Aleppo

Gatling

gitzy16v wrote: »

Did you watch Vanessa Beeley...does she work for RT too?

Watched it and like so many onesided so called independent pieces it's full of I was told ,this and I was told that ,
But why are people who fled Aleppo saying the polar opposite ,
I did happen to notice though both eva bartlett and Vanessa beeley happen to be involved with and pro Palestinian .

I know people see independent but we get a very one sided discussion oh the msm were wrong and I'm not. both so called journalists / activists happen to walk into one part of allepo for 3 days and interview people who are apparently only pro assad,
Despite him killing thousands .

The Assad regime blocked the majority of media outlets from entering Syria over the last 5 years now all of a sudden two women pop up with very similar back rounds and allegiances saying they have the truth ,
So why haven't they spoke to both side and given an honest report with both sides of given time and let people decide who is and who isn't telling the truth ,

gitzy16v

Gatling wrote: »

Watched it and like so many onesided so called independent pieces it's full of I was told ,this and I was told that ,
But why are people who fled Aleppo saying the polar opposite ,
I did happen to notice though both eva bartlett and Vanessa beeley happen to be involved with and pro Palestinian .

I know people see independent but we get a very one sided discussion oh the msm were wrong and I'm not. both so called journalists / activists happen to walk into one part of allepo for 3 days and interview people who are apparently only pro assad,
Despite him killing thousands .

The Assad regime blocked the majority of media outlets from entering Syria over the last 5 years now all of a sudden two women pop up with very similar back rounds and allegiances saying they have the truth ,
So why haven't they spoke to both side and given an honest report with both sides of given time and let people decide who is and who isn't telling the truth ,

The MSM,i assume BBC,RTE all the various English and American papers,they quote "sources"gave them info...same sources these independent journalists have...why are they liars?

Gatling

gitzy16v wrote: »

The MSM,i assume BBC,RTE all the various English and American papers,they quote "sources"gave them info...same sources these independent journalists have...why are they liars?

None of the so called journalists or media are telling the truth there selling and peddling misinformation and muddying the waters ,

For instance we get a claim of atrocities from one side one particular incident gets a mention and chemical weapons attacks yet we keep hearing west allepo is some kind of utopia where life has been untouched by war the same with Damascus ,none of which gets mentioned even in the Kremlin media who would normally e all over it ,but no there quite about it ,which is odd considering some of the stuff they come out with ,
And vice versa but we've nobody questioning both sides .
True independent reports but that won't happen in Syria because they are only allowing particular people to give so called independent pieces ,

Assad has denied chemical weapons ,we know through the UN he was used chemical weapons as have Isis in Syria,
We know assad has dropped hundreds if not thousands of indiscriminate barrel bombs in civillian areas ,
Assad publicly stated they had no such weapons because he had only bullets and bombs,

Then we get posters cliaming anything that isn't pro assad, is fake news but can't show or prove what exactly there claiming as fake and it's repeated through this particular thread ,

Ferrari3600

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Nassim Taleb (black swan guy) weighs in on Syria:

https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/809030025517432832

Useful - thanks for this.

gitzy16v

Gatling wrote: »

None of the so called journalists or media are telling the truth there selling and peddling misinformation and muddying the waters ,

For instance we get a claim of atrocities from one side one particular incident gets a mention and chemical weapons attacks yet we keep hearing west allepo is some kind of utopia where life has been untouched by war the same with Damascus ,none of which gets mentioned even in the Kremlin media who would normally e all over it ,but no there quite about it ,which is odd considering some of the stuff they come out with ,
And vice versa but we've nobody questioning both sides .
True independent reports but that won't happen in Syria because they are only allowing particular people to give so called independent pieces ,

Assad has denied chemical weapons ,we know through the UN he was used chemical weapons as have Isis in Syria,
We know assad has dropped hundreds if not thousands of indiscriminate barrel bombs in civillian areas ,
Assad publicly stated they had no such weapons because he had only bullets and bombs,

Then we get posters cliaming anything that isn't pro assad, is fake news but can't show or prove what exactly there claiming as fake and it's repeated through this particular thread ,

of course we get claims of atrocities on both side...both are committing them...ISIS,AlQ,Al Nusra are the real enemy right now,we can deal with Assad and Putin later
Nour al-Din al-Zinki beheaded a 12 yr old boy add them to the list too

Ferrari3600

Gatling wrote: »

We know assad has dropped hundreds if not thousands of indiscriminate barrel bombs in civillian areas

Oh noes, are you saying Assad is as bad as Churchill & Bomber Harris? :eek:

Autonomous Cowherd

Gatling wrote: »

both so called journalists / activists happen to walk into one part of allepo for 3 days and interview people who are apparently only pro assad,

Vanessa Beeley and Eva Bartlett have neither of them happened ''to walk into one part of Allepo for 3 days''. If you researched a bit further you would know that they have both - at considerable risk to their lives - spent several months this year in Syria.I imagine that is not something you would do. Bartlett has been travelling there since 2014. Beeley is still there at the moment, reporting in the last couple of days from Damascus, and Bartlett is on a tour of US, presenting her on the ground experiences to an American audience. She has also spoken very recently at a UN presentation. Beeley spent much of her childhood living in the Middle East, as her father was a UK diplomat there, and both are activists regarding Palestine (something you seem to consider as a dishonour, but I do not share your sentiment.) Personally, I would much prefer to hear and consider what Beeley and Bartlett have to say about what is happening on the ground in Aleppo rather than give much or any consideration to YOUR evaluation of it from a safe 5000 kms away.

Hande hoche!

Seems like the evacuation is back on. Positive development.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/syrian-rebel-official-aleppo-evacuation-161217070531129.html

threeiron

Interesting error in the headline, saying the buses were on their way to Aleppo: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2016/12/18/Buses-attacked-burned-on-way-to-Aleppo-.html

HensVassal

osmiumartist wrote: »

The Israelis have the best gear and men, but come on. Facing Russia with Iran and Syria onside is utter suicide.

Hizbollah handed the IDF's ass to them in 2006.

HensVassal

Gatling wrote: »

When did that happen Assad has already publicly stated he's staying till 2021 at least ,
he will runs in the next election after that against himself

Whoosh!

Gatling

HensVassal wrote: »

Hizbollah handed the IDF's ass to them in 2006.

Nonsense

120 IDF killed and 600-800 hizbollah killed with another 600 others killed ,

If that's handing them their ass , sounds something a 10 year old who say playing PlayStation

HensVassal

Gatling wrote: »

Nonsense

120 IDF killed and 600-800 hizbollah killed with another 600 others killed ,

If that's handing them their ass , sounds something a 10 year old who say playing PlayStation

The IDF were resoundly defeated in their invasion of Lebanon. That they killed 600+ Lebanese civilians before they were driven out leaving scores of burnt Merkava tanks behind doesn't equate to a victory much like you seem to want to think.

You're a parody at this stage.

Gatling

HensVassal wrote: »

The IDF were resoundly defeated in their invasion of Lebanon. That they killed 600+ Lebanese civilians before they were driven out leaving scores of burnt Merkava tanks behind

.

Lol yeah you poor unfortunate sod
Facts please not made up stuff

But back to allepo

Actually Israel has repeatedly struck targets inside Syria repeatedly with impunity over the last few years ,

HensVassal

Gatling wrote: »

.

Lol yeah you poor unfortunate sod
Facts please not made up stuff

But back to allepo

Actually Israel has repeatedly struck targets inside Syria repeatedly with impunity over the last few years ,

Are you trying to say that the IDF wasn't defeated in Lebanon in 2006?

I've heard it all now. Your lies are legendary. A Boards legacy.

Gatling

HensVassal wrote: »

. Not worthy of a ban

FTA69

What is your perspective of what's going in Syria Gatling? As far as I'm concerned it's a multi-faceted civil war in which the chief protagonists are a dictator and an opposition wholly dominated by Islamist anti-democrats. In the mix then we have Russia and the US getting stuck in for their own selfish interests.

I can't really understand this narrative coming from some people about how a gallant rebel group is fighting for freedom against evil Assad when the situation is clearly more nuanced.

J Mysterio

FTA69 wrote: »

What is your perspective of what's going in Syria Gatling? As far as I'm concerned it's a multi-faceted civil war in which the chief protagonists are a dictator and an opposition wholly dominated by Islamist anti-democrats. In the mix then we have Russia and the US getting stuck in for their own selfish interests.

I can't really understand this narrative coming from some people about how a gallant rebel group is fighting for freedom against evil Assad when the situation is clearly more nuanced.

Indeed. In fact, Assad winning would seem to be the most desirable result.

Jelle1880

HensVassal wrote: »

The IDF were resoundly defeated in their invasion of Lebanon. That they killed 600+ Lebanese civilians before they were driven out leaving scores of burnt Merkava tanks behind doesn't equate to a victory much like you seem to want to think.

You're a parody at this stage.

None of that changes osmiumartist's claim that the IDF have by far the best equipment and trained troops in the entire region. That's like saying the US isn't the world's best military because they lost in Vietnam.

FTA69

J Mysterio wrote: »

Indeed. In fact, Assad winning would seem to be the most desirable result.

It wouldn't be desirable for the people sick of his rule or those who earn the enmity of his secret police and long term it would bind Syria and its people to being clients of Russia and Putin. That having been said, we only have to look at Libya and Iraq to see the state of those places now. Anyone who thinks that the current crop looking to overthrow Assad are going to set up some sort of utopian democracy is codding themselves in the extreme. In all likelihood, the concept of a "Syria" as we know it is probably dead.

Gatling

FTA69 wrote: »

What is your perspective of what's going in Syria Gatling? As far as I'm concerned it's a multi-faceted civil war in which the chief protagonists are a dictator and an opposition wholly dominated by Islamist anti-democrats. In the mix then we have Russia and the US getting stuck in for their own selfish interests.

Totally agree it's a civil war in the traditional sense and in a proxy sense between iran and Saudi over who's version of Islam is top dog in the region ,
Yes america and russia but for different reasons ask why america got involved they didn't straight away , when they got involved they were pretty late to the party yes they spent $500 million setting up a training center for rebels which was a total failure and a massive mistake ,
They didn't arm Isis and didn't create them (they did sow the seeds ).
Saudi and Turkey have been the main agitators along with Iran and suppling to both sides to gain there own goals.,
Turkey doesn't want a independent Kurdish state and Iran wants to weaken the whole region is a policy which started back in the second gulf war ,
But we keep getting posters blaming Nato who have feck all involvment in the crisis so some reason other than they need a bogey man to excuse Assad and putins targeting civilian populations and infrastructure ,
I don't cheer for the rebels not by a long shot but Assad is now in a weaker position than ever before he's no army or police force to hold ground and stabilise the country ,
hence why I've repeatedly said this war is far from over .
Foreign allied militias are running around the country along with terror groups with impunity ,and nobody has control over them ,Iran , hizbollah and other groups have suffered heavy losses over the last number of years won't just go way in a few years time ,

Syria as we knew it is gone and won't be coming back unfortunately

Autonomous Cowherd

Gatling wrote: »

Syria as we knew it is gone and won't be coming back unfortunately

That's not necessarily true at all. Even the mainstream narrative is changing of late as there is just so much reportage coming out of Syria from independent sources contradicting the accepted stories that they cannot hold the line (lie). Syria can be rebuilt, check out some of the alt media reporters named in various places on this thread and on their facebook feeds you will find images of resurgence - such as bombed restaurants where people had been recently slaughtered open for business again in Damascus and thriving. As one man said - Andrew Ashdown who I am going to link you to - in a recent report, just as Beirut is coming back from 20 years of devastation, so can Syria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbEXYaJJrek

Andrew Ashdown, Anglican priest and PhD researcher in Christian-Muslim relations in University of Wincester, in Aleppo a couple of days ago.

Ashdown's blog description of a visit to Syria in September.
http://www.andrewashdown.me.uk/2016/09/report-of-visit-to-syria-31-august-7.html

HensVassal

FTA69 wrote: »

What is your perspective of what's going in Syria Gatling? As far as I'm concerned it's a multi-faceted civil war in which the chief protagonists are a dictator and an opposition wholly dominated by Islamist anti-democrats. In the mix then we have Russia and the US getting stuck in for their own selfish interests.

I can't really understand this narrative coming from some people about how a gallant rebel group is fighting for freedom against evil Assad when the situation is clearly more nuanced.

Assad enjoys 70+% support from his people. How can that be a dictator? Because some people in the West say so?

HensVassal

Jelle1880 wrote: »

None of that changes osmiumartist's claim that the IDF have by far the best equipment and trained troops in the entire region. That's like saying the US isn't the world's best military because they lost in Vietnam.

Having fancy equipment is not much of a boast if you don't know how to use it or your enemy is smarter and more committed than you are.

FTA69

HensVassal wrote: »

Assad enjoys 70+% support from his people. How can that be a dictator? Because some people in the West say so?

I know, and that's down hugely from the 98% he got in 2007 when he was the only candidate. God he must be very popular indeed.

I mean who would have thought a Baathist supremo who bans websites like YouTube and Facebook and presides over a Mukhabarat that tortures people could be called anything less than a democrat. Funnily enough Erdogan does the same and is condemned but when Assad is at it it's grand like.

Trying to portray Baathism as anything except secular strongman politics is a load of spoof.

Hande hoche!

See that the UN security council have actually voted to deploy UN observers to oversee the evacuations in Aleppo. Should be a positive development for those on the ground.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/security-council-backs-sending-observers-aleppo-161219141355061.html

Gatling

Hande hoche! wrote: »

See that the UN security council have actually voted to deploy UN observers to oversee the evacuations in Aleppo. Should be a positive development for those on the ground.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/security-council-backs-sending-observers-aleppo-161219141355061.html

Downside is russian interference that allowed a clause where all observers must be personally approved by Assad which means the process could take a few months to another year before any observers hit the ground.

This says it all

"Syria's UN ambassador, Bashar Jaafari, decried the resolution, saying that it was "just another part of the continued propaganda against Syria"

Jelle1880

HensVassal wrote: »

Having fancy equipment is not much of a boast if you don't know how to use it or your enemy is smarter and more committed than you are.

You genuinely believe the IDF don't know how to use their 'fancy equipment' ?
Using one loss (even that is debatable) as some sort of proof that their army isn't up to scratch makes absolutely zero sense.

There's a reason Israel still exists despite their neighbours' best efforts.
inb4 'but 'Murican monies'

HensVassal wrote: »

Assad enjoys 70+% support from his people. How can that be a dictator? Because some people in the West say so?

That was during or near the start of the conflict, wasn't it ? I'm sure most of the Syrians would prefer him over the Islamist nutjobs but if given the choice in fair elections (so not running against himself) I wouldn't be surprised if he would be well below that number. But yeah, that doesn't mean he's a dictator.

jmayo

HensVassal wrote: »

Having fancy equipment is not much of a boast if you don't know how to use it or your enemy is smarter and more committed than you are.

What a load of shyte.

Are you seriously trying to say the IDF doesn't know how to use it's weaponary ?
They have had the best army, conscripts as well, in that neck of the woods for decades.
Yes as we all know fighting a terrorist enemy is never easy for a conventional army, but they have one advantage.
They don't give two sh**s about public opinion of the Western World, don't have to deal with guilt ridden masses at home and they could care less about the UN.

The only weakness in Israel's defense nowadays may be the lack of inside knowledge whereas once they were plugged into the highest echelons of power in their neighbours.

And you actually think the Israelis aren't committed?
They have defied the odds since the very foundation of their state.
They know if they lose a war they would be slaughtered and there is no way in hell they can even countenance a return to another holocaust.

I don't get where the idea of Israel invading Syria has come from because logically they need Assad.
Fair enough if he is weakened and not a threat, but the devil you know and all that.
They can actually do a deal with him whereas there is no way in hell they can reach any sort of accommodation with the likes of Jabhat Al Nusra, Islamic Front groups, or ISIS.

The thing that is probably really worrying Israel is how much knowledge Hezbollah is gaining in the war and how much power it will end up with in the new environment.

Elmer Blooker

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That was during or near the start of the conflict, wasn't it ? I'm sure most of the Syrians would prefer him over the Islamist nutjobs but if given the choice in fair elections (so not running against himself) I wouldn't be surprised if he would be well below that number. But yeah, that doesn't mean he's a dictator.

O please spare us the "fair elections" stuff.
The ... ahem ... moderates will do everything in their power to disrupt them!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7368087/Iraq-polling-stations-hit-by-string-of-bomb-attacks.html

nacho libre

So I wonder did Qatar or the Saudis have any hand in the killing of the Russian ambassador, seeing as they are probably smarting over the defeat of their rebels in Aleppo?

nacho libre

jmayo wrote: »

The only weakness in Israel's defense nowadays may be the lack of inside knowledge whereas once they were plugged into the highest echelons of power in their neighbours.

.

I don't think so. Israel gets anyone on their assassination list eventually, that speaks to me of good intelligence assets. With this in mind they will probably get to Nasrallah eventually.

There is a good interview with an ex mossad chief broadcast on RT.

cameramonkey

jmayo wrote: »

What a load of shyte.

Are you seriously trying to say the IDF doesn't know how to use it's weaponary ?
They have had the best army, conscripts as well, in that neck of the woods for decades.

Who were they fighting? The Syria army, the Egyptian army, the Jordanian and assorted militias and also unarmed civilian. You can see how bad these armies are in that they cant even fight against Isis or the rag tag jihadists.
The Israeli army are not comparable to organized western armies, they would be routed by the Americans, the British or the big European powers. The Israelis couldn't even defeat a few thousand lightly armed Hezbollah fighters.

Jelle1880

cameramonkey wrote: »

Who were they fighting? The Syria army, the Egyptian army, the Jordanian and assorted militias and also unarmed civilian. You can see how bad these armies are in that they cant even fight against Isis or the rag tag jihadists.
The Israeli army are not comparable to organized western armies, they would be routed by the Americans, the British or the big European powers. The Israelis couldn't even defeat a few thousand lightly armed Hezbollah fighters.

They were fighting Syrian, Egyptian and Jordan soldiers... in Lebanon ?

Hezbollah is a well-trained group who have a lot of funding from abroad, this shows in the equipment they used against Israel. High tech anti tank weaponry etc. from Russian manufacturing for example. They're not a ragtag like some of the rebels in Syria or Iraq.

Hezbollah no doubt claims a victory, but I'm positive that if the UN hadn't stepped in to establish a ceasefire Israel would have simply ground Hezbollah down. It's a numbers game at that point, the IDF have far more material, troops and money at their disposal.

Gringo180

Gatling wrote: »

Nonsense

120 IDF killed and 600-800 hizbollah killed with another 600 others killed ,

If that's handing them their ass , sounds something a 10 year old who say playing PlayStation

Lol.

cameramonkey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

They were fighting Syrian, Egyptian and Jordan soldiers... in Lebanon ?

Hezbollah is a well-trained group who have a lot of funding from abroad, this shows in the equipment they used against Israel. High tech anti tank weaponry etc. from Russian manufacturing for example. They're not a ragtag like some of the rebels in Syria or Iraq.

Hezbollah no doubt claims a victory, but I'm positive that if the UN hadn't stepped in to establish a ceasefire Israel would have simply ground Hezbollah down. It's a numbers game at that point, the IDF have far more material, troops and money at their disposal.

He said "They(Israel) have had the best army, conscripts as well, in that neck of the woods for decades." So in those decades they have fought against many army armies. I was pointing out that those Arab armies are not very good, they may be good at keeping their own people in check but they are useless fighting against other military powers even ones that are not that competent like many of the Israeli units.

Hezbollah are well trained but they are lightly armed, they have no air defense against one of the best equipped air forces in the world, they had no heavy artillery, no heavy armored vehicles, no aircraft, no navy, in fact very little except anti-tank missiles, RPGs, unguided rockets and their own light weaponry. The Israelis were unprepared and not up to battling against even such a lightly armed group of no more than a few thousand.

This wasn't the first time that Hezbollah had forced the Israelis and their proxy's to withdraw from Lebanon. The Israelis also withdrew unconditional in 2000 after being defeated by Hezbollah.

Gyalist

Bashar Ja’afari, the Syrian ambassador to the U.N. yesterday officially confirmed the news that began circulating last Friday of the arrest of US-coalition military officers in East Aleppo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywBO6AMldM

Mutaz Kanoğlu – Turkey
David Scott Winer – USA
David Shlomo Aram – Israel
Muhamad Tamimi – Qatar
Muhamad Ahmad Assabian – Saudi
Abd-el-Menham Fahd al Harij – Saudi
Islam Salam Ezzahran Al Hajlan – Saudi
Ahmed Ben Naoufel Al Darij – Saudi
Muhamad Hassan Al Sabihi – Saudi
Hamad Fahad Al Dousri – Saudi
Amjad Qassem Al Tiraoui – Jordan
Qassem Saad Al Shamry – Saudi
Ayman Qassem Al Thahalbi – Saudi
Mohamed Ech-Chafihi El Idrissi – Moroccan

14 US Coalition Military Officers Captured by Syrian Special Forces in East Aleppo Bunker

Autonomous Cowherd

Gyalist wrote: »

Bashar Ja’afari, the Syrian ambassador to the U.N. yesterday officially confirmed the news that began circulating last Friday of the arrest of US-coalition military officers in East Aleppo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywBO6AMldM

Mutaz Kanoğlu – Turkey
David Scott Winer – USA
David Shlomo Aram – Israel
Muhamad Tamimi – Qatar
Muhamad Ahmad Assabian – Saudi
Abd-el-Menham Fahd al Harij – Saudi
Islam Salam Ezzahran Al Hajlan – Saudi
Ahmed Ben Naoufel Al Darij – Saudi
Muhamad Hassan Al Sabihi – Saudi
Hamad Fahad Al Dousri – Saudi
Amjad Qassem Al Tiraoui – Jordan
Qassem Saad Al Shamry – Saudi
Ayman Qassem Al Thahalbi – Saudi
Mohamed Ech-Chafihi El Idrissi – Moroccan

14 US Coalition Military Officers Captured by Syrian Special Forces in East Aleppo Bunker

I think the US operative is a Wiener not a Winer. US has been having trouble from Wieners of late....

jmayo

cameramonkey wrote: »

Who were they fighting? The Syria army, the Egyptian army, the Jordanian and assorted militias and also unarmed civilian. You can see how bad these armies are in that they cant even fight against Isis or the rag tag jihadists.

For most of those wars Israel had to fight on at least two fronts.
But for poor leadership the Syrians could have broken through into Northern Israel.
In 1967 the Israelis surprised the Egyptians after they had kicked out the UN and massed approx 100,000 troops and 1000 tanks in the Sinai Peninsula.
The Israelis had only 45,000 troops and 650 tanks.

Once the Israelis had destroyed much of the Egyptian air force, before doing the same with the Jordanians, Syrians and Iraqis it was up to the tanks.
The Israelis had to fight the Egyptians in the Sinai and Gaza, Jordanians in Jerusalem and the Syrians on the Golan Heights.

In the Golan Heights the Syrians had more than 265 artillery aimed down at Israel, and on the plateau itself Syria had constructed a dense network of fortifications, trenches and concrete bunkers with overlapping fields of fire, all sitting behind dense mine fields.
The Syrians forces in the Golan totaled over 40,000 troops with 260 tanks and self-propelled guns.
Some Israeli units suffered high casualties in taking the Golan Heights.

In 1973 they knew what was coming since Syrian build up in Golan, but Golda Meir decided not to carry out preemptive strike as she wanted world opinion on her side.
This was the same leader who decided that because the world was doing shag all to bring the ones behind the Munich Olympic massacre to justice that Mossad should just go take them out.

They were still slow on mobilisation because some believed after 67 that the Arabs would not go to war.

On the Golan Heights, approximately 180 Israeli tanks faced an onslaught of 1,400 Syrian tanks.
Along the Suez Canal, fewer than 500 Israeli defenders were attacked by 80,000 Egyptians.
BTW at least 9 Arab states were involved.
The Iraqis had moved a squadron of jets to Egypt.
And during the war, an Iraqi division of some 18,000 men and several hundred tanks was deployed in the central Golan and participated in the October 16 attack against Israeli positions.
Iraqi MiGs began operating over the Golan Heights as early as October 8, the third day of the war.
A Saudi brigade of approximately 3,000 troops was dispatched to Syria, where it participated in fighting along the approaches to Damascus

cameramonkey wrote: »

The Israeli army are not comparable to organized western armies, they would be routed by the Americans, the British or the big European powers. The Israelis couldn't even defeat a few thousand lightly armed Hezbollah fighters.

And the US could not defeat al-qeada, could not find Bin Ladin for years and lost to the Vietnamese.
Thus they are shyte as well. :rolleyes:

In a conventional battlefield the Americans would route anyone, that is a fecking given.
As for the rest, on Israel's home turf they would not find it easy.
The IDF is setup to defend Israel not fight in Alpine forests, jungles, or mountains.
A problem for the IDF is that they do not have career NCOs and officers except in more technical areas.
Almost everyone in the country is a part time soldier and expected to be able to fight.
That is an advantage in one way, but a hindrance to military discipline and long term procedures and cohesion in other ways because you have young leaders and not the lifers as in other armies.

And Hezbollah is a highly competent military force and probably one of the best put together in the Arab world.

cameramonkey wrote: »

He said "They(Israel) have had the best army, conscripts as well, in that neck of the woods for decades." So in those decades they have fought against many army armies. I was pointing out that those Arab armies are not very good, they may be good at keeping their own people in check but they are useless fighting against other military powers even ones that are not that competent like many of the Israeli units.

Hezbollah are well trained but they are lightly armed, they have no air defense against one of the best equipped air forces in the world, they had no heavy artillery, no heavy armored vehicles, no aircraft, no navy, in fact very little except anti-tank missiles, RPGs, unguided rockets and their own light weaponry. The Israelis were unprepared and not up to battling against even such a lightly armed group of no more than a few thousand.

I think the Israelis had underestimated Hezbollah and got caught out.
Another thing that does weaken the Israelis IDF is the willingness or lack of to take casualties.
Also at the start the guys captured were on last days of tour and may have not followed their normal border procedures meaning they wandered into area and ended up with Merkava tank destroyed.
Some of the Hezbollah bunkers go to depth of 40 metres into rocky hills and they had also constructed numerous decoy ones.
Nearly 600 separate ammunition and weapons bunkers were strategically placed in the region south of the Litani.
No single commander knew location of all bunkers and each unit only access to three bunkers.

During first 72 hours the IAF tried to take out the bunkers and leadership with very little success.
Hezbollah intelligence officials had built a significant signals-counterintelligence capability over the previous years. Throughout the war, Hezbollah commanders were able to predict when and where Israeli fighters and bombers would strike. Moreover, Hezbollah had identified key Israeli human-intelligence assets in Lebanon and arrested 16 spies.
On the other hand the intelligence that the IDF had was either incomplete or wrong.

jmayo

Gyalist wrote: »

Bashar Ja’afari, the Syrian ambassador to the U.N. yesterday officially confirmed the news that began circulating last Friday of the arrest of US-coalition military officers in East Aleppo.

Mutaz Kanoğlu – Turkey
David Scott Winer – USA
David Shlomo Aram – Israel
Muhamad Tamimi – Qatar
Muhamad Ahmad Assabian – Saudi
Abd-el-Menham Fahd al Harij – Saudi
Islam Salam Ezzahran Al Hajlan – Saudi
Ahmed Ben Naoufel Al Darij – Saudi
Muhamad Hassan Al Sabihi – Saudi
Hamad Fahad Al Dousri – Saudi
Amjad Qassem Al Tiraoui – Jordan
Qassem Saad Al Shamry – Saudi
Ayman Qassem Al Thahalbi – Saudi
Mohamed Ech-Chafihi El Idrissi – Moroccan

14 US Coalition Military Officers Captured by Syrian Special Forces in East Aleppo Bunker

I wonder how the Israeli got on with all his Arab brethren.

Hande hoche!

Gyalist wrote: »

Bashar Ja’afari, the Syrian ambassador to the U.N. yesterday officially confirmed the news that began circulating last Friday of the arrest of US-coalition military officers in East Aleppo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywBO6AMldM

Mutaz Kanoğlu – Turkey
David Scott Winer – USA
David Shlomo Aram – Israel
Muhamad Tamimi – Qatar
Muhamad Ahmad Assabian – Saudi
Abd-el-Menham Fahd al Harij – Saudi
Islam Salam Ezzahran Al Hajlan – Saudi
Ahmed Ben Naoufel Al Darij – Saudi
Muhamad Hassan Al Sabihi – Saudi
Hamad Fahad Al Dousri – Saudi
Amjad Qassem Al Tiraoui – Jordan
Qassem Saad Al Shamry – Saudi
Ayman Qassem Al Thahalbi – Saudi
Mohamed Ech-Chafihi El Idrissi – Moroccan

14 US Coalition Military Officers Captured by Syrian Special Forces in East Aleppo Bunker

Would be fairly skeptical. Then again 2016 has been a unusual year.

nacho libre

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Would be fairly skeptical. Then again 2016 has been a unusual year.

Why would you be skeptical? Anywhere, the west is supporting a faction in a war they will likely have military advisors/ intelligence operatives on the ground assisting their proxy. These guys probably couldn't be extracted safely, maybe that was part of the reason there was a ceasefire so late in the day

I see Egypt arrested people for staging fake videos that purported to be from Aleppo.

RobertKK

It is great the rebels are losing in Syria.

In rebel held areas of Syria, Christmas is banned as the rebels wants Sharia law, so Christianity is not palatable to them.
In Assad held areas, people are free to celebrate Christmas.

The western governments who support these rebels are against religious freedom and are supporting extremists.

RobertKK

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/russians-find-mass-graves-of-syrians-in-aleppo-defence-minister-says-35321238.html

The Russians "found mass graves of several dozens of Syrians who suffered atrocious torture and massacre," said ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov.

He said some of the bodies have been mutilated and some had gunshot wounds.
The Russian Air Force has helped Syrian president Bashar Assad to capture Syria's largest city after weeks of a siege. Russia has since dispatched military police to the city.

Maj Gen Konashenkov also criticised the opposition rebels, who controlled eastern Aleppo before they were pushed out earlier this month, for laying multiple booby traps and mines across town, endangering the civilian population.

It can be no surprise that the rebels left behind mass graves. Anyone who believes this 'moderates' argument about the rebels, are choosing to be gullible.

Gatling

Sure didn't they claim to have found mass graves in East Ukraine too

donaghs

Grayson wrote: »

Depends. People in the west seem to think that moderate muslims would massacre everyone else. If you want a good example of a similar situation then take a look at Lebanon. In Lebanon everyone went bat sh1t crazy. Most of the worst violence was committed by christian militias but no religious/ethic group was without blood on their hands.

The Sabra and Shantilla massacres are a good example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre


(Edit: I'd recommend reading Pity the Nation by Robert Fisk. The politics of the country make Northern Ireland or Game of thrones look simplistic)

Read Robert Fisk's journalism on this Syria war. Mostly in the UK Independent. He has few doubts about what the "rebels" are, and how they'd behave if they took power. He's consistently pointed out that the FSA aren't a coherent reality, and that Al Qaeda-linked groups dominate the non-ISIS rebels.

J Mysterio

donaghs wrote: »

Read Robert Fisk's journalism on this Syria war. Mostly in the UK Independent. He has few doubts about what the "rebels" are, and how they'd behave if they took power. He's consistently pointed out that the FSA aren't a coherent reality, and that Al Qaeda-linked groups dominate the non-ISIS rebels.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/aleppo-falls-to-syrian-regime-bashar-al-assad-rebels-uk-government-more-than-one-story-robert-fisk-a7471576.html

silverharp

Christmas celebrations in Aleppo , i'd imagine its important to them after what they have been through. what you take for granted eh!

Barry Badrinath

It hasnt finished for Aleppo. South west Aleppo is still in the midst of chaos. Especially since a new government offensive has opened up in Iblib province. Aleppo will be hammered also.

Its just out of the headlines because ISIS no longer holds the ground there..or anywhere really.