Is the end of the road for landlords coming ?

amcalester

Lux23 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/landlord-body-rebuked-for-telling-members-to-introduce-charges-1.2944666

Unless I missed it, there's nothing in there to say that landlords can't unilaterally decide to start imposing charges on tenants. Just that the IPOA was wrong to suggest it.

GGTrek

The commencement order was given by Coveney on the 17th of January, so repeal of section 42, Tyrrelstown amendment and the lot are now enforceable:
http://www.rtb.ie/search-results/news/article/2017/01/19/further-changes-to-policy-and-the-law
http://ipoa.ie/industry-information/

76544567

Lux23 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/landlord-body-rebuked-for-telling-members-to-introduce-charges-1.2944666

You gotta laugh when it comes to that being called anti-competitive yet rent control at below the market rate and removal of owner control of landlords properties is not.

Im trying to get out quick ahead of the stampede to get out.
Even since yesterday Id think that a lot of LLs have made the decision to get out.

If it happens too fast then there will probably be some new law to stop us getting out, so im moving now.

Lux23

amcalester wrote: »

Unless I missed it, there's nothing in there to say that landlords can't unilaterally decide to start imposing charges on tenants. Just that the IPOA was wrong to suggest it.

A group of landlords can't decide together to start charging new fees under competition law, but they can by themselves I suppose. Having said that this may be seen as trying to circumvent the law introduced before Christmas so I don't think its possible. I know if my landlord started to charge me random services, I would bring it to the RTB and see what happens.

76544567

amcalester wrote: »

Unless I missed it, there's nothing in there to say that landlords can't unilaterally decide to start imposing charges on tenants. Just that the IPOA was wrong to suggest it.

Also nothing to stop the IPOA listing all of the extra charges that they tink can be sought. They just cant advise you to implement them.

testaccount123

Lux23 wrote: »

A group of landlords can't decide together to start charging new fees under competition law, but they can by themselves I suppose. Having said that this may be seen as trying to circumvent the law introduced before Christmas so I don't think its possible. I know if my landlord started to charge me random services, I would bring it to the RTB and see what happens.

Or you could just ignore the charges.

amcalester

testaccount123 wrote: »

Or you could just ignore the charges.

New tenants may not have that option.

I wonder how long until we see Estate Agents offering their services free of charge to landlords and charge prospective tenants instead.

testaccount123

More Walter Mitty nonsense.

76544567

amcalester wrote: »

New tenants may not have that option.

I wonder how long until we see Estate Agents offering their services free of charge to landlords and charge prospective tenants instead.

The agents I was using actually suggested that themselves if I was to stay with them. I think its definitely the way its going to go.
That will be 10% on top of the rent for anyone using an agent. and with all of the administration and dotting and crossing now everyone will go with an agent.

The_Conductor

amcalester wrote: »

New tenants may not have that option.

I wonder how long until we see Estate Agents offering their services free of charge to landlords and charge prospective tenants instead.

I've had two companies- one in Dublin and one in Galway suggest this to me in the last few days- apparently, its what the property management agencies are introducing en-mass. There was a bit of an inevitability to it. Seems to be driven by the property management companies themselves- rather than by landlords.

amcalester

The_Conductor wrote: »

I've had two companies- one in Dublin and one in Galway suggest this to me in the last few days- apparently, its what the property management agencies are introducing en-mass. There was a bit of an inevitability to it. Seems to be driven by the property management companies themselves- rather than by landlords.

Once a few firms start offering it then the rest will follow and landlords will just hand over the admin aide of things to the agency who will charge the tenant for any and every admin task.

murphaph

testaccount123 wrote: »

More Walter Mitty nonsense.

This (tenants pay agents' fees) was the way it was done in Germany for decades until it was banned (just recently). It will almost certainly happen in Ireland unless it's banned there too.

Lux23

76544567 wrote: »

Also nothing to stop the IPOA listing all of the extra charges that they tink can be sought. They just cant advise you to implement them.

They can't do that under competition law.

Lux23

testaccount123 wrote: »

Or you could just ignore the charges.

Why would any sensible person do that?

76544567

Lux23 wrote: »

They can't do that under competition law.

Let me rephrase that.
They can just publish you what you can possibly do should you decide you wish to do it yourself.

testaccount123

Lux23 wrote: »

Why would any sensible person do that?

Because some arbitrary charge has no basis in contract law.

P.S. Ive sent you a bill for reading your post, please pay it ASAP

76544567

amcalester wrote: »

Once a few firms start offering it then the rest will follow and landlords will just hand over the admin aide of things to the agency who will charge the tenant for any and every admin task.

Another thing that was suggested to me was that the LL would rent an apartment to an agency for X amount.
The agency will then sublet for Y amount.
LL only deals with agent.

amcalester

testaccount123 wrote: »

Because some arbitrary charge has no basis in contract law.

P.S. Ive sent you a bill for reading your post, please pay it ASAP

These charges will (likely) be imposed on new tenants not sitting tenants, all the landlord/agent has to do is detail the charges on the lease.

Lux23

76544567 wrote: »

Let me rephrase that.
They can just publish you what you can possibly do should you decide you wish to do it yourself.

No they can't. Even by listing something like that you could fall afoul of competition law.

Michael D Not Higgins

Lux23 wrote: »

No they can't. Even by listing something like that you could fall afoul of competition law.

Also considering IPOA's row back on their press release, they won't be publishing anything like that again.

76544567

It will be interesting to see how supply of rentals in Dublin go in the next month or two with nobody moving and landlords getting out.
I've been checking in my area and the supply is on a serious downward trajectory.
I expect that to continue.

pilly

76544567 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how supply of rentals in Dublin go in the next month or two with nobody moving and landlords getting out.
I've been checking in my area and the supply is on a serious downward trajectory.
I expect that to continue.

My property will definitely be off the market come February and from word of mouth a lot more will be this year. It's sell up time. Now maybe this is a good thing for the people looking to buy so that could be the plus side to it. Doesn't help anyone who can't afford to buy at the moment though.

testaccount123

testaccount123 wrote: »

Or you could just ignore the charges.

Expect an eviction notice in the post in that case.

The_Conductor

pilly wrote: »

My property will definitely be off the market come February and from word of mouth a lot more will be this year. It's sell up time. Now maybe this is a good thing for the people looking to buy so that could be the plus side to it. Doesn't help anyone who can't afford to buy at the moment though.

Flipside of that coin- is ~40% of the market has been investors- who aren't going to touch a pre-existing property with a bargepole- as they'll be bound to the 4% rule- so your pool of prospective purchasers is going to be a whole lot smaller than it would have been just a year ago. First time buyers- aren't going to look, as it won't qualify for the grant either.........

Its entirely predictable that new properties in 'pressure zones' are going to shoot up in price- but prices for second hand properties could very well nose dive.

pilly

The_Conductor wrote: »

Flipside of that coin- is ~40% of the market has been investors- who aren't going to touch a pre-existing property with a bargepole- as they'll be bound to the 4% rule- so your pool of prospective purchasers is going to be a whole lot smaller than it would have been just a year ago. First time buyers- aren't going to look, as it won't qualify for the grant either.........

Its entirely predictable that new properties in 'pressure zones' are going to shoot up in price- but prices for second hand properties could very well nose dive.

Fair points yeah. A lot of people also looking for a larger family home though which mine is. I couldn't care less at the moment tbh, it's costing me money, hassle, stress and time so just want rid before AAA or some other nutter decides I can't sell my own property.

The_Conductor

pilly wrote: »

Fair points yeah. A lot of people also looking for a larger family home though which mine is. I couldn't care less at the moment tbh, it's costing me money, hassle, stress and time so just want rid before AAA or some other nutter decides I can't sell my own property.

It would definitely be interesting if you started your own thread- and had a blog on how the sale goes, your experiences and happenings- in the current market?

pilly

The_Conductor wrote: »

It would definitely be interesting if you started your own thread- and had a blog on how the sale goes, your experiences and happenings- in the current market?

Will do, good idea Conductor.

testaccount123

Ethan Rough Saber wrote: »

Expect an eviction notice in the post in that case.

:rolleyes:

syndrome777

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/my-landlord-is-increasing-our-rent-despite-rent-freeze-do-we-have-to-pay-up-35383973.html

what is she saying now? that the LL can charge more than 4% even now?

4ensic15

syndrome777 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/my-landlord-is-increasing-our-rent-despite-rent-freeze-do-we-have-to-pay-up-35383973.html

what is she saying now? that the LL can charge more than 4% even now?

That article seems to be very poor on detail. It doesn't say whether the property in question is inside or outside a rent pressure zone. If inside a zone the 4% applies. If outside it does not.