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Can a tenant initiate a rent review?

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    #32
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,120 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Graham wrote: »
    Link?

    I've never come across the case where the RTA has been used to force a rent to track the market rates between rent reviews. Would be interested in seeing how it would work.


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/19/enacted/en/html#sec19


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    #33
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    KCross wrote: »
    Why dont you agree if its in the legislation in black and white?
    You cant say its not true just because you havent heard of it.

    Look, simple fact is there are 100's of pages of legislation everywhere on any subject you want to quote. They literally aren't worth the paper their written on unless enforced. This has never been enforced. I'm not saying it won't in the future but up to now it hasn't been.

    Look it's no skin of my nose or in fact any LL's or tenants nose because reality is that it won't happen until the market takes a nose dive.


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    #34
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    KCross wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/19/enacted/en/html#sec19

    You keep quoting the same section of the act. That's not what Graham asked.


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    #35
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Mod note

    This is derailing the thread, please stop the to and fro, it is off putting to other posters who may want to contribute. Thanks


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    #36
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    KCross wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/19/enacted/en/html#sec19
    19.—(1) In setting, at any particular time, the rent under the tenancy of a dwelling, an amount of rent shall not be provided for that is greater than the amount of the market rent for that tenancy at that time.

    (2) The reference in this section to the setting of the rent under a tenancy is a reference to—

    (a) the initial setting of the rent under the tenancy, and

    (b) any subsequent setting of the rent under the tenancy by way of a review of that rent.

    There's nothing in that section that suggests market rent should be considered between the "setting of the rent" i.e. initially and at rent review time.


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    #37
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,120 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    pilly wrote: »
    You keep quoting the same section of the act. That's not what Graham asked.

    Well what did Graham ask for then?
    He said "Link?". I provided the one relating to that part of the act that we are talking about?

    Dont shoot the messenger here guys.

    I dont know how enforceable it is but the RTB are supposed to uphold the act. Thats their job. it seems clear to me that a reduction is possible in the context of what the OP asked. You havent put any arguments forward other than "I've never heard of it"

    @Graham, I agree its not possible to reduce rent between reviews. It can only happen on initial setting or at rent review time. The OP asked if the rent could be force reduced after 2yrs at rent review time. That seems possible(but unlikely in current market) based on the RTA.


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    #38
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    KCross wrote: »
    The OP asked if the rent could be force reduced after 2yrs at rent review time. That seems possible(but unlikely in current market) based on the RTA.

    Thanks, I missed the 'at rent review time' bit :o

    It might not be in the tenants interest to initiate a rent review at the moment, it's quite likely this would result in an increase in rent.

    On the other hand, a rent review now would lock out potentially larger increases in the next 2 years. Something I wouldn't rule out given the upward trajectory of rents in the county.


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    #39
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Graham wrote: »
    There's nothing in that section that suggests market rent should be considered between the "setting of the rent" i.e. initially and at rent review time.

    Section 21 or 22 says either the landlord or the tenant can initiate a rent review.

    Section 19 says that rent cannot be set above market rate.

    Section 19 also says that a rent review is considered setting a new rent.

    Therefore a tenant can initiate a rent review after which the rent cannot be above market rate.

    At least this is my theoretical understanding of the argument. I doubt that this has been enforced at any stage on this line of thinking.


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    #40
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Graham wrote: »
    There's nothing in that section that suggests market rent should be considered between the "setting of the rent" i.e. initially and at rent review time.

    Section 21 or 22 says either the landlord or the tenant can initiate a rent review.

    Section 19 says that rent cannot be set above market rate.

    Section 19 also says that a rent review is considered setting a new rent.

    Therefore a tenant can initiate a rent review after which the rent cannot be above market rate.

    At least this is my theoretical understanding of the argument. I doubt that this has been enforced at any stage on this line of thinking.
    Thats why I asked. I would presume that, if the Tenant can prove that the rents in the area (on for this specific very rural area (really - middle of no where) this is true - are dropping, they should be able to initiate a rent review at the 2 year mark - just like the landlord. It seems like a logic step. Glad to see there seems to be some legislation to back this up.


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    #41
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,120 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    Thats why I asked. I would presume that, if the Tenant can prove that the rents in the area (on for this specific very rural area (really - middle of no where) this is true - are dropping, they should be able to initiate a rent review at the 2 year mark - just like the landlord. It seems like a logic step. Glad to see there seems to be some legislation to back this up.

    The issue really is proving the "market rate" is indeed 20% lower.

    It will require multiple recent examples for comparable property. You mentioned "middle of no where" so enough examples might not be there to prove it. Anecdotal evidence or examples from another town/village wont cut it.

    As others have said, your friend would want to be very confident of their examples before they go to the LL.


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    #42
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    Thats why I asked. I would presume that, if the Tenant can prove that the rents in the area (on for this specific very rural area (really - middle of no where) this is true - are dropping, they should be able to initiate a rent review at the 2 year mark - just like the landlord. It seems like a logic step. Glad to see there seems to be some legislation to back this up.

    While an interesting legal discussion has been had here in practicality remember the landlord can decide he will take the market rent by seeking to get another tenant in.


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