Snowflake Generation.

marienbad

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Those things aren't exclusive. I was referring to the people to whom the label applied. You appear to have identified with it.



Ask the bambinos.

A few people have banged on about how their grandfather worked down the fish mines from the time he was a sperm. Back-breaking work for a machine let alone a boy. And he never complained. Not like the snowflakes of today.

How do these people know about the jobs their grandparents did? Maybe they asked grandad. Have you ever had a chat with a young person of today about the jobs they compete for?

My own mother doesn't have a clue what I do as a career. Sometimes she asks and then her eyes glazes over when I tell her. Mainly because she's retired and doesn't realky give a toss what other people do.

It's easy to criticise those who are out fighting for jobs when you don't have to worry about it for yourself.

Go ask a person under 20 what their problems are. Half of them will be things we all whinged about when we were young. Half of them you'll probably dismiss as trivial because you won't understand them.

What a presumptions and condescending post !

El_Duderino 09

marienbad wrote:

What a presumptions and condescending post !

Not going to speak with the people you're happy to make pronouncements about? Jeez the kids have a lot to learn from you alright.

Maybe they're as well doing it their own way

marienbad

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Not going to speak with the people you're happy to make pronouncements about? Jeez the kids have a lot to learn from you alright.

Maybe they're as well doing it their own way

You really should read posts before replying , I have not made one adverse comment about the so called 'snowflake generation '

As for speaking with them , I do it night and day .

Have you anything of substance to say or is it just off the cuff insults ?

El_Duderino 09

marienbad wrote:

As for speaking with them , I do it night and day .

You're keeping yourself busy. That's good or so I hear.

Must have it all sussed at this stage in the game

steddyeddy

It is ridiculous to say that life hasn't got substantially easier in the last few decades. Just compare the eighties to now to use one example. Less chance to go to uni, less chance of getting jobs and the civil service was an extended family.

TallyRand

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The only senior moment us that you're missing the fact that the problems have changed form. Sone problems don't exist anymore which you see as a good thing. And you don't understand the new problems to you discount them. The modern world must look rosey from your perspective. I envy you that.

I genuinely think you have resentment / anger issues with the older generation possibly with your own mother by your description of her eyes glazing over when describing your job.

Look we all have our baggage and pain to some extent but to compare working on the docks at 13 years of age to having to do three rounds of interviews is just off the wall.

And I'm 31 btw

marienbad

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're keeping yourself busy. That's good or so I hear.

Must have it all sussed at this stage in the game

You don't handle disagreement very well do you ? Best leave it there .

TallyRand

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're keeping yourself busy. That's good or so I hear.

Must have it all sussed at this stage in the game

Well you obviously have it all sussed, your single handledly making the case to prove the snowflake generation exists.

El_Duderino 09

TallyRand wrote:

I genuinely think you have resentment / anger issues with the older generation possibly with your own mother by your description of her eyes glazing over when describing your job.

Cheers Sigmund.

TallyRand wrote:

Look we all have our baggage and pain to some extent but to compare working on the docks at 13 years of age to having to do three rounds of interviews is just off the wall.

The problems change firm they don't just disappear. Grandad gets to air Gus grievance and gets kudos for never complaining - even while complaining decades after the fact. Young people of today complain about the problems they have at the time and it's written off as snowflake stuff. Now that's interesting.

El_Duderino 09

TallyRand wrote:

Well you obviously have it all sussed, your single handledly making the case to prove the snowflake generation exists.

I'm older than that. Unless you're using snowflake to mean people you don't agree with. That's just dull though.

It winds my up the way everyone feels free to give the young people of today a kick in the crotch. 'My generation had real problems, not like the young people if today', said smugly by every generation ever as if it was meaningful

TallyRand

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Cheers Sigmund.



The problems change firm they don't just disappear. Grandad gets to air Gus grievance and gets kudos for never complaining - even while complaining decades after the fact. Young people of today complain about the problems they have at the time and it's written off as snowflake stuff. Now that's interesting.

Who's complaining? This is something you must have personal feelings about that I can't agree with you at all on, I actually think most people look back with rose tinted glasses on their conditions and comfort levels in life etc

Also I don't remember hearing generation snowflake in the 90's early 00's. Perhaps coincidentally I dont remember hearing SJW, safe spaces, 101 types of gender either.

El_Duderino 09

marienbad wrote:

You don't handle disagreement very well do you ? Best leave it there .

Righty-o. It'll leave more time to regale the young people about hardship in the fish mines.

That'll keep them away from the SpaceBooks for a few minutes

TallyRand

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm older than that. Unless you're using snowflake to mean people you don't agree with. That's just dull though.

It winds my up the way everyone feels free to give the young people of today a kick in the crotch. 'My generation had real problems, not like the young people if today', said smugly by every generation ever as if it was meaningful

I think your the only person who sounds smug on this thread. As someone already mention this is the best time in the history of mankind to be a youth and be whatever you want to be.

You do know what 18yo's a hundred years where doing in the trenches don't you? No time to be offended as you seem to be when your get a nice lungful of mustard gas

El_Duderino 09

TallyRand wrote:

I think your the only person who sounds smug on this thread. As someone already mention this is the best time in the history of mankind to be a youth and be whatever you want to be.

This is probably the best time to be a child. And if you only look through the prism of what was important to you when you were a child, then you can discount all and any new problems those children face today.

Definitely no need to look at the choices made by the generation before the children of the day. That approach might end up finding fault with the older folks. Can't have that.

TallyRand wrote:

You do know what 18yo's a hundred years where doing in the trenches don't you? No time to be offended as you seem to be when your get a nice lungful of mustard gas

Well it looks like you found the solution for snowflakes. A traumatic baptism of fire should sort it out.

El_Duderino 09

TallyRand wrote:

Who's complaining? This is something you must have personal feelings about that I can't agree with you at all on, I actually think most people look back with rose tinted glasses on their conditions and comfort levels in life etc

This whole thread is for older people to complain about young people.

The people complaining about the young people of today are doing it from behind rose tinted glasses. The notion that nobody complained in the olden days should be ridiculous, even to a fool.

TallyRand wrote:

Also I don't remember hearing generation snowflake in the 90's early 00's. Perhaps coincidentally I dont remember hearing SJW, safe spaces, 101 types of gender either.

Those are modern terms. Why would you gave heard them back in the 90s or early 00?

Do you think the gender stuff started with this generation? I suppose you think people turned gay after the referendum too?

steddyeddy

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This whole thread is for older people to complain about young people.

The people complaining about the young people of today are doing it from behind rose tinted glasses. The notion that nobody complained in the olden days should be ridiculous, even to a fool.



Those are modern terms. Why would you gave heard them back in the 90s or early 00?

Do you think the gender stuff started with this generation? I suppose you think people turned gay after the referendum too?

Yes duderino people were gay and transgender all the way back into antiquity, but they're accepted far more in this day and age than they ever were.

El_Duderino 09

steddyeddy wrote:

Yes duderino people were gay and transgender all the way back into antiquity, but they're accepted far more in this day and age than they ever were.

That's my opinion. That's why I was asking about the other poster's opinion. They brought it up as if transgender had something to do with their dreaded snowflake generation

Irish Guitarist

This 'generation snowflake' shite is usually young people talking about slightly younger people. "Things were much better in the good old days, which was around about 2005". I think they miss the halcyon days of Nuts and Heat magazine and happy slapping or something.

AnGaelach

Rainman16 wrote: »

Do you guys think this is an accurate description of young people today? or is it unfair?

I don't think they're any more or less likely to be soft than previous generations, there's just fewer people willing to call them out on being morons and thanks to social media and the like, you hear of them more often.

Thankfully they're usually holed up in safe spaces or getting in battles on Twitter, so you don't see much of them in real life.

elefant

What I'm getting from this thread:

Everyone blames everyone else.

One thing for sure, the term 'Snowflake' is an objectively insulting term, suggesting that someone is overly sensitive and weak. Using the term at all to describe a person's character, let alone to describe the characters of billions of people around the world, does nothing but stifle actual debate.

Someone needs to perpetuate a new Godwin-esque Rule: labelling someone a snowflake means you automatically lose an argument. At the very least, it automatically confirms you're a tool.

El_Duderino 09

elefant wrote:

Everyone blames everyone else.

I've been testing that hypothesis and it's holding up so far.

Either these young people are actually made from different stuff from their parents or the differences are due to their environment. The kiddies are definitely made from the same flesh and blood as their parents and definitely didn't crate the world as they found it.

In this thread, young people can be blamed for almost anything while older folks are protected from criticism for almost anything. That's a neat argument for older folks to make but it's not likely to shed light on anything in reality.

Keyzer

I became triggered just reading the title of this thread. Must find happy place...

pumpkin4life

Mixed bag in all honesty.

Our generation (I'm early to mid twenties), will have to deal with the fallout of feminism, free trade and automation, excessive uncontrolled multiculturalism, nihilism, falling real wages, obesity, a financial sector far more prone to blowups, a fùcked up sideways housing market, and a learning and education environment that is toxic and makes a lot of people more prone to mental illness.

CSO figures came out with recently that about 15% of 15-24 year olds have seen a councellor in the past year. That ain't good, and there's no doubt that a lot of the above was run by older generations which had nothing to do with us.

On the other hand, the eighties and prior were a fùcking big pile of bum for everyone and in terms of having a safety net;, trying to move up in terms of standing wouldn't have happened either. I would have still been stuck in my home area doing nothing in 1986 Ireland or would be in another country.

Opportunities in 2016 Ireland at least allowed me to do that, to move up. Things (medical conditions for example) which would be harmless today would cause major blowups for example. And a pumpkin lad like me would have gone crazy with some pedo priest telling me what to do.

But otherwise this thread is like The Monty Python sketch i posted earlier:

"when I was your age I was paying 600 euro for a bit of straw in drumcondra!"

"Oh yeah? When I was your age that lad Haughey was in charge and unemplyoment was 20%+"

Barrel of laughs like.

pragmatic1

I think in general this is a great generation of young people.

They seem to have more mature attitudes to alcohol consumption, their health and social issues, than my generation had.

I don't think they're as prone to doing stupid shyte like fighting, drinking to excess and teenage pregnancies.

They get a hard rap because they didn't experience Ireland when we weren't as affluent as we are today.

silverharp

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I think in general this is a great generation of young people.

They seem to have more mature attitudes to alcohol consumption, their health and social issues, than my generation had.

I don't think they're as prone to doing stupid shyte like fighting, drinking to excess and teenage pregnancies.

They get a hard rap because they didn't experience Ireland when we weren't as affluent as we are today.

similar in the UK, binge drinking seems to have topped out. a possible fear with kids growing up now is they will be less social overall and more isolated. if the trend is more people living at home possibly taking the foot off career wise then you will have a generation that is even more passive.
on the plus side kids growing up now wont be beholden to a centralised narrative that the TV age created. My kids basically don't watch TV and will never buy a newspaper but still they will be informed and will challenge their ideas online. maybe there will be a large expansion in different tech areas and opportunities for innovation which would get their creative juices flowing.

circadian

Personally, I think people should be allowed to do whatever they want provided it doesn't harm others.

As for the whole snowflake safe spaces, trigger warnings stuff. I think that it's rare in a real world scenario, social media is a great platform for this to be pushed to the forefront and blown out of proportion.

One thing I do take exception to is the idea of banning those who have controversial or opposing views from speaking publicly. This is a very dangerous precedent and if you don't agree with someone you should be fit to debate their points, not just silence them. I believe that this mentality facilitated the election of Trump as Clinton rarely debates his points and basically just said "I'm better" in an attempt to debunk him.

The current generation of young twentysomethings seem to be less inclined to go on the lash than I did at that age. It may have something to do with the fact that a lot of them would have been relatively well off in early childhood only to see the crash in full swing in early adolescence. How many of them went from a financially stable home to one where one or both parents lost their jobs in the space of a few years? That can leave a lasting impression.

I grew up in the north during the 80's/90's, we had very little to begin with so when I went to university it was a big sesh with some work, I didn't know what it was like to have a financially stable home.

Honestly, I think this generation have a lot of pressure on them. Between the rise of right wing movements, a financial system that is becoming increasingly instable, environmental issues that just seem to be constantly getting out of hand, automation of jobs and the increase in sabre rattling by the largest nations.

I guess you could argue this was the same in the 80's with the cold war, the financial crash, Thatcher etc but maybe with being connected by the internet it all seems a bit more daunting as you can see so many more people sharing your viewpoint.

andekwarhola

There seems to be an inherent irony about getting so constantly worked up about a sector of the population that supposedly get butthurt about everything.

I remember being lectured by my parents in the 80s about how our generation was cosseted and had it good, as I've no doubt, their parents did.

Some of the hyper-offence stuff that gets highlighted like safe space, far-shore left/right stances, triggering etc is defnitely ludicrous but it seems to me to be part of the war to colonize certain extremely/marginal rarified spaces: universities, niche liberal media, internet forums and is not widespread enough to merit labelling an entire generation.

osarusan

"Youngsters are so weak these days" said every generation ever. And when it's pointed out that every generation ever has said that..."Yeah, but this is different."

HensVassal

seamus wrote: »

Every generation is told that they're soft and weak and not as good as their predecessors.

It's all nonsense. The "snowflake" stuff is the swan song of people in the throes of a mid-life crisis who can't accept that they're no longer in tune with the world.

Hear, hear!

Generation X: "We walked to school"

Parents of GenX: "We walked 10 miles to school"

Grandparents of GenX: "We walked 10 miles to school while avoiding Luftwaffe bombs."

Great-grandparents of GenX: "School, Pfft! We walked 10 miles to WORK, at age 5."

dont bother

but it's correct....
this generation (snowflakes) ARE having it easy.
the reason they wont go to get a job is because they think they're above doing the work - eg: they wont work in spar shop, or they wont do this or that...

then they claim "there is no jobs" and "you have to go through 5 stages of interview for these jobs"....

they have been raised on a diet of TV, internet and social media which has brainwashed them into believing (not just "thinking") they deserve, but BELIEVING they are OWED these high powered positions just because they were sent to college by mammy and daddy etc.

they think too much of themselves, and that in turn is the reason why they act like they are offended by everything...
they are mentally deluded into believing that they are literally BETTER than everyone else... so of course it would stand to THEIR reason that "everyone else is lower" and therefore their lower standard of opinion offends me and my DELICATE palate for information.

DEFTLEFTHAND

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I think in general this is a great generation of young people.

They seem to have more mature attitudes to alcohol consumption, their health and social issues, than my generation had.

I don't think they're as prone to doing stupid shyte like fighting, drinking to excess and teenage pregnancies.

They get a hard rap because they didn't experience Ireland when we weren't as affluent as we are today.

Who the Millennials?

I'm Millennial and I don't that's changed at all, if anything I think my gen are more violent and morally bankrupt. Look at the amount social issues caused by young adults which exist in Ireland today, criminality is rife.

I was part of a culture of excessive drinking and drug taking in college. Half the class failed or dropped out because the lifestyle was so intense. Brutal street fights every night outside a club or bar, you could set your watch by them. You saw the absolute worst of people, no dignity, honour or respect.

looksee

dont bother wrote: »

but it's correct....
this generation (snowflakes) ARE having it easy.
the reason they wont go to get a job is because they think they're above doing the work - eg: they wont work in spar shop, or they wont do this or that...

then they claim "there is no jobs" and "you have to go through 5 stages of interview for these jobs"....

they have been raised on a diet of TV, internet and social media which has brainwashed them into believing (not just "thinking") they deserve, but BELIEVING they are OWED these high powered positions just because they were sent to college by mammy and daddy etc.

they think too much of themselves, and that in turn is the reason why they act like they are offended by everything...
they are mentally deluded into believing that they are literally BETTER than everyone else... so of course it would stand to THEIR reason that "everyone else is lower" and therefore their lower standard of opinion offends me and my DELICATE palate for information.

Oh dear, so much bitterness, so much nonsense.

tomwaterford

dont bother wrote: »

but it's correct....
this generation (snowflakes) ARE having it easy.
the reason they wont go to get a job is because they think they're above doing the work - eg: they wont work in spar shop, or they wont do this or that...

then they claim "there is no jobs" and "you have to go through 5 stages of interview for these jobs"....

they have been raised on a diet of TV, internet and social media which has brainwashed them into believing (not just "thinking") they deserve, but BELIEVING they are OWED these high powered positions just because they were sent to college by mammy and daddy etc.

they think too much of themselves, and that in turn is the reason why they act like they are offended by everything...
they are mentally deluded into believing that they are literally BETTER than everyone else... so of course it would stand to THEIR reason that "everyone else is lower" and therefore their lower standard of opinion offends me and my DELICATE palate for information.

It had nothing to do with that this generation for the first ever will be poorer on average than their parents (i wont tbf)

(Surly a sign capitalism has peaked/beginning to fail??)

The older generations just got greedy and fcuked all the youngers over to pay their pensions/greed

....only look at what unions agreed to for the younger teachers-their own members

Wanderer78

tomwaterford wrote:

It had nothing to do with that this generation for the first ever will be poorer on average than their parents (i wont tbf)

tomwaterford wrote:

(Surly a sign capitalism has peaked/beginning to fail??)

You could be right here

tomwaterford wrote:

The older generations just got greedy and fcuked all the youngers over to pay their pensions/greed

greed, it's a complicated one but I do think this is more complicated than we think. We have created extremely complex economic and financial systems that aren't fit for purpose, in which selfish behaviour is almost a must even enforced in order for many to survive, hence the term, 'atomisation' as used by noam chomsky. We better come up with more co-operative systems very quickly or this planet is done

tomwaterford wrote:

....only look at what unions agreed to for the younger teachers-their own members

'Divide and conquer' maybe?

Grayson

tomwaterford wrote: »

It had nothing to do with that this generation for the first ever will be poorer on average than their parents (i wont tbf)

(Surly a sign capitalism has peaked/beginning to fail??)

The older generations just got greedy and fcuked all the youngers over to pay their pensions/greed

....only look at what unions agreed to for the younger teachers-their own members

I agree. If you look at the property market over the last 15 years there's been a massive change. For anyone working anywhere near Dublin renting/owning their own place is a pipe dream. Rent used to account for 1/4 of a persons salary now it's between 1/3 to 1/2. For a youngster today to achieve what their parents had they will have to ear far more than their parents did.

I worked in call centres with people who had degrees and masters (And even a couple of PhD's). They put the work in and look where it got them.

tomwaterford

Grayson wrote: »

I agree. If you look at the property market over the last 15 years there's been a massive change. For anyone working anywhere near Dublin renting/owning their own place is a pipe dream. Rent used to account for 1/4 of a persons salary now it's between 1/3 to 1/2. For a youngster today to achieve what their parents had they will have to ear far more than their parents did.

I worked in call centres with people who had degrees and masters (And even a couple of PhD's). They put the work in and look where it got them.

Even look at cars....I know people who are 2-3 years fulltine before they afford to run even a cheap runabout


I know from talking to my dad and they were unreal poor growing up they could buy admittedly bangers and afford to drive on labouring wages back in the day

Wanderer78

Grayson wrote:

I worked in call centres with people who had degrees and masters (And even a couple of PhD's). They put the work in and look where it got them.

Plan 'worker insecurity' seems to be working just fine as far as I can see!

Wanderer78

tomwaterford wrote:

I know from talking to my dad and they were unreal poor growing up they could buy admittedly bangers and afford to drive on labouring wages back in the day

Something isn't right, 'debt peonage' comes to mind!

tomwaterford

Wanderer78 wrote: »

'Divide and conquer' maybe?

It wasnt though....unions shafted their membership as new members made up such a small%

They literally walked away from the basic principles of looking out for your weakest members first....
If their must been payouts everyone shouldve got them....not just newer members....but they fcuked them over as they were such a small%....pure greed as it was easier sell than payouts for all


I know alot of people whod been involved with unions with years were sick to the stomach over that

Wanderer78

tomwaterford wrote:

It wasnt though....unions shafted their membership as new members made up such a small%

You do make some good points but I think it's a lot more complicated than that, but maybe your right. People are scared, people have been made scared, the last few years have been traumatic for the world, we 've come very close to the abyss, well I think people like yanis varoufakis and David McWilliams are right in saying all we've actually done is, 'extend and pretend' and 'pray and delay'. Be prepared! People think, do and say strange things when they get scared!

looksee

Maybe you were not around when there were missiles pointing at the uk, America etc?

Wanderer78

looksee wrote: »

Maybe you were not around when there were missiles pointing at the uk, America etc?

very good point, chomsky's story about how close we came to total annihilation during the cold war in which we were all saved by pure luck and the bravery of a single russian soldier, is truly terrifying. but theres a new kind of warfare, some call it 'financial terrorism', be afraid, very very afraid!

Austria!

I'm not really aware of figure from Ireland, but globally in the developed world material wealth has increased a lot so young people are better off because we have internet and smartphones and, but house prices are crazy and represent a huge transfer of wealth from the young in particular to the old. Young people growing up now have a much more unequal world to deal with. Also, they're not getting laid anything like previous generations.

Wanderer78

Austria! wrote: »

I'm not really aware of figure from Ireland, but globally in the developed world material wealth has increased a lot so young people are better off because we have internet and smartphones and, but house prices are crazy and represent a huge transfer of wealth from the young in particular to the old. Young people growing up now have a much more unequal world to deal with. Also, they're not getting laid anything like previous generations.

i personally believe true wealth is actually 'trickling up' largely due to the activities of the fire sectors(finance, insurance and real estate), and the most common form of money, i.e. debt, is actually 'trickling down', i.e. most of us have a perception of becoming wealthy, largely due to asset prices etc, but in fact all we re doing is accumulating debt. this accumulation of debt is becoming a very serious problem, some advocating for the 'restructuring' of these debts, in order for 'a true recovery' of the real economy. i think they could be right.

Goya

dont bother wrote: »

but it's correct....
this generation (snowflakes) ARE having it easy.
the reason they wont go to get a job is because they think they're above doing the work - eg: they wont work in spar shop, or they wont do this or that...

then they claim "there is no jobs" and "you have to go through 5 stages of interview for these jobs"....

they have been raised on a diet of TV, internet and social media which has brainwashed them into believing (not just "thinking") they deserve, but BELIEVING they are OWED these high powered positions just because they were sent to college by mammy and daddy etc.

they think too much of themselves, and that in turn is the reason why they act like they are offended by everything...
they are mentally deluded into believing that they are literally BETTER than everyone else... so of course it would stand to THEIR reason that "everyone else is lower" and therefore their lower standard of opinion offends me and my DELICATE palate for information.

I dunno about all of that. I'd agree with some, but in fairness, "millennials" are the ones who were looking for work during a recession (not as bad as the 80s one but there was still a crazy shortage of jobs). I think the preceding generation, of which I am a member - Generation X as it is referred to (people born 1960s to 1980s) - was more self entitled when it came to getting a job, particularly if they had a degree, even though a degree at that stage (Celtic Tiger era) was nothing to be impressed by (unlike 20/30 years beforehand). Jobs were so plentiful during those years too - I mean, almost farcical. I always think of the line in the Hank Scorpio episode of The Simpsons where Smithers says "Can't a man walk down the street these days without being offered a job?!" when I think of the jobs market during the "Tiger".

Millennials haven't had that though.

I also think the whole "You are special and perfect" thing stems from the hippy era of the late 1960s and the 70s being the decade of psychotherapy really getting into full swing, so it's an American import.

The internet shaping of "millennials" (both good and bad) must be huge though.

entropi

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Some comedian who i can't recall says that it's the first generation who grew up receiving participation trophies.

They don't take losing or being told no well.

I think it was Joe Rogan who said that.

IvyTheTerrible

entropi wrote: »

I think it was Joe Rogan who said that.

Yeah, and it wasn't the children who asked for participation trophies,it was their parents who decided everyone should get one.