Buyer Beware! Know what you're bidding on (negative equity house)

Lumen

jjoy80 wrote: »

This has scared the life out of me because I do not know. Is this true? Can they trap us like this? Surely if they can't close we can walk away. They sent contracts out to our solicitor and sale was to close this week. My solicitor has now written back and told them they have til mid January to sort it out. EA won't return calls. We don't know what's going on.

Marcusm wrote: »

If you have yet to sign or return the contracts then you are not bound in any way.

In the OP:

jjoy80 wrote: »

So we were really on top of things appointed a solicitor engineer valuer got the insurances in place, paid the deposits, signed the contracts, paid our solicitor, due to close in a couple of days...

Marcusm wrote: »

Usually when contracts are signed an estimated completion date is set. If it is met, I believe there is a time period (4 or 6 weeks) which must elapse before you can demand completion. If the vendors fail to complete in such circumstances you might have a claim for compensation for breach of contract. This is all the stuff you should be discussing with your solicitor.

Agreed.

I did hear of a story where the buyer's solicitor didn't put any dates in the contract and they were forced to wait more than six months for the sale to go through.

Steodonn

https://www.landdirect.ie/index.html

Check what was registered against the house ( costs a 5er ), it not being there dosent mean theres noting against the house but if its all there you could be looking at suing the EA or lawyer for not doing their jobs. I have to do due diligence mostly for money laundering ( well not on my own yet just a student ) and Id be laughed at if I said " well my client said he wasn't". Im not sure what due diligence actually entails here but at minimum Id check the charges against the house on the property register

jjoy80

Steodonn wrote: »

https://www.landdirect.ie/index.html

Check what was registered against the house ( costs a 5er ), it not being there dosent mean theres noting against the house but if its all there you could be looking at suing the EA or lawyer for not doing their jobs. I have to do due diligence mostly for money laundering ( well not on my own yet just a student ) and Id be laughed at if I said " well my client said he wasn't". Im not sure what due diligence actually entails here but at minimum Id check the charges against the house on the property register

Hi, yeah I paid for this the other night. All it shows is the ptsb mortgage but not the amount it whether or not it is in arrears. Nobody taking any liability. His solicitors issued ours with contracts stating that the funds were to be used to discharge the current ptsb mortgage. Then they wrote a letter a few weeks later saying they now knew there was a residual balance but that their clients would be lodging the money to clear it. So on the basis that their solicitoe advised their clients were lodging funds to clear the mortgage our solicitor let us sign contracts.

The latest on it is that their solicitor has now written back and effectively said that they have received no further instruction from their clients with regards to lodging the funds or obtaining a consent to sell from the bank...but has said on the qt (verbally/off the record call it way you want) that his clients don't want to pay the residual...and that no contract will be deemed in existence until such a time as contracts have been executed by both parties.


It's hard to know who has made a mess of this! Obviously the vendors for their dishonesty, but how could their solicitors issue contracts on a house that couldn't be sold...and then send further assurances...and don't how could ours let us sign! I don't understand! I've tried to contact ptsb directly but they won't give any information. Anyway, seeing as their solicitor has now said there's no contract in place I take it we can get our money back.

So annoying!!!!!!! This could happen to anyone!! Be careful!!

Marcusm

Steodonn wrote: »

https://www.landdirect.ie/index.html

Check what was registered against the house ( costs a 5er ), it not being there dosent mean theres noting against the house but if its all there you could be looking at suing the EA or lawyer for not doing their jobs. I have to do due diligence mostly for money laundering ( well not on my own yet just a student ) and Id be laughed at if I said " well my client said he wasn't". Im not sure what due diligence actually entails here but at minimum Id check the charges against the house on the property register

While you are well intentioned, the existence of the mortgage charge is of limited interest as the register will not note the current level of indebtedness which could easily exceed the original amount. The appropriate procedure is for the purchaser's solicitor to obtain confirmation from the vendor's solicitor that there are no external impediments or conditionalities to completion of the sale.

jjoy80

Lumen wrote: »

In the OP:





Agreed.

I did hear of a story where the buyer's solicitor didn't put any dates in the contract and they were forced to wait more than six months for the sale to go through.

Thanks. I checked. When their solicitor issued the contracts to ours they gave a closing date 4 weeks from the date of issue.

Casa2

jjoy80 wrote: »

Thanks. I checked. When their solicitor issued the contracts to ours they gave a closing date 4 weeks from the date of issue.

Hi jjoy80,

Are you serving the Seller with the 28 notice of completion? I am thing about that but I am not getting the money back until I find another property anyway.

Pending

What a nightmare! Were the contracts signed "subject to bank consent"?

I've been involved in a similar situation, going on since early summer. In our case the EA (local guy, decent) genuinely didn't know the bank were involved until we were well into the whole thing. And the vendor was in negotiations regarding several properties and a company liquidation, so it was all very complex. Actually on the very first viewing I asked if it was a bank sale as I was looking for a quick sale, and he said no. If I'd known at the start I wouldn't have even gone back for a second look, but by the time we became aware we were attached to the house and not keen to walk away. We have been looking around in the meantime, but there's nothing else even close to what we want in our price range. So we held on and hoped.

For us it took months to get contracts issued as we were waiting for the consent letter from the bank. Our solicitor said there was no point signing contracts subject to bank consent, so we didn't even have contracts signed.

Finally, this week it will either happen quickly or all fall apart... There's some dodgy accounting going on from the vendors side and the contracts are not as they should be, so my solicitor is suggesting I should consider pulling out. But after all we've gone through, all I want to do is close and get the keys!

Casa2

Pending wrote: »

What a nightmare! Were the contracts signed "subject to bank consent"?

I've been involved in a similar situation, going on since early summer. In our case the EA (local guy, decent) genuinely didn't know the bank were involved until we were well into the whole thing. And the vendor was in negotiations regarding several properties and a company liquidation, so it was all very complex. Actually on the very first viewing I asked if it was a bank sale as I was looking for a quick sale, and he said no. If I'd known at the start I wouldn't have even gone back for a second look, but by the time we became aware we were attached to the house and not keen to walk away. We have been looking around in the meantime, but there's nothing else even close to what we want in our price range. So we held on and hoped.

For us it took months to get contracts issued as we were waiting for the consent letter from the bank. Our solicitor said there was no point signing contracts subject to bank consent, so we didn't even have contracts signed.

Finally, this week it will either happen quickly or all fall apart... There's some dodgy accounting going on from the vendors side and the contracts are not as they should be, so my solicitor is suggesting I should consider pulling out. But after all we've gone through, all I want to do is close and get the keys!

That is really not fair. We have worked so hard to get here and than get stuck. Well I have signed the contract it seems that the problem for us are the other properties that he has to have the consent from Ulster Bank. I am in this mess since June and now our letter of approval will expire and I also don't want to pull out as we cannot find anything better. How long are you waiting for?

jjoy80

So I cancelled the house insurances and returned items to ikea, viewed other properties and even bid on one. Went to reapply for a higher mortgage in case we needed it. In a last ditch effort we bought the folio information from landdirect.ie and went into our local branch of their mortgage company to say we were going to pull out of sale. They didnt give us any info obviously and to be honest I don't know if it had any sway at all but out of the blue on monday evening we got a call from our solicitor to say the sale was going ahead. Apparently the vendor decided to lodge the funds to clear the residual balance.

To say we were amazed is putting it mildly. We closed this evening. Of course Estate Agents fecked off on their Christmas Holidays early today and the keys were in their office. So we paid a locksmith to get us in. Just didnt care at that stage.

I saw your messages earlier this week...but right upto the last second I didnt know which way it was going to go so I didnt want to say anything. We cannot believe our luck. Things just turned around for us out of the blue. Kind of feel bad now for hating so much on the vendors last week (but i was so angry!!). I wish you guys all so much luck and hope that things can work out for ye like they have for us!

Casa2

jjoy80 wrote: »

So I cancelled the house insurances and returned items to ikea, viewed other properties and even bid on one. Went to reapply for a higher mortgage in case we needed it. In a last ditch effort we bought the folio information from landdirect.ie and went into our local branch of their mortgage company to say we were going to pull out of sale. They didnt give us any info obviously and to be honest I don't know if it had any sway at all but out of the blue on monday evening we got a call from our solicitor to say the sale was going ahead. Apparently the vendor decided to lodge the funds to clear the residual balance.

To say we were amazed is putting it mildly. We closed this evening. Of course Estate Agents fecked off on their Christmas Holidays early today and the keys were in their office. So we paid a locksmith to get us in. Just didnt care at that stage.

I saw your messages earlier this week...but right upto the last second I didnt know which way it was going to go so I didnt want to say anything. We cannot believe our luck. Things just turned around for us out of the blue. Kind of feel bad now for hating so much on the vendors last week (but i was so angry!!). I wish you guys all so much luck and hope that things can work out for ye like they have for us!

Oh My God, I am so glad for you... Congrats!!! really It brings me hope. I also viewed another apartment but as it was bank sale I decided to wait and will give the 28 day notice to the vendor next month. Even my solicitor doesn't understand how calm I am now but the market is quiet so I cannot do anything more and I believe that with the new rent limitations may be we will see more landlords selling house and it will push the banks also to sign the consents...now you can enjoy your Christmas and forget about all those problems. Santa is real !!!!!!!!!!!

jjoy80

Thanks so much. I feel like it hasn't really sank in. The last correspondence from their solicitor basically said, look we know ye are angry but we havent heard from our client (the vendor) about whether they can get consent or whether they will pay the balance so we don't know when we can close. And from reading all the threads on here and ask about money I have seen people left dangling for months and months, some who have gotten lucky eventually and others who have waited and been left disappointed. It is so so stressful. I am so relieved and overjoyed to be one of the lucky ones. So excited for my kids that they can finally have bedrooms we can decorate and so excited that we are finally out of the rental market.

It is hard to know what to do, because you're right, there is so little on the market and with prices rising its scary!!! I would suggest leaving your deposit on the house whilst regularly applying pressure on the vendors to move the sale on. I would write to their mortgage company, call into the branch, and say your offer is on the table whats the hold up. Maybe keep exteding the closing date fortnightly, at least until you find something else. In the meantime keep looking, and you will nab the next thing that suits you if this doesnt work out.

Good luck to anyone buying. I would still recommend you purchase a hjouse where there is consent to sell in place though!

Happy Christmas to ye all...im off to buy paint in the morning! Imagine! Can't believe our luck