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Russian and alt-right Interference in democracies.

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    #482
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    I'm saying there's no evidence of collusion. Third time now. It's pure desperation when have to bring in murder conspiracies. All it shows is there is no substance.

    Going by your rulebook Nancy Pelosi should be prosecuted since she said she never met with the Russia ambassador, when she did, multiple times.

    Of course politicans meet with ambassadors all the time, and newly elected transition teams do it all the time. No violation of the logan act there.


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    #483
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Of course politicans meet with ambassadors all the time, and newly elected transition teams do it all the time. No violation of the logan act there.


    "The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799 ) is a United States federal law that details the fine and/or imprisonment of unauthorized citizens who negotiate with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States."

    Discussing easing or removing sanctions with the ambassador of Russia would constitute breaking the Logan Act.

    Lying to congress under oath (Sessions) or to the FBI (Flynn) are also crimes.

    The Trump campaign also stated categorically that there was NO contact with Russian officials during the campaign. They have been forced to admit to several only when proof became incontrovertible.

    All of them seem to have aquired amnesia as to the content of those meetings. It is not in doubt that these lies and amnesia indicate a cover up.
    What they are covering up will soon become evident as the first House Intel hearing is next week.


  • Options
    #484
    tiger55
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭tiger55


    Do people actually believe this BS?  Its not called fake-news for nothing...


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    #485
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    tiger55 wrote: »
    Do people actually believe this BS?  Its not called fake-news for nothing...

    Mod note:

    Please read the charter re: standards of debate before posting again


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    #486
    Here we go
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Here we go


    Iv heard a lot about this and as far as I see someone hacked the D,N,C belived to be the Russians or linked to them and released documents all of which are true and not made up same as the leaked trump tape so armed with true facts people made a choice and voted ??? It seems this is more about the narrative to try blacken trump should all electorates not have access to as much information as possible to decide on who they vote for are the media/D,N,C complaining that the public knew to much and was to informed to vote the way they wanted them ?


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    #487
    Labarbapostiza
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 963 ✭✭✭Labarbapostiza


    Here we go wrote: »
    Iv heard a lot about this and as far as I see someone hacked the D,N,C belived to be the Russians or linked to them and released documents all of which are true and not made up same as the leaked trump tape so armed with true facts people made a choice and voted ???

    Because to the people who voted for Trump, Putin is a hero. They know both Putin and Trump are liars, but they lie for the "good". They fight for the "normal" people.

    There are gays working for Google in Dublin making millions, and we have normal lads, with their names on the sides of vans; names like Jimmy Mulchay, Willie Murphy, Dickie Doran, who haven't made a penny since the Labour party caused the crash.

    Is it fair, when a young lad is struggling with their farm, while we have non-nationals and other different people dancing around without a care in the world as if they own the place, when they're only guests.

    What about the "normal" lads? Putin doesn't have time for misfits in his country, and that's what we need here, a leader with no tolerance for the "different"


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    #488
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    Labarbapostiza wrote: »
    Because to the people who voted for Trump, Putin is a hero. They know both Putin and Trump are liars, but they lie for the "good". They fight for the "normal" people.

    There are gays working for Google in Dublin making millions, and we have normal lads, with their names on the sides of vans; names like Jimmy Mulchay, Willie Murphy, Dickie Doran, who haven't made a penny since the Labour party caused the crash.

    Is it fair, when a young lad is struggling with their farm, while we have non-nationals and other different people dancing around without a care in the world as if they own the place, when they're only guests.

    What about the "normal" lads? Putin doesn't have time for misfits in his country, and that's what we need here, a leader with no tolerance for the "different"

    Hilariously inaccurate, the intel agencies need to show some actual proof. Right now, as far as I'm concerned, Assange and Wikileaks word is greater than anything the US Government perpetuates.


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    #489
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Labarbapostiza wrote: »
    Because to the people who voted for Trump, Putin is a hero. They know both Putin and Trump are liars, but they lie for the "good". They fight for the "normal" people.

    There are gays working for Google in Dublin making millions, and we have normal lads, with their names on the sides of vans; names like Jimmy Mulchay, Willie Murphy, Dickie Doran, who haven't made a penny since the Labour party caused the crash.

    Is it fair, when a young lad is struggling with their farm, while we have non-nationals and other different people dancing around without a care in the world as if they own the place, when they're only guests.

    What about the "normal" lads? Putin doesn't have time for misfits in his country, and that's what we need here, a leader with no tolerance for the "different"

    How do you know that Jimmy, Willie and Dickie aren't gay?


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    #490
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Here we go wrote: »
    Iv heard a lot about this and as far as I see someone hacked the D,N,C belived to be the Russians or linked to them and released documents all of which are true and not made up same as the leaked trump tape so armed with true facts people made a choice and voted ??? It seems this is more about the narrative to try blacken trump should all electorates not have access to as much information as possible to decide on who they vote for are the media/D,N,C complaining that the public knew to much and was to informed to vote the way they wanted them ?

    Both DNC and RNC servers were hacked but only DNC dumps were leaked.

    The DNC dumps were leaked at a time designed to most hurt HRC. Rather than just releasing the leaks, wikileaks influenced by commented and pointing to leaks most likely to damage Clinton in the election.

    If they had released what they had on Trump e.g. Tax returns, connections to Russian criminals, To Chinese, to Iranians, massive debts, dodgy shell companies, compromising conversations etc etc. then HRC would have won the election by the largest landslide ever.

    By having Info on both candidates and releasing only the material on one, in a deliberately damaging way they are guilty of disinformation.

    In recent days proof is starting to emerge of Wikileaks connection to teh Kremlin: e.g servers registered in Moscow a week before first DNC dump.
    Also, Trump aide Roger Stone has admitted having a backchannel to Assange and has also admitted being in touch with (via twitter) the hacker Guccifer 2.0 who purportedly hacked the DNC server.


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    #491
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭Harika


    Wikileaks is now throwing more smokescreens to cover their likely involvement with Trump and Russia by releasing the CIA documents and claiming to be neutral. While if you look closely the CIA hacks basically only says, that there are vulnerabilities in Android, Windows and Apple or that 0-day exploits exist, something that is basically known for 20 years. Hardly proof of anything.


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    #492
    Here we go
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Here we go


    demfad wrote: »
    Both DNC and RNC servers were hacked but only DNC dumps were leaked.

    The DNC dumps were leaked at a time designed to most hurt HRC. Rather than just releasing the leaks, wikileaks influenced by commented and pointing to leaks most likely to damage Clinton in the election.

    If they had released what they had on Trump e.g. Tax returns, connections to Russian criminals, To Chinese, to Iranians, massive debts, dodgy shell companies, compromising conversations etc etc. then HRC would have won the election by the largest landslide ever.

    By having Info on both candidates and releasing only the material on one, in a deliberately damaging way they are guilty of disinformation.

    In recent days proof is starting to emerge of Wikileaks connection to teh Kremlin: e.g servers registered in Moscow a week before first DNC dump.
    Also, Trump aide Roger Stone has admitted having a backchannel to Assange and has also admitted being in touch with (via twitter) the hacker Guccifer 2.0 who purportedly hacked the DNC server.
    B
    But there was huge leaks against trump and media coverage against him highlighting lot of issues much more then issues surrounding Clinton again if they rigged votes spread false info that influend people's votes fair anuff but they didn't and it's not there job or moral obligation to to also do the same to trump i personally think he won on his fiscal policy and will be realected or not on the sucsess or failure of that he gets big us multinationals to repatriate offshore tax it's estimated to be trillions even at discounted tax rate he get to put that into middle america infustrutre programes and he will win electrol collage again no matter how immigration goes it's as true now as always it's the economy stupid


  • Options
    #493
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    This is a great piece by Glenn Greenwald and everyone should read it concerning the monitoring of individuals by the US intelligence agencies.

    https://theintercept.com/2017/03/13/rand-paul-is-right-nsa-routinely-monitors-americans-communications-without-warrants/?comments=1#comments

    "the NSA is empowered to spy on Americans’ communications without a warrant — in direct contravention of the core Fourth Amendment guarantee that “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause” — is the dirty little secret of the U.S. Surveillance State."

    Also seems that another leak is imminent

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/841336608506970113


  • Options
    #494
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Harika wrote: »
    Wikileaks is now throwing more smokescreens to cover their likely involvement with Trump and Russia by releasing the CIA documents and claiming to be neutral. While if you look closely the CIA hacks basically only says, that there are vulnerabilities in Android, Windows and Apple or that 0-day exploits exist, something that is basically known for 20 years. Hardly proof of anything.

    Speaking of smokescreens...
    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    This is a great piece by Glenn Greenwald and everyone should read it concerning the monitoring of individuals by the US intelligence agencies.

    https://theintercept.com/2017/03/13/rand-paul-is-right-nsa-routinely-monitors-americans-communications-without-warrants/?comments=1#comments

    "the NSA is empowered to spy on Americans’ communications without a warrant — in direct contravention of the core Fourth Amendment guarantee that “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause” — is the dirty little secret of the U.S. Surveillance State."

    Also seems that another leak is imminent

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/841336608506970113


  • Options
    #495
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    No smokescreens needed for all the conspiracy theories msnbc are making up. Greenwald is one of the best journalists out there.


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    #496
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    No smokescreens needed for all the conspiracy theories msnbc are making up. Greenwald is one of the best journalists out there.

    But how does your post relate to russian interference?

    Your post tells us that the CIA spy on people. Is that a defence of the russians, a rebuttal, or what?

    On the face of it, it looks like just a distraction.


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    #497
    Labarbapostiza
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 963 ✭✭✭Labarbapostiza


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    How do you know that Jimmy, Willie and Dickie aren't gay?

    And whose fault would it be, if they were gay?

    Vladimir Putin knows what to do. There are laws in Russia against promoting the gay way of life.

    Putin is making the world normal again.


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    #498
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Labarbapostiza wrote: »
    Putin is making the world normal again.

    Mod note:

    Banned. Please dont reply to Labarbapostizas posts


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    #499
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    But how does your post relate to russian interference?

    Your post tells us that the CIA spy on people. Is that a defence of the russians, a rebuttal, or what?

    On the face of it, it looks like just a distraction.

    A distraction from what, that there's zero evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia? Even going further than that, there's zero evidence Wikileaks or Assange worked with Russia. A distraction from an illusion seems like a delusional fight back, and it all came to a crashing end with Maddow the other night.

    Pitiful, but not at all surprising.


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    #500
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    A distraction from what, that there's zero evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia? Even going further than that, there's zero evidence Wikileaks or Assange worked with Russia. A distraction from an illusion seems like a delusional fight back, and it all came to a crashing end with Maddow the other night.

    Pitiful, but not at all surprising.

    You have a rather strange definition of zero.


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    #501
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    Right now, as far as I'm concerned, Assange and Wikileaks word is greater than anything the US Government perpetuates.

    I think right now its fairly obvious that WikiLeaks is just an outlet for Russian intelligence.


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    #502
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    Super obvious, besides the FACT, there's zero evidence of collusion, and there's ZERO evidence of collusion between Wikileaks and Russia, NOTHING.

    Even Clapper and Obama said the same things regarding Wikileaks.

    https://youtu.be/EKx8s8otZ30?t=161


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    #503
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    I think right now its fairly obvious that WikiLeaks is just an outlet for Russian intelligence.

    Why because the liberal media keep pushing it? Assange has more integrity than everyone in all the Governments put together. EVERY document Wikileaks has published has been TRUTH, and for whatever reason people are afraid of that fact. When you can't call fake, you have to attack the messenger delivering it, that's the only line available to disrupting the information. We can't attack the documents integrity, lets attack him, and that's exactly what's been going on.

    He's been accused of being a Russian Agent, a CIA agent, controlled opposition, and whatever else. And on TOP OF THAT, they've released 800k documents damaging to Putin and Russia, the reason you don't see it, is because there's an alternative leak agency which publishes in the Russian language. That's before you go into the Syrian conflict and the books that have been written about their releases, it's all pure ignorance, and honestly, I feel sorry you believe or see it the way you've written.


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    #504
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    Why because the liberal media keep pushing it? Assange has more integrity than everyone in all the Governments put together. EVERY document Wikileaks has published has been TRUTH, and for whatever reason people are afraid of that fact. When you can't call fake, you have to attack the messenger delivering it, that's the only line available to disrupting the information. We can't attack the documents integrity, lets attack him, and that's exactly what's been going on.

    He's been accused of being a Russian Agent, a CIA agent, controlled opposition, and whatever else. And on TOP OF THAT, they've released 800k documents damaging to Putin and Russia, the reason you don't see it, is because there's an alternative leak agency which publishes in the Russian language. That's before you go into the Syrian conflict and the books that have been written about their releases, it's all pure ignorance, and honestly, I feel sorry you believe or see it the way you've written.

    Where did you get this information?


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    #505
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Where did you get this information?
    Just in case if you banned in Google
    Russian paper to air WikiLeaks corruption material - Reuters
    WikiLeaks partners with Russian paper for Kremlin corruption dump - Foreign Policy


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    #506
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭Harika


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Just in case if you banned in Google
    Russian paper to air WikiLeaks corruption material - Reuters
    WikiLeaks partners with Russian paper for Kremlin corruption dump - Foreign Policy

    That was seven years ago, months after that the sex allegations started and even later he hide in the embassy. Since at least a year wikileaks didn't report anything about Russia. And if you see how quickly Putin brushed the dead pilot downed by Turkey away, I don't see why he wouldn't use wikileaks for his advantage. Russia today was btw the first news outlet to report about upcoming wl releases.


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    #507
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Just in case if you banned in Google
    Russian paper to air WikiLeaks corruption material - Reuters
    WikiLeaks partners with Russian paper for Kremlin corruption dump - Foreign Policy

    If you read your links, you will realise that they are meaningless and do not answer the question.


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    #508
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    Harika wrote: »
    That was seven years ago, months after that the sex allegations started and even later he hide in the embassy. Since at least a year wikileaks didn't report anything about Russia. And if you see how quickly Putin brushed the dead pilot downed by Turkey away, I don't see why he wouldn't use wikileaks for his advantage. Russia today was btw the first news outlet to report about upcoming wl releases.
    Why Assange should join countless choir of Western media which blame Putin in everything in order to distract attention from failures of liberalism?
    He would be just from thousands journalists who are trying to present Putin as monster using aliens weapons in Syria and growing giant squids to eat US submarines.
    Assange wanted to remind world what happens to whistleblowers in US and it is not his fault that liberal media decided to keep silence about wikileaks revelations


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    #509
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭Harika


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Why Assange should join countless choir of Western media which blame Putin in everything in order to distract attention from failures of liberalism?
    He would be just from thousands journalists who are trying to present Putin as monster using aliens weapons in Syria and growing giant squids to eat US submarines.
    Assange wanted to remind world what happens to whistleblowers in US and it is not his fault that liberal media decided to keep silence about wikileaks revelations

    Wikileaks is an international non-profit organisation that publishes secret information, news leaks, and classified media from anonymous sources. Since a year, you cannot avoid the impression that they are actively making politics and trying especially to influence US politics. According to their ethos they are neutral and release everything, but you wonder if they really do, and if there sources are not Russian intelligence agencies. There might be a reason why e.g. the Panama papers, even when only tidbits for Putin and his friends were found, were not forwarded to WL and instead given to credible news outlets.


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    #510
    Feckoffcup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭Feckoffcup


    Is there any evidence of this "interference"? Seems like propaganda to me


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    #511
    Kitsunegari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Kitsunegari


    Feckoffcup wrote: »
    Is there any evidence of this "interference"? Seems like propaganda to me

    I don't think they can definitely prove it and besides they aren't interfering anymore than the US and the CIA are. The Democrats are appalled that they got caught out thanks to Russians hacking the DNC server and Wikileaks releasing the information. Now everyone is panicking about cyber security and rightly so considering the impact the releases had on Clinton's election. These hackers wouldn't be an issue if the Democrats acted appropriately.


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