Is the end of the road for landlords coming ?

DrPhilG

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its actually fine- its covered under the reciprochal tax arrangements we have with them. The messy bit is property tax, filing returns, council taxes (where appropriate) and all the other messy bits that you might normally expect with any property (insurance etc).

I've thought about Spanish investment myself. Might have a word with my accountant here to see how the lay of the land goes.

76544567

Ethan Rough Saber wrote: »

On what grounds are they bringing a case to the RTB?

I haven't spoken to them yet. I'll phone them tomorrow when I cool off. It was a very aggressive email.
From the sound of the email anything will do them. Anything that drags out their tenancy.for as.long as possible.
But everything is is in order with the notice etc so they shouldn't win. Won't stop them dragging it out though.
They mentioned waiting to the last day of the notice and then lodging a complaint and if the RTB don't believe them then I better prepare for court.

Claw Hammer

76544567 wrote: »

I haven't spoken to them yet. I'll phone them tomorrow when I cool off. It was a very aggressive email.
From the sound of the email anything will do them. Anything that drags out their tenancy.for as.long as possible.
But everything is is in order with the notice etc so they shouldn't win. Won't stop them dragging it out though.
They mentioned waiting to the last day of the notice and then lodging a complaint and if the RTB don't believe them then I better prepare for court.

You might think everything is in order with the notice but the RTB are very inventive at finding notices invalid.

76544567

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You might think everything is in order with the notice but the RTB are very inventive at finding notices invalid.

I'm resigned now to this being very difficult anyway. And that it will drag out regardless of the RTB. Still shocked that it was this couple.

Claw Hammer

76544567 wrote: »

I'm resigned now to this being very difficult anyway. And that it will drag out regardless of the RTB. Still shocked that it was this couple.

The more comfortable you make it for people the less they like it when they have to move. You are obviously not cut out to be a landlord.

murphaph

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The more comfortable you make it for people the less they like it when they have to move. You are obviously not cut out to be a landlord.

He won't be soon (hopefully) and his tenants will be looking for a new place with no reference. And one more rental property will be removed from the sector.

the_syco

76544567 wrote: »

I'm resigned now to this being very difficult anyway. And that it will drag out regardless of the RTB. Still shocked that it was this couple.

If their RTB case fails, and they still decide to stay, consider offering the deposit no questions asked on the day they move out. It'll probably work out cheaper in the long run.

antoinolachtnai

It is a time when people are acting oddly. Apart from a housing crisis, the world seems to be falling apart. They will cool down in a while.

If they underpay the rent as they propose, you would be in a position to give them a 14-day notice and then 28-day notice. You could also give them notice that you are planning to sell. This will at least bring the whole thing to a head as early as possible.

If this is a professional couple with savings then it is very unlikely to be a good idea for them to overhold or stop paying rent or any of that stuff. The problem for them is that there is a very real chance that they willl face a bill of damages from you, and all the associated costs, if they overhold, especially if an order of possession has been granted.

RTB has additional powers now which may well make it easier to get possession orders against tenants.

You could negotiate with them on a 'without prejudice' basis and offer them cash to leave immediately as suggested.

You are in a serious situation, but it is not all bad here. You are going to need a solicitor anyway to sell so I I would get some legal advice right away.

Claw Hammer

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The problem for them is that there is a very real chance that they willl face a bill of damages from you, and all the associated costs, if they overhold, especially if an order of possession has been granted.

RTB has additional powers now which may well make it easier to get possession orders against tenants.

All they will owe the o/p is the rent (less than market) which becomes due between now and a determination.

What additional powers has the RTB got. Its powers have in fact been reduced.
The tenants can mess around quite a lot with no costs penalty. They have already been given notice of termination and they are acting up. 14 day and 28 day notices don't make a blind bit of difference.

76544567

A friend of mine owns the apartment next door. He is getting out too but his is empty at the moment and he will only be using it for himself afor a few nights a month.

They know nothing about this so I might have the last laugh.

antoinolachtnai

The poster needs legal advice, not Internet forum views. It is both untrue and unhelpful to say that 14 day and 28 day notices do not make any difference.

The RTB now has the power to grant a possession order (section 49 of the 2016 Act) and the process is considerably streamlined (section 48).

If the tenant has savings, they would be ill-advised to obstruct the sale of the property they are renting by overholding, especially where there is a possession order.

April 73

I hope that it is an initial over-reaction to the notification that you I tend to sell. They have heard so much negatively slanted media coverage about bad landlords using false notices to sell to move tenants out that they may be falling prey to "bad landlord victimhood".

Hate to say it but it's a lesson not to be too generous to tenants.

I do hope if they are fundamentally decent that they will row back on their agressive & confrontational approach. Personally I wouldn't respond to that agressive email at all. Just professional official responses at the appropriate times.

testaccount123

76544567 wrote: »

A friend of mine owns the apartment next door. He is getting out too but his is empty at the moment and he will only be using it for himself afor a few nights a month.

They know nothing about this so I might have the last laugh.

What do you mean by this?

76544567

testaccount123 wrote: »

What do you mean by this?

I wont go into it any further, but now I have options.

Grolschevik

76544567 wrote:

I wont go into it any further, but now I have options.

I wouldn't try anything like causing a nuisance through noise etc. Not worth it. Stay within the bounds of the rtb determination process. If that's what you're implying you might do.

4ensic15

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The RTB now has the power to grant a possession order (section 49 of the 2016 Act) and the process is considerably streamlined (section 48).

.

Only the court can grant a possession order under Section 49. The RTB still only has the role of making the determination order. The process is not streamlined very much.

antoinolachtnai

You are correct, but it is a little better. I understand that the requirement to have a board meeting to issue a determination did result in delays.

4ensic15

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You are correct, but it is a little better. I understand that the requirement to have a board meeting to issue a determination did result in delays.

Typical Irish administration. Calling a minor procedural improvement a major step forward. Sections 48 and 49 haven't even commenced yet, so it is as you were.

athtrasna

76544567 wrote: »

I wont go into it any further, but now I have options.

Mod note

Please take this issue to a separate thread as the discussion of this issue is dragging this thread off topic.

Posters are asked not to comment further on this poster's current issue on this thread. Thanks

dashoonage

Didnt know where to put this...3100 a month short term let

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/dublin-4/the-gasworks-barrow-street-dublin-4-dublin-4-dublin-1613536/

be jaysus lads...

murphaph

dashoonage wrote: »

Didnt know where to put this...3100 a month short term let

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/dublin-4/the-gasworks-barrow-street-dublin-4-dublin-4-dublin-1613536/

be jaysus lads...

The likes of Google would rent that for an employee over from a foreign office for a few weeks and it would be a good deal cheaper than a business hotel for the equivalent duration. We've a new boss in our office in Berlin and the company has rented a short term apartment like that for him until he gets settled. The LL obviously doesn't have 100% occupancy with such arrangements so needs to charge a lot more than with a "regular" letting.

pilly

dashoonage wrote: »

Didnt know where to put this...3100 a month short term let

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/dublin-4/the-gasworks-barrow-street-dublin-4-dublin-4-dublin-1613536/

be jaysus lads...

There's a thread called funny places to rent, I'll copy it in there.

The_Conductor

pilly wrote: »

There's a thread called funny places to rent, I'll copy it in there.

Why?
Short term executive class lets- have been around forever.
This particular property ticks all the boxes.

handlemaster

I seen there were calls by a homeless association that tenants not be allowed be evictéd to homelessness. Why would anyone bother paying rent then any more with this nonsience.

GGTrek

4ensic15 wrote: »

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You are correct, but it is a little better. I understand that the requirement to have a board meeting to issue a determination did result in delays.

Typical Irish administration. Calling a minor procedural improvement a major step forward. Sections 48 and 49 haven't even commenced yet, so it is as you were.

There must be a legal reason why a determination for possession issued by the RTB cannot be made immediately enforceable without having to go through the Circuit Court (at the moment). The courts of Ireland consider the RTB an administrative tribunal. Could this be the reason? I mean the delay in enforcing the RTB determinations is a major drawback of the whole process.

newacc2015

dashoonage wrote: »

Didnt know where to put this...3100 a month short term let

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/dublin-4/the-gasworks-barrow-street-dublin-4-dublin-4-dublin-1613536/

be jaysus lads...

It is a short term let though...

Renting a car in the apartment is more expensive than going to a dealer and asking for HP agreement. Letting something short term is going to be more expensive than renting long term.

If I just moved to Dublin with a spouse, I would find it good value than staying in a hotel for 2 weeks

4ensic15

GGTrek wrote: »

There must be a legal reason why a determination for possession issued by the RTB cannot be made immediately enforceable without having to go through the Circuit Court (at the moment). The courts of Ireland consider the RTB an administrative tribunal. Could this be the reason? I mean the delay in enforcing the RTB determinations is a major drawback of the whole process.

The legal reason is that the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 requires it. It has nothing to do with the opinion of the courts as to whether the RTB is or is not an administrative tribunal. It is because the Oireachtas decided it should be so.

murphaph

I'd be interested to see how often a decision by the RTB tribunal is overturned by the courts when taken there. So of all the "appealed" cases, what percentage does the court agree/disagree with the RTB's determination. If the RTB were on the mark more or less all the time, then they could be trusted to be able to make final and legally binding determinations that can only be appealed on points of law (like ABP). If on the other hand, the RTB determinations were found to be wanting, the RTB tribunal stage should be abolished and it should all be decided in court.

4ensic15

murphaph wrote: »

I'd be interested to see how often a decision by the RTB tribunal is overturned by the courts when taken there. So of all the "appealed" cases, what percentage does the court agree/disagree with the RTB's determination. If the RTB were on the mark more or less all the time, then they could be trusted to be able to make final and legally binding determinations that can only be appealed on points of law (like ABP). If on the other hand, the RTB determinations were found to be wanting, the RTB tribunal stage should be abolished and it should all be decided in court.

There is an application to the Circuit Court for enforcement. There is no recorded case of the Court not enforcing the determination. There have been about 10 appeals to the High Court on points of law. The Board has lost a few times. The Board has also lost a few judicial reviews.

Lux23

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/landlord-body-rebuked-for-telling-members-to-introduce-charges-1.2944666