Bausch + Lomb Strike

Johnboy1951

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Who are the fools now :rolleyes:

Was there a resolution?

mooseknunkle

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Was there a resolution?

Yes

Wanderer78

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Yes

assume the deal was accepted?

mooseknunkle

Wanderer78 wrote: »

assume the deal was accepted?

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/93462-workers-at-bausch-and-lomb-have-voted-to-accept-a-new-pay-deal.html

Wanderer78

mooseknunkle wrote: »

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/93462-workers-at-bausch-and-lomb-have-voted-to-accept-a-new-pay-deal.html

fantastic stuff, fair play to them. very risky move but it paid off.

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fantastic stuff, fair play to them. very risky move but it paid off.

In the short run yes but damage to reputation, damage to investment attractiveness,damage to industrial relations in workplace itself and it became even more attractive to close up the place and move to other countrys..

Cabaal

Max Powers wrote: »

In the short run yes but damage to reputation, damage to investment attractiveness,damage to industrial relations in workplace itself and it became even more attractive to close up the place and move to other countrys..

I'd agree,
they won the battle, but they won't win the long term war on this one.
Easy for the company to up sticks and leave if they see the staff as more trouble then they are worth

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote:

In the short run yes but damage to reputation, damage to investment attractiveness,damage to industrial relations in workplace itself and it became even more attractive to close up the place and move to other countrys..

Cabaal wrote:

I'd agree, they won the battle, but they won't win the long term war on this one. Easy for the company to up sticks and leave if they see the staff as more trouble then they are worth

Not at all folks, you'll find most workers for large corporations are actually getting screwed in more ways than one. Most of these companies are making serious profits on the backs of all hard working people in their organisations. A lot of these profits are accumulating in bank accounts around the world, some in off shore tax havens. These monies have effectively become immobile, and immobile money is bad for society as a whole. We 're getting to the point that there is now possible trillions in this immobile state. We have to figure out ways of mobilizing this money for the greater good.

Companies such as these leave for a multitude of reasons, labour costs is one but things such as tax etc do have a significant role in this decision. Our economic systems are now so complex, we have effectively created a race to the bottom in regards labour costs, is this what we want, is this truly healthy for our societies?

I use to work for a large corporation, all I witnessed was obscene profiteering, ill treatment of all workers at all levels, very questionable ethnical behaviour at all levels and very questionable behaviour regarding important issues including environmental damage.

In the almost 40 years of existence of the company I was employed in, it has never turned a profit! Who's fooling who?

I wish the workers and indeed all workers of all businesses the very best of luck, they deserve it. We truly need to figure out how to create businesses that spread wealth more equally, it's best for society as a whole

mooseknunkle

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd agree,
they won the battle, but they won't win the long term war on this one.
Easy for the company to up sticks and leave if they see the staff as more trouble then they are worth

Whats the long term war?

If it was that easy to up sticks and leave as you say then they would have done it during all of this.

You like most of the other people on here have no clue what you're talking about,the first three posts on here the workers were called turkeys and fools,fair play to them for going through with it and getting a better deal.

Poor Uncle Tom

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Not at all folks, you'll find most workers for large corporations are actually getting screwed in more ways than one. Most of these companies are making serious profits on the backs of all hard working people in their organisations.

The workers in the factory mentioned in the thread title are actually some of the best paid in the city, this is widely known.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

A lot of these profits are accumulating in bank accounts around the world, some in off shore tax havens. These monies have effectively become immobile, and immobile money is bad for society as a whole. We 're getting to the point that there is now possible trillions in this immobile state. We have to figure out ways of mobilizing this money for the greater good.

Ambiguous nonsense, and of no relevance here.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Companies such as these leave for a multitude of reasons, labour costs is one but things such as tax etc do have a significant role in this decision. Our economic systems are now so complex, we have effectively created a race to the bottom in regards labour costs, is this what we want, is this truly healthy for our societies?

I disagree, there is no evidence that labour rates are dropping.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I use to work for a large corporation, all I witnessed was obscene profiteering, ill treatment of all workers at all levels, very questionable ethnical behaviour at all levels and very questionable behaviour regarding important issues including environmental damage.

In the almost 40 years of existence of the company I was employed in, it has never turned a profit! Who's fooling who?

A company in existence for 40 years without ever turning a profit? To keep operating for 40 years they would have had to balance the books at least.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I wish the workers and indeed all workers of all businesses the very best of luck, they deserve it. We truly need to figure out how to create businesses that spread wealth more equally, it's best for society as a whole

The people who actually take the risks in setting up the businesses deserve any profits they make from their efforts.

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Whats the long term war?

If it was that easy to up sticks and leave as you say then they would have done it during all of this.

From the perspective of an outsider, I feel the company gave in very easily here. I feel it is a case of watch this space very closely.

mooseknunkle wrote: »

You like most of the other people on here have no clue what you're talking about,

Attack the post, not the poster.

Wanderer78

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

The workers in the factory mentioned in the thread title are actually some of the best paid in the city, this is widely known.

completely agree and best of luck to them.

Ambiguous nonsense, and of no relevance here.

not at all, tons of well respected people including world renowned economists writing about this stuff now, some have being doing so for decades. one of the best resources for such info:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/

I disagree, there is no evidence that labour rates are dropping.

again tons of people have been writing about this and for a long time, probably find some writings on naked capitalism. its generally believed average industrial wages are stagnating since the great push of globalization particularly over the last couple of decades. noam chomsky has been writing about this for a long time now and id have to agree with him.

A company in existence for 40 years without ever turning a profit? To keep operating for 40 years they would have had to balance the books at least.

if a company can operate for 40 years without making a profit, something is clearly wrong. if any of us set up a business and did not make a profit within the first couple of years, it is very likely that business would fail. just as american economist michael hudson explains very well how the fire sectors are parasitic to our societies and economies, i believe these large corporations are behaving in a similar manner. oh im sure the books are well balanced!

The people who actually take the risks in setting up the businesses deserve any profits they make from their efforts.

again, you will find many people writing about this, many corporations are slowly financialising their operations, effectively they are turning into banks. according to michael hudson, both ge and gm were heavily involved in financialisation at the height of the most recent boom. it is known that financialisation creates far fewer jobs, even cause a reduction in jobs of certain sectors, and jobs of lesser pay than the likes of manufacturing jobs etc. you will find these organisations and even wealthy individuals invest their money in whats called, 'money making money schemes', this creates what some call, 'unearned income'. these activities are generally believed to not truly help the real world economy, and in fact can do great damage to it. michael hudson is the man for more info on this, he would also explain it far better than i could.

.....

Johnboy1951

if a company can operate for 40 years without making a profit, something is clearly wrong

Perhaps that should have read

'without showing a profit'

It is not difficult to move elsewhere, what would be profits if retained, thus showing no profit locally.

I think they call it 'tax management' these days.

mooseknunkle

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

From the perspective of an outsider, I feel the company gave in very easily here. I feel it is a case of watch this space very closely.



Attack the post, not the poster.

Watch what space closely?,like i already said you have no clue what you're talking about either and thats not "attacking someone" :rolleyes:

PropJoe10

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd agree,
they won the battle, but they won't win the long term war on this one.
Easy for the company to up sticks and leave if they see the staff as more trouble then they are worth

You can be sure that Trump will be offering companies like B&L tax breaks to move the jobs back to the US. As you said, I cant see them winning the war on this in the long term.

Wanderer78

PropJoe10 wrote:

You can be sure that Trump will be offering companies like B&L tax breaks to move the jobs back to the US. As you said, I cant see them winning the war on this in the long term.

I actually don't think it'll be that simple to move these jobs back to America but he'll probably try alright, brexit is another fly in the ointment. I'm particularly liking David McWilliams approach to dealing with the looming corporate tax issues

mooseknunkle

PropJoe10 wrote: »

You can be sure that Trump will be offering companies like B&L tax breaks to move the jobs back to the US. As you said, I cant see them winning the war on this in the long term.

They're a Canadian company.

vixdname

From the very outset of this dispute it was very obvious that good old Waterford begrudgery and jealousy was very much alive and well.

The old undertone of ' Who de f**k do dey tink dey are ?' type attitude permeated the airwaves also with the help of that local waterford radio station that sounds so amateurish it's embarrassing at times but also a radio station that funnily enough prides itself on being a station that 'looks after their own boy' and is a station for the 'local people'.

The completely biased coverage of the dispute on this radio station and in particular the DEISEAM programme and the way the presenters done their best to demonise all workers in that plant was disgusting.
It'd have nothing to do with future sponsorship from local factories at all would it ?

This station gave airtime to the local begrudgers to spew out their jealous nonsense with some of them claiming they would be delighted to get the wages and conditions the workers in that plant got but whom apparently either never bothered applying for a job in their themselves eventhough there's been a huge recruitment drive in the plant in recent years or were too stupid to pass the entrance test requirements and simply hated to see others better themselves, but hey, isn't that a very Irish trait.

A man once said to me that if a Cork man and a Waterford man set up shops next to each other in Waterford city the Waterford man's shop would be closed in 12 months while the Cork man's shop flourished and this is to this very day so true.

Waterford people in general hate to see locals better themselves and will either do their best to undermine those that are bettering themselves or simply ridicule then as if they were stepping above their station if they looked for something more.

It's these same people that, while doing the above, will not have the brains or balls to stand up for themselves and look for more and will go through life being envious of those that do.

There was one poor soul that was given airtime who whinged that the average worker in the plant earned 40k per year, the jealousy they spewed out while divulging this information across the airwaves was palpable.

I'd like this poor soul to now know that because the workers stood up for themselves the average workers he spoke about will now, once the increases take full affect , be earning 43,800 per year, isn't that great ? Along with extra days off, an improved sick pay scheme, better conditions for new starters and 500 euro sweetener in January to spend in the sales !
I'd say this makes the begrudgers sick, I hope it does.

I for one will do my best to not spend locally anymore as when we needed a bit of local support all we got was demonisation and jealousy spewed in our direction.

Now I'm off to think about what car I may buy in the new year or what sunshine holiday I may book in January whilst the begrudgers walk around with their hands in their pockets wondering where it all went wrong.

debok

vixdname wrote: »

From the very outset of this dispute it was very obvious that good old Waterford begrudgery and jealousy was very much alive and well.

The old undertone of ' Who de f**k do dey tink dey are ?' type attitude permeated the airwaves also with the help of that local waterford radio station that sounds so amateurish it's embarrassing at times but also a radio station that funnily enough prides itself on being a station that 'looks after their own boy' and is a station for the 'local people'.

The completely biased coverage of the dispute on this radio station and in particular the DEISEAM programme and the way the presenters done their best to demonise all workers in that plant was disgusting.
It'd have nothing to do with future sponsorship from local factories at all would it ?

This station gave airtime to the local begrudgers to spew out their jealous nonsense with some of them claiming they would be delighted to get the wages and conditions the workers in that plant got but whom apparently either never bothered applying for a job in their themselves eventhough there's been a huge recruitment drive in the plant in recent years or were too stupid to pass the entrance test requirements and simply hated to see others better themselves, but hey, isn't that a very Irish trait.

A man once said to me that if a Cork man and a Waterford man set up shops next to each other in Waterford city the Waterford man's shop would be closed in 12 months while the Cork man's shop flourished and this is to this very day so true.

Waterford people in general hate to see locals better themselves and will either do their best to undermine those that are bettering themselves or simply ridicule then as if they were stepping above their station if they looked for something more.

It's these same people that, while doing the above, will not have the brains or balls to stand up for themselves and look for more and will go through life being envious of those that do.

There was one poor soul that was given airtime who whinged that the average worker in the plant earned 40k per year, the jealously they spewed out while divulging this information across the airwaves was palpable.

I'd like this poor soul to now know that because the workers stood up for themselves the average workers he spoke about will now, once the increases take full affect , be earning 43,800 per year, isn't that great ? Along with extra days off, an improved sick pay scheme, better conditions for new starters and 500 euro sweetener in January to spend in the sales !
I'd say this makes the begrudgers sick, I hope it does.

I for one will do my best to not spend locally anymore as when we needed a bit of local support all we got was demonisation and jealously spewed in our direction.

Now I'm off to think about what car I may buy in the new year or what sunshine holiday I may book in January whilst the begrudgers walk around with their hands in their pockets wondering where it all went wrong.

Don't spend locally that will show the begrudgers. Legend ya are boy.

vixdname

debok wrote: »

Don't spend locally that will show the begrudgers. Legend ya are boy.

Aaah tanks boy

Poor Uncle Tom

debok wrote: »

Don't spend locally that will show the begrudgers. Legend ya are boy.

Become a begrudger to teach the begrudgers.....:D

irony overload...:pac:

vixdname

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Become a begrudger to teach the begrudgers.....:D

irony overload...:pac:

Begrudgery is when someone doesn't like to see someone else do well because they themselves don't do well.

I myself am doing just fine so there's no need for me to begrudge any one anything but I will not be spending my money in the local economy as much as I did in the past.
That's not begrudgery.

debok

vixdname wrote: »

Begrudgery is when someone doesn't like to see someone else do well because they themselves don't do well.

I myself am doing just fine so there's no need for me to begrudge any one anything but I will not be spending my money in the local economy as much as I did in the past.
That's not begrudgery.

How do you know these people begrudging you are not doing well? Maybe there doing just fine as well but just have a different opinion than you on that particular issue.

Poor Uncle Tom

First you regale us with this tale of woe..

vixdname wrote: »

......if a Cork man and a Waterford man set up shops next to each other in Waterford city the Waterford man's shop would be closed in 12 months while the Cork man's shop flourished and this is to this very day so true.

Then you go on to perpetuate the very same drivel.....

vixdname wrote: »

I for one will do my best to not spend locally anymore

vixdname wrote: »

I will not be spending my money in the local economy as much as I did in the past..

There's the irony....

The begrudgery comes in not wanting local businesses to do well...

I didn't think any of that needed explaining.

vixdname

debok wrote: »

How do you know these people begrudging you are not doing well? Maybe there doing just fine as well but just have a different opinion than you on that particular issue.

Because 99% of opinions expressed were based on the " I'm only earning X amount per week and the workers in that factory are earning X amount per week and the cheek if them looking for more"

It's pretty obvious from their stand point it was always about comparing earnings and they believing the workers had no right to look for some more of what was taken from them in 2014

vixdname

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

First you regale us with this tale of woe..



Then you go on to perpetuate the very same drivel.....






There's the irony....

The begrudgery comes in not wanting local businesses to do well...

I didn't think any of that needed explaining.

I always spent locally, but when so many lovely fellow Waterfordians went out of their way to berate the workers because they went looking for some of the wages that was taken from them.2 years ago, when a gun was put to their heads with the ultimatum of take the 20% pay cuts or else we take the plant out of Waterford.

The workers took their livelihoods and the greater community into consideration and took into account how if the plant closed how they personally and the city at large would be affected by such a closure.

They recognised the city would be devastated financially and many other peripheral businesses would probably close as well so they agreed to the cuts.

Then 2 years later when those same workers look for some of what they lost back, the same people and city the workers took into consideration in 2014 called them greedy and gave no support whatsoever.

That's why I and believe me, many others will not be supporting local anytime soon.

debok

vixdname wrote: »

I always spent locally, but when so many lovely fellow Waterfordians went out of their way to berate the workers because they went looking for some of the wages that was taken from them.2 years ago, when a gun was put to their heads with the ultimatum of take the 20% pay cuts or else we take the plant out of Waterford.

The workers took their livelihoods and the greater community into consideration and took into account how if the plant closed how they personally and the city at large would be affected by such a closure.

They recognised the city would be devastated financially and many other peripheral businesses would probably close as well so they agreed to the cuts.

Then 2 years later when those same workers look for some of what they lost back, the same people and city the workers took into consideration in 2014 called them greedy and gave no support whatsoever.

That's why I and believe me, many others will not be supporting local anytime soon.

I'd imagine the vast majority of Waterford people would think fair play to ye for getting something back. Your paying to much notice to the type of people that were on the radio station.

Poor Uncle Tom

vixdname wrote: »

I always spent locally, but when so many lovely fellow Waterfordians went out of their way to berate the workers because they went looking for some of the wages that was taken from them.2 years ago, when a gun was put to their heads with the ultimatum of take the 20% pay cuts or else we take the plant out of Waterford.

The workers took their livelihoods and the greater community into consideration and took into account how if the plant closed how they personally and the city at large would be affected by such a closure.

They recognised the city would be devastated financially and many other peripheral businesses would probably close as well so they agreed to the cuts.

Then 2 years later when those same workers look for some of what they lost back, the same people and city the workers took into consideration in 2014 called them greedy and gave no support whatsoever.

That's why I and believe me, many others will not be supporting local anytime soon.

I understand what you are saying, there was a lot of vitriol expressed towards the proposed stoppages and I for one am glad it didn't get that far but I couldn't tell you for sure what part of the community were most vocal, However, I don't think it was the shop owners or for the most part the business owners around town.

vixdname

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I understand what you are saying, there was a lot of vitriol expressed towards the proposed stoppages and I for one am glad it didn't get that far but I couldn't tell you for sure what part of the community were most vocal, However, I don't think it was the shop owners or for the most part the business owners around town.

I know what you mean, it just seemed that the people who rang in never took into consideration the huge cut in income the workers took both to keep their jobs and keep the city at large going and never took into account that the 20% taken off the workers meant 20% less money being spent into the wider community also.

This in turn also means that the increase the workers got this time round was again going full circle and being again spent in the locality.

It honestly seemed like they didn't take any of that into consideration and just demonised every one working in the plant.

It has to be remembered, and this was very well illustrated by the ballot results, that it was a very small minority of the workers that wanted the industrial action to take place after the new proposal was tabled whilst the huge majority of workers wanted to get back to business as usual.
This wasn't taken into account either when every single worker was being labelled as spoiled or greedy.

Thankfully the action didn't have to take place and everyone's back to work as usual and ready to enjoy Christmas with their families.