Oxford Students Encouraged to Now Use "Ze" Instead of "He or She" To Avoid Offen

...And Justice

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I hear it sounds like a helicopter taking off

The reason why I have my own toilet in the house. 3 women living in my house and they're all scutterhawks.

Wildlife Actor

"They" works and always has.

The fact that "they" catches plurals doesn't stop it catching singular references. After all "you" has happily covered both since forever (unless the Don's are going to take on the Cork "ye" or worse the Cavan "youse" while they're at it).

The apparent offence caused to trans people is a nonsense reason. The offence is being called "he" instead of "she" or vice versa. If someone calls someone who's by all appearances a woman "he" they're doing it TO offend, not because they can't think of the right word.

carlmango11

To be honest I think having specific pronouns depending on gender seems a bit pointless and arbitrary and it would be useful to have a neutral one but this just stinks of SJW/feminism/safe space/trigger warning rubbish invented by people with too much time on their hands who take a hobby in being offended.

riffmongous

Love nor Money wrote: »

"They" works and always has.

The fact that "they" catches plurals doesn't stop it catching singular references. After all "you" has happily covered both since forever (unless the Don's are going to take on the Cork "ye" or worse the Cavan "youse" while they're at it).

The apparent offence caused to trans people is a nonsense reason. The offence is being called "he" instead of "she" or vice versa. If someone calls someone who's by all appearances a woman "he" they're doing it TO offend, not because they can't think of the right word.

Incorrect, the 'ye' you disparage is actually the old way of saying 'you' plural. you wasn't even used as the singular second person, which was thou

languagenerd

pickarooney wrote: »

'They' is just plain wrong though; it's a plural pronoun. It illustrates perfectly why a neutral singular one is needed.

It isn't though. Language evolves - if one person can use a word in a certain context and most/all other speakers of the language understand immediately what they mean, then essentially it's not wrong. "They" has been used as a singular pronoun on and off for centuries and I doubt you'd find many people who don't understand it in that context. "You" took on extra meanings when "Thou" and "Ye" fell out of use and it rarely causes problems. Why would there be any issues with "they" doing the same?

That said, I don't think "Ze" will catch on. It sounds too weird to Anglophone ears. Plus, transgender people are a very small minority and it's quite probable that some of them don't want to be called that either - and it doesn't really remove the potential for insults either. In fact, people could start using it inadvertently ONLY for someone whose gender isn't immediately obvious, which would be even worse.

RayCun

carlmango11 wrote: »

To be honest I think having specific pronouns depending on gender seems a bit pointless and arbitrary and it would be useful to have a neutral one but this just stinks of SJW/feminism/safe space/trigger warning rubbish invented by people with too much time on their hands who take a hobby in being offended.

good thing you are so completely imperturbable, you'd never get offended by random **** on the internet

Wildlife Actor

riffmongous wrote: »

Incorrect, the 'ye' you disparage is actually the old way of saying 'you' plural. you wasn't even used as the singular second person, which was thou

Oh sorry, let's go back 200 years and pretend nothing happened in the meantime so. I suppose I should have qualified my "always" in case someone thought I was taken to mean that the dinosaurs were going round saying "you".

Wildlife Actor

Don't mention they war in front of they Germans...

Zubeneschamali

ChikiChiki wrote: »

A well known Irish company has just put in a gender neutral toilet

We've had one of those in our house for years.

riffmongous

Love nor Money wrote: »

Oh sorry, let's go back 200 years and pretend nothing happened in the meantime so. I suppose I should have qualified my "always" in case someone thought I was taken to mean that the dinosaurs were going round saying "you".

It was the 'forever' actually, it was just so wrong it needed to be pointed out

darkpagandeath

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

We've had one of those in our house for years.

Same here, But love this kind of nonsense. give it a few weeks of beer sh*ts and they will be wanting segregated toilets again. I'm all for open single space changing rooms too.

Jimmy Garlic

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Same here, But love this kind of nonsense. give it a few weeks of beer sh*ts and they will be wanting segregated toilets again. I'm all for open single space changing rooms too.

Overflowing fanny pad bins, piss on toilet seats, queuing for cubicles, fellas waving their cocks around etc etc. There are plenty of reasons why there shouldn't be unisex toilets.. Can you imagine one in Houston Station for example? Carnage.

darkpagandeath

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Overflowing fanny pad bins, piss on toilet seats, queuing for cubicles, fellas waving their cocks around etc etc. There are plenty of reasons why there shouldn't be unisex toilets.. Can you imagine one in Houston Station for example? Carnage.

Jasus yeah .. Blasted with P*ss to another level.

conorhal

languagenerd wrote: »

It isn't though. Language evolves - if one person can use a word in a certain context and most/all other speakers of the language understand immediately what they mean, then essentially it's not wrong. "They" has been used as a singular pronoun on and off for centuries and I doubt you'd find many people who don't understand it in that context. "You" took on extra meanings when "Thou" and "Ye" fell out of use and it rarely causes problems. Why would there be any issues with "they" doing the same?

That said, I don't think "Ze" will catch on. It sounds too weird to Anglophone ears. Plus, transgender people are a very small minority and it's quite probable that some of them don't want to be called that either - and it doesn't really remove the potential for insults either. In fact, people could start using it inadvertently ONLY for someone whose gender isn't immediately obvious, which would be even worse.

Indeed, it's funny when people speak on this issue they tend to do so on 'behalf of the trans community', many of whom have different ideas on the subject, take trans youtuber Blair White for example and allow her to explain to the slow in the class that there are only two genders.

padd b1975

padd b1975 wrote: »

These fruits won't know what hit them when they eventually have to deal with the real world.

Your typical Oxford graduate never has to deal with the real world.

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your typical Oxford graduate never has to deal with the real world.

Not all in fairness. More and more are coming from state schools now a days.

Grayson

So this thread has officially turned into "the bully the transgender person and pretend we know more about being transgender than someone who actually is" thread.

I have no idea what it's like to be transgender. I have no idea what it's like to be anything other than a straight male. I however am not arrogant enough to start telling someone who is transgender that they are wrong, or in one case mentally ill (every single one of you that clicked like on that comment should be disgusted with yourselves).

There are millions of transgender people in the world. And sh1t like this is why they're still bullied and beaten and killed. And it's not even because of something they've done, it's because of who they are.

You find it uncomfortable? Imagine how they feel. You think the world is changing in a way you don't like? Imagine living in a world where it's ok to be harassed because of who you are because people don't like the idea of who you are.

I understand being confused with pronouns. I haven't got my head around it and I'm grateful that if they ever get into common parlance it will probably be long after I'm dead. But this thread has moved far beyond that with people posting **** like "there are only two genders, get over it". It responds me of people who think that being gay is a mental disorder.

I'm going to leave this thread now because the circle jerk of people congratulating each other on bullying a transgender person. It just sickening.

darkpagandeath

Grayson wrote: »

So this thread has officially turned into "the bully the transgender person and pretend we know more about being transgender than someone who actually is" thread.

I have no idea what it's like to be transgender. I have no idea what it's like to be anything other than a straight male. I however am not arrogant enough to start telling someone who is transgender that they are wrong, or in one case mentally ill (every single one of you that clicked like on that comment should be disgusted with yourselves).

There are millions of transgender people in the world. And sh1t like this is why they're still bullied and beaten and killed. And it's not even because of something they've done, it's because of who they are.

You find it uncomfortable? Imagine how they feel. You think the world is changing in a way you don't like? Imagine living in a world where it's ok to be harassed because of who you are because people don't like the idea of who you are.

I understand being confused with pronouns. I haven't got my head around it and I'm grateful that if they ever get into common parlance it will probably be long after I'm dead. But this thread has moved far beyond that with people posting **** like "there are only two genders, get over it". It responds me of people who think that being gay is a mental disorder.

I'm going to leave this thread now because the circle jerk of people congratulating each other on bullying a transgender person. It just sickening.

Does one start a conversation by asking what gender the person identifies as ? Would that not be bullying ? Would be like asking what Religion people are for no reason.

TheAnalyst_

AH revealing itself to be packed full of morons.

Jimmy Garlic

Grayson wrote: »

So this thread has officially turned into "the bully the transgender person and pretend we know more about being transgender than someone who actually is" thread.

Only in your own head. There are those who see anyone who doesn't have right-on opinions in regard to topics such as this as being ''bullies''. That is an underhand way to shut down debate.. ''Boo hoo hoo, you hurt my feelings, you're a bully blah blah.'' The world is not an echo chamber just for you and people who have the same opinions as you.

I understand being confused with pronouns. I haven't got my head around it and I'm grateful that if they ever get into common parlance it will probably be long after I'm dead. But this thread has moved far beyond that with people posting **** like "there are only two genders, get over it". It responds me of people who think that being gay is a mental disorder.

There are only two genders. Get over it.

I'm going to leave this thread now because the circle jerk of people congratulating each other on bullying a transgender person. It just sickening.

You need to toughen up a bit, seriously.

benjamin d

Grayson wrote: »

So this thread has officially turned into "the bully the transgender person and pretend we know more about being transgender than someone who actually is" thread.

Oh f**k right off and take your high horse with you.

Why does this even affect transgender people? Transgender = change gender. If a man becomes a woman surely 'she' is then the right pronoun, and vice versa?

A neutral pronoun realistically affects a statistically nonexistent amount of people. If 'they', a grammatically and 'politically' correct word isn't good enough for them even when people are trying their best to be understanding, then they can f**k right off too.

TheAnalyst_

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

There are only two genders. Get over it.

Only a woman can have sex with a man. It's natural.

TheAnalyst_

benjamin d wrote: »

Grayson wrote: »

So this thread has officially turned into "the bully the transgender person and pretend we know more about being transgender than someone who actually is" thread.

Oh f**k right off and take your high horse with you.

Why does this even affect transgender people? Transgender = change gender. If a man becomes a woman surely 'she' is then the right pronoun, and vice versa?

A neutral pronoun realistically affects a statistically nonexistent amount of people. If 'they', a grammatically and 'politically' correct word isn't good enough for them even when people are trying their best to be understanding, then they can f**k right off too.

You've never heard of intergender?

darkpagandeath

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Only a woman can have sex with a man. It's natural.

Is this the 1950s calling ?

benjamin d

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

You've never heard of intergender?

Read my post properly.

darkpagandeath

benjamin d wrote: »

Oh f**k right off and take your high horse with you.

Why does this even affect transgender people? Transgender = change gender. If a man becomes a woman surely 'she' is then the right pronoun, and vice versa?

A neutral pronoun realistically affects a statistically nonexistent amount of people. If 'they', a grammatically and 'politically' correct word isn't good enough for them even when people are trying their best to be understanding, then they can f**k right off too.

What happens when they go to a place with a language with Mescaline and feminine ?

TheAnalyst_

benjamin d wrote: »

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

You've never heard of intergender?

Read my post properly.

I did. You don't know what intergender is. You are ignorant.

benjamin d

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What happens when they go to a place with a language with Mescaline and feminine ?

Well that's a problem for that place.
Where we are, English has it covered.

darkpagandeath

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I did. You don't know what intergender is. You are ignorant.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

darkpagandeath

benjamin d wrote: »

Well that's a problem for that place.
Where we are, English has it covered.

Yes indeed we have male and female him and her. He and she take your pick.

benjamin d

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I did. You don't know what intergender is. You are ignorant.

You're not the brightest are you?

benjamin d

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes indeed we have male and female him and her. He and she take your pick.

They.

They is the word you're struggling to grasp here.

TheAnalyst_

You're the dinosaurs that we'll all judge sternly in 20 years time.

darkpagandeath

benjamin d wrote: »

They.

They is the word you're struggling to grasp here.

Yeah, Can't see that going down to well. Bit like saying "You" people.

darkpagandeath

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

You're the dinosaurs that we'll all judge sternly in 20 years time.

Stop judgeshaming us.

Jimmy Garlic

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

You're the dinosaurs that we'll all judge sternly in 20 years time.

No, we are the vast majority of people. The Orwellian nonsense being peddled by social engineers is being rejected by society. Change the language to suit a perpetually offended minority? Fuq right off.

benjamin d

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

You're the dinosaurs that we'll all judge sternly in 20 years time.

If you'd untwist your knickers for a moment you'd see I'm actually arguing FOR using a gender neutral word. But I'm saying there already is one so there's no need to go alienating and confusing a large group of people who don't understand what intersex is and won't appreciate being called names for not being au fait with the latest cause du jour of the whining intelligentsia.

GreenFolder2

How can you pronounce that though ?

It offends my ears and it's bit racist in the way it could be mistaken as someone mocking the German accent.

Try saying:

He said
She said
Ze said

I bet you will say ze shed.

So basically, it's a phonetic disaster.

JRant

Anyone who thinks this is just a student union acting silly beggars needs to take a long hard look at where this kind of thinking leaves us.

Look at the recent legislation in New York and Ontario to see where this lunacy goes. It's now illegal not to use these ridiculous pronouns. So not content with banning certain words it's now acceptable to force people to use certain phrases. This is a worrying development and needs to be prevented from occurring here.

Capt'n Midnight

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

This will annoy Ze Germans.

Don't mention the war Oxford

Sorry but I have to mention the war, because they started it. :mad:

The Oxford Union probably helped create the climate in which the war was more likely.


https://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/archives/education/churchill-era/exercises/appeasement/king-country-debate/

In 1933 the Oxford Union, the university undergraduate debating society, passed a famous motion that "This House would not in any circumstances fight for King and Country". It made headline news at the time: Churchill called the vote "abject, squalid, shameless" and "nauseating", and it is even said to have misled Hitler into thinking the British had lost the will to fight, so it is clearly important historical evidence,

wakka12

conorhal wrote: »

Indeed, it's funny when people speak on this issue they tend to do so on 'behalf of the trans community', many of whom have different ideas on the subject, take trans youtuber Blair White for example and allow her to explain to the slow in the class that there are only two genders.

Wow wouldnt have been able to tell she was a guy before at all. Looks and sounds so feminine , looks slightly like she had some plastic surgery done is all though

lawred2

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Between this and the pumpkin spice lattes thread the world is getting dafter by the day. A well known Irish company has just put in a gender neutral toilet in addition to the existing male and female toilets to facilitate at the demands of one of their staff members who is going through a sex change. I find that bonkers to be honest.

Your either male or female and that's the end of it. Fair enough if you want to change, just pick one ffs. This gender neutral, gender fluidity is such a load of modern PC guff and is driving people mad.

It's not driving me mad. I couldn't give a toss what people are at.

Junkyard Tom

wakka12 wrote: »

Wow wouldnt have been able to tell she was a guy before at all. Looks and sounds so feminine , looks slightly like she had some plastic surgery done is all though

Fancy her do ya?

darkpagandeath

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Fancy her do ya?

Why not ? She is a woman.

midnight city

There is a big issue about this in Canada at the min to. A university of Toronto professor is in the middle of a s**t storm for having the temerity to disagree with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiijS_9hPkM

Junkyard Tom

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why not ? She is a woman.

You're a woman. :mad:

wakka12

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why not ? She is a woman.

sure what else dya need to fancy someone

Junkyard Tom

I thought she said she was from Iran.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

I can't deal with zis crap.

darkpagandeath

wakka12 wrote: »

sure what else dya need to fancy someone

I don't tend to go for the opposite sex. Have dabbled though. Like boobs and Jina. If she was pre op that would prob be a game breaker for me. Depends though how far you get into a relationship. Not set in stone.