Landlord insisting on cash payments - options

listermint

Copious amounts of tax dodging going on by some of the commentary on here.

Its lovely how your average paye worker is up to their noses in paying revenue and can't avoid it but you have absolute chancers ripping off the state with abandon.

12k in cash there's no way that lad is declaring properly

davo10

<mod snip: on thread discussion of moderation is a breach of the forum charter>

If the LL supplied a rent book he/she is compliant with every term of the RTA. That is very much on point with this thread.

Mrs OBumble

I guess the tenant could say that they dont feel comfortable carrying that amount of cash around, and so ask to meet at a bank branch each month rather than the house. Make it difficult for the ll.

exaisle

listermint wrote: »

Copious amounts of tax dodging going on by some of the commentary on here.

Its lovely how your average paye worker is up to their noses in paying revenue and can't avoid it but you have absolute chancers ripping off the state with abandon.

12k in cash there's no way that lad is declaring properly

Copious amounts of tax dodging?? As if a PAYE worker never did a nixer. As if mechanics employed in a garage don't to "private work". As if teachers never gave a grind. Whatever about tax dodging, it is certain that the self-employed do not hold the monopoly there....

Your average PAYE worker, up to 2015 paid €1650 less in Income Tax than a self employed person earning exactly the same.

Who are you to decide whether somebody is making a correct return or not. It's absolutely none of your business....that's between him and revenue.

The OP's landlord has decided that he wants to be paid in cash, so the OP has a choice, shape up or ship out. Tough.

Pkiernan

Anyone who thinks that the RTB would side with a landlord attempting to evict a tenant who pays the rent in full because the tenant wont pay in cash is a blithering idiot.

OP - tell the landlord you won't be paying in cash but will pay by cheque or transfer.

greendom

exaisle wrote: »

Copious amounts of tax dodging?? As if a PAYE worker never did a nixer. As if mechanics employed in a garage don't to "private work". As if teachers never gave a grind. Whatever about tax dodging, it is certain that the self-employed do not hold the monopoly there....

Your average PAYE worker, up to 2015 paid €1650 less in Income Tax than a self employed person earning exactly the same.

Who are you to decide whether somebody is making a correct return or not. It's absolutely none of your business....that's between him and revenue.

The OP's landlord has decided that he wants to be paid in cash, so the OP has a choice, shape up or ship out. Tough.

This unfortunately is the bottom line. If the landlord chooses to make unreasonable requests there's not a whole lot the tenant can do about it. The market is so stacked in their favour with the paucity of properties for tenants to choose from out there that this type of thing is becoming more and more common.

newacc2015

Pkiernan wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that the RTB would side with a landlord attempting to evict a tenant who pays the rent in full because the tenant wont pay in cash is a blithering idiot.

Really? Since it is within the first 6 months and if the tenant has no fixed term lease, they can be evicted without any reason. The RTB would not get involved in this...

lainey316

Re: mortgage questions earlier in thread - neither BoI nor EBS would accept rent in cash as proof of repayment capacity, even with a rent book. I had to agree with my landlord to pay 3 weeks rent to his account and the 4th week in cash.  And the bank will only count the 3 weeks.  It doesn't matter to us because we have DD savings to make up the repayment capacity but if you were tight on your mortgage it could make a big difference.
I used to be worried carrying the cash and it's not anywhere near what OP is paying. Also was away for work a lot so it was a pain to organise to ensure it was there on time; but he just comes in himself and takes it (no this doesn't bother me, we have a good relationship, but I can see how it wouldn't appeal to most people or on a new tenancy)

davo10

Pkiernan wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that the RTB would side with a landlord attempting to evict a tenant who pays the rent in full because the tenant wont pay in cash is a blithering idiot.

OP - tell the landlord you won't be paying in cash but will pay by cheque or transfer.

That's interesting. If the lease says rent to be paid in cash and the tenant refuses to do so, is non payment of rent not a cause for eviction? I was sure I read that somewhere, oh ya, its in the RTA. Again considering there is absolutely no bar on rent being paid in cash.

Fian

MissFlitworth wrote: »

We rented a house recently, through an agent. .

If you are in situ less than six months you have not acquired part IV tenancy rights. Your landlord is entitled to evict you without giving any reason (subject to any separate entitlements you might have under a signed lease).

In those circumstances i would be cautious about getting into conflict over this.

greendom

Fian wrote: »

If you are in situ less than six months you have not acquired part IV tenancy rights. Your landlord is entitled to evict you without giving any reason (subject to any separate entitlements you might have under a signed lease).

In those circumstances i would be cautious about getting into conflict over this.

That's not true if its a fixed term lease, is it?

listermint

exaisle wrote: »

Copious amounts of tax dodging?? As if a PAYE worker never did a nixer. As if mechanics employed in a garage don't to "private work". As if teachers never gave a grind. Whatever about tax dodging, it is certain that the self-employed do not hold the monopoly there....

Your average PAYE worker, up to 2015 paid €1650 less in Income Tax than a self employed person earning exactly the same.

Who are you to decide whether somebody is making a correct return or not. It's absolutely none of your business....that's between him and revenue.

The OP's landlord has decided that he wants to be paid in cash, so the OP has a choice, shape up or ship out. Tough.

Unless you have a trade, then yes there isnt opportunity for PAYE workers to 'do nixers'

The fact you have taken this to heart possibly means its cut to a bone.


No wonder there is so many landlords in Government its bloody easy to filter money away should you be that way inclined.


12K in cash! did you even read that posters post on the last page......


Legitimate my arse.

CramCycle

What does the lease say? If the lease says by Standing order, stick to your guns. If it doesn't, then he can ask for what he wants. You could argue the agreement was implicit but you may be arguing over nothing.

The OP can ask nicely, or maybe even contact the landlord direct and ask him are their alternatives. Work odd hours, hard to pick a date to meet etc.

Could you drop the cash into his bank account instead?

greendom

greendom wrote: »

That's not true if its a fixed term lease, is it?

Refusal to pay rent would be grounds to break the lease I'd imagine. If you are in a shop that doesn't take card you can't just take the stuff and then complain you weren't allowed to pay for it by the means of your choice when arrested for theft.

listermint wrote: »

Unless you have a trade, then yes there isnt opportunity for PAYE workers to 'do nixers'

You totally ignored the posters points about cash in hand work for people in PAYE. Over the years I have seen plenty of people doing cash in hand work on the side when in PAYE employment.

CramCycle wrote: »

Could you drop the cash into his bank account instead?

That would totally defeat the purpose, if he wants cash he obviously wants to get the cash directly into his hand.

exaisle

listermint wrote: »

Unless you have a trade, then yes there isnt opportunity for PAYE workers to 'do nixers'
The fact you have taken this to heart possibly means its cut to a bone.

No wonder there is so many landlords in Government its bloody easy to filter money away should you be that way inclined.

12K in cash! did you even read that posters post on the last page......
Legitimate my arse.

You don't have to have a trade to work for (undeclared) cash? What utter rubbish. But this is all a side issue.
The point I made repeatedly earlier in the thread was that whether or not the landlord was declaring all of the rent is irrelevant. It's no business of the OP. There is a tendency to assume that anybody receiving cash is not declaring it to revenue and this is by no means the case.
What is at question here is whether the landlord can demand that rent be paid in cash. If the lease does not specify that rent must be paid by any other method, then the landlord is quite within his rights demanding it in cash. The practicalities of this are questionable, but the legality is clear.

TheDoc

Danger781 wrote: »

How true is this? I currently pay my rent in cash every month also, but if this is going to affect my mortgage application then screw that, he can take bank transfer or I'm giving my notice.. :eek: I have a rent book..

I've heard this a few times mentioned around here and have always questioned it.

When I have gone for mortgage approval (granted it was before the new ECB rules) brokers and banks were pretty explicit in saying a history of rental payments had no bearing what so ever. I always found it weird as it was a documented, traceable history of me comfortably paying rent way above any mortage repayment at that time.

I was getting mortgage approval without it anyway(massive regret not being more wreckless and buying at the time)

I havn't looked into mortage approval since the new ECB rules since it just wiped out my prospects, but it would actually be a really good thing if this was finally being factored in.

Might have also been the banks or brokers I was dealing with at the time.

greendom

Liam Brief Streetcar wrote: »

Refusal to pay rent would be grounds to break the lease I'd imagine. If you are in a shop that doesn't take card you can't just take the stuff and then complain you weren't allowed to pay for it by the means of your choice when arrested for theft.



You totally ignored the posters points about cash in hand work for people in PAYE. Over the years I have seen plenty of people doing cash in hand work on the side when in PAYE employment.



That would totally defeat the purpose, if he wants cash he obviously wants to get the cash directly into his hand.

It's a bit of a stretch to say they are refusing to pay the rent.

TheDoc

For a slightly alternative view OP, my first landlord had a preference for cash. While in my brain and to myself I was immediately wondering, questioning and assuming, I put together the conclusion I was dealing with an accidental/one property LL and if he wanted to cut a few corners to pocket a few extra quid, who am I to act as revenue.

We ended up striking a deal where he got cash (he'd just drop around and I'd meet him outside the gates, he never actually came in) and I knocked €100 of the monthly rent for accommodating his request.

I tend to be one of those that doesn't mind bending some rules or turning a blind eye if there is something tangible there for me.

I suppose the flipside is this was back when tenants could actually negotiate and it wasn't a wild west market, and the final rent was €700, much less then yours. Don't know how comfortable I'd be doing it with €1500+.

I guess it's probably just best practice that everything is done by bank transfer, but I'd be surprised if there is anything legally binding to force that to be the case. I'd imagine landlords can request payment in whatever method they want. Of course we are probably happily assuming he wants cash because he is "dodgy" but at the same time he could be 100% tax compliant.

I know guys who operate their business's via cash, as the old saying goes "cash is king" and they can negotiate really good deals on suppliers or equipment by offering cash. So while they are tax compliant, they have cash reserves to sweeten a deal with maybe a supplier who isn't

I guess by just going by your post, you don't seem comfortable with the alternative view or working out if there is maybe a benefit you can take. So probably just no harm in looking to speak with the LL or whatever and advising you would prefer paying in bank transfer, which is by far and large the standard, and best practice in this country?

listermint

exaisle wrote: »

You don't have to have a trade to work for (undeclared) cash? What utter rubbish. But this is all a side issue.
The point I made repeatedly earlier in the thread was that whether or not the landlord was declaring all of the rent is irrelevant. It's no business of the OP. There is a tendency to assume that anybody receiving cash is not declaring it to revenue and this is by no means the case.
What is at question here is whether the landlord can demand that rent be paid in cash. If the lease does not specify that rent must be paid by any other method, then the landlord is quite within his rights demanding it in cash. The practicalities of this are questionable, but the legality is clear.

Who am i to act as revenue?

Well im a tax payer and the services like water funding and i dont know our health services roads public amenities the ones my wages are being gouged for id shop the fella in a second and id be happy doing it.

Theres too much nod and a wink nonsense in this country, its left over from the british and plantation mentality were people think they are winning by pulling one over on the state.

Any landlord that asked me to go to my bank monthly to pull out 1600 Euro cash would be getting a nice investigation from the revenue services. and good enough for them.

Oh and not to mention you'd be shagged for a mortgage and complicit in Tax avoidance.

Lumen

TheDoc wrote: »

We ended up striking a deal where he got cash (he'd just drop around and I'd meet him outside the gates, he never actually came in) and I knocked €100 of the monthly rent for accommodating his request.

I tend to be one of those that doesn't mind bending some rules or turning a blind eye if there is something tangible there for me.

You're admitting to enabling tax evasion and splitting the proceeds.

I know this isn't particularly unusual but it's difficult to make a moral case for doing so.

Paulw

Mod Note: Thread going wild and being far from constructive. Thread closed.