Landlord insisting on cash payments - options

CramCycle

hognef wrote: »

Very few landlords would be Direct Debit originators. I presume you mean Standing Order?

I did indeed

campingcarist

relax carry on wrote: »

As has been said multiple times already, your landlord is operating a business and demanding cash only payments usually point to either under declaring of income, possible issues with financial institutions or cashflow issues. The days of cash is king should be long gone. For security and traceability above all else, I wouldn't deal in cash on a regular basis.

He might know he's heading for a divorce and wants some money in his pocket.

exaisle

I'm not saying that it is true in the OP's case, but some landlords insist on being paid in cash because the tenant is unreliable.
Being paid in cash is a way of ensuring payment in cases where tenants have proven unreliable with their bank transfers.
Don't always assume that the landlord is automatically at fault.
This is by no means always the case.

twowheelsonly

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

There are only 2 possible reasons why the landlord would want cash only.
1: he's dodging tax
2: he's dodging mortgage payments and could possibly be in negative equity and he is stuffing as much into a mattress as he possibly can before the sherrif calls round.

There could be any number of reasons.
Nobody here knows why the Landlord is looking for cash so it's purely speculation to say that he's dodging tax, in negative equity or whatever.
Maybe he's separated / divorced or about to be and doesn't want his OH to know how much he's taking in.
Maybe he's married but still doing the same thing.
Maybe he has a number of properties that are paid for through the bank and he uses this one for his own wages / cash flow / maintenance. (A fella I know of does this..)
Maybe he has kids in college and he gives them a few hundred quid each per month.
Maybe one of those kids is in college down the country and is paying rent in cash using this money.
Maybe the LL has a business partner or partners and they all take a share and sort their own tax affairs.

Personally I don't see a problem with it other than being a PITA and nor do I see a problem with carrying cash around. People will be carrying a lot more over the next two weeks.

markpb wrote: »

This is anecdotal.

Fella I know gets robbed = Anecdotal
Fella I know doesn't get robbed = Anecdotal

Doesn't make either story more or less likely.

Gumbo

markpb wrote: »

Neither of them are even remotely related to the topic at hand.

In fairness, either are the acquisitions of tax evasion simply because of a cash transaction.

I use a plumbing company based out of Dublin. Fully registered, I get receipts for everything but he only accepts cash, nothing else! Should I be assuming. He is dodging tax also?

It's a landlord / tenant issue and if it was stipulated at the commencement of the lease then the OP should pony up.

rawn

I wouldn't care what the reasons are behind the LL only accepting cash. But I would not accept this arrangement, it's ridiculous. I rarely carry more than €20 in cash on me, I don't drive, and I am absolutely not going to go out of my way every month to go to an ATM, to withdraw a large amount of cash, carry it home and then hold on to it until the LL turns up at MY home (his HOUSE but MY home) to collect it. It's a stupid arrangement that has been made entirely unnecessary by the ease of setting up a standing order.

John_Rambo

Liam Brief Streetcar wrote: »

Have you quit driving because a tiny percentage of people die on the roads?

No, but I take precautions, I drive safely, wear a seatbelt, check my tyres, service the car regularly and don't drink and drive... etc.. Just like taking my card and a small bit of cash out with me on a night out.

Again, your posts are not remotely related to the thread.

A landlord expecting someone to pay that amount in cash every month bangs of amateur hour.

ZeroThreat

rawn wrote: »

I wouldn't care what the reasons are behind the LL only accepting cash. But I would not accept this arrangement, it's ridiculous. I rarely carry more than €20 in cash on me, I don't drive, and I am absolutely not going to go out of my way every month to go to an ATM, to withdraw a large amount of cash, carry it home and then hold on to it until the LL turns up at MY home (his HOUSE but MY home) to collect it. It's a stupid arrangement that has been made entirely unnecessary by the ease of setting up a standing order.

It's more like several trips to the ATM each month. I can only withdraw 600 max at any one time.

exaisle

rawn wrote:

I wouldn't care what the reasons are behind the LL only accepting cash. But I would not accept this arrangement, it's ridiculous. I rarely carry more than €20 in cash on me, I don't drive, and I am absolutely not going to go out of my way every month to go to an ATM, to withdraw a large amount of cash, carry it home and then hold on to it until the LL turns up at MY home (his HOUSE but MY home) to collect it. It's a stupid arrangement that has been made entirely unnecessary by the ease of setting up a standing order.

You don't care what the reasons are but you think the arrangement is ridiculous and stupid. With all due respect, unless you know the reason why the landlord insists on being paid in cash, it's difficult to express an opinion on the arrangement good,bad or indifferent...For all we know, the landlord might have had a bad experience with a previous tenant and to guard himself against a repeat he might insist on cash. .we just don't know, but what is clear is that he is perfectly entitled to do so, whatever the practicalities.
I acknowledge that such an arrangement wouldn't suit you but many people these days are stuck for somewhere to live and in similar difficult circumstances you might even find yourself willing to compromise.

Lemming

Regardless of any debate on whether or not it's perfectly safe to carry large sums of cash around - which is also completely replaceable should it be stolen ... , whether or not cards are the heathen work of the devil, and whether or not the landlord is dodgier than a dodgy butcher taking meat in the back door or perhaps a misunderstood paragon of virtue who spurns the temptations and vices of electronic banking lest it damn their soul; one thing that is undeniable is this: if the OP wishes to avail of a large loan or mortgage application in the none-too-distant future, cash-in-hand payments will have a very negative impact on their chances of a successful application. And by 'chances' I mean throwing a snowball into hell and expecing it to stay intact.

athtrasna

Mod note

Nox001 please stop dragging the thread off topic. If you can't stick to the topic as per the OP please don't post again on this thread.

L1985

Ok slightly shocked by everyone calling the landlord dodgy etc. My dad rents out a house was always getting cash then he decided to go DD. Tennant completely messed Him around and he lost a fortune. Now it's cash and it all goes through the books and give a receipt to the tennant every month. We text the tennant and fix a day/time each month that suits them. Lot easier for dad to monitor it and tenant is given plenty of notice. Nothing dodgy just as a result of being badly burned. The last tenant broke a window as well and never got it fixed which we didn't realise until he left so things like that will be spotted now. Doesn't impact on the couples privacy for a 5min transaction12times a year.ot would be a lot less than the OP mentioned though.

ED E

L1985 wrote: »

Ok slightly shocked by everyone calling the landlord dodgy etc. My dad rents out a house was always getting cash then he decided to go DD. Tennant completely messed Him around and he lost a fortune. Now it's cash and it all goes through the books and give a receipt to the tennant every month. We text the tennant and fix a day/time each month that suits them. Lot easier for dad to monitor it and tenant is given plenty of notice. Nothing dodgy just as a result of being badly burned. The last tenant broke a window as well and never got it fixed which we didn't realise until he left so things like that will be spotted now. Doesn't impact on the couples privacy for a 5min transaction12times a year.ot would be a lot less than the OP mentioned though.

Apples and oranges. Big time.

If I were renting in rural Galway at €400/mo paying cash would not be a problem but getting €3000 in cash every month for a Dublin 4 bed? Feck no. That means going to the ATM 8 days in 28 (excluding other cash) or queueing up during office hours at the cash desk which most cant do.

TheAnalyst_

I'm renting office space in Dublin for 12K per month. The landlord insists in coming buy once per month, nosing about and collecting it in cash. That's his prerogative I suppose.

davo10

ED E wrote: »

Apples and oranges. Big time.

If I were renting in rural Galway at €400/mo paying cash would not be a problem but getting €3000 in cash every month for a Dublin 4 bed? Feck no. That means going to the ATM 8 days in 28 (excluding other cash) or queueing up during office hours at the cash desk which most cant do.

It depends on what the lease agreement says and what the tenant agreed to. The LL has the right to rent the house and collect rent in any form they like/ state in the agreement. There is no provision in the RTA that states that rent must be paid by electronic transfer only, if the LL wants cash then an updated rent book is proof that rent is paid. If the op refuses to pay rent in the agreed manner, then they are in danger of eviction, if the shoe was on the other foot and the lease said the money had to be paid electronically, would you side with a tenant who refused to do this and insisted that the LL take cash every month, not likely.

Whether a LL is tax compliant is an issue between him/her and Revenue, the tenant is receiving the benefit of the property they are renting so he/she is not missing out on anything. Everyone can speculate about how "dodgy" this practice is, but unless you are privy to the LLs tax returns, that is all it is, speculation.

A bit of lateral thinking would prevent you from having to go to an ATM 8 times in 28 days. A high percentage of those machines are located a few steps from the front door of the bank.

davo10

athtrasna wrote: »

There are several reasons the landlord may be doing this. One of which is that they're not tax compliant, another is that they're hiding money for some reason, possibly from the bank of there's a chance they're in mortgage arrears. The calling round once a month is on dodgy legal ground as it would disturb your quiet enjoyment of the property.

So many alarm bells. As well as all the reasons you listed banks don't count cash withdrawals as rent when assessing your ability to pay a mortgage so this will work against you in so many ways.

Think it's time to reason with your landlord. I would be inclined to call the RTB first to see if your tenancy is registered as mentioning that it is/isn't may help your case.

Speculation. The tenants ability to obtain a mortgage in the future is not the concern of the LL and even if the tenancy is not registered so soon after the op moved in, a simple registration a small late fee will do the trick. The RTB do not have the right to dictate whether rent is paid electronically/draft/cheque/cash.

Irrespective of what method the LL requires payment to be made, the op has use of the property and pays rent. As long as both abide by tenancy regulations, the op is not in a position to dictate from the outset his/her chosen method of payment, be it electronic or cash.

The LL may have their reasons for collecting rent this way, it wouldn't be my choice but everyone to their own. Perhaps they do not have internet banking so they can't easily check every month that rent is being paid into their account. Some people get 3 monthly statements from their bank, it wouldn't be too nice to find that the tenant hasn't paid for a couple of months or was weeks late.

dr.fuzzenstein

I'd make sure to change the times around like crazy. Have him call at all hours. Change the date, change the time, "forget" the money a few times, ring him last minute "sorry, my mother is unwell, I have to check up on her", leave the money with an unfriendly, unwilling and surly neighbour, pay in vast sums of coins, let's see how long before he gets fed up of it.
I actually do have tenants (not in Ireland) and to LL who want the above hassle, what are you snorting? Have you not enough paperwork and hassle already? Do you like being awkward and make everyone's life miserable including your own? If you want to insist on this idiotic 19th century practice, why? Could you not spend your time doing something productive?
As a LL myself I can only say I would in my hole collect the rent in cash and anyone who does is at least a quarehog.

I have had rent paid to me via electronic banking for many years now with barely a hint of trouble. I'm sure that if you were to knock on 3-4 different doors to collect on cash every month, the hassle and problems would be many more than the money arriving in my account automatically on time, every time.

Perhaps they do not have internet banking so they can't easily check every month that rent is being paid into their account. Some people get 3 monthly statements from their bank, it wouldn't be too nice to find that the tenant hasn't paid for a couple of months or was weeks late.

Anyone that happens to has no business running a business. I wouldn't leave someone like that in charge of a flea circus.

davo10

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'd make sure to change the times around like crazy. Have him call at all hours. Change the date, change the time, "forget" the money a few times, ring him last minute "sorry, my mother is unwell, I have to check up on her", leave the money with an unfriendly, unwilling and surly neighbour, pay in vast sums of coins, let's see how long before he gets fed up of it.
I actually do have tenants (not in Ireland) and to LL who want the above hassle, what are you snorting? Have you not enough paperwork and hassle already? Do you like being awkward and make everyone's life miserable including your own? If you want to insist on this idiotic 19th century practice, why? Could you not spend your time doing something productive?
As a LL myself I can only say I would in my hole collect the rent in cash and anyone who does is at least a quarehog.

I have had rent paid to me via electronic banking for many years now with barely a hint of trouble. I'm sure that if you were to knock on 3-4 different doors to collect on cash every month, the hassle and problems would be many more than the money arriving in my account automatically on time, every time.



Anyone that happens to has no business running a business. I wouldn't leave someone like that in charge of a flea circus.

How you collect your rent is your prerogative, continued late/non payment can be grounds for eviction. Cash is still the preferred method of payment for many transactions and as there is no bar on it for payment of rent, then if that is what the LL wants, so be it.

For most landlords rental properties are not a "business", the majority of landlords have only one property, many are landlords not by choice.

Surely you are not saying that a business person's ability/success is dependent on having internet banking? Many successful business people wouldn't even know how to turn a computer on, equally many business people who are tech savvy are hopeless when it comes to running a business. I suspect a lot more internet businesses fail than flea circuses.

markpb

davo10 wrote:

Surely you are not saying that a business person's ability/success is dependent on having internet banking?

You don't need internet banking for someone to transfer money to you. You give someone your bank details and the money magically appears in your account. No technical knowledge needed.

Mrs OBumble

davo10 wrote: »

Surely you are not saying that a business person's ability/success is dependent on having internet banking? Many successful business people wouldn't even know how to turn a computer on, equally many business people who are tech savvy are hopeless when it comes to running a business. I suspect a lot more internet businesses fail than flea circuses.

I know a few not so tech-savvy older landlord types who finally pulled finger and learned to use a computer / internet banking when the fees for face to face transactions were increases.

markpb

markpb wrote: »

You don't need internet banking for someone to transfer money to you. You give someone your bank details and the money magically appears in your account. No technical knowledge needed.

Very hard to monitor your account though especially now with paper statements often only being issued quarterly.

davo10

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I know a few not so tech-savvy older landlord types who finally pulled finger and learned to use a computer / internet banking when the fees for face to face transactions were increases.

I agree with you, cash is inefficient and more costly in terms of time and fees. To you and me it is nonsensical to collect rent in cash, but, the op didn't ask about the most cost effective way to pay/receive rent, he/she asked about what options he/she has if the LL wants to be paid in cash, and the answer to that, as long as there is a rent book, is none.

CramCycle

Liam Brief Streetcar wrote: »

Very hard to monitor your account though especially now with paper statements often only being issued quarterly.

They will print out a sheet of transactions in the bank free of charge if all you want to do is review it.

exaisle

markpb wrote:

You don't need internet banking for someone to transfer money to you. You give someone your bank details and the money magically appears in your account. No technical knowledge needed.

No..but you need Internet banking to check whether the money has reached your account...or else you need to contact the bank by phone or on person.

Grolschevik

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

Iquarehog.

Brilliant! Never heard it before.

Scheissenhund!

The fact is that there really isn't much the op can do if the LL wants cash as he is entitled to be paid by the method of his choosing.

davo10

markpb wrote: »

You don't need internet banking for someone to transfer money to you. You give someone your bank details and the money magically appears in your account. No technical knowledge needed.

Not what I said in my post, read it again.

Here is what I posted: Perhaps they do not have internet banking so they can't easily check every month that rent is being paid into their account. Some people get 3 monthly statements from their bank, it wouldn't be too nice to find that the tenant hasn't paid for a couple of months or was weeks late.

dr.fuzzenstein

davo10 wrote: »

How you collect your rent is your prerogative, continued late/non payment can be grounds for eviction. Cash is still the preferred method of payment for many transactions and as there is no bar on it for payment of rent, then if that is what the LL wants, so be it.

For most landlords rental properties are not a "business", the majority of landlords have only one property, many are landlords not by choice.

Surely you are not saying that a business person's ability/success is dependent on having internet banking? Many successful business people wouldn't even know how to turn a computer on, equally many business people who are tech savvy are hopeless when it comes to running a business. I suspect a lot more internet businesses fail than flea circuses.

Cash is still the preferred method for buying a bag of sweets in the shop. For rent I prefer electronic.
Of course I could ask the tenant to go down to his bank, stand in line for half an hour, withdraw the cash (wasted lunch, half a day off), carry that around for maybe a few days, arrange to meet me at a time that's convenient for both of us, take the time to maybe drive there (if I don't live at the property), take time out from my job or sacrifice my lunch hour, stand in line for half an hour and maybe even hand over the cash to the same fcuking teller that handed it over a few days ago in the first place...

Of course its anyone's prerogative to do things in a daft way, for example if you want to dig a giant pit, drive your car into it, bury it in concrete and chisel it out again the next morning to do it all again that evening because it will deter thieves, yes that is absolutely your or anyone's prerogative.

As for doing business, at an absolute minimum to survive in any kind of business these days, you need email and internet banking. And not just for business, this goes for anyone in their daily lives. I just couldn't survive any other way, unless I was retired and I had time to queue every day at various bank and post office counters with an enormous bag of change that I would count out very slowly...
And you can bet that any successful business person that runs anything beyond a corner shop and who hasn't got a clue about computers will hire people who do. And I know absolutely clueless people who managed to build a website and Facebook page as well as operate Internet banking. And I'm talking about people who refer to the Internet Explorer icon as "the button for the Internet".
And yes, just being a geek doesn't mean success in business and certainly a LL could get away with running his business like it's the 60's, but being technology literate is a must these days and not just in business.

davo10

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Cash is still the preferred method for buying a bag of sweets in the shop. For rent I prefer electronic.
Of course I could ask the tenant to go down to his bank, stand in line for half an hour, withdraw the cash (wasted lunch, half a day off), carry that around for maybe a few days, arrange to meet me at a time that's convenient for both of us, take the time to maybe drive there (if I don't live at the property), take time out from my job or sacrifice my lunch hour, stand in line for half an hour and maybe even hand over the cash to the same fcuking teller that handed it over a few days ago in the first place...

Of course its anyone's prerogative to do things in a daft way, for example if you want to dig a giant pit, drive your car into it, bury it in concrete and chisel it out again the next morning to do it all again that evening because it will deter thieves, yes that is absolutely your or anyone's prerogative.

As for doing business, at an absolute minimum to survive in any kind of business these days, you need email and internet banking. And not just for business, this goes for anyone in their daily lives. I just couldn't survive any other way, unless I was retired and I had time to queue every day at various bank and post office counters with an enormous bag of change that I would count out very slowly...
And you can bet that any successful business person that runs anything beyond a corner shop and who hasn't got a clue about computers will hire people who do. And I know absolutely clueless people who managed to build a website and Facebook page as well as operate Internet banking. And I'm talking about people who refer to the Internet Explorer icon as "the button for the Internet".
And yes, just being a geek doesn't mean success in business and certainly a LL could get away with running his business like it's the 60's, but being technology literate is a must these days and not just in business.

The only relevant line in this post in relation to this thread is: "For rent I prefer electronic". In the op's case the LL prefers cash.

I agree with you, as a business owner I couldn't run my business with multiple transactions without internet banking but this probably isn't a business for the LL, it is a single monthly transaction and if he/she wants to transact in cash who are you or anyone else to tell him/her that they are doing something wrong or "dodgy" or that they are a bad business person. A good business person is one that provides a service and ensures they get paid for it.

athtrasna

Mod note

Can we get back to the topic at hand. There's a banking forum if you want to continue talking about banking issues.