Landlords responsibility in terms of insulation

Atari Jaguar

Hi,

We're moving into our 3rd year of tenancy. That is to say, we've served 2 years and we'll be signing our 3rd lease in 2 weeks.

What I'm wondering is our house is very very cold unless we have all the radiators on and the fire. And when I say cold - I mean you would sometimes be warmer outside. Is there any responsibility on the landlord to insulate the walls to stop this as it does interfere with our enjoyment and comfort in the house. As I said we are signing a new lease with no plans to leave soon. He's also planning to raise the rent so I don't think it's unfair to expect that he might oblige us here. I'm just wondering is it a legal obligation considering that without constant heating we are freezing. And I know it's the winter but it's not normal in my experience to need full oil heating and an electric fire running just to keep the place from being a freezer.

Cheers.

punisher5112

Atari Jaguer wrote: »

Hi,

We're moving into our 3rd year of tenancy. That is to say, we've served 2 years and we'll be signing our 3rd lease in 2 weeks.

What I'm wondering is our house is very very cold unless we have all the radiators on and the fire. And when I say cold - I mean you would sometimes be warmer outside. Is there any responsibility on the landlord to insulate the walls to stop this as it does interfere with our enjoyment and comfort in the house. As I said we are signing a new lease with no plans to leave soon. He's also planning to raise the rent so I don't think it's unfair to expect that he might oblige us here. I'm just wondering is it a legal obligation considering that without constant heating we are freezing. And I know it's the winter but it's not normal in my experience to need full oil heating and an electric fire running just to keep the place from being a freezer.

Cheers.

Get a better place.

They only have to provide house to minimum of standards.

Old houses cold and unless updated won't change and no chance in most cases of ll doing anything.

Atari Jaguar

punisher5112 wrote: »

Get a better place.

They only have to provide house to minimum of standards.

Old houses cold and unless updated won't change and no chance in most cases of ll doing anything.

I wish that were an option. Even with rent raise it'll still be way cheaper than most houses in the area, I couldn't afford 800-900 euro if I tried!

Thanks. I suppose I'll just have to ask and see what he says.
If worst comes to worst I'll just buy some blankets.

lawred2

I'd be surprised if he did anything...

He is certainly not under any obligation to do so.

pilly

Are there any cheap options you can do yourself? Where are the draughts coming from?

Atari Jaguar

pilly wrote: »

Are there any cheap options you can do yourself? Where are the draughts coming from?

Windows and doors! I'm going to ask but if he says no I'll pick up some of those tinfoil things you put at the back of radiators what else is good for windows and that?

DublinDilbert

Atari Jaguer wrote: »

Windows and doors! I'm going to ask but if he says no I'll pick up some of those tinfoil things you put at the back of radiators what else is good for windows and that?

Curtin's with haeavy linings are good, but make sure they don't block radiators. Still won't do much good if there is a gale coming in.

Insulating the attic is very cheap and easy, the pay back is very quick.

punisher5112

If windows have gaps get insulation strips that stick to the part that shuts against frame I had to put 4 strips over each other on some windows in the sh1t hole I'm in.

Its actually quite poor how little you get in terms of an actual decent place.

Try seal up what you can and cover letterbox and put strips on bottoms of doors also if applicable.

Jen44

we insulated our attic with the rolls of insulation you can buy in the likes of B&Q and that it made a good bit of difference! That being said we are getting internal insulation in our bedrooms this Jan

godtabh

This is what a ber is for

L1011

Why are you signing new leases every year?

There's a few things that can be done for under a few hundred euro total as detailed above - requesting these is unlikely to cause the rent to increase by more than that.

Even though it is a DIY job, I wouldn't go insulating his attic myself under any circumstances though - let him be the one that might go through a ceiling!

punisher5112

L1011 wrote: »

Why are you signing new leases every year?

There's a few things that can be done for under a few hundred euro total as detailed above - requesting these is unlikely to cause the rent to increase by more than that.

Even though it is a DIY job, I wouldn't go insulating his attic myself under any circumstances though - let him be the one that might go through a ceiling!

Its all well and good asking but most won't and honestly in my experience don't give a sh1t once money keeps coming in.

Sheds are being put up for let at astronomical prices and these ll get people as there is nowhere left.

I've been pushed further and further from Dublin and forced to commute. There is the argument to house share but impossible with a family.

Banks won't lend and I fully agree and understand how they lent to anyone even those that never worked was crazy but we both work permanent jobs and with the crippling rent its near impossible to save to get a deposit together.

The new change will only increase prices again as more will try to buy if they can.

Atari Jaguer

Atari Jaguer wrote: »

I wish that were an option. Even with rent raise it'll still be way cheaper than most houses in the area, I couldn't afford 800-900 euro if I tried! ...............

It seems that rent is reflective of the house so?

My Dad's house is the same, freezing except for the living room where the stove is

pilly

If it's windows and doors you buy stuff to stick around them cheaply and easily might help. Also keep internal doors closed, keeps the heat in the particular rooms.

Barely Hedged

punisher5112 wrote: »

Its all well and good asking but most won't and honestly in my experience don't give a sh1t once money keeps coming in.

Sheds are being put up for let at astronomical prices and these ll get people as there is nowhere left.

I've been pushed further and further from Dublin and forced to commute. There is the argument to house share but impossible with a family.

Banks won't lend and I fully agree and understand how they lent to anyone even those that never worked was crazy but we both work permanent jobs and with the crippling rent its near impossible to save to get a deposit together.

The new change will only increase prices again as more will try to buy if they can.

The OP admits a few posts previously that it's far cheaper, even with an upcoming increase, than anything else in the area.

What's the problem?

punisher5112

Barely Hedged wrote: »

The OP admits a few posts previously that it's far cheaper, even with an upcoming increase, than anything else in the area.

What's the problem?

If you can't see the problems then no point explaining it as I have put it across as simple as possible.

May be cheaper but standards are poor across most rentals.

Yes there are minimum standards but insulation isn't one and I've been in places where they needed heat even in the summer.

Conditions of these properties are extremely poor.

Del2005

godtabh wrote: »

This is what a ber is for

BER is the biggest scam this country has ever thought up. It does not check air tightness and you can go up a rating by installing CFL bulbs while still having a gale blowing though the place.

Barely Hedged

punisher5112 wrote: »

If you can't see the problems then no point explaining it as I have put it across as simple as possible.

May be cheaper but standards are poor across most rentals.

Yes there are minimum standards but insulation isn't one and I've been in places where they needed heat even in the summer.

Conditions of these properties are extremely poor.

I can't see any problems because none exist.

The OP wants to know if the landlord has satisfied their obligations to the tenant. The landlord has satisfied their obligations. Furthermore, the landlord offers the property at a significant discount.

The tenant has free will to leave and look elsewhere if he/she feels the accommodation is not of the market standard. Where has the OPs rights been infringed to make a reasoned decision for themselves?

"Standards are poor across rentals". Where did you pull this stat from?

Idbatterim

op the real easy and cheap gains here are attic insulation and stopping the draughts... is the attic insulated?

I am in a similar position, paying a lot of rent in Dublin, had to get out of the uber insulated modern apartment I was in and move to a house, because well like most apartments in Ireland, the build quality was ****e, noise was relentless.

In my opinion, there should be BER for rental properties and the minimum standard should be an E. and attic insulation, heating controls and hot water tank jacket should be the absolute minimum accepted.

The OP wants to know if the landlord has satisfied their obligations to the tenant. The landlord has satisfied their obligations. Furthermore, the landlord offers the property at a significant discount.

no doubt they have fulfilled their legal obligations! There should be a minimum standard of insulation on rental properties, I wont go any further on this point, no need to reply. Ill simply take it as trolling...

Mrs OBumble

Idbatterim wrote: »

In my opinion, there should be BER for rental properties and the minimum standard should be an E. and attic insulation, heating controls and hot water tank jacket should be the absolute minimum accepted.

no doubt they have fulfilled their legal obligations! There should be a minimum standard of insulation on rental properties, I wont go any further on this point, no need to reply. Ill simply take it as trolling...

And the OP would be homeless, just like the folks who used to live in bedsits are. Clever.


OP, just ask the landlord. Some will do stuff like that, some won't.

Idbatterim

I didnt ask for a B, a bloody E! it would probably take absolute minimal investment... Many of them are happy to cream in the thousands, but wouldnt put cents back into the property, that someone is calling a home! by the way, I did ask my landlord, he said he'd do it (attic insulation) , the fact there isnt any, is a disgrace and the fact there is no legal requirement for it, tells you all you need to know about renting in this country...

GGTrek

Idbatterim wrote: »

I didnt ask for a B, a bloody E! it would probably take absolute minimal investment... Many of them are happy to cream in the thousands, but wouldnt put cents back into the property, that someone is calling a home! by the way, I did ask my landlord, he said he'd do it (attic insulation) , the fact there isnt any, is a disgrace and the fact there is no legal requirement for it, tells you all you need to know about renting in this country...

You obviously have no idea of building costs in Ireland: it could cost tens of thousands of euros to upgrade a G rated property to E and in many cases, like listed buildings, it would require planning permission that might be refused.

Barely Hedged

Idbatterim wrote: »

op the real easy and cheap gains here are attic insulation and stopping the draughts... is the attic insulated?

I am in a similar position, paying a lot of rent in Dublin, had to get out of the uber insulated modern apartment I was in and move to a house, because well like most apartments in Ireland, the build quality was ****e, noise was relentless.

In my opinion, there should be BER for rental properties and the minimum standard should be an E. and attic insulation, heating controls and hot water tank jacket should be the absolute minimum accepted.

no doubt they have fulfilled their legal obligations! There should be a minimum standard of insulation on rental properties, I wont go any further on this point, no need to reply. Ill simply take it as trolling...

You can buy a period property in Dublin 4 for millions with the lowest rating possible or maybe nearly all of the semi ds around the country. It's not just rental properties.

Point still stands. The OP is paying much less for an inferior property and theyre fully aware of that as they can't afford a better one. What do you not understand about this? Who do you think will fork out the extra money if you increase the regulatory demands on a rental property above that of a house in Dublin 4 or many residential properties around the country. The OP will simply have to pay more, for which they can't afford. Trolling indeed

newacc2015

Idbatterim wrote: »

I didnt ask for a B, a bloody E! it would probably take absolute minimal investment... Many of them are happy to cream in the thousands, but wouldnt put cents back into the property, that someone is calling a home! by the way, I did ask my landlord, he said he'd do it (attic insulation) , the fact there isnt any, is a disgrace and the fact there is no legal requirement for it, tells you all you need to know about renting in this country...

Who do you think will pay for the landlord spending thousands insulating his property? The tenants will pay for it in higher rent. If someone is not happy with the house they are calling home, they move out.

If people want high standard and cheap housing in this country, lobby your TD for more social housing. Dont expect a private landlord to basically run a charity...

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

I didnt ask for a B, a bloody E! it would probably take absolute minimal investment... Many of them are happy to cream in the thousands, but wouldnt put cents back into the property,.

More than half of which is going in tax and then in most cases there is a mortgage to be paid etc. Some people really need to get this idea of LL swimming in money out of their heads. Like any business an investment will only be made firstly if the business can afford it (which many LL cannot) and secondly if they get payback on it.

If he insulates the place he will need to incase the rent by more than planned to pay for it.

L1011

Idbatterim wrote: »

I didnt ask for a B, a bloody E!

Most properties could get to an E just by guiding the assessor in their answers. System is useless.

Idbatterim

You obviously have no idea of building costs in Ireland: it could cost tens of thousands of euros to upgrade a G rated property to E and in many cases, like listed buildings, it would require planning permission that might be refused.

Well my dad has been in the building game for over thirty years, I can do a lot of work myself and we are currently doing up a 10,000 sq foot property, I reckon I have some idea. Listed buildings are a different kettle of fish, I am talking about the vast vast majority, that are not...

Who do you think will pay for the landlord spending thousands insulating his property? The tenants will pay for it in higher rent. If someone is not happy with the house they are calling home, they move out.

If people want high standard and cheap housing in this country, lobby your TD for more social housing. Dont expect a private landlord to basically run a charity...

the biggest heat loss as a % is lost through the roof, a normal 3/4 bed semi might cost E500 or so to insulate the attic. Op fork out yourself if you plan on staying there a while and the landlord wont... Right you don't want an E rating, as if I was suggesting bringing ice boxes up to a B. Attic insulation should be the minimum... Maybe a one of E500 is too much though, for insulation that will last decades and for properties renting for E1700 a month....

Also banning the bedsits was moronic Mrs Obumble, did I say I agreed with that?

Also of course there are landlords struggling or accidental landlords. There are also landlords that inherited property etc or several of them, that would let out homes at ridiculous rates, that they probably wouldn't put their animals into... A friend knocked in unexpectedly earlier, shes been to look at several houses in Dublin, she said shed contemplate taking some of them if they were free! And I know what she means , I was viewing these said kips last year...

Gumbo

Idbatterim wrote: »

There should be a minimum standard of insulation on rental properties, I wont go any further on this point, no need to reply. Ill simply take it as trolling...

How would you recommend a LL insulate the property?
internal insulation?
Pumped cavity?
External Insulation?

How much do you think this costs?

Idbatterim wrote: »

There should be a minimum standard of insulation on rental properties

There is, they are called Building Regulations and are applicable to every dwelling, whether rented or not. They house most likely complies to when it was built.

Idbatterim wrote: »

the biggest heat loss as a % is lost through the roof, a normal 3/4 bed semi might cost E500 or so to insulate the attic. Op fork out yourself if you plan on staying there a while and the landlord wont... Right you don't want an E rating, as if I was suggesting bringing ice boxes up to a B. Attic insulation should be the minimum... Maybe a one of E500 is too much though, for insulation that will last decades and for properties renting for E1700 a month....

30% to be exact.

I'm all for LL's keeping the house to a standard. For example, availing of the varies grants to upgrade boiler, or heting controls, attic insulation etc, but to get the walls done properly, make no mistake, the tenant will need to vacate the property.

Barely Hedged

Idbatterim wrote: »

Well my dad has been in the building game for over thirty years, I can do a lot of work myself and we are currently doing up a 10,000 sq foot property, I reckon I have some idea. Listed buildings are a different kettle of fish, I am talking about the vast vast majority, that are not...

the biggest heat loss as a % is lost through the roof, a normal 3/4 bed semi might cost E500 or so to insulate the attic. Op fork out yourself if you plan on staying there a while and the landlord wont... Right you don't want an E rating, as if I was suggesting bringing ice boxes up to a B. Attic insulation should be the minimum... Maybe a one of E500 is too much though, for insulation that will last decades and for properties renting for E1700 a month....

Also banning the bedsits was moronic Mrs Obumble, did I say I agreed with that?

Also of course there are landlords struggling or accidental landlords. There are also landlords that inherited property etc or several of them, that would let out homes at ridiculous rates, that they probably wouldn't put their animals into... A friend knocked in unexpectedly earlier, shes been to look at several houses in Dublin, she said shed contemplate taking some of them if they were free! And I know what she means , I was viewing these said kips last year...

Well if you were any good or in demand in the building game, you'd know that the vast majority of period properties aren't listed. Also, nearly all of the houses constructed up to the 90's and even into the 00's have very low insular properties.

I'd love to see these figures for property or mutilple property inheritance that you talk of.

Also, did you ever consider that the property you were looking at is in the section of inferior as there is more turnover for these types of properties or do you extrapolate and base youre opinion off what you see in front of you instead of understanding the context I.e. people are less likely to move from good rental accommodation, so there's less good stock on the market?

Atari Jaguar

Augeo wrote: »

It seems that rent is reflective of the house so?

My Dad's house is the same, freezing except for the living room where the stove is

No, actually. We were just lucky to get in when we did.

Atari Jaguar

kceire wrote: »

I'm all for LL's keeping the house to a standard. For example, availing of the varies grants to upgrade boiler, or heting controls, attic insulation etc, but to get the walls done properly, make no mistake, the tenant will need to vacate the property.

What are these grants about boilers?