear, I'd suggest the op enquires off their landlord for permission.

murphaph

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Subletting on the fly is happening without the LL knowing in many cases anyway I would imagine.

I'd say it's rife (though it's not sub-letting, that's when you vacate yourself and let the entire) with the current rates. Doesn't make it right though, if the lease forbids it. If a tenant broke a lease like this with me I'd evict.

A head tenant letting the spare room to a licencee should be common, but it's already hard enough for landlords to evict their own tenants, never mind their tenants' tenants. Landlords simply do not feel comfortable with the idea generally. Again it goes back to poor regulation of the sector.