Oxford Students Encouraged to Now Use "Ze" Instead of "He or She" To Avoid Offen

CFlat

Ze's electric ze's in a family full of eccentrics, ze's done things I've never......

hannible the cannible

I shall continue to call them silly cnuts

Yourself isit

tonygun wrote: »

You don't just change language, it evolves and varies constantly. You think Oxford Student Union are going to change the English language, with all it's forms and dialects the world over, because they circulate a leaflet on campus?

Well as eddy opined, it's not just Oxford. Day to day conversations may not change but professional conversations will if this takes off in Oxford. That is if these Oxford graduates become entrenched in industry and government, which isn't a long shot.

Wanderer78

Fcuk off world!

Dr Jakub

Yourself isit wrote: »

Well as eddy opined, it's not just Oxford. Day to day conversations may not change but professional conversations will if this takes off in Oxford. That is if these Oxford graduates become entrenched in industry and government, which isn't a long shot.

I'm waiting for the day when some guy shoots up an office because HR fired him for using politically incorrect pronouns.

Ulysses Gaze

biko wrote: »

Oxford loves PC

Yet still awards a scholarship in the name of a White Supremacist.

No-one ever said they weren't hypocrites though :P

Ted_YNWA

It can only be he/she or it for a singular pronoun.

It would be worse to call gender neutrals "it" as opposed to the wrong he/she.

TheAnalyst_

I'm transgender and you have no idea how incredibly diffictult it has made my life at times. I didn't chose to be like this and its the tiniest little courtesy to use this form rather than have me suffer massive anxiety about people deliberately choosing the wrong form to offend me.

Dr Jakub

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I'm transgender and you have no idea how incredibly diffictult it has made my life at times. I didn't chose to be like this and its the tiniest little courtesy to use this form rather than have me suffer massive anxiety about people deliberately choosing the wrong form to offend me.

You might have a had a tough time but you can't expect to socially engineer society to accommodate your mental health issues.


Mod-Banned

ceadaoin.

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I'm transgender and you have no idea how incredibly diffictult it has made my life at times. I didn't chose to be like this and its the tiniest little courtesy to use this form rather than have me suffer massive anxiety about people deliberately choosing the wrong form to offend me.

In most cases it probably isn't deliberate. Just an honest mistake. If someone is doing it constantly, despite being corrected then they (see, that wasn't awkward at all) are an arsehole.

Expecting people to change their language is a bit unreasonable to be honest. It would be very difficult to do this and still have a natural conversation

TheAnalyst_

Dr Jakub wrote: »

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I'm transgender and you have no idea how incredibly diffictult it has made my life at times. I didn't chose to be like this and its the tiniest little courtesy to use this form rather than have me suffer massive anxiety about people deliberately choosing the wrong form to offend me.

You might have a had a tough time but you can't expect to socially engineer society to accommodate your mental health issues.

There you go. Mental health. I'm just a wrong un according to you. That is the language of hate.

The Specialist

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

There you go. Mental health. I'm just a wrong un according to you. That is the language of hate.

There's no hate in that post. It might be unpopular to you, but the fact is that feelings don't trump human biology. You are a man or woman and that's it. No amount of pandering to this ridiculous new ideology of different genders gender states is going to change that.

People with these feelings need mental help, but unfortunately we now have a generation who have gone so far over the edge of political correctness that it will never happen. Logic is shouted down in this "brave" new world.

20Cent

Dr Jakub wrote: »

You might have a had a tough time but you can't expect to socially engineer society to accommodate your mental health issues.

Ur a Wanker.

Grayson

20Cent wrote: »

Ur a Wanker.

Take a look at his posting history. The irony of someone like that trying to point out mental health issues in others is boggling.

Chain Smoker

It's not too hard to completely ignore these things rather than repeatedly getting annoyed about some randomers suggestion. It's not too hard to avoid using a gender specific pronoun at a time where it seems like it may not be appropriate, and you can do it without needing to learn new words too. It's pretty convenient to find out early that someone is gonna be touchy as **** when they take serious offense to an honest mistake.

Frigating

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I'm transgender and you have no idea how incredibly diffictult it has made my life at times. I didn't chose to be like this and its the tiniest little courtesy to use this form rather than have me suffer massive anxiety about people deliberately choosing the wrong form to offend me.

Well are you a man or a woman? If you're a man I'll call you him, if you're a woman I'll call you her. No need for anything else. I respect that you're transgender but that just means you're the opposite gender to what you were born as, you don't need force people to use new words just cause you feel different.

osarusan

Thinking over different situations, I'm struggling to find any scenario in which the existing word 'they' would not solve the problem.

As such, it seems to be as much about making a point as it is about actually solving a problem.

Having said that, it's a suggestion that I'd say virtually nobody will act on.

pickarooney

tonygun wrote: »

Use 'they'

'They' is just plain wrong though; it's a plural pronoun. It illustrates perfectly why a neutral singular one is needed.

'Ze' is already a letter in the American alphabet. They could find a better one.

osarusan

pickarooney wrote: »

'They' is just plain wrong though; it's a plural pronoun. It illustrates perfectly why a neutral singular one is needed.

It isn't always though. Where the sex/identity of a person is unknown, 'they' could be (and is) used.

wakka12

could they not have thought of a word that would be a less jarring substitute for he or she in a sentence, 'ze' completely breaks up most english sentences and makes them sound stupid. Where is ze? Will ze go to the shop today?

The Wolverine

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I'm transgender and you have no idea how incredibly diffictult it has made my life at times. I didn't chose to be like this and its the tiniest little courtesy to use this form rather than have me suffer massive anxiety about people deliberately choosing the wrong form to offend me.

Eh heres a shock, if people deliberately use the wrong form to offend you then demanding they use ze isn't gonna make any ****ing difference

pickarooney

osarusan wrote: »

It isn't always though. Where the sex/identity of a person is unknown, 'they' could be (and is) used.

It's used because there's no proper word there.
It's a bit like not having a word for these strange brown people you meet in America and using 'Indian' instead.

Pac1Man

What happens if they get offended by an innocent 'mistake' though?

Not much I suspect, so not much to worry about.

pickarooney

coolbeans wrote: »

Interesting one this. Apart from inciting the 'PC GONE MAD" brigade beautifully it brings to mind the English language's lack of, or its loss of the gender neutral pronoun. 'One' seems to have been dropped completely while in Ireland we use 'ye' which is very effective in my opinion. In summary, if they're going down this road, which makes a lot of sense if ye stop to reflect on it, I think they should copy Hiberno-English and adopt 'ye'. 'Ze' is too German.

What does one think?
What do ye think?
What do ze think?

'Ye' is used instead of the missing English pronoun for plural 'you'. A different, but related, issue.

20Cent

The headline says "told
First paragraph says "urged"
By the tird paragraph it's a "suggestion" and we find out that it's made in a leaflet


No wonder th alt right are so upset they rarely read past the headline or first paragraph before being triggered.

gizmo555

Widdershins wrote: »

A Male-to-Female transgender woman tried to float the idea of using ''It''. She couldn't see why everyone thought it was a horrible idea.

Like this?

It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5QaeQiO3d0

pickarooney

coolbeans wrote: »

I don't think so. There's a genuine need for a gender neutral singular/plural pronoun like 'on' in French or 'sie' in German.

'sie' is feminine. ('Sie' is neutral plural. 'Man' is, ironically, the closest thing to a neutral singular).

Jimmy Garlic

Blaire White hits the nail on the head every time...

pickarooney

benjamin d wrote: »

How is that awkward? It makes perfect sense and always has.
This really is creating an issue where none exists.

Not really. 'They' for a single person is a relatively recent phenomenon. Before that, the default for unknown sex was always 'he', 'his' etc.

'Someone forgot his coat' is grammatically correct.
'Someone forgot their coat' is politically correct.
Neither satisfies both criteria.

pickarooney

Yourself isit wrote: »

It's about power. Oxford elites have the right to change the language. You don't.

Of course you do. The Oxford dictionary adds words every year based on what the hoi polloi make up and use, not on what an Oxbridge don prescribes. It's one of the most democratic processes in existence, and rightly so.

osarusan

pickarooney wrote: »

Not really. 'They' for a single person is a relatively recent phenomenon. Before that, the default for unknown sex was always 'he', 'his' etc.

This is not correct.

Use of 'they' as a singular indefinite pronoun is centuries old.

It was supplanted (prescriptively) by 'he' only in the late 19th century.

ceadaoin.

pickarooney wrote: »

Not really. 'They' for a single person is a relatively recent phenomenon. Before that, the default for unknown sex was always 'he', 'his' etc.

'Someone forgot his coat' is grammatically correct.
'Someone forgot their coat' is politically correct.
Neither satisfies both criteria.

Accord to the Oxford English Dictionary, "they" has been used as a singular pronoun since at least the 16th century.

jonon9

You got to wonder where society is going with this pure drivel. Cant upset the snowflakes.

Didas

jonon9 wrote: »

You got to wonder where society is going with this pure drivel. Cant upset the snowflakes.

The only people getting upset seems to be those who use terms like 'snowflake', as usual.

...And Justice

jonon9 wrote: »

You got to wonder where society is going with this pure drivel. Cant upset the snowflakes.

Generation cupcake, the world is fcuked.

Barry Badrinath

tonygun wrote: »

The only people getting upset seems to be those who use terms like 'snowflake', as usual.

Are the Student Union and Transgender population not also upset with the "misuse" of "he" and "she"?

OU812

According to the Oxford English Dictionary - The OED is the definitive record of the English language, featuring 600000 words , 3 million quotations, and over 1000 years of English.

"Ze" or "Zie" Pronunciation: Zee
Pronoun
1. Occasionally used with a singular indefinite pronoun or singular noun antecedent in place of the definite masculine he or the definite feminine she.

And since they write the book, I think they're kinda allowed do it. Although I don't see it catching on.

jonon9

tonygun wrote: »

The only people getting upset seems to be those who use terms like 'snowflake', as usual.

Im sorry did I hit a soft spot.

Mousewar

My dad (in his 60s) started in Oxford last year and was indeed asked which pronoun he preferred - he she, or ze.
The look of bewilderment on his face could have turned milk. He still hasn't recovered from it tbh.

Atari Jaguar

...And Justice wrote: »

The gender neutral toilet thing is crazy, I wouldn't want to be in cubicle next to a female employee having her daily scutter after the vino the night before.

In 2016 having "ladies" and "gents" toilets is ****ing stupid.

D0NNELLY

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Between this and the pumpkin spice lattes thread the world is getting dafter by the day. A well known Irish company has just put in a gender neutral toilet in addition to the existing male and female toilets to facilitate at the demands of one of their staff members who is going through a sex change. I find that bonkers to be honest.

Your either male or female and that's the end of it. Fair enough if you want to change, just pick one ffs. This gender neutral, gender fluidity is such a load of modern PC guff and is driving people mad.

Luckily i only cross paths with it on here.

Satriale

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I actually do think there should be a neutral pronoun created. I hate having to say he/she when using a hypothetical example.

These are doing it for the wrong reasons

Yes, one should use a neutral pronoun is such situations...

:P

nice_guy80

Ze Germans

pauliebdub

This is why we end up with Nigel Farage and Donald Trump.

...And Justice

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

In 2016 having "ladies" and "gents" toilets is ****ing stupid.

Good Lord Jesus, I'd prefer to sluice out a log around men than listening to women pissing and scattering all over the Jack's.

RayCun

All the poor little snowflakes getting worked up because people they've never met, in a place they've never been, in a leaflet they haven't even read, apparently said something that offends them.

Some people want the whole world to be their safe space.

The_Valeyard

...And Justice wrote: »

Good Lord Jesus, I'd prefer to sluice out a log around men than listening to women pissing and scattering all over the Jack's.

I hear it sounds like a helicopter taking off

darkpagandeath

Who is getting offended by he and she ? Jesus imagine our language was based on Masculine and feminine. When in France do they get outraged at chocolate or does it get to decide how it self identifies ?

Yourself isit

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

In 2016 having "ladies" and "gents" toilets is ****ing stupid.

It's just soo 2015. (And millenia before that).

...And Justice

World war 3 is needed to reset the earth, people have gone fcuking crazy.