Bus Éireann pay claim?

DontThankMe

So the bus drivers want an 11% pay rise even though the company is losing €6+ million a year. Can anyone explain this logic to me?
Where are bus éireann supposed to get the money from?
Close routes that are making a loss?
Then you'll have people that rely on their local bus service complaining, and also some drivers would lose their jobs so that's a no go. Privatisation would be a similar story with loss making routes being closed.
So how can they even expect a pay rise with the curent state of Bus Éireann.

darkpagandeath

We would not have any issues like this if people had paid the water charge.

ClovenHoof

darkpagandeath wrote: »

We would not have any issues like this if people had paid the water charge.

There would be no 'Water Charge' if our pussy politicians had have told the Bond Holders to '**** off and die' actually.

ClovenHoof

Privatization with low ridership route subsidies - LIKE AS IN JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY - is the answer.

We have some very bizarre black and white notions about privatization in this country.

Then again CIE does not (and never has done) public transport. Its function is merely to pay union types to drive buses and trains when they alone feel like doing it. Any public transport benefit that arises from this is purely accidental.

Atari Jaguar

There's talk of them closing a lot of routes. The Gorey to Wexford route is meant to be shut down, which is madness. With the train service gone now too I'd hate to live there.

ancapailldorcha

Greedy pricks being greedy shocker. I've had dealings with members of Vladimir Putin's regime who were nicer to me than BE's horde of self-entitled pricks.

end of the road

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Privatization with low ridership route subsidies - LIKE AS IN JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY - is the answer.

if you want to pay the most expensive subsidies in the world just like britain. privatization has failed.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

We have some very bizarre black and white notions about privatization in this country.

based on real life experiences and realities.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Then again CIE does not (and never has done) public transport. Its function is merely to pay union types to drive buses and trains when they alone feel like doing it. Any public transport benefit that arises from this is purely accidental.

unions exist in the oh so perfect private transport companies as well.

Atari Jaguer wrote: »

There's talk of them closing a lot of routes. The Gorey to Wexford route is meant to be shut down, which is madness. With the train service gone now too I'd hate to live there.

the train service is still there. irish rail have contempt for it but it is decently used dispite everything.

Widdershins

darkpagandeath wrote: »

We would not have any issues like this if people had paid the water charge.

If the water charge is going to fund payrises then I'm not paying it! We were told it's to keep public amenities going, and pay for street lighting etc.

The finance minister has already implicated pay increase demands in the potential recession.

ClovenHoof

Widdershins wrote: »

If the water charge is going to fund payrises then I'm not paying it!

That's why I didn't pay. I knew the greedy civil servants and semi state unions would treat it as their own personal bank.

Why do you think just about every moderator on boards.ie was fanatically pro Water Charge...vested personal interest.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Glenster

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There would be no 'Water Charge' if our pussy politicians had have told the Bond Holders to '**** off and die' actually.

True but we'd all be eating beans out of a billy can in a post-apocalyptic wasteland if we'd done that.

Glenster

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

True, Bus from edinburgh airport to Waverly was £3 last time I took it, comparable distance.

Harry Palmr

Expressway seems to be the hole in the bucket, yet there are several regional companies plying the N and M routes who presumably make enough to stay in business. Maybe they should join together buy Expressway and sack the unionised staff.

For Forks Sake

BE spokesperson stated today that every 1% extra on wages would add €1m to their payroll, and this is a business on track to lose €6m this year. #unionlogic.

dotsman

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There would be no 'Water Charge' if our pussy politicians had have told the Bond Holders to '**** off and die' actually.

Yup, unfortunately, there would also have been no water.

TBH, not many of us wanted to live in a third world country.

Dirty Dingus McGee

They've jacked up their prices again recently.

Really they should just be told.Company is losing money which means there is no money to pay for pay rises so either you stay happy with your current salary or **** off. I've no problem with Bus Eireann running at a loss as that is what happens with public service transport and lots of services are needed that may not be the most profitable but they really need to get a sense of perspective and realise that they shouldn't be taking the government for a complete ride.

The company I work for was losing money and so unfortunately 30 people were let go in October.

A dose of the reality of working for a proper company that has to make a profit might teach Bus Eireann Drivers to be thankful they still have their jobs rather than looking for an 11% pay rise and blackmailing the public into it.

I'm all for unions sticking up for workers who are being taken advantage of but again like most disputes in the public service this is not what is happening.

end of the road

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Expressway seems to be the hole in the bucket, yet there are several regional companies plying the N and M routes who presumably make enough to stay in business. Maybe they should join together buy Expressway and sack the unionised staff.

for what. on what grounds? for being in a union? illegal as far as i know to sack staff for being in a union. on the off chance that did ever happen, i would hope the sacked staff would drive the company out of business

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

A dose of the reality of working for a proper company that has to make a profit might teach Bus Eireann Drivers to be thankful they still have their jobs rather than looking for an 11% pay rise and blackmailing the public into it.

it won't teach them to be thankful for a job because they don't need to be thought to be thankful for something they earned by being the best candidates. one should not be thankful for a job they earned. they have it because they deserve it. otherwise they wouldn't have got it. they don't need a dose of reality, they live in reality. they are working for a company that has to make a proffit, the expressway operation is a commercial operation. the public aren't being blackmailed.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I'm all for unions sticking up for workers who are being taken advantage of but again like most disputes in the public service this is not what is happening.

if you are for unions standing up for their members then you have to take the good with the bad.

Idbatterim

if they start shutting some of the rail lines, it will reduce losses to Irish rail and some customers go over to BE, win / win... I said it on another thread earlier, you cant keep simply going back to tax payer looking for payrises, when company is losing money. For the routes that are subsidized, package them out with profitable routes, put in minimum service agreements and sell it off or tender it out...

Dirty Dingus McGee

end of the road wrote: »

if you are for unions standing up for their members then you have to take the good with the bad.

The unions aren't always right.If they focused their efforts on more legitimate claims they would be doing everyone a favour.

darkpagandeath

When does it stop being a public service though. We have stuff like I love the powers train. If some routes are only getting 5 passengers close it.

road_high

The likes of Dublin coach etc successfully operate profitably on many routes. If this can be done as well and better by the private sector then why are we paying BE to do the same thing? I accept they operate unviable routes as a public service, continue that but the rest leave to the markets.

questionmark?

Can anyone name a private company which is losing money where the staff are looking for a 11% pay rise?

I presume if they get the pay rise they will work hours and routes that suit customers rather than the workers without any extra demands!

darkpagandeath

questionmark? wrote: »

Can anyone name a private company which is losing money where the staff are looking for a 11% pay rise?

I presume if they get the pay rise they will work hours and routes that suit customers rather than the workers without any extra demands!

No work or losing money = lost job.

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

if they start shutting some of the rail lines, it will reduce losses to Irish rail and some customers go over to BE, win / win... I said it on another thread earlier, you cant keep simply going back to tax payer looking for payrises, when company is losing money. For the routes that are subsidized, package them out with profitable routes, put in minimum service agreements and sell it off or tender it out...

as i explained before (maybe you didn't see the posts which if so fair enough)
1. shutting lines don't reduce losses to irish rail. no amount of closures are going to change IE'S fortunes, or indeed change anything or free up money for other things. government budgeting in any country doesn't operate on that manner. if the money isn't spent on something it's gone.
2. the users of the shut lines don't go to bus services but to the car. so that would have no effect on bus eireann.
3. packaging out routes and selling them off or tendering will cost the tax payer anything up to 10 times more going on the best similar example, britain which has the most expensive transport subsidies and fares in the world.
the current system has many many faults but better it then another britain in my view.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The unions aren't always right.If they focused their efforts on more legitimate claims they would be doing everyone a favour.

the unions focus on many things, many which you or i or anyone else won't hear about. people also have to become members of the unions if they want to avail of the protection from those unions.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

When does it stop being a public service though. We have stuff like I love the powers train. If some routes are only getting 5 passengers close it.

they're are no routes with 5 people (unless they are a minny bus or large taxi service)

road_high wrote: »

The likes of Dublin coach etc successfully operate profitably on many routes. If this can be done as well and better by the private sector then why are we paying BE to do the same thing? I accept they operate unviable routes as a public service, continue that but the rest leave to the markets.

bus eireann only get funding for non financially but socially necessary routes, aka public service obligation routes. bus eireann have a commercial arm called expressway which does not receeve a subsidy which is left to the market.

questionmark? wrote: »

Can anyone name a private company which is losing money where the staff are looking for a 11% pay rise?

transdev ireland? if i remember rightly during the luas strike they claimed to have been losing money since 2015.

ClovenHoof

Irish Rail is the one that people should really be getting angry about. Most rail lines around the country are about to be shut down to 'cut costs' - that is because we are heading towards a situation were Irish rail union staff will be in 250,000 euros each a year and management on a half a million a year salaries.

This is what happens when you do not have a national public transport provider in your country. Services are massively curtailed in order to appease salary expenditures.

If we had public transport in Ireland not union and management jobs. The public transport services would be retained and the staff let go. There are situations were say there are dozens of people on the Limerick Waterford line who have basically nothing to do most of the day getting their 'pay agreements' because their father or grandfathers got them a 'job on the railway'. That line is about to be closed to 'cut costs' but the staff will still show up everyday at stations with no tracks because it all about them and not public transport.

If most people were to discover how CIE really functions there would be riots.

end of the road

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Irish Rail is the one that people should really be getting angry about. Most rail lines around the country are about to be shut down to 'cut costs' - that is because we are heading towards a situation were Irish rail union staff will be in 250,000 euros each a year and management on a half a million a year salaries.

This is what happens when you do not have a national public transport provider in your country. Services are massively curtailed in order to appease salary expenditures.

If we had public transport in Ireland not union and management jobs. The public transport services would be retained and the staff let go. There are situations were say there are dozens of people on the Limerick Waterford line who have basically nothing to do most of the day getting their 'pay agreements' because their father or grandfathers got them a 'job on the railway'. That line is about to be closed to 'cut costs' but the staff will still show up everyday at stations with no tracks because it all about them and not public transport.

If most people were to discover how CIE really functions there would be riots.

oh come on. it's no secret i'm no fan of IE and have plenty of issues with them, but most of this is nonsense. the average staff member can only dream about 250000. they will never earn that wage. 30/50 grand depending on time served and going through the incraments is all they will ever earn. management are on a high wage but in reality they are always going to be whoever runs the service. the rest of what you claim is a myth. they're were no staff turning up to stations with no tracks claiming pay. yes it's true some staff were transferred elsewhere (and that's if they were lucky) plenty did lose their jobs however. CIE is badly run yes but if a line closes now then staff will be out the door unless they bring back customer service staff doing proper revenue checks on trains for which some will take up those positions should they wish to. but that isn't going to happen so it will be out the door.

somefeen

There is a shortage of bus drivers and AFAIK Bus Eireann have a very selective recruitment process.
The Bus drivers know they are worth more due to scarcity so of course they are going to demand an increase. Open market and all that.
Either pay to train more drivers of a high enough standard to work for BE or pay more for public transport.......or drop standards and let anyone with a bus licence and an attitude drive you and your kids around.

Of course on the other side of the coin the drivers could just leave and go drive for a company that pays 11% more seeing as they are so scarce.

The Raptor

I'm sure they will get their pay rise. The bus price just went up AGAIN. Soon we will be paying €5 for a city route. I have no sympathy for the greedy fu¢kers.

Donald Trump

The Raptor wrote: »

I'm sure they will get their pay rise. The bus price just went up AGAIN. Soon we will be paying €5 for a city route. I have no sympathy for the greedy fu¢kers.

As someone who was wholly dependent on public transport for about 10 years, I have to say that there were some terrible drivers. There were a couple of really sound ones but there were also ones that wouldn't stop to pick me up from the proper bus-stop because they were running late or some other reason. They would just flash their lights and keep going without stopping. And they weren't full.
Or ones that would divert from the normal route and bypass my stop. My stop was on a national route which had had a motorway built beside it.............bus drivers would routinely decide that they would like to bypass a few miles of bus-stops in order to save a couple of minutes by going non-stop on the motorway.
Anyone who could, got a car and drove to wherever they wanted to go. Or they drove or got a lift to the nearest train station. Despite there being a nominal timetabled service of about 2 buses an hour. They would start off at the bus stop with me but then soon enough they would have to find some other form of transport.

Mr. Incognito

Because the Unions keep getting away with it.

They are already overpaid and want a 20% rise.

Widdershins

I travelled Limerick to outside Cork City and brought the timetable in my phone for the return journey. I was stuck in the middle of nowhere and found a bus further up the road from the stop I was supposed to be leaving from. He was only the nursing home bus and there were no other buses arriving in the area that evening, I was told. I and another passenger going to the same event had checked with the original driver when he dropped us off and he definitely confirmed that he would be back at that same stop at whatever time. The driver of this other bus dropped me off in the city anyway but I was pretty shocked that the buses didn't have to turn up at all despite being timetabled. If he hadn't happened to be still parked outside the nursing home I'd have had an awful lot of miles to walk to get back to Cork, and no idea where I was going. And a dead phone!

Only met one or two nice drivers in all of the journeys I've done.

osarusan

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Why do you think just about every moderator on boards.ie was fanatically pro Water Charge...vested personal interest.

:pac::pac::pac:

cajonlardo

Glenster wrote: »

True but we'd all be eating beans out of a billy can in a post-apocalyptic wasteland if we'd done that.

Not all of us.

Some of us would be selling the tins of beans

suicide_circus

11%? Why not 22%?

steddyeddy

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Privatization with low ridership route subsidies - LIKE AS IN JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY - is the answer.

We have some very bizarre black and white notions about privatization in this country.

Then again CIE does not (and never has done) public transport. Its function is merely to pay union types to drive buses and trains when they alone feel like doing it. Any public transport benefit that arises from this is purely accidental.

Before coming to England I would have agreed with you. However privatization has made the trains here astronomical and really poor value for money.

SEPT 23 1989

Dissolve the insolvent company and hire them back on private operators wages

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

gazzer

I may be unpopular for saying this but surely one of the options to be looked at is to charge Free Bus Pass holders a nominal fee for certain journeys they make. I often get the bus from Cavan to Dublin and the majority of people getting the 8.30 or 9.30 bus have free bus passes. It must be costing the company a fortune to run that particular service. I know some of these people are possibly going to Dublin for hospital appointments but for other people with passes I think they should be made pay a nominal fee of €5 or some thing near that amount.

Widdershins

gazzer wrote: »

I may be unpopular for saying this but surely one of the options to be looked at is to charge Free Bus Pass holders a nominal fee for certain journeys they make. I often get the bus from Cavan to Dublin and the majority of people getting the 8.30 or 9.30 bus have free bus passes. It must be costing the company a fortune to run that particular service. I know some of these people are possibly going to Dublin for hospital appointments but for other people with passes I think they should be made pay a nominal fee of €5 or some thing near that amount.

I see your point but chances are they're living on disability or carers allowance so they probably can't afford it. And that would go from five to seven to ten before you know it. Like prescription charges.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Widdershins

You already have to pay a fee if you hold a travel pass and want to prebook a seat on a train. If you're disabled or accompanying a disabled person obviously you have to ensure you're seated with them so prebooking is essential. It's not only the elderly with passes. I would not agree with adding an extra financial burden on top of carers or the elderly.

end of the road

Donald Trump wrote: »

As someone who was wholly dependent on public transport for about 10 years, I have to say that there were some terrible drivers. There were a couple of really sound ones but there were also ones that wouldn't stop to pick me up from the proper bus-stop because they were running late or some other reason. They would just flash their lights and keep going without stopping. And they weren't full.
Or ones that would divert from the normal route and bypass my stop. My stop was on a national route which had had a motorway built beside it.............bus drivers would routinely decide that they would like to bypass a few miles of bus-stops in order to save a couple of minutes by going non-stop on the motorway.
Anyone who could, got a car and drove to wherever they wanted to go. Or they drove or got a lift to the nearest train station. Despite there being a nominal timetabled service of about 2 buses an hour. They would start off at the bus stop with me but then soon enough they would have to find some other form of transport.

are you sure the particular route hadn't some services scheduled to by-pass the stops?
are you sure the driver hadn't been told by control to make up time to get back to the terminus on time?
either of these could be possible. still though it's annoying when it happens.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Dissolve the insolvent company and hire them back on private operators wages

wages which might be around the same in one of the big companies. so effectively your suggestion would be a waste of everyone's time.

gazzer wrote: »

I may be unpopular for saying this but surely one of the options to be looked at is to charge Free Bus Pass holders a nominal fee for certain journeys they make. I often get the bus from Cavan to Dublin and the majority of people getting the 8.30 or 9.30 bus have free bus passes. It must be costing the company a fortune to run that particular service. I know some of these people are possibly going to Dublin for hospital appointments but for other people with passes I think they should be made pay a nominal fee of €5 or some thing near that amount.

i'm not sure the expressway services take passes anyway do they?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Stonedpilot

Bus Eireann as a service gone downhill and drivers are somewhat responsible, not timekeeping, being rude, badgering to see tickets more than once etc. They don't deserve pay rise, sack the lot of them to set down a marker to future threats, that'll show em!

end of the road

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Bus Eireann as a service gone downhill and drivers are somewhat responsible, not timekeeping, being rude, badgering to see tickets more than once etc.

they are entitled to ask to see your ticket. if you believe someone isn't doing their job or are rude, report it to the national transport authority. how do you know they aren't time keeping? that's not something the passenger could ultimately tell as they're might have been instructions given out by control.

Stonedpilot wrote: »

They don't deserve pay rise, sack the lot of them to set down a marker to future threats, that'll show em!

that'll show m nothing. sacking the drivers will not set down any markers to non existant threats.

MeatTwoVeg

steddyeddy wrote: »

Before coming to England I would have agreed with you. However privatization has made the trains here astronomical and really poor value for money.

Privatization hasn't done that.
The trains are just poor value for money anyway. The user is just required to pay more of this cost in the UK as opposed to the rest of the taxpayers subsidising it.

ancapailldorcha

steddyeddy wrote: »

Before coming to England I would have agreed with you. However privatization has made the trains here astronomical and really poor value for money.

That's because they were never privatised. Instead, the government sells monopolies on different routes which is the exact opposite of competition.

MRnotlob606

Public Transport has always been shocking, Bus Éireann are terrible.

foggy_lad

gazzer wrote: »

I may be unpopular for saying this but surely one of the options to be looked at is to charge Free Bus Pass holders a nominal fee for certain journeys they make. I often get the bus from Cavan to Dublin and the majority of people getting the 8.30 or 9.30 bus have free bus passes. It must be costing the company a fortune to run that particular service. I know some of these people are possibly going to Dublin for hospital appointments but for other people with passes I think they should be made pay a nominal fee of €5 or some thing near that amount.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Many of the Expressway routes are providing a public service and BE should be getting paid for this service like they do for other PSO operated routes. Also Passes should not be accepted on any route where there is an alternative PSO subsidised route, eg: anyone going to Cavan or beyond should not be allowed onto route 30 buses before Cavan. they can get the 109 to Cavan and get the 30 from there.

Donald Trump

end of the road wrote: »

are you sure the particular route hadn't some services scheduled to by-pass the stops?

Yes, all buses were supposed to stop. It wasn't a city route where there were stops every 100 metres. There were a couple of miles between stops. Calls to the Inspector confirmed this. Inspector would apologise and take address and promise to send out free tickets. He never did. Eventually we stopped wasting our time complaining.

end of the road wrote: »

are you sure the driver hadn't been told by control to make up time to get back to the terminus on time?

No. But I don't care whether he had visions of The Virgin Mary telling him to get back for the early mass. Or whether he had left toast in the toaster. It wasn't at his personal whim to decide to stop to pick me up or whether to keep motoring on and leave me waiting maybe 40 minutes there for the next one.....which sometimes decided to do the same trick

end of the road wrote: »

either of these could be possible. still though it's annoying when it happens.

Neither of those excuse it. They lost many potential customers because of it. Unless you were 100% captive, you migrated to another form of transport.

During the summer I bought a bike and would cycle over 10 miles each way to get to where I was going to because I could not depend on the bus. It wasn't the 1940's now. You're talking mid 2000's and onwards.

end of the road

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes, all buses were supposed to stop. It wasn't a city route where there were stops every 100 metres. There were a couple of miles between stops. Calls to the Inspector confirmed this. Inspector would apologise and take address and promise to send out free tickets. He never did. Eventually we stopped wasting our time complaining.

fair enough.

Donald Trump wrote: »

No. But I don't care whether he had visions of The Virgin Mary telling him to get back for the early mass. Or whether he had left toast in the toaster. It wasn't at his personal whim to decide to stop to pick me up or whether to keep motoring on and leave me waiting maybe 40 minutes there for the next one.....which sometimes decided to do the same trick

unfortunately if control has given him an instruction then he has to abide by it. when control come calling driver has to come running unfortunately. granted it's not your problem but the driver has to do what they are told. i don't know if that's what happened in this case and never will but it could be a reason. if not and the driver just drove by after you put out your hand to signal for the bus to stop then driver should be sanctioned.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Neither of those excuse it. They lost many potential customers because of it. Unless you were 100% captive, you migrated to another form of transport.

but they could be reasons for it. people have to understand that when instructions are given to a driver by management/control for whatever reason then those instructions aren't negotiable, they must be abided by. if it can be proved that they're were no instructions and the driver just drove by then the driver should be sanctioned for doing so.