Are people who have affairs/cheat bad people?

HensVassal

professore wrote: »

Yes for sure. Didn't see the film, but I would guess the older man was probably like a daddy to her.

You're not wrong there. Great movie and very sad.

HensVassal

tomwaterford wrote: »

Yes....they do

IME.....women are every bit as likely to cheat as men

I've seen it dozens of times.....the only slight difference in being that a single woman would be slightly less likely to cheat with married man than vice versa.....

mainly due to them spotting a ring etc,even at that....most wans I know wouldnt bother them

And therein lies the rub. I mentioned nature and instincts earlier and some poster brought up ducks raping each other.
Some women, when ovulating, are irrationally blind with sexual fire.

Widdershins

HensVassal wrote: »

Did you ever see the movie Ryan's Daughter?

It was about a younger woman married to an older man but she fell for a British officer.
I know it's a movie but I can imagine the scenario would not be uncommon. Do you think she wanted to be in controi?

Were you not complaining about cliches from movies this evening?

Estrellita

HensVassal wrote: »

Seems your standards aren't very high when you blithely see the world in black and white.

In replacement of having an actual point to support your 'debate', I'm now getting nonsensical tripe. I'm wrapping this up, because it's tiresome to reply to you at this stage.

You carry on with your excuses if it helps you sleep at night.

sashafierce

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Widdershins

HensVassal wrote: »

I'm not saying cheating is ok. I wish people would try to expand their horizon beyond the binary
"Cheaters are all scumbags and anyone who thinks differently is also a scumbag. End of!"

I'll admit that being cheated on is an awful thing to experience and the majority of times the cheater is guilty of selfish, deceitful behaviour.

But there is room here to contemplate that the person who is unfaithful is not necessarily the lowlife that so many are insisting. And that after all was the original question.

If a woman, neglected for so long or taken for granted, briefly meets some Lothario on holiday who makes her feel young and beautiful again if just for a short while then I don't see how you could possibly condemn her as being a scumbag. If she returns then to her dullard of a husband who she loves and would never leave but smiles at her little dalliance then I could never look down my nose at her.

Likewise a man going through a midlife crisis yields to the temptation of the attention paid him by another woman. He knows he will never leave his wife, in fact he will never even engage in an affair but the tryst.....it may just have been a forbidden kiss but it awakens something in him and he appreciates his wife even more and his libido comes raging back because he knows he's still "got it".

Not all indiscretions are the kind of sleazy, spiteful, acts of vile emotional cowardice and betrayal that so many of the mob on here portray them to be.

If a person is married or partnered to someone they love but that person is incapacitated, bed-ridden, terminal. If they wanted to take care of their sick loved one until the end which could come at any time and the patient gave permission for the healthy partner to get back in the game? But what if the healthy spouse was happy to have some love and affection outside of his or her current predicament but never wanted to admit this to his or her sick spouse because even though he/she gave permission out of a sense of selfless sacrifice he/she would probably be saddened by it? So he/she plays a delicate game of engaging in a few morsels of tenderness with someone while all the time insisting to his/her ailing spouse that he/she would rather not.

Is that so dreadful?
Could you honestly call any of these people lowlifes? Scumbags?

To all the black and white brigade.....are you going to say the person in the latter scenario should just split up, shove the spouse in a hospice and go tramping around? No, of course you will stay "damn them! they should abstain, be true and pure!" and all that bollocks that I'm expecting you to spew.

I agree with this but for me personally the last thing I'd want to do is shag someone else if my oh was terminally ill. Having said that it's a known phenomenon that people sometimes become more lusty when there is something like that on the horizon, or in dangerous times or just very sad and difficult times. But I wouldn't feel like it. And I find the idea of lying about it to spare their feelings kind of depressing. I suspect they would instinctively know.

Also, it's not always the case that the cheater is no longer young and beautiful and having no sex because of unattractiveness in the other partner's eyes.

The One Doctor

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It very positive for genetic variety, particularly if either or both parties can get away without it being noticed by the other partners. Cheating is a successful evolutionary development, and perfectly natural for those who engage in it. They are not bad people, simply differently-loyal, and should not be condemned for that. Embrace the variety of humanity, and allow them be true to their nature without criticism.

Nah.

laserlad2010

So where do we go from here?

Accepted, cheating by and large is inexcusable, and the path is pretty clear for the cheated on...

And the cheater? Full 100% remorse, wish it never happened... what do they do?

They're a good friend/brother/sister, they do good things, how do we classify them?

MadDog76

HensVassal wrote: »

Uhm......you can contract an STD during one sexual encounter and then pass it on in another encounter. You don't have to fucking cheat to contract or pass on an STD. You could be single and shagged somebody and contracted chlamydia, totally unbeknownst to you. You could then start dating someone a week later and pass it on.

It's not rocket science.

Uhm ......... you have to cheat in order to contract an STD from outside of the relationship ......... you're now saying that one of the partners already has an STD when entering the relationship which is not at all what you earlier implied ......... thank God its not rocket science because, if it was, you'd fail miserably!

sashafierce

sashafierce wrote: »

All these story's much as they warm the heart and all that are the minority in the cheating world. Fabio on his big white stallion comes into your life and makes you feel alive again while your husband pays you no attention. A rare occurance no doubt.

Husband goes away with mates, gets pissed and cheats. Most likely scenario.

What would break my heart even more would be the idea of some woman knowing she has had my husband behind my back. Laughing at me and pitying me for being so foolish.

She might not have a clue the man she is with is married.

sashafierce

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professore

I've gone through a situation worse than many described here and didn't cheat. Maybe I should have, as I'm some sort of idiot for not cheating, if I'm to believe some posters on here.

XsApollo

professore wrote: »

I've gone through a situation worse than many described here and didn't cheat. Maybe I should have, as I'm some sort of idiot for not cheating, if I'm to believe some posters on here.

Depending on what situation you were in
If the respect you showed was returned then all good.
If the person you showed that respect to didn't return, well then that's your choice.

I'm of the opinion respect is earned and treat others how they treat you.

So in essence every bodies situation is different and cheating or an affair isn't as simple as you should never cheat on your partner.
The key word being partner, works both ways.

Potatoeman

sbsquarepants wrote: »

They certainly do. In my early chasing days I always made a beeline for any foreign hen do's in town - it was like shooting fish in a barrel! I couldn't tell you what their relationship status was for sure, but they couldn't have all been single.

In fact now that I think it of it, one of them was actually the bride to be!

I know someone that used to do the same thing. He eventually started asking the brides and the response was that it was one last fling and what their husband to be didn't know wouldn't hurt him. It kind of messed with his head and he had trust issues after it. To me it just seemed like a terrible start to a marriage.

I'm surprised by how common the 'what they don't know won't hurt them' is. I think the not telling their partner allows them to justify it to themselves. That the person cheating hopes their partner isn't doing it but it's fine for them as long as they don't find out. So they get the best of both worlds if it works out.

HensVassal

professore wrote: »

Yes for sure. Didn't see the film, but I would guess the older man was probably like a daddy to her.

But she didn't want to be where she was....and paid for it.

DrPhilG

Walter H Price wrote: »

why would i be outraged that she got drunk and shifted someone at an office party its hardly the end of the world

I cannot fathom how anyone could do that to their partner/wife/husband. And I cannot fathom how someone could be so disinterested in it if their partner did it to them.

Walter H Price wrote: »

does oral sex really count as cheating ?

Holy crap, I'm not even sure if you're serious anymore. If you are, then my original point about the ever decreasing standard of morality stands.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

I cannot fathom how anyone could do that to their partner/wife/husband. And I cannot fathom how someone could be so disinterested in it if their partner did it to them.



Holy crap, I'm not even sure if you're serious anymore. If you are, then my original point about the ever decreasing standard of morality stands.

I can understand Walter's position. It might have something to do with values. For many sex can be just a physical act of pleasure when there are no feelings involved. If that's how you view it and your partner has a one night stand then it's going to be far easier to accept than say the intimacy of sharing your problems on a regular basis with a close work colleague of the opposite sex, or having a particular view you find abhorrent.

Again it comes back to grey areas and how what's ok for one person may not be ok for another.

HensVassal

Widdershins wrote: »

Were you not complaining about cliches from movies this evening?

I wasn't complaining about anything. I did bring up slogans and cliches.

That I alluded to a film....can you tell me what your point is.

Is there one?

HensVassal

Widdershins wrote: »

I agree with this but for me personally the last thing I'd want to do is shag someone else if my oh was terminally ill. Having said that it's a known phenomenon that people sometimes become more lusty when there is something like that on the horizon, or in dangerous times or just very sad and difficult times. But I wouldn't feel like it. And I find the idea of lying about it to spare their feelings kind of depressing. I suspect they would instinctively know.

Also, it's not always the case that the cheater is no longer young and beautiful and having no sex because of unattractiveness in the other partner's eyes.

You make valid points, but the thing is....well this discussion has degenerated into a schism between the dogmatic who never even contemplated the original question but rather exploded with venom and fury at the thought of someone seeking intimacy beyond the confines of their circumstances and those of us who think that it might not be the vile crime 101 times out of 100.

screamer

Bad? Perhaps not but morally bankrupt untrustworthy sneaky selfish a**holes they are. I always think if that is how they treat their nearest and dearest then I'd want nothing to do with them.

HensVassal

Widdershins wrote: »

I agree with this but for me personally the last thing I'd want to do is shag someone else if my oh was terminally ill. Having said that it's a known phenomenon that people sometimes become more lusty when there is something like that on the horizon, or in dangerous times or just very sad and difficult times. But I wouldn't feel like it. And I find the idea of lying about it to spare their feelings kind of depressing. I suspect they would instinctively know.

Also, it's not always the case that the cheater is no longer young and beautiful and having no sex because of unattractiveness in the other partner's eyes.

But everything you said was just about you.

zcorpian88

I haven't read all 15 pages of the thread so far,

But I do want to stay on the infidelity topic.
What would anyone say of a male person, in a dedicated relationship of two and a half years and he sexually assaulted a female friend in a bar (a hefty arse slap she got) while his girlfriend was in the same bar but out of sight, like gone to the bathroom for example.

I know an instance of this, and it involves three people I know, and this person wasn't confronted and never came clean about what he did. I think it displays doubt of how committed he is to his relationship. It's been bugging me because I set this guy up with her, and she is a lovely girl and if she found out, I think I know her well enough to know she would go bezerk.

With all this talk in the media about misogyny and objectification of women, most people would lean towards a yes? The victim of this told me weeks ago, I'm the last person she should have told because I'm now questioning his loyalty, and I'll be the one picking up the pieces because she is a good female friend of mine, if she finds this out or if he does something that tops it.

Is that person a bad person?

tomwaterford

zcorpian88 wrote: »

I haven't read all 15 pages of the thread so far,

But I do want to stay on the infidelity topic.
What would anyone say of a male person, in a dedicated relationship of two and a half years and he sexually assaulted a female friend in a bar (a hefty arse slap she got) while his girlfriend was in the same bar but out of sight, like gone to the bathroom for example.

I know an instance of this, and it involves three people I know, and this person wasn't confronted and never came clean about what he did. I think it displays doubt of how committed he is to his relationship. It's been bugging me because I set this guy up with her, and she is a lovely girl and if she found out, I think I know her well enough to know she would go bezerk.

With all this talk in the media about misogyny and objectification of women, most people would lean towards a yes? The victim of this told me weeks ago, I'm the last person she should have told because I'm not questioning his loyalty, and I'll be the one picking up the pieces because she is a good female friend of mine, if she finds this out or if he does something that tops it.

Is that person a bad person?

That's someone who had no interest in cheating....only looking for attention

What would have happened if your wan was kicking off and his lack came back???


Noone anywhere that drunk has that much lack of foresight/common sense

sashafierce

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up for anything

posturingpat wrote: »

Yes.
If you're not going to stay faithful get out of the relationship. Simple as that.

You can't categorise as in: Affairs = bad people. Fidelity = good people.

Circumstances matter a lot. People generally try and do the best that they can and because they're fallible then their best may not be everybody's best.

Autonomous Cowherd

sashafierce wrote: »

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Yeah, while i am persuaded generally about the issue not being black and white etc etc and can accept for some honesty is not possible, and their humanity needs love and comfort etc etc...there is something in what you say here about others 'boring' you. I wonder if it has something to do with 'bonding', and i wonder if some couples do it and others don't. While i can aesthetically appreciate attractive men and really enjoy many guy's humanity and feel great abiding affection for some close male friends, the thought of swapping saliva with someone other than my bonded lover kind of grosses me out...hahha, Jesus is that weird or something.

Oodoov

It's pretty much rampant as far as i can see in my work place anyway. Xmas party last year was an eye opener, loving wives eh i think not folks.

The flying mouse

Is having a mistress the same as cheating ? As in usually the mistress is (not always) a kept woman, I remember Charlie haughey & terry Keane .

Also what about men who by there own religion or customs can have more than one wife ?

IMO its not always the black or white in why people have affairs & there can be countless reasons as mentioned here earlier in why folks might & why they can't just leave.

Having said that it's heartbreaking to find out your partner or Spouse has been having sex with someone else without your knowledge.

sashafierce

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Walter H Price

DrPhilG wrote: »

I cannot fathom how anyone could do that to their partner/wife/husband. And I cannot fathom how someone could be so disinterested in it if their partner did it to them.



Holy crap, I'm not even sure if you're serious anymore. If you are, then my original point about the ever decreasing standard of morality stands.

Like i said its not that i wouldn't be annoyed with her but , i'm going to be honest i wouldn't be broken hearted or hurt or whatever , that she shifted someone on a night out , a bit p!ssed off but that's about it, now if it happened a few times it would become an issue. Its hardly the biggest deal in the world , its not life changing , its just a shift , and if it was meaningless to her why would i get hung up on it ?

The second point was part of my point that this is not black and white its a grey scale and completely subjective , i know lads in relationships who's OH's have serious issues with them watching porn , or count going to a strip club as cheating , one poster here said he's cool with a look don't touch policy, personally i'd probably agree with him , but at the other end of the scale i know a girl who genuinely asked that question above after one of the lads broke up with her after she gave some random guy head on a night out , as mentioned in my previous post one of the lads gets off with escorts every time were away his OH doesn't give a sh!t because her view is it doesn't count if he's paying for it ,its a running joke in our group. You simply cant just say all people who cheat are bad people when cheating itself is a massive subjective grey area.

It's not that i'd be disinterested i just don't view a meaningless shift as the absolute worse thing on partner in a relationship can do to the other. i have an aunt i don't speak too and haven't for years but she left her husband and kids here one who had thyroid cancer at the time to move to the middle east for a new job ( she wasn't out of work and there wasn't a huge pay rise ) she didn't cheat but for me that's a million times worse than a shift or even a meaningless screw , no idea idea why my uncle didn't divorce her on the spot. Again as i said in my first post my best mates parents split up about 10 years after his Ma found Jesus , abandoned there whole lifestyle and said she was done with sex again id of left at that point , that's far harder to move past then a drunken shift in my book.

Your right about moral standards dropping but as far as i'm concerned happy days on that front i don't know may people who want to go backwards towards repressed Catholic Ireland.

Widdershins

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

Yeah, while i am persuaded generally about the issue not being black and white etc etc and can accept for some honesty is not possible, and their humanity needs love and comfort etc etc...there is something in what you say here about others 'boring' you. I wonder if it has something to do with 'bonding', and i wonder if some couples do it and others don't. While i can aesthetically appreciate attractive men and really enjoy many guy's humanity and feel great abiding affection for some close male friends, the thought of swapping saliva with someone other than my bonded lover kind of grosses me out...hahha, Jesus is that weird or something.

Me too.

I love my partner and I don't even 'see' other men in a sexual or romantic way.

Logically I could say ''why go out for a burger when you have a steak at home'' but it's been like this since the second I met him. Nobody else really exists in the same way he does, for me.

sbsquarepants

sashafierce wrote: »

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This is the thing that gets me too. I'm in my job heading for 20 years now - a few years back there was a woman here, no looker by anyones standards, by jaysus she was rough, but a whole load of the old timers had been with her over the years. She was perpetually single in fairness, they were mostly married. Every Christmas do and so on they'd all rock up with their wives and she'd sit down and have a yap and a laugh with them all - all the normal carry on that goes on at an office party - everybody in the place, bar the wives knew the score, this went on for at least a decade!
I'm not the most sympathetic of people so it didn't keep me awake at nights or anything, I generally try to keep my nose out of peoples business, but I did always think it was a really shítty position for anyone to put their wife in.

Widdershins

HensVassal wrote: »

I wasn't complaining about anything. I did bring up slogans and cliches.

That I alluded to a film....can you tell me what your point is.

Is there one?

My point was just that in your example, the woman fell in love with someone while tied to someone she didn't love..that can of course happen but my more idealised idea of a relationship that the two inhabitants work on continuously and keep going forever, is no less possible, but you compared ito something from a movie.

sashafierce

sashafierce wrote: »

But if you love your partner you wouldn't be interested in kissing someone at a Christmas party or having a one night stand.

I adore my other half and the thoughts of cheating on him makes me sick. Even a naked Hugh Jackman wouldn't interest me beyond the "oooh a naked Hugh Jackman, how nice" thought. If I'm out and another man shows me attention it bores me. I generally find other men gross me out because they're not my other half.

That's your belief. You can't claim to know what another's experience is. Love? It means different things to different people. I can't imagine cheating on the man I love but that's me.

Widdershins

Office parties sound like depressing occasions that bring out the worst in people.

Walter H Price

Widdershins wrote: »

Office parties sound like depressing occasions that bring out the worst in people.

i think we can all agree on that hahahahahaha

sbsquarepants

Widdershins wrote: »

Office parties sound like depressing occasions that bring out the worst in people.

You stick a big group of people in an enclosed space and feed them drink for hours on end- someone's always guaranteed to make a show of themselves!:D
Especially when you have pent up feelings that are kept in check when sober during the working week . You hate Paddy from HR but ,my god Gill from accounts ass is a thing of rare and exquisite beauty - throw in ten vodka and red bulls and shít can get awkward fast!

Widdershins

Widdershins wrote: »

Office parties sound like depressing occasions that bring out the worst in people.

Ah come on.

Widdershins

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on.

What? I've never been to one.

Widdershins

Widdershins wrote: »

What? I've never been to one.

Neither have I

sashafierce

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The way I see it is that people will do all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. Christmas parties are an opportunity for a bit of madness to appear and steam to be released. You get to see your colleague in a different light and this can be useful in building a stronger connection. They are no longer just a position in the company but a living breathing human who you suddenly might find yourself attracted to.

It's possible to maintain two positions, love for your partner and sexual attraction for someone entirely different.

sbsquarepants

sashafierce wrote: »

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I wish I had skipped mine - must have took me 3 full days to recover. I'm too old for that shít now and try as I might, I just can't seem to get a grip on that moderation thing that seems to be all the rage these days:mad:

Goya

Oodoov wrote: »

It's pretty much rampant as far as i can see in my work place anyway. Xmas party last year was an eye opener, loving wives eh i think not folks.

Was it only women whom you noticed being unfaithful?

A vocal minority here seem keen to frame certain behaviours that either sex are capable of, as exclusive to women - or worse if by women.

sashafierce

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Oodoov

Flimpson wrote: »

Was it only women whom you noticed being unfaithful?

A vocal minority here seem keen to frame certain behaviours that either sex are capable of, as exclusive to women - or worse if by women.

No. Married men and married women. It's not a woman or man thing it's a human thing. Men seem to cheat more of that i've no doubt but anyone roaming around thinking married women don't are living in la la land. I didnt bother with the work xmas party this year but unfortunately had a stag event i couldnt avoid in Kilkenny in October and it's open season down there. They don't even bother removing the wedding bands it seems :pac:

Like i said i went to last years Xmas party didnt bother this year and it has happening i don't think these people where disappearing up to the hotel rooms to watch some TV tbh.

MeatTwoVeg

sashafierce wrote: »

I've been to many xmas parties and never seen any of this cheating carry on...

Mostly because it's an urban legend propagated by internet fanticists.

Goya

I don't think anyone here thinks women are far less capable of being unfaithful than men.

Potatoeman wrote: »

I know someone that used to do the same thing. He eventually started asking the brides and the response was that it was one last fling and what their husband to be didn't know wouldn't hurt him. It kind of messed with his head and he had trust issues after it.

He was the one bedding married women - therefore enabling their infidelity - yet their infidelity messed with his head and he had trust issues? Awesome!

sbsquarepants

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Mostly because it's an urban legend propagated by internet fanticists.

Infidelity? Or just workplace infidelity?

Either way, you're mistaken!

sashafierce

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