Landlords responsibility in terms of insulation

Idbatterim

There is, they are called Building Regulations and are applicable to every dwelling, whether rented or not. They house most likely complies to when it was built.

yeah and the regulations today are there for a reason, yet many live in ice boxes, who's non existent insulation building standards, ceased decades ago...

pilly

Idbatterim wrote:

Well my dad has been in the building game for over thirty years, I can do a lot of work myself and we are currently doing up a 10,000 sq foot property, I reckon I have some idea. Listed buildings are a different kettle of fish, I am talking about the vast vast majority, that are not...

If the majority of heat in a house is lost through the attic then how some the up stairs in an house is much warmer than downstairs..?. This is a genuine question because in both my house the kitchen is the coldest room. In my opinion a large kitchen needs 2 rads. One of my living rooms has 2 rads and a firplace. Doesn't make sense. We spend not time sittin still in the kitchen for study etc.

Gumbo

Atari Jaguer wrote: »

What are these grants about boilers?

SEAI Grant
HRI Scheme
Warmer Homes Initiative

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah and the regulations today are there for a reason, yet many live in ice boxes, who's non existent insulation building standards, ceased decades ago...

But you cannot retrospectively apply new regulations to older properties going forward???

pilly wrote: »

If the majority of heat in a house is lost through the attic then how some the up stairs in an house is much warmer than downstairs..?. This is a genuine question because in both my house the kitchen is the coldest room. In my opinion a large kitchen needs 2 rads. One of my living rooms has 2 rads and a firplace. Doesn't make sense. We spend not time sittin still in the kitchen for study etc.

30% is lost though the roof.
Upstairs benefits from the heat downstairs and as hot air rises into the bedrooms (no insulation in floor joists to stop it), but you also have the knock on effect of rads in those rooms too, so your heating from 2 sources, then it goes up through the roof if lack of insulation is present.

The_Conductor

pilly wrote: »

If the majority of heat in a house is lost through the attic then how some the up stairs in an house is much warmer than downstairs..?. This is a genuine question because in both my house the kitchen is the coldest room. In my opinion a large kitchen needs 2 rads. One of my living rooms has 2 rads and a firplace. Doesn't make sense. We spend not time sittin still in the kitchen for study etc.

Quite simply- hot air rises. So- even if you're loosing most of your heat through the roof- its still going to be warmer upstairs, than it is downstairs........

Browney7

People would no doubt be screaming blue murder if the tenant stopped pi**ing against the wind trying to heat the place as they'd be in breach of their lease by not maintaining it at an adequate temp.

Can the LL not write off cost of insulation over a number of years and get a grant on same? Seems all a bit penny wise pound foolish to me from the LL especially if attic insulation is as cheap as people are saying here...

Gumbo

Browney7 wrote: »

People would no doubt be screaming blue murder if the tenant stopped pi**ing against the wind trying to heat the place as they'd be in breach of their lease by not maintaining it at an adequate temp.

Can the LL not write off cost of insulation over a number of years and get a grant on same? Seems all a bit penny wise pound foolish to me from the LL especially if attic insulation is as cheap as people are saying here...

Yes they can write off 12.5% of it every year for 8 years.
The attic insulation is very easy and relatively easy to do. It's when you want to insulate walls etc that it becomes costly and most likely you would have to have a vacated premise to do it as it will require stripping walls, insulating, plastering and painting.

Could be 10k worth of work there to do in a typical 3 bed semi if not more.
The LL would have to have this up front or borrow.

Atari Jaguar

kceire wrote: »

Yes they can write off 12.5% of it every year for 8 years.
The attic insulation is very easy and relatively easy to do. It's when you want to insulate walls etc that it becomes costly and most likely you would have to have a vacated premise to do it as it will require stripping walls, insulating, plastering and painting.

Could be 10k worth of work there to do in a typical 3 bed semi if not more.
The LL would have to have this up front or borrow.

He's got several properties one of which is a commercial lease. He runs a huge business also so he's not poor by any means.

The_Conductor

Browney7 wrote: »

People would no doubt be screaming blue murder if the tenant stopped pi**ing against the wind trying to heat the place as they'd be in breach of their lease by not maintaining it at an adequate temp.

Can the LL not write off cost of insulation over a number of years and get a grant on same? Seems all a bit penny wise pound foolish to me from the LL especially if attic insulation is as cheap as people are saying here...

A landlord cannot write off capital investment in a rental property- at all (other than replacing fixtures and fittings or making good damage on a like for like basis). Any improvement in the property- is not a tax deductible expense. So- if a landlord goes and puts in double glazing- replacing single glazing- while its great that he or she is doing so- and there is no doubt that the tenant will benefit from it- it is not an allowable expense.......... If- one the other hand- the tenant does a spot of DIY and demolishes a load bearing wall- necessitating large costs in reconstitution of said wall alongside ancillary works- that is all deductible......... Go figure........

Similarly- the SEI grants for insulation, boilers, heating controls etc- don't apply to a rental property- however, for some of these (such as the boiler itself)- it is allowable as a cost on a flatrate basis over 8 years (@12.5% per annum).

If a landlord was allowed to simply plough rental income back into the dwelling- upgrading the insulation, heating, wiring etc etc- in a tax efficient manner- it would make a lot of sense- unfortunately- the Irish tax collection system is stacked against landlords- in a quite perverse manner.

Browney7

The_Conductor wrote: »

A landlord cannot write off capital investment in a rental property- at all (other than replacing fixtures and fittings or making good damage on a like for like basis). Any improvement in the property- is not a tax deductible expense. So- if a landlord goes and puts in double glazing- replacing single glazing- while its great that he or she is doing so- and there is no doubt that the tenant will benefit from it- it is not an allowable expense.......... If- one the other hand- the tenant does a spot of DIY and demolishes a load bearing wall- necessitating large costs in reconstitution of said wall alongside ancillary works- that is all deductible......... Go figure........

Similarly- the SEI grants for insulation, boilers, heating controls etc- don't apply to a rental property- however, for some of these (such as the boiler itself)- it is allowable as a cost on a flatrate basis over 8 years (@12.5% per annum).

If a landlord was allowed to simply plough rental income back into the dwelling- upgrading the insulation, heating, wiring etc etc- in a tax efficient manner- it would make a lot of sense- unfortunately- the Irish tax collection system is stacked against landlords- in a quite perverse manner.

Assume the tenant can't apply for the grants either then if they're renting?

A trial scheme whereby a LL could get the VAT back might be a start.

Seems a fairly daft policy not allowing it. Assume CGT comes into it then aswell? LL pays for energy efficient upgrade increasing property value by same amount but then liable for CGT?

quadrifoglio verde

L1011 wrote: »

Most properties could get to an E just by guiding the assessor in their answers. System is useless.

I've mentioned it here before, friend of mines house sold with a d1 ber, heating would have to be one for three days solid before the house would be warm enough. Single glazing all around, gaps between the window frame and the wall, and you'd wake up with frozen feet the next morning if you didn't wear socks to bed.
Typical for a red brick Victorian really.

First thing I mentioned to him when I saw it on the front of the times. He was as dumbfounded as I was as to how it got a d1 rating

Idbatterim

But you cannot retrospectively apply new regulations to older properties going forward???

You could going forward, say that 1 year from now all rental properties if there is no attic insulation currently installed in houses at least, require it to a depth of 300mm. Make it tax deductible, its mickey mouse money. Christ its a good bit less than what I pay for a room in a 3 bed house! in fairness, if someone is getting a good deal on rent and plans on staying a while, they could pay it themselves, it would pay for itself in less than a year...

Gumbo

Idbatterim wrote: »

You could going forward, say that 1 year from now all rental properties if there is no attic insulation currently installed in houses at least, require it to a depth of 300mm. Make it tax deductible, its mickey mouse money. Christ its a good bit less than what I pay for a room in a 3 bed house! in fairness, if someone is getting a good deal on rent and plans on staying a while, they could pay it themselves, it would pay for itself in less than a year...

But you cannot just go lashing in 300mm insulation without thinking about ventilation to the joists/rafters. Its not as simple as that. Some roof rafter/truss systems may allow it, but some wont.

Can we retrospectively apply current safety requirements to cars registered in 2002, clearly not and rightly so.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done btw, I agree that if the government was to introduce some sort of tax incentive to upgrade older properties somewhat then it would be welcomed.

I personally got the heating controls upgraded through an SEAI grant for free this year and now my tenant has full control of her water/heating system from her phone/tablet/PC while out and about, so there are schemes available to LL's out there.

OscarBluth

If you were to point the landlord in the direction of grants that were available then they may consider it, but my experience of large-scale landlords was they preferred to let things tick along.

We rented an absolutely freezing house in the UK some years ago: single glazing, poorly maintained, impossible to properly warm up. Thermal curtain linings, which cost about 20 quid, really helped, as did using draught excluders and making sure doors were always closed. Much more effective than the tinfoil radiator things. We used hot water bottles and fleece blankets on the couch watching tv in the evening. You can also buy foamy stuff to seal windows, but I haven't tried that - the thermal curtain insets made enough difference.

AlanG

OP, the landlord has no responsibility other than to provide a BER when advertising the property. They may be willing to do something but are quite likely not putting your rent up in line with similar properties because they dont want the hassle and are happy to keep you there. If you become hassle it changes the equation.
If your rent is 200 or 300 cheaper than a similar property then you could do a lot of attic insulation for the 400 you are saving every couple of months. Just do it yourself.
Insulating walls is very expensive so there is no way your LL will do it at your request. One other thing to bear in mind is that if the house needs work it can be a reason to end a lease, so if you say the house is practically unlivable then the LL could legitimately get you out in order to do internal insulation.

Atari Jaguar

AlanG wrote: »

OP, the landlord has no responsibility other than to provide a BER when advertising the property. They may be willing to do something but are quite likely not putting your rent up in line with similar properties because they dont want the hassle and are happy to keep you there. If you become hassle it changes the equation.
If your rent is 200 or 300 cheaper than a similar property then you could do a lot of attic insulation for the 400 you are saving every couple of months. Just do it yourself.
Insulating walls is very expensive so there is no way your LL will do it at your request. One other thing to bear in mind is that if the house needs work it can be a reason to end a lease, so if you say the house is practically unlivable then the LL could legitimately get you out in order to do internal insulation.

We've already spent a fair bit upgrading things to save hassle to be honest. We've replaced a broken fridge hob and shower. Council bylaw says if there's no private area to dry clothes we needed a dryer but we bought our own and never looked for money back. I don't have the money to be insulating attics and that. I will ask him to use one of those grants to upgrade our oil burner because it's a firebird popular 90 and it doesn't look like it has much life left in it.

tradesman

I can't see the LL replacing a boiler that is working. It might be old but still works. You never know though as he might see the benefit but don't hold your breath!

Atari Jaguar

tradesman wrote: »

I can't see the LL replacing a boiler that is working. It might be old but still works. You never know though as he might see the benefit but don't hold your breath!

I wouldn't call it working now to be fair.

Periodically cuts out and sometimes doesn't fire at all. I don't think it's been serviced once in it's life. He's not too bad in fairness to him when things go wrong he's on the ball to fix it. Like I mentioned for most things I won't bother asking but I can't afford a few hundred for a new boiler.

tradesman

just get onto him & tell him the boiler has broke down & has been playing up for a while. He will probably replace it as it is old & he should have no more trouble with it for another few years. From what your saying it looks like you need constant heat in that house so a new boiler should be on your christmas list!

Atari Jaguar

tradesman wrote: »

just get onto him & tell him the boiler has broke down & has been playing up for a while. He will probably replace it as it is old & he should have no more trouble with it for another few years. From what your saying it looks like you need constant heat in that house so a new boiler should be on your christmas list!

Getting that replaced would help with heating costs also. Modern burners use less oil because they're more insulated, in the summer I can look at getting attic insulation and fitting a lagging jacket and pipe insulation.

notharrypotter

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

I wouldn't call it working now to be fair.

Periodically cuts out and sometimes doesn't fire at all. I don't think it's been serviced once in it's life. He's not too bad in fairness to him when things go wrong he's on the ball to fix it. Like I mentioned for most things I won't bother asking but I can't afford a few hundred for a new boiler.

You are there 3 years or so.

When was the boiler last serviced?

We get ours serviced every 2.

Ray Palmer

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

I wouldn't call it working now to be fair.

Periodically cuts out and sometimes doesn't fire at all. I don't think it's been serviced once in it's life. He's not too bad in fairness to him when things go wrong he's on the ball to fix it. Like I mentioned for most things I won't bother asking but I can't afford a few hundred for a new boiler.

Stop using it now. Call your landlord to get it serviced ASAP. This is not something to take lightly. Call a guy yourself and organise it. You are playing with your life here. I am vocal about not withholding rent and paying people to fix issues in rentals but this is the exception as you are at risk.

He could have easily forgotten to get this done but you can be sure nobody wants somebody to die in their property due to such an oversight.

As for insulation the simple answer is no there is no obligation to improve this. There was a time where the grant system made it a very good option for a landlord to insulate rental properties. I did it myself on 3 properties. It was still expensive but there was €4k back on each household so on one property that is split in 3 meant €12k grant and it still cost €16k which was cheaper than my own home which is a modest 3bed semi.

I told the neighbouring landlord he should do it too as the grant would probably change. He had the money to do it but said he would wait. Then the grant changed so it would be only €4k per property, taxes increased on rental income and other expenses added. It felt like punishment for improving the comfort of my tenants. I could easily have left the properties as they were with no real economic difference to me. I didn't increase the rent after the work and do not charge more than others similar.

So the property could be worth more now but the rental yield doesn't really go up as I could rent them out for the same (actually more than I currently do). No incentive really. Kind of regret spending the money on the property as the tenants don't seem to acknowledge they have low heating bills and the properties are much more comfortable. I lived in them all so I know what they were like.

Either way it is massively expensive to do correctly. Pumped insulation really isn't advisable and internal insulation is very disruptive. Both of those methods are very rarely done correctly. External insulation is the best as is does a number of tasks, protects the exterior of the building, improves the appearance of the building etc... The one thing is it is the most expensive.

JustAThought

A colleage had the outside of their redbrick insulated & had no difference apart from sweating inner walls - ditto a friend had their draughty 1960's bungalow done but its still an ice box - single glazing, long north facing corridors, tiny radiators etc. standing at fromt door talking to neighbouts while freezjng outside air shoots in & plumets the house into antartica etc.

Ask your LL to service the boiler - say its making funny noises & seems inefficient - it will cost him about e200 & is a far better ask than a couple of thousand for a new one which he probably won't do.

OP small things can help a lot and as you are in the house 2+ years you are better positioned to make suggestions to your landlord. You say you have a fire- is there a hearth in each room? Is the heat literally going up the hole & intothe sky or do you use a draught excluder when the fire is not lit? My parents used stuff unused fireplaces chimneybreasts with stuffed newspaper when not in use. Now you can buy blow up beachballtype ones for about e50 each but rolled up stuffed newspaper does just as wellso long as you don't forget it & start a fire!
Check your windowframes at night - usual cause for draughts - is there a draught whistling in through them? B&Q sell the thick white stick on 9mm insulating tape for about e7 a roll - works wonders. Find where ghe freeze is getting in & tape over it. If there is still a draught try again. If single glazing Go to the charity shop & buy & double hang curtains on existing rails or get your ll to hang thicker lined curtains or ones with the new insulating material on them. Or buy & sew white insulating curtain material onto the back of existing curtains - it'll cost about 2 hours of bockety sewing & twenty euro. Keep curtains closed to keep the heat into rooms & while the rads are on warming them or you might as well throw your money out the window .

Is it a house with freezing hall/stairs/landing? keep upstairs/other doors shut otherwise your lovely heat is just diluted & filtering into other large cold areas & upstairs rooms rather than filling the chosen few with heat.
Tuck curtains behind radiators if they are under windows as the heat just flies up behind the radiator & into the window space instead & is no use to you. Pull furniture & particularly couches away from blocking the heat escaping from radiators . Don't dry clothes on top of rads while you are trying to heat the room as all their heat is bloxked from leaving & suffocates the clothes dry instead & leaves you freezing. In fact - everything your parents or any eskimo will tellyou about living in a cold damp draughty Irish house in this ludacurous country!!!

Atari Jaguar

notharrypotter wrote: »

You are there 3 years or so.

When was the boiler last serviced?

We get ours serviced every 2.

I'm not being funny but the last service would have been done before we moved in - if ever.

notharrypotter

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

I'm not being funny but the last service would have been done before we moved in - if ever.

Check your lease.
If it's your responsibility then get it serviced.
If not then contact the landlord to get it done.
A service is far cheaper than having to get a plumber to come when it stops working.

Idbatterim

Ive a friend from uk over. As part of a government scheme, She is getting attic insulated for free on Tuesday ...

http://www.government-grants.co.uk/free-insulation

Atari Jaguar

notharrypotter wrote: »

Check your lease.
If it's your responsibility then get it serviced.
If not then contact the landlord to get it done.
A service is far cheaper than having to get a plumber to come when it stops working.

It's never a tenants responsibility AFAIK. Maintains the property is surely the landlords job?

Atari Jaguar

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ive a friend from uk over. As part of a government scheme, She is getting attic insulated for free on Tuesday ...

http://www.government-grants.co.uk/free-insulation

That's for UK though.