New Leaf - should I?

loopymum

My car has gone kaput for good so I am considering getting a scrappage deal on a leaf, which model should I be looking at? We will still have one old diesel model for longer journeys.
What's the best price I could get?

Kennypants

loopymum wrote: »

My car has gone kaput for good so I am considering getting a scrappage deal on a leaf, which model should I be looking at? We will still have one old diesel model for longer journeys.
What's the best price I could get?

First of all, I'm not a Leaf owner, but I'm in the process of looking for one. I'm talking to a dealer about potentially buying one here rather than going to the UK. I'm not optimistic that they are really prepared to do a reasonable deal. I only day that to tell you that I am no expert. Others here have much more expertise than I, these opinions are simply my own thoughts as I consider our own needs when choosing our car.

First off, if you're buying new then it shouldn't really be that complicated.

I would say avoid the lowest spec, the XE. As far as I know they are equipped with an otherwise discontinued inefficient heater, which can put a dent in your range come winter.

Other than that, you could consider the 6.6kW charger or larger 30kWh battery as options.

It sounds like that this car will be primarily a runabout, or a second carry for you. If that is the case, you may not need the faster 6.6kW charger if you won't be running up big miles on a daily basis. The faster charging won't make much difference if you are mainly charging the car overnight.

Again, the 30kWh battery is an expensive option at €3,000; that's a lot of money for marginally more range. The benefits would more likely be therapeutic than practical.

On the other hand, if you are willing to pay for those options then they are certainly nice to have. It's better to have them than not. But they are not essential.

Kennypants

By the way, check the terms of the scrappage deal, there are necessary conditions that your car must meet to be accepted for scrappage.

If your car really has gone "kaput for good" then a Nissan dealer may not accept it. Try anyway, though.

I've never heard of a car salesman getting in trouble for selling a car.

KCross

loopymum wrote: »

My car has gone kaput for good so I am considering getting a scrappage deal on a leaf, which model should I be looking at? We will still have one old diesel model for longer journeys.
What's the best price I could get?

You need to condsider a few things

What's distance do you generally drive per day? Then you can get advise on whether you need the 30kWh battery and/or 6.6kW charger or not.

Will it be doing much motorway driving?

Why just the leaf. There is also the Zoe and the Ioniq. They might suit too and the i3 if you have plenty mula!

Are you set on new? You might get a better deal, even considering scrappage, on a 2nd hand.

Will you be able to home charge?

For the Leaf you should get the SV or SVE. Depending on your answers above will decide what extras you need.

loopymum

Thanks for the responses, definitely not plenty of mula unfortunately!

Would probably be the mid-range model if we went for it, Nissan are ringing me back about the non-runner but the criteria on the website seems to be taxed and nct or doe and insured, which the heap kaput car is.

Does anyone know if you can get a five seater commercial crew cab E NV200?

Soarer

Use the Hyundai Ioniq as a stick to beat them with. They're giving €4k scrappage too, and it's a "new" car, as opposed to the Leaf being a few years' old. Plus there's talk of a new Leaf next year, so they'll want to be shifting the current version fairly lively.

steelboots

I bought a new SVE Leaf so got a few nice extras (i.e. Leather Seats, Bose Sound and nicer alloys). I went on PCP as like yourself I was new to the whole EV. 
After 22,000Kms and 11 months here what I would do if I had my time back:
1) Buy second hand, probably UK as there is a serious discount to get.
2) Wouldn't bother with the 6.6K charger, although most here will tell you to get it but I never needed it, I charger at home 95% of the time and the rest is the fast charger.
My plan unless thing change and depends on how the battery holds out would be to hold on to it for as long as it works for me, hopefully 7+ years. 

Best of luck.

BoatMad

I bought a new 30 Kwh Leaf this March

two things

Unless you are very stuck for money, buy the 6kw and 30kwh , you'll not regret having the faster charge . however if your usage requirements are low " runabout " then may the 24Kwh SV ( with cold ) pack should be considered

second hand from the UK , is ok , deals are generally not as good as earlier in the year, as sterling has recovered and the glut of 2nd hand leafs is subsiding. so it remains to be seen

on a PCP , the difference of 90 and 3000 for the charger and battery , are not that great month to month, as the GMFV will be a bit higher , helping you manage cash flow.

Personally Id be vary of very cheap 2nd hand leafs as well

best of luck, you'll find it will become your primary car, you'll do far more milage then you think and you'll try and avoid the ICE all the time

n97 mini

6kw allows you to get far more out of the SCPs (the slower public chargers) which are more plentiful. E.g. do the weekly shop at Tesco, come back to the car park and the car is charged. It's not good etiquette to abandon the car at a FCP (fast charge point), but it's ok to leave it for a few hours at an SCP.

isnottheword

BoatMad wrote: »

second hand from the UK , is ok , deals are generally not as good as earlier in the year, as sterling has recovered and the glut of 2nd hand leafs is subsiding. so it remains to be seen

Strangely, seems to be more the latter than the former. I bought on the brink of brexit - so didn't get the full benefit of the £GBP drop that immediately followed.

Have been tracking UK prices since - and they don't seem to be as tasty as they were back then.

Kennypants

loopymum wrote: »

Does anyone know if you can get a five seater commercial crew cab E NV200?

No such vehicle exists, I think.

There is a passenger model available, but not in Ireland. This is not the same thing as a five-seater crew cab version though.

You could pick up a used passenger version in the UK without too much difficulty, I'd imagine.

GreenHills101

Would you recommend buying a second hand leaf? I am thinking of going this way but worried about the resale value.

isnottheword

GreenHills101 wrote: »

Would you recommend buying a second hand leaf? I am thinking of going this way but worried about the resale value.

What price-point are you considering?/what are you budgeting to spend?


I bought 2nd hand - and also had concerns about depreciation. However, prices for similar to what I bought (in the uk) seem to have gone up - and I believe there will always be a residual value for that car. i.e. at a later stage - for smaller money - it's still going to suit someone living in the city possibly as a second car. That will help hold its value.


At the moment, there are savings to be made - I'm saving 160 euro on fuel with each passing month - albeit that we can't expect this to continue indefinitely.

The vast bulk of the depreciation happens in the first 48-72 months of a new Leaf.

GreenHills101

isnottheword wrote: »

What price-point are you considering?/what are you budgeting to spend?


I bought 2nd hand - and also had concerns about depreciation. However, prices for similar to what I bought (in the uk) seem to have gone up - and I believe there will always be a residual value for that car. i.e. at a later stage - for smaller money - it's still going to suit someone living in the city possibly as a second car. That will help hold its value.


At the moment, there are savings to be made - I'm saving 160 euro on fuel with each passing month - albeit that we can't expect this to continue indefinitely.

The vast bulk of the depreciation happens in the first 48-72 months of a new Leaf.

Thanks for the reply. I don't know about budget yet, would have about 11k cash and could borrow a few more k if needed. We only drive about 20 mins each way to work so only spend about 150 a month on fuel.

isnottheword

GreenHills101 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I don't know about budget yet, would have about 11k cash and could borrow a few more k if needed. We only drive about 20 mins each way to work so only spend about 150 a month on fuel.

Your initial concern was with regard to resale value. If you buy at a 2-3 year price point in the UK, then you should be fine. i.e. there will still be depreciation - potentially greater than ICE (given that this is a disruptive technology which is changing pretty quickly). Notwithstanding that, as I suggested in my last post, it appears that UK 2nd hands have gone up in price over the last couple of months.


Other question is how long do you normally keep a car?

Are you a one car household? Can work out well to have 2nd car as ICE (for the odd time you do long trips - albeit I just rely on an EV).

magentis

isnottheword wrote: »

What price-point are you considering?/what are you budgeting to spend?


I bought 2nd hand - and also had concerns about depreciation. However, prices for similar to what I bought (in the uk) seem to have gone up - and I believe there will always be a residual value for that car. i.e. at a later stage - for smaller money - it's still going to suit someone living in the city possibly as a second car. That will help hold its value.


At the moment, there are savings to be made - I'm saving 160 euro on fuel with each passing month - albeit that we can't expect this to continue indefinitely.

The vast bulk of the depreciation happens in the first 48-72 months of a new Leaf.

I'm not so sure on your point about residuals on these.As ev range improves and the batteries in older cars deteriorate i'm not so sure anyone will want them when they are older.

isnottheword

magentis wrote: »

I'm not so sure on your point about residuals on these.As ev range improves and the batteries in older cars deteriorate i'm not so sure anyone will want them when they are older.

I used to think that but I've changed my opinion on the matter. That said, it depends at what point that you wish to sell on. Is that year 3 or year 6,7 or 8 etc?


If you are a city dweller and hardly ever leave the city (or a city dweller in a 2 car household where there would be no need for 1 of those cars to do anything other than short runs), then a used, older EV at the right pricepoint will be an attractive proposition to someone.

BoatMad

GreenHills101 wrote: »

Would you recommend buying a second hand leaf? I am thinking of going this way but worried about the resale value.

Why are you particularly worried about resale. If the EV markets build over the next few years I'd expect good residuals.

oinkely

Seems the UK market is coming on a bit, I appreciate that there are good and bad times of the year to buy in the UK, and a fabulous deal can pop up at any time. That aside, when I was looking March there was a reasonable choice of 63 plate (141) accentas to choose from around the 9K sterling price point. From a recent search on atuotrader the choice at that price is greatly reduced and the 64 plate ones are generally in the 9.5k sterling region or more. Note this is from main dealers, but that is what I was looking at in March also.

BoatMad

second hand pricing is almost purely a function of demand. IN the UK , a huge wave of ex-PCP new Leafs entered the 2nd hand market t once and there was not enough buyers to take up the cars, hence " supply and demand " forced a drop in prices.

of course the doom and gloom merchants were out in force , blaming " disruptive technology " ( as if electric motors are disruptive !!) . IN ireland the future residuals will be based solely on demand for EVs in general . If EV demand is good, then there will be a coterie of buyers that cannot buy new and hence will compete in the 2nd market, that will drive residuals up. If on the other hand EV takeup was to decline or stall, then residuals will tank, irrespective of the quality of the car

BoatMad

oinkely wrote: »

Seems the UK market is coming on a bit, I appreciate that there are good and bad times of the year to buy in the UK, and a fabulous deal can pop up at any time. That aside, when I was looking March there was a reasonable choice of 63 plate (141) accentas to choose from around the 9K sterling price point. From a recent search on atuotrader the choice at that price is greatly reduced and the 64 plate ones are generally in the 9.5k sterling region or more. Note this is from main dealers, but that is what I was looking at in March also.

make sure none are rental batteries

cros13

Kennypants wrote: »

No such vehicle exists, I think.

There is a passenger model available, but not in Ireland. This is not the same thing as a five-seater crew cab version though.

The eNV200 Evalia is available in 5 and 7 seats configurations... and yes it is orderable from any of the Leaf dealers in Ireland (Even if they don't know it themselves).

It's got a 24kWh Mk 1.5 Leaf pack with the addition of a battery cooling system to allow very frequent rapid charging. Range isn't the best... ~10-15% below the 24kWh Leaf.

There were plans to adapt the 30kWh pack for the eNV200 but they were shelved in favor of waiting for a larger pack due to weak demand.

isnottheword

BoatMad wrote: »

of course the doom and gloom merchants were out in force , blaming " disruptive technology " ( as if electric motors are disruptive !!) .

It is disruptive by comparison with ICE - which has changed in very subtle iterations from model year to model year over the past age. EV's of more recent years are new - and changing rapidly - particularly in terms of battery technology - which is key.

Naturally, as range goes up, those cars will become more desirable and the older ones very much less so.

That said, I do agree that there will be reasonable residuals for older models - as they will be a good fit for a certain proportion of the car buying public.

BoatMad

isnottheword wrote: »

It is disruptive by comparison with ICE - which has changed in very subtle iterations from model year to model year over the past age. EV's of more recent years are new - and changing rapidly - particularly in terms of battery technology - which is key.

Naturally, as range goes up, those cars will become more desirable and the older ones very much less so.

That said, I do agree that there will be reasonable residuals for older models - as they will be a good fit for a certain proportion of the car buying public.

THere is nothing particularly disruptive about EVs, it remains a car, simply powered slightly differently, electric traction has been around close to 100 years and Lithiums are close to 25 year old technology at this stage .

whats potentially " disruptive " is technology like driver automation and ultimately driverless cars, which could induce entirely new approaches to personal private transportation and car ownership . But that technology is largely independent of motive power

railways " disrupted " the existing camel based transport model , the change from steam engines to diesel or electric locomotives was not disruptive, merely evolutionary , EVs are evolutionary but not in themselves disruptive

isnottheword

BoatMad wrote: »

THere is nothing particularly disruptive about EVs, it remains a car, simply powered slightly differently, electric traction has been around close to 100 years and Lithiums are close to 25 year old technology at this stage .

whats potentially " disruptive " is technology like driver automation and ultimately driverless cars, which could induce entirely new approaches to personal private transportation and car ownership . But that technology is largely independent of motive power

railways " disrupted " the existing camel based transport model , the change from steam engines to diesel or electric locomotives was not disruptive, merely evolutionary , EVs are evolutionary but not in themselves disruptive

You're talking in terms of degrees of disruptivity. Of course, it's not going to be as disruptive as driver automation and driverless cars (albeit that they're likely to go hand in hand - doesn't have to be the case but driverless cars are being developed by and large on an EV base).

EV's are still disruptive in terms of the charging network - i.e. how we currently 'fuel' our cars and how we will end up fueling our cars when the whole thing matures. It's disruptive for the motor industry in terms of the level of servicing that will be required. Yes, electric traction and batteries have been around for years - but not until recently has it become a feasible proposition for private transportation. That's happening due to major (and continued) technological advancement - mainly in battery technology.

They're disruptive as they're going to present us with problems and opportunities as regards how we manage our power infrastructure and usage, what options we rely on for the actual source power, etc.

Go out and ask a few local mechanics if they see the current and ongoing development of EV's as disruptive and see what answer they'll give you.

KCross

Car manufacturers rely on after sales parts and servicing for their profit. There will be a lot less of that when EV takes hold so it is hugely disruptive to them.

It's still just a car so an evolution from that perspective but it is disruptive for sure.

adam88

isnottheword wrote: »

You're talking in terms of degrees of disruptivity. Of course, it's not going to be as disruptive as driver automation and driverless cars (albeit that they're likely to go hand in hand - doesn't have to be the case but driverless cars are being developed by and large on an EV base).

EV's are still disruptive in terms of the charging network - i.e. how we currently 'fuel' our cars and how we will end up fueling our cars when the whole thing matures. It's disruptive for the motor industry in terms of the level of servicing that will be required. Yes, electric traction and batteries have been around for years - but not until recently has it become a feasible proposition for private transportation. That's happening due to major (and continued) technological advancement - mainly in battery technology.

They're disruptive as they're going to present us with problems and opportunities as regards how we manage our power infrastructure and usage, what options we rely on for the actual source power, etc.

Go out and ask a few local mechanics if they see the current and ongoing development of EV's as disruptive and see what answer they'll give you.

Some of these mechanics also gave out about computer software getting into cars and didn't want to connect cars to computers to find out the fault. These mechanics will just have to move with the times and get with the technology

BoatMad

isnottheword wrote: »

You're talking in terms of degrees of disruptivity. Of course, it's not going to be as disruptive as driver automation and driverless cars (albeit that they're likely to go hand in hand - doesn't have to be the case but driverless cars are being developed by and large on an EV base).

EV's are still disruptive in terms of the charging network - i.e. how we currently 'fuel' our cars and how we will end up fueling our cars when the whole thing matures. It's disruptive for the motor industry in terms of the level of servicing that will be required. Yes, electric traction and batteries have been around for years - but not until recently has it become a feasible proposition for private transportation. That's happening due to major (and continued) technological advancement - mainly in battery technology.

They're disruptive as they're going to present us with problems and opportunities as regards how we manage our power infrastructure and usage, what options we rely on for the actual source power, etc.

Go out and ask a few local mechanics if they see the current and ongoing development of EV's as disruptive and see what answer they'll give you.

I don't see EVs disrupting anything in the medium term. The user usage patterns are largely the same. It's still a car . Public charging will look a lot like mainstream filling stations . Servicing is still required and as they age , backstreet EV savvy mechanics will still have role ( battery replacements , mechanical parts etc ) . Ice will continue along side for two decades at least. Hardly disruptive.

Driverless cars , now that's disruption

isnottheword

BoatMad wrote: »

I don't see EVs disrupting anything in the medium term. The user usage patterns are largely the same. It's still a car . Public charging will look a lot like mainstream filling stations . Servicing is still required and as they age , backstreet EV savvy mechanics will still have role ( battery replacements , mechanical parts etc ) . Ice will continue along side for two decades at least. Hardly disruptive.

Driverless cars , now that's disruption

I don't disagree - and I really hope that third party independent services develop (some horror stories of less fortunate EV owners having to fork out wads of cash for EV repairs - they seem to be the exception to the rule but if it happens right now, main dealers can't really be avoided).

Lets not get hung up on the term 'disruptive'. Perhaps a more subtle description applies. Notwithstanding that, it will mean changes for the car servicing industry in Ireland. People are worried about the residuals on EVs right now but equally, that could flip 360* at some stage where they may need to worry about the residuals on diesels (depending upon government policy/taxes, etc.).