Russian and alt-right Interference in democracies.

rossie1977

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

That's a fair line of questioning and those questions should be answered properly but I suspect there was no foul play. Although saying he lied is somewhat wrong imo

He lied under oath. Even if there is no foul play that's perjury.

Jeff sessions himself on C-SPAN in 1999 said about Bill Clinton lying under oath:

"I know and believe very deeply in the rule of law and the fact that honest testimony is required if we're going to have justice in America.

The fact is we are dealing and wrestling with allegations that suggest perjury or obstruction of justice. The President should be given a full opportunity to respond to that but fundamentally we are going to have to wrestle with that and that issue will not go away!

I believe there is such a thing as truth. I believe there is right and wrong. I believe our universe is ordered that way and when we lie people are hurt. It's always so and always will be so. The means are on the justice system to have untruths spoken and I think that's the thing most troubling about this whole entire affair and I hope we are not lowering the bar with regard to high standards of honesty and integrity demanded of public officials. People see things differently just because what party you belong to. I am concerned about a President under oath being alleged to have committed perjury."

Count Dooku

rossie1977 wrote: »

He lied under oath.

Only according to fakenews
What he said is
“I have not met with any Russians at any time to discuss any political campaign and those remarks are unbelievable to me and are false”
Liberal lies based or on shortening his sentence to “I have not met with any Russians at any time" or using imaginary "anonymous sources" to pretend that they know what exactly Session was discussing with Kislyak

demfad

Count Dooku wrote: »

Only according to fakenews
What he said is
“I have not met with any Russians at any time to discuss any political campaign and those remarks are unbelievable to me and are false”
Liberal lies based or on shortening his sentence to “I have not met with any Russians at any time" or using imaginary "anonymous sources" to pretend that they know what exactly Session was discussing with Kislyak

Your claim is demonstrably false.

This is what he said:

“I’m not aware of any of those activities,” he responded. He added: “I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians.”

He said he didn't have communications with Russians when he did. He perjured himself. That is a felony, a crime punishable by up to 5 years in jail.

Labarbapostiza

demfad wrote: »

Is that why Manafort, Page, Flynn and now Sessions are either gone or almost gone due to Russian connections? Trumps team seem to be falling into this hole that the Dems are digging.

Don't be fooled....Irish conservatives are completely aware of what's going on. In Irish conservative ideology, the world is split into those who lie and cheat, and those who are lied to and cheated. In their mentality, the cheats are the superior race and the most deserving.

And they're good at fooling people. They've managed to convince the urban population, the "rural way of life" is worth preserving, where it's the meanest and most parasitic way of life imaginable. A plague of dirty gobbling locusts. Vermin.

KingBrian2

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Don't be fooled....Irish conservatives are completely aware of what's going on. In Irish conservative ideology, the world is split into those who lie and cheat, and those who are lied to and cheated. In their mentality, the cheats are the superior race and the most deserving.

And they're good at fooling people. They've managed to convince the urban population, the "rural way of life" is worth preserving, where it's the meanest and most parasitic way of life imaginable. A plague of dirty gobbling locusts. Vermin.

That's a nice way of calling you fellow citizens. Since when did Irish conservatives hold sway in America. Much of the Bible Belt are god fearing Evangelicals who hold a very passionate belief in the American way of life. They constantly elect the same politicians into office.

Count Dooku

Whole thread looks pathetic after Wikileaks revealed CIA Vault 7
https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

MightyMandarin

Count Dooku wrote: »

Whole thread looks pathetic after Wikileaks revealed CIA Vault 7
https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

Are you going to explain why or just dump a link and a cheap soundbite?

Labarbapostiza

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That's a nice way of calling you fellow citizens.

I apologise....and take back everything I've said. Rural people are lovely, the loveliest people in the world. If they weren't, during my time in Tuam, I would have been tossed into a dying pit. Instead, the nuns raised me with kindness, and the love of the vargin mother. I'm just ungrateful.

##Mod Note##

2 day ban

Count Dooku

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Are you going to explain why or just dump a link and a cheap soundbite?

First, CIA used malware stolen from Russia for False Flag operations

UMBRAGE
The CIA's hand crafted hacking techniques pose a problem for the agency. Each technique it has created forms a "fingerprint" that can be used by forensic investigators to attribute multiple different attacks to the same entity.
This is analogous to finding the same distinctive knife wound on multiple separate murder victims. The unique wounding style creates suspicion that a single murderer is responsible. As soon one murder in the set is solved then the other murders also find likely attribution.
The CIA's Remote Devices Branch's UMBRAGE group collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation.
With UMBRAGE and related projects the CIA cannot only increase its total number of attack types but also misdirect attribution by leaving behind the "fingerprints" of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from.
UMBRAGE components cover keyloggers, password collection, webcam capture, data destruction, persistence, privilege escalation, stealth, anti-virus (PSP) avoidance and survey techniques.

https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/
Second, CIA has 5 test covert 'listening post' servers called 'PocketPutin' for False Flag Attacks
https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_13763491.html#efmBJBBJMBJ9BKIBNbBNmBN1BOBBP8BQHBQaBQmBR7BSGBSYBSk

MightyMandarin

Count Dooku wrote: »

First, CIA used malware stolen from Russia for False Flag operations

https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/
Second, CIA has 5 test covert 'listening post' servers called 'PocketPutin' for False Flag Attacks
https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_13763491.html#efmBJBBJMBJ9BKIBNbBNmBN1BOBBP8BQHBQaBQmBR7BSGBSYBSk

But how does any of that have to do with Russia's interference with the US election and the ever-more-believable conspiracy that Donald and Putin are in cahoots?

Can the two not co-exist, and even then, wikileaks have shown themselves to be, at the very least, biased towards Russia in the past few months anyway. IMO they're slightly above InfoWars and Breitbart in terms of their credibility.

demfad

Interesting article on how 10-15 Social media bots are using techniques to make pro LePen stories trend on French Social media.
These techniques were used in the US and Brexit.
Even with the alt-right and Brertbart/Wikileaks/Kremlin propaganda machine she is falling and failing in the polls.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/marine-le-pen-bots-twitter_us_58bc21c1e4b05cf0f40125d6?

Hank Scorpio

MightyMandarin wrote: »

But how does any of that have to do with Russia's interference with the US election and the ever-more-believable conspiracy that Donald and Putin are in cahoots?

Can the two not co-exist, and even then, wikileaks have shown themselves to be, at the very least, biased towards Russia in the past few months anyway. IMO they're slightly above InfoWars and Breitbart in terms of their credibility.

It was shown how easy it is to create false flags, and if the CIA are doing it you can be fairly sure the Russians are as well. It's far more likely in such a high tech environment, that a false signature be left behind rather than the actual signature of the Russian Government. The CIA have a wing dedicated to that, "UMBRAGE".

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/wikileaks-files-cia-umbrage-hacker-secret-spies-explained-countries-donald-trump-russia-a7618661.html

In essence, there's no possible way to know with complete certainty whether it was the Russians or some other adversity who hacked the DNC. Podesta is a different story, he was dumb enough to fall for a phishing scam. Even going further than that, we don't even know if there was other hackers who hacked the DNC but left no signature, and those were the ones Wikileaks got the DNC emails from, maybe they were hacked 10 others times? Who knows, it's a complete guessing game. Given how easily a phishing scam fooled Podesta/DNC security employees, it wouldn't be surprising.

They key here is that Obama / Clapper have said they had nothing linking Russia to Wikileaks or the handover of the emails.

Why did they refuse four + times to hand their server over to the FBI? That's the real question.

demfad

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

It was shown how easy it is to create false flags, and if the CIA are doing it you can be fairly sure the Russians are as well. It's far more likely in such a high tech environment, that a false signature be left behind rather than the actual signature of the Russian Government. The CIA have a wing dedicated to that, "UMBRAGE".

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/wikileaks-files-cia-umbrage-hacker-secret-spies-explained-countries-donald-trump-russia-a7618661.html

In essence, there's no possible way to know with complete certainty whether it was the Russians or some other adversity who hacked the DNC. Podesta is a different story, he was dumb enough to fall for a phishing scam. Even going further than that, we don't even know if there was other hackers who hacked the DNC but left no signature, and those were the ones Wikileaks got the DNC emails from, maybe they were hacked 10 others times? Who knows, it's a complete guessing game. Given how easily a phishing scam fooled Podesta/DNC security employees, it wouldn't be surprising.

They key here is that Obama / Clapper have said they had nothing linking Russia to Wikileaks or the handover of the emails.

Why did they refuse four + times to hand their server over to the FBI? That's the real question.

The US intel community have established beyond doubt Russia interference in the US government and the fact that Wikileaks is de facto an instrument of the Russian Government.
Currently in the EU we have Germany and France asking The US senate for aid against Russian interference. There have been well over a dozen States who have reported Russian Interference in elections and generally. Recently Ukraine reported almost 6000 cyber attacks in 2 months.

This dump by Wikileaks is a clear attempt to help Trump out of yet another problem of his own creation.

The smoke is getting thicker and it is increasingly likely that Trump and his associates will have to face up to his treasonous crimes.

What will you post then?

Hank Scorpio

demfad wrote: »

The US intel community have established beyond doubt Russia interference in the US government and the fact that Wikileaks is de facto an instrument of the Russian Government.
Currently in the EU we have Germany and France asking The US senate for aid against Russian interference. There have been well over a dozen States who have reported Russian Interference in elections and generally. Recently Ukraine reported almost 6000 cyber attacks in 2 months.

This dump by Wikileaks is a clear attempt to help Trump out of yet another problem of his own creation.

The smoke is getting thicker and it is increasingly likely that Trump and his associates will have to face up to his treasonous crimes.

What will you post then?

They haven't established beyond doubt. They said high certainty in the unclassified reports ( which contained no proof ). They don't even have a connection between Wikileaks and Russia.

Post what, that's there zero proof of any collusion between Russia and Trump? Keep listening to Rachel Madcow and reading the Huffington post.

demfad

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Post what, that's there zero proof of any collusion between Russia and Trump? Keep listening to Rachel Madcow and reading the Huffington post.

Intelligence agencies have corroborated the parts of the Steele dossier confirming intercepted Russian Intelligence/Government conversations discussing the collaboration and conspiracy with Trump. Not random conversations but a consistent pattern as per dossier.
Many Trump associates have had many meetings with Russian Government officials in spite of the fact that it was claimed that none had.
The Head of the NSA General Flynn resigned over discussing sanctions to the Russian Ambassador.
Jeff Sessions lied about talking to the same Russian official under oath.
There are 2 congress investigations, an investigation involving 5 intel agancies, a DOJ investigation into reopening of Clinton case, a Pentagon investigation into Flynn payment for RT.
There are dead bodies: Second at Rosneft murdered in his car fitting description of high level Rosneft contact. One of 4 spies arrested in Moscow for being US agents is missing presumed dead. Trump attorney Michael Cohens brother'd father in Law shot to death in Florida, lived at a TRump tower there. He organised the 'Ukraine peace deal' meet between Cohen, Satter and the Ukrainian politician (now being tried for treason there). He was killed for that.
We have also got Roger Stone admitting he was in communicatiosn with Assange and Guccifer 2.0.
Plenty more circumstantial stuff. It will ALL come out ;-)
Then there is TRump himself claiming that he was wiretapped. That can only mean its for a FISA or a criminal investigation assuming Trump isn't lying.

But keep insisting there is zero evidence: About as believable as the Russians TBH.

Hank Scorpio

There is no evidence of collusion. It's not illegal to talk to the Russians. There was only one candidate in the race with hidden donations from Russia and it isn't Trump.

demfad

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

There is no evidence of collusion. It's not illegal to talk to the Russians. There was only one candidate in the race with hidden donations from Russia and it isn't Trump.

It is illegal to talk to Russians and lie about it under oath surely?
It is illegal to talk to a Russian official undermining US govt policy and then lie about it to the FBI.
It is highly suspicious for a president to make false claims about his predecessor about wiretapping.
If he was wiretapped it was ILLEGAL for him to reveal this evidence publicly.
It is highly suspicious to have scores of communications with Russian officials and then LIE about every single one.
These investigations are happening for a REASON. These MURDERS are happening for a reason.
Stone is talking to Assange and Guccifer 2.0 for a REASON.
The Russians arrested spies directly related to the US election hack for a REASON.
The Steele dossier is having more and more claims verified by US intel for a REASON.
You and I aren't going to SEE hard evidence of collusion yet, but there are plenty of indicators to show that the evidence must exist.
At this stage its delusional to suggest otherwise.

Regarding money from Russia US intel have reportedly intercepted financial transactions and other comms via a Russian pension fund. That would be the method that was being used for Intel and money to pass to the Trump campaign. Even an online search can show connections between Kalugin sharing the same company address as a Trump realtor and a Russian politician. Do you think there will e evidence there? ;-)

What about Agalarov: business partner of Trump (organised Miss Universe 2013) who has worked for the Russian Government. He is incorporated in the US since 2012, in Florida. How do you think Trump will have fared with his contacts with him over the years?

Do you think the oligarchs who met TRump in 2013 will go unnoticed? Some of them on the FBI most wanted list?

But youre right....there is zero evidence under any of this.

Hank Scorpio

I am right, there's no evidence no collusion or hidden donations.

Do you want me to make a list to show you what it looks like? I'll start with HRC, John Podesta and his brother.

You've lost the plot dude, citing murders now.

demfad

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I am right, there's no evidence no collusion or hidden donations.

You are saying there is no evidence of Trump campaigners lying about their ties to Russia. Yes there is.

As I said, I cant supply anyone with actual evidence of collusion I can only show the many many symptoms of collusion that exist.

And I can show that US Intel have leaked that they have such evidence.

Whatever about you stating that no hard evidence has been definitively proven, youre assertion that NO EVIDENCE EXISTS is baseless.

demfad

Moving on: http://europe.newsweek.com/eastern-europe-russia-russian-hacking-senate-lindsey-graham-donald-trump-564993?rm=eu

Diplomats from six Eastern European countries appealed to U.S. senators on Tuesday to help them stand up against interference from Russia, including cyber attacks, and insisted that sanctions imposed on Moscow should not be lifted anytime soon.

The foreign minister of Ukraine as well as the ambassadors to Washington from Poland, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia appeared at a Senate appropriations subcommittee hearing on Russian activity in their countries.


"Until Russia gets off Ukrainian land, there should be no easing up of sanctions. If anything, they should be increased," said Ukraine's Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin.

Other diplomats agreed, describing efforts within their countries and others to lessen their dependence on Russian natural gas for their energy needs.

"We really think about diversification," said Piotr Wilczek, Poland's ambassador to Washington.

Hank Scorpio

demfad wrote: »

You are saying there is no evidence of Trump campaigners lying about their ties to Russia. Yes there is.

As I said, I cant supply anyone with actual evidence of collusion I can only show the many many symptoms of collusion that exist.

And I can show that US Intel have leaked that they have such evidence.

Whatever about you stating that no hard evidence has been definitively proven, youre assertion that NO EVIDENCE EXISTS is baseless.

I'm saying there's no evidence of collusion. Third time now. It's pure desperation when have to bring in murder conspiracies. All it shows is there is no substance.

Going by your rulebook Nancy Pelosi should be prosecuted since she said she never met with the Russia ambassador, when she did, multiple times.

demfad

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I'm saying there's no evidence of collusion. Third time now.

Going by your rulebook Nancy Pelosi should be prosecuted since she said she never met with the Russia ambassador, when she did, multiple times.

If Nancy Pelosi lied to the FBI or under Oath about meeting a Russian Ambassador then she would be guilty of a crime. Not my rule book, the law.
Don't misrepresent me again, please.

A Little Pony

It is funny how the Clinton Foundation has closed now that she lost the election. Pay for play in work, a complete con.

WinnyThePoo

A Little Pony wrote: »

It is funny how the Clinton Foundation has closed now that she lost the election. Pay for play in work, a complete con.

What has that to do with this thread?

demfad

https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/wait-what?utm_term=.qflOXgp8l#.hpbj18YE5

Farage spotted at Ecuadorial embassy on Thursday....
Wont have done the reputation of either man any favours.
We have Russian interference established in the US election aided by Wikileaks/Breitbart etc., same for the French and German elections where wikileaks have dumped twice.
Miraculously it seems the Russians have bypassed Brexit. I think not and I think pressure will grow for an investigation into the same when the Trump Russia investigation gets heavy.
It must have been an important message, and for someone important for Farage to be spotted like that.

PopePalpatine

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

What has that to do with this thread?

Deflection, like every other mention of Hillary whenever Trump's f*ck-ups/dick moves come to light.

Hank Scorpio

The embassy is surrounded by hundreds of cameras, spies, and stories upon stories of Police monitoring it 24/7. A total non story. Even if he did meet Farage, so what?

Calling Breitbart interference is hilarious.

demfad

demfad wrote: »

https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/wait-what?utm_term=.qflOXgp8l#.hpbj18YE5

We have Russian interference established in the US election aided by Wikileaks/Breitbart etc.,

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Calling Breitbart interference is hilarious.

I did ask you politely not to waste my time by misrepresenting me. You are now on my ignore list so I wont see your posts. Easy solution to deflection I guess ;-)

ancapailldorcha

A Little Pony wrote: »

It is funny how the Clinton Foundation has closed now that she lost the election. Pay for play in work, a complete con.

Don't derail the thread.

Hank Scorpio

demfad wrote: »

I did ask you politely not to waste my time by misrepresenting me. You are now on my ignore list so I wont see your posts. Easy solution to deflection I guess ;-)

If you do come back, let me know when you get to the bottom of all those Russian murders, maybe Maddow will figure it out eventually. Genuinely interested.