Are people who have affairs/cheat bad people?

Walter H Price

DrPhilG wrote: »

All of that stuff may excuse him for wanting out of the marriage, but it does not excuse him cheating. If his marriage was that bad, end it and THEN go sleep with whoever he wanted.

PS, no offence but I do have my doubts about the whole story. I'm a born again Christian, and although there are plenty of nutty variations about I've never yet heard anyone suggest that having sex with your husband/wife is sinful, regardless of the other half's lack of belief. And I do know plenty of mixed (i.e. one Christian, one not) couples.

to be honest had he ended the relationship he would have had to leave the family home , his kids who he was very close too and really did and does love , lose a good chunk of his salery etc. It was a much better option for him to just go along with the marraige charade and have the affair at the same time.

I don't know weather the no sex thing was as a result of becoming born again christian or weather that was just coincidental (as in both happened at the same time but not related) but story is 100% true , his mam definitely stopped drinking and socialising and became completely obsessed with sin after finding Jesus or whatever. In my book her finding God was more detrimental for there marriage then his affair to be honest she became a completely different person, didn't just ruin her marriage it ruined her relationship with there friends and her kids at this stage too.

I always had allot of respect for him hanging in there as long as he did about 6 years before he had and affair , if it was me i wouldn't have lasted 6 weeks listening to that sh!t. My folks used to be quite close friends with them as well when me and my mate were smaller but now they wouldn't see his ma at all still see his da and his now fiance regular enough though.

Potatoeman

Walter H Price wrote: »

+1 the onus is fully on the person in the relationship / marriage ... don't believe in any of the home wrecker crap.

Potential partners may look at it as sketchy. They won't call you names but will not consider you for a relationship. It shows a lack of empathy and raises the question 'what else would they do?'.

sbsquarepants

HellSquirrel wrote: »

While it is, there's something a bit..slimy about making a play for a married man or woman. Whether you want to admit it or not, you're knowingly helping to hurt someone badly, and that you're helping the one person they should be able to trust betray them is just... you're not the Saruman in the situation, but a bit Grima.

I'll have to admit my ignorance here and confess I don't know what the Saruman / Grima reference means (I'll look it up when I get a chance!)

I don't think it's slimy or sleazy to make a play for a married man or woman - provided they are interested. I actually think it's a bit degrading to look at any person as property of another, if that's not how they see themselves - ie that's his wife, or that's her husband - if they agree, then fine, but if they don't then that's your answer, they aren't.
It's sleazy to pester anybody, attached or not if they clearly aren't interested. There are laws against it in fact!

AnGaelach wrote: »

Because not only does cheating hurt the other person you've just cheated on, it also ruins whatever children are in that family. I'm not going to pretend like it's okay for someone to sleep around because "well dude it's their decision!".

I would have much preferred if my parents had divorced and found partners that way, instead of having my mother heartbroken.

If you don't like how I talk about cheating little scumbags, then don't do it or don't get caught. Until then I'll continue calling them out for the filth that they are.

I'll go easy because you're clearly hurting.
I don't know your personal circumstances - maybe your old man is a just a narcissistic asshole who just doesn't give a toss what trouble he causes others, maybe he's a decent man who loves his kids but no longer loves his wife -maybe that's his fault, maybe it's hers, maybe it's neither, maybe they just changed as people and grew apart - I don't know.
But no matter what way it happened, it's too simplistic to say "just don't do it, think of the kids". I very much doubt your father had an affair because his wife was a dream come true and he was just too damn happy and needed some shít to deal with. There are 2 sides to every story.

All sorts of things fúck kids up, including when families break up and also when they should break up but don't. In reality there are no perfect families and there are no amicable separations. Sometimes life just deals you shítty cards unfortunately.

sohsoh

Who are we to judge

Estrellita

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd say pretty much all of my male friends who are married or are in relationships have cheated,some do it wholesale.

No wonder it's not seen as a bad thing to do, it seems to be universally accepted as just one of those things now.

This whole 'good people sometimes do bad things' s.hit really grinds my gears. It's any excuse to cheat rather than to deal with issues at home. Whether that's to make or break, at least you are taking the other persons heart into consideration. It's bad enough when it's just a couple in a relationship, it's people who are married with children doing it that are the biggest cnuts going. Family destroyers with not a thought for anyone else, all for the sake of a silly little thrill. I don't give a s.hit if they claim it's a loveless or sexless marriage, gtfo of it.

I would go so far as saying that I would cut contact with someone I knew was cheating, it says an awful lot about their character.

HensVassal

AnGaelach wrote: »

Will ye ever stop with this appeal to nature shíte? You know ducks rape each other during mating season? Should I be justified in raping someone because ducks do it? No, you utter spastic. Christ alive, stop trying to justify things on the basis of "well it happens in nature:DD"

Why are you equating what ducks do with what humans do? What a stupid statement. Why don't you stick to the things that it is natural for human beings to do.

"Utter spastic" ??

Walter H Price

Potatoeman wrote: »

Potential partners may look at it as sketchy. They won't call you names but will not consider you for a relationship. It shows a lack of empathy and raises the question 'what else would they do?'.

I had an affair with a married woman when i was in college , nothing serious just casual sex as far as i was concerned, but everyone in the class new , i dated 3 or 4 other girls in the class after that ended, no bother, didn't seem to trouble any of them. I'm actually engaged to one of them now, 5 years later.

Somewhat unsurprisingly the girl i had the affairs withs marriage ended shortly after we finished college , she had other affairs with lectures and pleanty of random ONS etc.. after we ended our thing , think her hubby eventually got sick of it and left her and the kids. Either way i know shes back living with her folks.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

HensVassal

Shergar6 wrote: »

The main problem here is that you didn't dump her asap. It's really not her fault you cheated. And considering you twigged that your friend was wanting a one night stand before you even got into the car, you had plenty of time to walk away from it. It's not like it was a heat of the moment thing.

And as usual you demonstrate that nowadays people are so badly educated or so well conditioned that they can't tell the difference between an explanation and an excuse.

You want to scorn someone but when given an explanation that doen't sufficiently scorn them you heap vitriol on top.

HensVassal

MadDog76 wrote: »

Huh?

So two, STD-free, people in a relationship with no cheating can contract an STD ......... how the f*ck do you think that's possible!??!!

Uhm......you can contract an STD during one sexual encounter and then pass it on in another encounter. You don't have to fucking cheat to contract or pass on an STD. You could be single and shagged somebody and contracted chlamydia, totally unbeknownst to you. You could then start dating someone a week later and pass it on.

It's not rocket science.

HensVassal

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'll have to admit my ignorance here and confess I don't know what the Saruman / Grima reference means (I'll look it up when I get a chance!)

I don't think it's slimy or sleazy to make a play for a married man or woman - provided they are interested. I actually think it's a bit degrading to look at any person as property of another, if that's not how they see themselves - ie that's his wife, or that's her husband - if they agree, then fine, but if they don't then that's your answer, they aren't.
It's sleazy to pester anybody, attached or not if they clearly aren't interested. There are laws against it in fact!



I'll go easy because you're clearly hurting.
I don't know your personal circumstances - maybe your old man is a just a narcissistic asshole who just doesn't give a toss what trouble he causes others, maybe he's a decent man who loves his kids but no longer loves his wife -maybe that's his fault, maybe it's hers, maybe it's neither, maybe they just changed as people and grew apart - I don't know.
But no matter what way it happened, it's too simplistic to say "just don't do it, think of the kids". I very much doubt your father had an affair because his wife was a dream come true and he was just too damn happy and needed some shít to deal with. There are 2 sides to every story.

All sorts of things fúck kids up, including when families break up and also when they should break up but don't. In reality there are no perfect families and there are no amicable separations. Sometimes life just deals you shítty cards unfortunately.

Very true. There are many kids who loathe the father for cheating. There are also kids who scorn the mother for NOT cheating, i.e. for wasting her life in a loveless marriage when she had a chance at a bit of happiness only to grow old looking back on a lifetime of squandered opportunities.

HensVassal

sashafierce wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

These things happen. Relationships end in many ways. There are people out there who have been dumped and NEVER get over it. In fact many of them fare much worse than people who have been cheated on. The love business is a messy and complicated enterprise.

Estrellita

HensVassal wrote: »

There are also kids who scorn the mother for NOT cheating, i.e. for wasting her life in a loveless marriage when she had a chance at a bit of happiness only to grow old looking back on a lifetime of squandered opportunities.

I've heard it all now. Perhaps these kids might wish their mother ended the marriage to find someone who makes her happy. No kid wishes a parent would cheat. That's codswallop, and you know it.

Potatoeman

Walter H Price wrote: »

I had an affair with a married woman when i was in college , nothing serious just casual sex as far as i was concerned, but everyone in the class new , i dated 3 or 4 other girls in the class after that ended, no bother, didn't seem to trouble any of them. I'm actually engaged to one of them now, 5 years later.

Somewhat unsurprisingly the girl i had the affairs withs marriage ended shortly after we finished college , she had other affairs with lectures and pleanty of random ONS etc.. after we ended our thing , think her hubby eventually got sick of it and left her and the kids. Either way i know shes back living with her folks.

People have different standards. I know someone that went after a married guy, slept with him and tried to get him to leave his pregnant wife. The guy was more wrong for cheating but she was the single one and it seemed to close some options off for her.

professore

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Very little in life is ever black and white.

Some people just don't give a toss about others, we all know people (usually men it has to be said, but not exclusively) who will just fúck anyone that will have them and don't think twice about the consequences. Those people are generally assholes in every way, shape and form. I'm happy to judge these as simply bad people.

The women who do it (and there are as many) just have a collection of mental disorders / troubled upbringing etc excuses to "explain" their behaviour.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

But there is a also a large cohort of people who for one reason or another are unhappy and just trying to get by - it's far too simplistic to just say end it with your partner and start again, that's fine when you're twenty and living with your parents - things get much more complicated when there are kids and mortgages and so on. These people, I try not get too judgemental with. No one really knows what goes on behind closed doors and it could simply be some man or woman striving to stay sane in cold hard world.

Cheating is never the answer. If you are that "unhappy" then either leave, or talk to your spouse and try to work it out. If the person they are cheating with is so great, they will immediately drop their spouse and kids to be with them and live happily ever after LOL. You hear the whole "unhappy" thing but in many cases the spouse never says they are "unhappy", they just pretend everything is fine and then go off and cheat, and then claim they were "unhappy" for a long time. It's mostly complete BS. In fact the betrayed spouse is often miserable themselves trying to please the supposedly unhappy one and wondering what the hell is wrong with them.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

That being said - it just wouldn't be for me, the idea holds very little appeal for me whatsoever.

I have also noticed a tendency to blame the other man or woman. "That bitch broke up a happy family" kind of thing, which I find bizarre - if the family was all that happy, there wouldn't have been another man or woman would there!
It's a similar mindset to "she's off limits, she's married" - I don't get that one either - that means she's promised to stay away from other men, not that other men have swore to stay away from her. If you take a vow, the onus is on you to keep it, not the rest of the world!

100% agree there.

professore

Walter H Price wrote: »

I had an affair with a married woman when i was in college , nothing serious just casual sex as far as i was concerned, but everyone in the class new , i dated 3 or 4 other girls in the class after that ended, no bother, didn't seem to trouble any of them. I'm actually engaged to one of them now, 5 years later.

Somewhat unsurprisingly the girl i had the affairs withs marriage ended shortly after we finished college , she had other affairs with lectures and pleanty of random ONS etc.. after we ended our thing , think her hubby eventually got sick of it and left her and the kids. Either way i know shes back living with her folks.

Yeah I think it surprises a lot of guys who are raised that women are the "moral guardians" of society and men are amoral assholes, it certainly surprised me how many women have zero morals - often the same ones loudly criticising other women for the same actions - and I've been surprised in the opposite direction with men - some of them do have strong morals. I'd say it's about 50 / 50.

professore

Shergar6 wrote: »

Schwarzeneggar's term as Governor of California was coming to an end. Considering who was just elected president, do Americans actually care about their male presidents being the epitome of virtue?

Pure bull**** that Woods or Arnie suffered AT ALL. Woods is still as respected as ever and Arnie is a legend.

Meg's career crashed and burned and Stewart worked her ass off to get back on her feet and is still tagged with it in a lot of commentary online.


It's amazing that you could have the opposite viewpoint, it really is.

Tiger Woods lost tens of millions in sponsorship? When is the last time you saw him advertising ANYTHING?

professore

blue note wrote: »

I cheated while in a relationship of about 8 years. It was an awful relationship that I had fallen into - she was constantly sick for the 8 years which I used as an excuse to rationalise her treatment of me. She was completely demanding of me, would get angry and shout and threaten to hurt herself if I didn't do whatever she wanted. I lost contact with lots of my college friends in this time. If she came on a night out with me to meet them she'd put a dampener on the evening for everyone, or if she didn't come she'd be p1ssed off with me for leaving her. There were constant put downs in private and in front of my family and friends. The day my mother sat down with me when I was home for the weekend on my own and asked me if my girlfriend talked to me like that when we were on our own was one of the most upsetting moments in the whole relationship. I knew what she thought already and I knew that everyone else thought it too, but to actually hear it out loud from your mother was crushing.

Then one night, I was hammered drunk in a nightclub with a few friends including the girl I took to my debs 10 years earlier. I still remember my friend asking her if she wanted to share a taxi home - we were in Rathmines, I lived in Ranelagh, she lived in Drumcondra and he lived in Santry. She said it was handier to share with me (for people unfamiliar with Dublin - I was 10 minutes walk away and she was on the same road as the one to my friends house). So while it might be obvious to everyone else what was happening, I still wasn't exactly sure. It certainly sounded kind of like I had "pulled", but bear in mind that I had only ever done that one other time - about 9 years ago. I hadn't as much as kissed another girl since I was a teenager and in my entire time with that girlfriend I had never been in a situation that was in any way like this. At that stage the only "romantic" attention I was used (attention from someone who was supposed to love me) were put downs, moaning and being reminded of all that was wrong with me. And then suddenly someone was being really nice to me - paying me loads of compliments. I'm welling up here a little thinking of how nice that felt, but I'd basically been listening to the opposite for years. Even though I thought I knew it wasn't true, it had sunk in. And anyone that thinks that someone withholding sex is no excuse - try being in that situation for a few years. You try to initiate it and are shot down. You try to chat about it and she tells you how selfish you're being for bringing up something you know she's self conscious about. You try nice gestures, dates, doing all the housework, everything you've read that might work - and she's simply never going to initiate it regardless of what you do. So you're rationed to depressing sex once every month or two. And then suddenly one day, someone actually wants you and finds you attractive. In truth at that stage I was a shell of the man I was before I started going out with that girl. I sheepishly went through with it and kind of enjoyed it. I'd say it wasn't the most thrilling night for my debs date of 2003, but it was an important night for me.

I think I'd somehow have gotten myself together and gotten out of that relationship eventually, but that night was probably the start of it. It wasn't just that someone else might find me attractive, it was more that I was reminded of what it was to be treated nicely. I had gotten so used to a relationship being all about the other person I had given up fighting for things I wanted. So it still took me over a year to break up with my girlfriend, but I suppose it was a bit of a gradual process looking back. We had two conversations where I basically demanded that she treat me better - that we'd do the things I wanted to do sometimes, watch what I wanted to watch on TV sometimes and that she'd help with the housework and basically stop shouting at me all the time. Neither conversation changed anything, so I just started going off and doing what I wanted more and more and to hell with the consequences. Eventually, I packed up my stuff and sat her down to tell her we were finished. It was the strangest feeling in the world after - melancholy (and I still can't quite put my finger on what I was sad about), relief, curiosity about what was going to happen now and as tiring as it was I felt energised. Not as much pity for the hurt I'd inflicted on another person as I'd expected.

So that's my little story. Do I feel guilty about the cheating? Of course I do! God knows I wish I was stronger and I had broken up with her long before that. But I wasn't and while I still feel guilty I'm very accepting of what I did. And thankful I did it. Most of my life had been put on hold for the 9 years I was with that girl. I feel a bit like I'm playing catch-up in life now, but I think I will catch up. And as daunting as it is trying get to where others are in life who might have left college with me, I'm enjoying the process. And over two years later I still have the odd person tell me how great it is to have me back. And as awful a moment as it was when my mother sat me down the couple of years before, I kind of had the opposite moment a couple of months after. I was at my niece's Christening and she gave me a big hug and said I looked happier than I had in years. And I don't think I had seen my mum look as happy in years either. Of course she was at her first grandchild's christening, so I can't take all the credit!

So to go back to the original question; are cheaters bad people? Grow up, it's not that black and white! It's a whole ****ing rainbow, including the colours that you can't even see!

I understand what you are saying, and I can see how that happened, but if it were me, I would come home and tell her I cheated, and finish it with her. It would gnaw away at me.

Secondly, you or your "cheatee" weren't married with kids. That's a whole other level of cheating. Doesn't make it right, but on a cheating scale of 1-10, this was a 3 (would have been a 1 if you hadn't had sex, and had told your partner and broken up with her. )

The ironic thing is it is quite possible she was cheating on you all the time - she certainly was showing all the symptoms of it.

_Brian

I've read many posts here and I see so many people using bad partners or bad relationships as a means to excuse or justify cheating on their partner or having affairs.

But really should they not acknowledge their weakness and deception in not facing up to the reality of being in a bad relationship and end that before moving on with their life.

I'm no spring chicken but every single time I've seen people start having affairs and cheating it just compounds the problems and widens the circles of hurt. More innocent people get drawn in when the charade collapses and it always does.

Two wrongs don't make a right, if your in a bad relationship or with a horrible person then end that situation, face the reality in life and move on. Cheating is cheating, even if you cheat on a bad person - being a cheat isn't exactly making you a better person.

sbsquarepants

twill wrote: »

In the case of my father, yes, he is just a narcissistic individual who didn't give a damn about the trouble he caused and who used the second chance my mother gave him to go out and do exactly the same thing again. There weren't two sides to the story. He just did it because he wanted to.

I'm not sure if cheating is more prevalent today than formerly, but I would guess there are more people who think they can have everything they want without having to sacrifice any impulse or wish.

Narcissists are out there - and they will do whatever the hell suits them at the time. You are both better off without him to be honest. There just is no happy ever after with somebody like that.

professore wrote: »

Cheating is never the answer. If you are that "unhappy" then either leave, or talk to your spouse and try to work it out. If the person they are cheating with is so great, they will immediately drop their spouse and kids to be with them and live happily ever after LOL. You hear the whole "unhappy" thing but in many cases the spouse never says they are "unhappy", they just pretend everything is fine and then go off and cheat, and then claim they were "unhappy" for a long time. It's mostly complete BS. In fact the betrayed spouse is often miserable themselves trying to please the supposedly unhappy one and wondering what the hell is wrong with them.

A lot of people simply can't leave. For men in particular, you break up with the missus - she gets the house + the kids and you get to pay for both and see the kids on the weekend. If you are say 50 years old, what are you going to do? A bank wont give you a mortgage unless you earn a kings ransom, so you're options are basically stay put or go couch surfing.
It's not as simple as come clean and face the consequences - it's that simple when you're twenty and living at home, not when times against you and you've kids and a mortgage.

MeatTwoVeg

I always find Boards to be a hilariously moralistic place at times.
I generally put it down to the age profile or lack of life experience.
Away from the black and white world of internet discussion forums, real life is a lot more complicated and messy.
It's why I'd never presume to judge what goes on in other people's relationships. It's none of my business basically.

Potatoeman

professore wrote: »

Yeah I think it surprises a lot of guys who are raised that women are the "moral guardians" of society and men are amoral assholes, it certainly surprised me how many women have zero morals - often the same ones loudly criticising other women for the same actions - and I've been surprised in the opposite direction with men - some of them do have strong morals. I'd say it's about 50 / 50.

Any survey I've seen has it at with slightly more men cheating. Men also seem more likely to keep it quite if they were cheated on rather than tell everyone. They also seem to get caught for some very dumb mistakes.

professore

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Narcissists are out there - and they will do whatever the hell suits them at the time. You are both better off without him to be honest. There just is no happy ever after with somebody like that.



A lot of people simply can't leave. For men in particular, you break up with the missus - she gets the house + the kids and you get to pay for both and see the kids on the weekend. If you are say 50 years old, what are you going to do? A bank wont give you a mortgage unless you earn a kings ransom, so you're options are basically stay put or go couch surfing.
It's not as simple as come clean and face the consequences - it's that simple when you're twenty and living at home, not when times against you and you've kids and a mortgage.

I'm not far off that profile. I'd still leave, and build a life for myself.

professore

Potatoeman wrote: »

Any survey I've seen has it at with slightly more men cheating. Men also seem more likely to keep it quite if they were cheated on rather than tell everyone. They also seem to get caught for some very dumb mistakes.

You really believe "surveys" like that? Asking people who are doing something dishonest to be honest on a survey. Doesn't work.

Men keeping it quiet? You don't know what some women are like my friend - they are the masters of manipulation. You will learn when it's too late.

professore

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

I always find Boards to be a hilariously moralistic place at times.
I generally put it down to the age profile or lack of life experience.
Away from the black and white world of internet discussion forums, real life is a lot more complicated and messy.
It's why I'd never presume to judge what goes on in other people's relationships. It's none of my business basically.

Yeah I'm around a long time, mid 40s, and cheating is still black and white for me. If you see the utter destruction it causes, suicides, mental illness, and often children end up hating one of their parents, even if you leave morals out of it, it's one of the worst things someone can do, up there with domestic violence. But it's all a "bit of fun" and "finding yourself". FFS.

bucketybuck

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

It's why I'd never presume to judge what goes on in other people's relationships. It's none of my business basically.

In a relationship? Whats "in" a relationship about cheating? Surely its the definition of "outside" the relationship?

You try to make it sound as if cheating is just something some couples do, as if its a choice they make and so who are we to judge. But the fact is that when it happens it happens with one person in that relationship not knowing about it at all, its completely non-consensual for that one person. And like anything non-consensual that makes it a lowlife thing to do to somebody.

Walter H Price

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A lot of people simply can't leave. For men in particular, you break up with the missus - she gets the house + the kids and you get to pay for both and see the kids on the weekend. If you are say 50 years old, what are you going to do? A bank wont give you a mortgage unless you earn a kings ransom, so you're options are basically stay put or go couch surfing.
It's not as simple as come clean and face the consequences - it's that simple when you're twenty and living at home, not when times against you and you've kids and a mortgage.

Exactly i think allot of men can end up trapped in that rock and a hard place situation where the spark is gone or they've fallen out of love with their partner but breaking up would mean losing their entire lifestyle , their home , earnings , in some cases access to their kids ... Effectivly if you leave you are left homeless and broke so for many simply leaving is not the most obvious option. Sure its the more noble thing to do or whatever but , im sure by the time your in that position stuck in a failing marriage with the alternative being effectivly a 50% pay cut and homelessness im sure for many all notions of nobilty and morality fly out the window, and in all honesty gien the circumstances men find themselves in when a marriage breaks down its hard to blame them.

They say its easier to find a job when you have a job , maybe the same is true of relationships , I'm sure its infinitly easier to find a potential partner whil in a failing marriage but still with your own how and finances then it is living back with your parents with half your salery going to your ex.

sbsquarepants

professore wrote: »

I'm not far off that profile. I'd still leave, and build a life for myself.

Some people are stronger than others, have more options than others, or simply have more money than others. A lot of people just couldn't face into renting a room somewhere and living like a student possibly until they die!

The whole pretending to be someone you're not just doesn't appeal to me. If I was going to be staying in the house but sleeping with someone else, I'd tell my missus what I was up to - the only reason I'd be up to anything like that was because our relationship had turned to shít anyway, so fúck her!
I wouldn't be into an affair, all the pretend business trips or whatever - I just personally couldn't be arsed with all the acting, but I can definitely see why someone else might.

Potatoeman

professore wrote: »

You really believe "surveys" like that? Asking people who are doing something dishonest to be honest on a survey. Doesn't work.

Men keeping it quiet? You don't know what some women are like my friend - they are the masters of manipulation. You will learn when it's too late.

You would be surprised what people admit in surveys.
It was only slightly more men, not a huge difference. When I say men keep it quite I mean when cheated on. They don't usually broadcast it.

MeatTwoVeg

bucketybuck wrote: »

You try to make it sound as if cheating is just something some couples do, as if its a choice they make and so who are we to judge. But the fact is that when it happens it happens with one person in that relationship not knowing about it at all, its completely non-consensual for that one person. And like anything non-consensual that makes it a lowlife thing to do to somebody.

Stop foaming at the mouth in your rush to pass judgement.
It's none of your business.
None at all.

professore

Walter H Price wrote: »

Exactly i think allot of men can end up trapped in that rock and a hard place situation where the spark is gone or they've fallen out of love with their partner but breaking up would mean losing their entire lifestyle , their home , earnings , in some cases access to their kids ... Effectivly if you leave you are left homeless and broke so for many simply leaving is not the most obvious option. Sure its the more noble thing to do or whatever but , im sure by the time your in that position stuck in a failing marriage with the alternative being effectivly a 50% pay cut and homelessness im sure for many all notions of nobilty and morality fly out the window, and in all honesty gien the circumstances men find themselves in when a marriage breaks down its hard to blame them.

They say its easier to find a job when you have a job , maybe the same is true of relationships , I'm sure its infinitly easier to find a potential partner whil in a failing marriage but still with your own how and finances then it is living back with your parents with half your salery going to your ex.

Not half your salary in Ireland. Also, do you currently spend half your salary on yourself and maintaining you? I sure as hell don't. More like 5% of it if I'm lucky. I would end up with far more of my income if I divorced, granted, a lot of it would go on rent etc somewhere else, but my wife and kids would be a lot worse off financially in cashflow terms than I would be, even with me giving them child support and keeping the house.

sbsquarepants

Walter H Price wrote: »

Sure its the more noble thing to do or whatever but , im sure by the time your in that position stuck in a failing marriage with the alternative being effectivly a 50% pay cut and homelessness im sure for many all notions of nobilty and morality fly out the window, and in all honesty gien the circumstances men find themselves in when a marriage breaks down its hard to blame them.

As you get older and more cynical you realise that morals come with a price - sometimes they simply aren't affordable.
The moral high ground is populated largely by the naive, the immature and the liars.

Widdershins

Being in a bad relationship..or being bad at relationships. I suspect the latter is the case more often than people admit.

I wonder why some people never really work on a relationship and instead give up on it wit the excuse ''the spark is gone'' or similar tripe.

professore

Potatoeman wrote: »

You would be surprised what people admit in surveys.
It was only slightly more men, not a huge difference. When I say men keep it quite I mean when cheated on. They don't usually broadcast it.

Yep you are right there in the second sentence. The first sentence we have no way of knowing as there would have to be some objective way of measuring it, i.e. first put each woman alone in a room with Brad Pitt and each man with Jessica Alba, test them, and then give them the survey without telling them the Pitt / Alba thing was part of the experiment.

Even that would be a waste of time, as it would only catch the horny jump on any chance type of cheaters, not the ones that are unhappy over years and then cheat. Plus they might not fancy the person enough!

professore

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Stop foaming at the mouth in your rush to pass judgement.
It's none of your business.
None at all.

Yes it's none of my business either unless it's my wife or me - or possibly close family - but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. People judge other people all the time. It's what humans do.

professore

sbsquarepants wrote: »

As you get older and more cynical you realise that morals come with a price - sometimes they simply aren't affordable.
The moral high ground is populated largely by the naive, the immature and the liars.

That's true - but in this case the price of being moral is MUCH LESS in the medium to long term than the price of being immoral.

MeatTwoVeg

professore wrote: »

Yes it's none of my business either unless it's my wife or me - or possibly close family - but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. People judge other people all the time. It's what humans do.

It's what the judgemental, curtain-twitching humans do. Not the entire species.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

Estrellita

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Stop foaming at the mouth in your rush to pass judgement.
It's none of your business.
None at all.

Feeling judged? Professore gave an opinion on the matter. Accusing him of foaming at the mouth is a p.iss poor way of hiding the defensiveness in your posts.

Finding the cheaters here is like shooting fish in a barrel. There's always a reason why cheating is excusable, and anyone that thinks otherwise are judgemental, nosey, curtain twitchers.. ffs.

twill

Walter H Price wrote: »

Exactly i think allot of men can end up trapped in that rock and a hard place situation where the spark is gone or they've fallen out of love with their partner but breaking up would mean losing their entire lifestyle , their home , earnings , in some cases access to their kids ... Effectivly if you leave you are left homeless and broke so for many simply leaving is not the most obvious option.

This is true, and it goes to show how little people really think about what marriage entails and how hard it actually is. Never mind going into debt for a spectacle, focus on how you are going to deal with problems that come in the years afterwards.

Sure its the more noble thing to do or whatever but , im sure by the time your in that position stuck in a failing marriage with the alternative being effectivly a 50% pay cut and homelessness im sure for many all notions of nobilty and morality fly out the window, and in all honesty gien the circumstances men find themselves in when a marriage breaks down its hard to blame them.

From what I've read, it's actually a fallacy that most people cheat because of marriage problems, despite the excuses they give. In fact, a lot of the spouses who are betrayed in this manner report that it came out of the blue, and that they thought their marriage was sound. A lot of cheating happens because people just want what they want.

They say its easier to find a job when you have a job , maybe the same is true of relationships , I'm sure its infinitly easier to find a potential partner whil in a failing marriage but still with your own how and finances then it is living back with your parents with half your salery going to your ex.

The money isn't for the ex. It's to maintain the children. I have a lot of sympathy for men who are in this situation, which I know creates a lot of hardship, but the tone of resentment I often hear about the injustice of keeping the children fed is... interesting.

twill

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

It's what the judgemental, curtain-twitching humans do. Not the entire species.

Does anyone ever refrain from discussing the morality of theft, for example, because it would be "judgemental"? Moreover, marriage is a legal contract, and adultery is a basis for divorce in some countries, though not in Ireland.

professore

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

It's what the judgemental, curtain-twitching humans do. Not the entire species.

Wow. You don't judge. What about Josef Fritzl? You don't judge it to be something of a risk for allowing your daughter to have a sleepover at his house? No? Or someone who you have lent money to several times and they never pay it back? Do you lend to them again? Fair play to you. Any chance of a few quid for christmas?

HensVassal

Estrellita wrote: »

I've heard it all now. Perhaps these kids might wish their mother ended the marriage to find someone who makes her happy. No kid wishes a parent would cheat. That's codswallop, and you know it.

Well I know of more than one friend whose mother was completely underappreciated. The 2 sons didn't get along that well with the father who was always in his own little tv room, at work, or out elsewhere. No time for family. When the lads reached late teenage years and started going to college, the mother started "seeing" a "gentleman companion". The sons found out but kept it to themselves and essentially told her that she had their support if she wanted it. They were going to be moving out at some stage and if she wanted then to consider a separation then that was her prerogative.

"Codswallop"? "Heard it all now"?

Do you think you have a monopoly on the mechanics of human relationships?

Walter H Price

Lets be honest its not a black and white situation , some people who cheat are i'm sure bad people who take advantage of trusting partners etc , some a good people who get caught in difficult circumstances i.e for whatever reason they feel trapped in a bad relationship of some sort or another. Some never intended on cheating but maybe just by chance met someone else and fell in love , for some people its a little too much vino at the office Christmas do or on a night out , away for a stag weekend.

It happens often the person who did it regrets it it for whatever reason , i don't believe cheating necessarily makes someone an inherently bad person. i have cheated on ex's , it was sh!tty but i had my reasons at the time , i have had an affair and one night stands with girls i knew were married or in relationships i was single so didn't feel it was on me. I have mates who would never cheat and i know honestly never have and i have mates who cheat on their girlfriends every time were away for a weekend and there's a brothel , strip club or night club within there reach.

I'm happy in my current relationship have never cheated on my fiance since we got together and i couldn't imagine myself doing it. But things change people change and i would never judge someone off hand just because they cheated on a partner or spouse there are a 100 and 1 reasons why people do it

HensVassal

professore wrote: »

Yeah I'm around a long time, mid 40s, and cheating is still black and white for me. If you see the utter destruction it causes, suicides, mental illness, and often children end up hating one of their parents, even if you leave morals out of it, it's one of the worst things someone can do, up there with domestic violence. But it's all a "bit of fun" and "finding yourself". FFS.

You're equating infidelity with violence?

MeatTwoVeg

professore wrote: »

Wow. You don't judge. What about Josef Fritzl? You don't judge it to be something of a risk for allowing your daughter to have a sleepover at his house? No? Or someone who you have lent money to several times and they never pay it back? Do you lend to them again? Fair play to you. Any chance of a few quid for christmas?

Your ability to construct a meaningful analogy is severely lacking.

professore

HensVassal wrote: »

Well I know of more than one friend whose mother was completely underappreciated. The 2 sons didn't get along that well with the father who was always in his own little tv room, at work, or out elsewhere. No time for family. When the lads reached late teenage years and started going to college, the mother started "seeing" a "gentleman companion". The sons found out but kept it to themselves and essentially told her that she had their support if she wanted it. They were going to be moving out at some stage and if she wanted then to consider a separation then that was her prerogative.

"Codswallop"? "Heard it all now"?

Do you think you have a monopoly on the mechanics of human relationships?

Hmm. Did she tell the husband she felt unappreciated? That she was very unhappy with the situation and if he didn't cop on that she was going to find herself another man? If she did, then I would have no issue with it.

If she didn't, and assumed that he was deliberately withholding affection, or didn't give a sh1t about her, then she was wrong 100%. Some men are reared that way, just as some women are reared to keep a spotless house and looking like they stepped out of a fashion magazine is all that's needed to be a good wife, regardless of any affection being shown.

professore

HensVassal wrote: »

You're equating infidelity with violence?

Equating is saying two things are equal. I didn't say that. I said it is as serious as domestic violence, it's psychological violence. It's a power thing - it's saying that your own happiness is more important than your partner's misery. There have been many suicides over this, some known personally to me.

HensVassal

Widdershins wrote: »

Being in a bad relationship..or being bad at relationships. I suspect the latter is the case more often than people admit.

I wonder why some people never really work on a relationship and instead give up on it wit the excuse ''the spark is gone'' or similar tripe.

Why should you work on a relationship if the spark IS gone and you want nothing more to do with that person?

You trot out these cliches that you hear in movies or soap operas. Life is short. You want to waste more of your years flogging a dead horse.

I was in a relationship for 6 years. Things started to go bad within the first 6 months. She cheated but I forgave her. But then the arguments became very bitter and she had a sadistic streak in her. She broke things that she knew I was fond of just to see me upset. She tried to kill one of my tropical tree frogs, the list of nastiness goes on. When we were good together it was good but I wish I had left earlier than 6 years. Trying to work on that powderkeg of a relationship was a waste of my time.

professore

The thing I completely fail to understand is that cheaters feel the need to convince everyone that they have the moral high ground and what they are doing is justified.

I can see why someone might want to cheat, and have been tempted several times and had the opportunity - some of those times my marriage was in a really bad place - I had a lot of really good justifications lined up to do it. Thankfully I never crossed that line.

I see very well why and how someone would cheat. If I had done it, I would have known full well what I was doing was wrong, and would not be telling people not to judge me. They have every right to judge me if they want. I did a crappy selfish thing, and don't need people telling me "it isn't so bad" or whatever because it is! Anyway it's what I think of myself that's important, I don't give a F what other people think.

Maybe it's the society we live in, I don't know.