Rent increase for next year served this morning?

mrsWhippy

Hi there,

Our very shrewed landlord served us our lease and rent increase from sept '17 (by nearly 500 euro) this morning, in order to avoid the cap that is coming into effect soon.

Can he do this? I'm raging!

Thanks

CIARAN_BOYLE

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Hi there,

Our very shrewed landlord served us our lease and rent increase from sept '17 (by nearly 500 euro) this morning, in order to avoid the cap that is coming into effect soon.

Can he do this? I'm raging!

Thanks

well the residential tenancy bill 2016 has not yet been passed so no one is aware of its detailed provisions so feel free to wait and find out.

laserlad2010

afaik he may only serve you notice of a rent review on the day when the 2 year period is up (either from the last rent increase or the commencement of the lease). On that day he may give you 90 days notice. Anything earlier is invalid and should be ignored.

Thats what I've gleaned from lurking on this forum! I am open to correction.

DubCount

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Hi there,

Our very shrewed landlord served us our lease and rent increase from sept '17 (by nearly 500 euro) this morning, in order to avoid the cap that is coming into effect soon.

Can he do this? I'm raging!

Thanks

Contact the RTB for an opinion.

However, if the increase is ruled as invalid, you can expect the victory to be short lived. 500 gap between market rent and you current rent is a large financial incentive for the landlord to attempt to circumvent the new rules, even at a cost. What is stopping the LL taking back the property for a family member to stay in for a couple of months, renovating the property, and re-letting it at market rate? What is to stop the LL selling your property and buying another property in the same estate that he/she can charge 500 p.m. extra rent for? What is to stop the LL selling the property and investing in some other investment class ?

If you are lucky enough to stay in your current property at lower than market rent, be prepared for the LL to do nothing to improve the property or address any issues you have, because they will be only delighted to see you leave. Also, spare a thought for anyone who is looking to rent a property at the moment. I expect this move to increase short term rent inflation as new rental offers will attempt to get a higher and higher "base" rent on which to add subsequent 4% increases.

mrsWhippy

Am I right in saying though that we are protected at the moment and don't need to agree to or sign anything in advance of the 2 year gap since the last increase?

Ms Doubtfire1

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Am I right in saying though that we are protected at the moment and don't need to agree to or sign anything in advance of the 2 year gap since the last increase?

Thats correct. he can not raise your rent before the 2 year period is up - not a day before - not can he announce it.Further more he has to provide you with 3 examples not older than 3 month(I think it's 3 month) of comparable house in the area at the new price

Ms Doubtfire1

If you are lucky enough to stay in your current property at lower than market rent, be prepared for the LL to do nothing to improve the property or address any issues you have, because they will be only delighted to see you leave.  Also, spare a thought for anyone who is looking to rent a property at the moment.  I expect this move to increase short term rent inflation as new rental offers will attempt to get a higher and higher "base" rent on which to add subsequent 4% increases.

IN regards to this - you can actually MAKE the LL follow the law - if you have issues and he doesn't adress them you can pay for it yourself, and claim back through the tenancy board. Furthermore, would the issues be serious you can involve the council who will order the improvements and can issue fines if those orders are not followed.

Lux23

He's not such a shrewd landlord so. It galls me when so called "business people" can't be bothered to familiarise themselves with their legal obligations.

otwb1

When was your last increase? they can serve a minimum of 90 days notice of the rent change once two years are up.

mrsWhippy

otwb1 wrote: »

When was your last increase? they can serve a minimum of 90 days notice of the rent change once two years are up.

Sept '15

blue4ever

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Sept '15

Well, under current legislation he cant touch your rent until Sep 17 anyway, regardless of the proposed legislation.

So, as it stands only current legislation prevails, the rest is 'bark and bluster'.
You can politely write back and say that under the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015 (amendment section 20) that the rent is only reviewed after 24 months and not 12 as in the original act, therefore he cant touch the rent until Sep '17.
If you want to take issue - do it immediately under the current set of rules and ignore whats potentially coming down the line. Current legislation has you safeguarded (to a point).

Call me Al

blue4ever wrote: »

Well, under current legislation he cant touch your rent until Sep 17 anyway, regardless of the proposed legislation.

So, as it stands only current legislation prevails, the rest is 'bark and bluster'.
You can politely write back and say that under the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015 (amendment section 20) that the rent is only reviewed after 24 months and not 12 as in the original act, therefore he cant touch the rent until Sep '17.
If you want to take issue - do it immediately under the current set of rules and ignore whats potentially coming down the line. Current legislation has you safeguarded (to a point).

That's what he has done.. he's given Mrs whippy 9 months notice of a €500 increase w. e.f. 09/17.
So yes I think he is being extremely shrewd and trying to circumvent any new proposed 4% rent increase cap.

meeeeh

DubCount wrote: »

Contact the RTB for an opinion.

However, if the increase is ruled as invalid, you can expect the victory to be short lived. 500 gap between market rent and you current rent is a large financial incentive for the landlord to attempt to circumvent the new rules, even at a cost. What is stopping the LL taking back the property for a family member to stay in for a couple of months, renovating the property, and re-letting it at market rate? What is to stop the LL selling your property and buying another property in the same estate that he/she can charge 500 p.m. extra rent for? What is to stop the LL selling the property and investing in some other investment class ?

If you are lucky enough to stay in your current property at lower than market rent, be prepared for the LL to do nothing to improve the property or address any issues you have, because they will be only delighted to see you leave. Also, spare a thought for anyone who is looking to rent a property at the moment. I expect this move to increase short term rent inflation as new rental offers will attempt to get a higher and higher "base" rent on which to add subsequent 4% increases.

As far as I know the 4% (or 2%) rent increase is tied to the house not the renter. So getting someone out to getnew tenant in won't change a thing. At least that was a debate on Pat Kenny this morning.

mrsWhippy

meeeeh, if there was a big renovation on the property (which I know he is planning on doing eventually), would this allow a greater increase?

DubCount

mrsWhippy wrote: »

meeeeh, if there was a big renovation on the property (which I know he is planning on doing eventually), would this allow a greater increase?

Yes

meeeeh

mrsWhippy wrote: »

meeeeh, if there was a big renovation on the property (which I know he is planning on doing eventually), would this allow a greater increase?

I haven't got a clue, I am just repeating what I heard this morning.

axcel

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Hi there,

Our very shrewed landlord served us our lease and rent increase from sept '17 (by nearly 500 euro) this morning, in order to avoid the cap that is coming into effect soon.

Can he do this? I'm raging!

Thanks

Forget about the notice for a second, if legislation comes through which will be before this date then I'd think that the rent increase in September will be governed by new legislation, therefore restricted to 4%. First thing first make sure it's a valid notice as per prtb. If it's not, get him to send you one.. You'll then have 28 days from recipe of notice to go to prtb which should give enough time to see what the story will be with this legislation.

mrsWhippy

Lizcent wrote: »

First thing first make sure it's a valid notice as per prtb. If it's not, get him to send you one.. You'll then have 28 days from recipe of notice to go to prtb which should give enough time to see what the story will be with this legislation.

How can it be a valid notice though, if it's 9 months before the Sept '17 date?

murphaph

blue4ever wrote: »

Well, under current legislation he cant touch your rent until Sep 17 anyway, regardless of the proposed legislation.

So, as it stands only current legislation prevails, the rest is 'bark and bluster'.
You can politely write back and say that under the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015 (amendment section 20) that the rent is only reviewed after 24 months and not 12 as in the original act, therefore he cant touch the rent until Sep '17.
If you want to take issue - do it immediately under the current set of rules and ignore whats potentially coming down the line. Current legislation has you safeguarded (to a point).

If the OP is smart she will not write back at all except to confirm receipt of the letter (if expected/requested). Highlighting to the LL that the tenant is going to have a big problem with the situation next September may do nothing more that spur the LL into ending the tenancy asap, by fair or foul means. Don't make an issue out of this OP and see how things transpire over the coming months.

axcel

mrsWhippy wrote: »

How can it be a valid notice though, if it's 9 months before the Sept '17 date?

Date wise I don't know, this is a question for threshold. Seems to be a lot of confusion here wether it's served on the 2 year mark or minimum 90 days before the two years. I haven't seen any examples of over 90 days so cant comment myself. By valid notice I mean 3 comparable properties and warning that you can contact prtb within 28 days if any issue.
Just coming to mind now tho that I think 28 days doesn't come into it if it's not a valid notice so maybe you are better off waiting as you'll have no restriction re dates. Sorry that's probably confusing issues

irlcncrk

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Hi there,

Our very shrewed landlord served us our lease and rent increase from sept '17 (by nearly 500 euro) this morning, in order to avoid the cap that is coming into effect soon.

Can he do this? I'm raging!

Thanks

As legislation currently stands LLs can only increase rent every 24 months with a minimum review period of 90 days. I'm no legal eagle but that 90 days I believe are part of the 24 month period and not in addition too the 24 months.

There doesn't appear to be anywhere in the legislation that states the review period can't be longer than the 90 days but it strikes me as a little odd to have it so far out. They also must supply examples of other rentals in the area that are only 3 months old.

I'm sure you could take your case to the RTB and their arbitrator would probably say that examples should be within 3 months of the proposed new rental agreement date and not almost 12 months prior.

Did you ask why such an early rent review? How did LL serve notice? Did LL supply any local rental examples? Are you in full compliance with your existing lease eg fully paid rent, all utilities paid up, no noise complaints from neighbours etc then LL will have no genuine grounds to ask you to leave prior to the lease expiry. LL could take the "oh I'm selling" route or move in a family member but they'd loose more rent than they want you to pay as an increase. So unless LL isn't overly bright that won't happen.

I'd kick it into touch and simply say as its a lot of money you'll need to give it a lot of thought. If new legislation does come into affect for your area you'll be better off. If new legislation doesn't come into play do you're own research of the local rental market and negotiate with the LL "closer" to the lease expiry date.

As a caveat to all of the above: I'm a LL myself and I'm certainly not impressed by your LLs tactics. I would always be happy to negotiate with a good tenant rather than have them leave. Your LL has just upset a good tenant for something he may not get in almost 12 months time, what a fool!

Best of luck do let us know how you get on.

Yours an annoyed LL on you behalf.

murphaph

In fairness to that LL if the OP is really 500 below market rate then the LL is right to be very worried about being locked into this (plus the 4% per annum, or less if FF get their way) low rate for years to come.

Michael D Not Higgins

OP, the landlord cannot do this. Open a dispute with the RTB.

mrsWhippy

irlcncrk wrote: »

Did you ask why such an early rent review? How did LL serve notice? Did LL supply any local rental examples? Are you in full compliance with your existing lease eg fully paid rent, all utilities paid up, no noise complaints from neighbours etc then LL will have no genuine grounds to ask you to leave prior to the lease expiry. LL could take the "oh I'm selling" route or move in a family member but they'd loose more rent than they want you to pay as an increase. So unless LL isn't overly bright that won't happen.

I'm presuming he wanted to serve notice now so he wouldn't be restricted by the 4%.

He gave this to us as we were trying to bundle the kids out the door to school so didn't get the opportunity to discuss it with him.

We have been really good tenants never paying late, doing a lot of maintenance ourselves and he's said as much himself.

I just feel this is a really sly move on his part and not sure how to deal with it. I am inclined to say nothing, but certainly not sign anything either.

davindub

Good news is he has now carried out a review, an invalid one but he cannot review the rent again for 24 months. So you should be on the same rate until December 2018.

But appeal the notice to RTB immediately (RTB don't give advice, ask Threshold for advice if needed), its not something to negotiate with your LL about.

DaraDali

mrsWhippy wrote: »

I'm presuming he wanted to serve notice now so he wouldn't be restricted by the 4%.

He gave this to us as we were trying to bundle the kids out the door to school so didn't get the opportunity to discuss it with him.

We have been really good tenants never paying late, doing a lot of maintenance ourselves and he's said as much himself.

I just feel this is a really sly move on his part and not sure how to deal with it. I am inclined to say nothing, but certainly not sign anything either.

From what I've read he served you far too early to to make this a valid rent increase, I would reply with what has been mentioned earlier and go from there!

You are safe from any rent review/rent increase till Sept 2017

murphaph

DaraDali wrote: »

From what I've read he served you far too early to to make this a valid rent increase, I would reply with what has been mentioned earlier and go from there!

You are safe from any rent review/rent increase till Sept 2017

When rents will be even higher than now probably. Say nothing OP. We don't know what's going to happen with the upcoming legislation. You might look back in September and wish you'd quietly accepted this review!

CuLT

mrsWhippy wrote: »

Hi there,

Our very shrewed landlord served us our lease and rent increase from sept '17 (by nearly 500 euro) this morning, in order to avoid the cap that is coming into effect soon.

Can he do this? I'm raging!

Thanks

Just got the same thing, "I mailed you a rent review in September, you received that, right?" - mentioned as an aside in other communication.

The timing sure is interesting.

MicktheMan

OP, be careful here. The numbers are big enough for the LL to do a refurb on the house and charge top dollar rent. My advice would be to stop the rage, approach the LL and negotiate.

April 73

It's not a valid notice.

davindub

I wouldn't comply, its far too much of an increase.

Don't worry about the LL trying to get rid of you, appeal the current notice of rent increase and the LL will have a hard time justifying any action to remove you in the near future. The courts are on the tenants side and if it was as easy as that, a lot of landlords would be getting away with it, circumvent the 2 year rule by claiming to sell the house or refurb it. All you need to do to prevent this happening is to appeal it.