Killer Robots

Black Swan

It's Already Too Late - Elon Musk.

Midster

Hi there I could do with your open opinions on the subject of the new lgbtq+ education that is coming into schools, starting with children at single digit ages. What you think about it, good and bad, and how you feel about it, good/bad. Goto Topics, education, primary and pre school to find it

SlowBlowin

Midster wrote: »

Hi there I could do with your open opinions on the subject of the new lgbtq+ education that is coming into schools, starting with children at single digit ages. What you think about it, good and bad, and how you feel about it, good/bad. Goto Topics, education, primary and pre school to find it

Where does Killer robots come into this ?

Midster

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Where does Killer robots come into this ?

It doesn’t, not even a little bit, but I would be interested in your point of view on the issue.
There is more information on the thread I mentioned

Black Swan

Coming Soon to a Battlefield: Robots That Can Kill

Fathom

Midster wrote: »

Hi there I could do with your open opinions on the subject of the new lgbtq+ education that is coming into schools, starting with children at single digit ages. What you think about it, good and bad, and how you feel about it, good/bad. Goto Topics, education, primary and pre school to find it

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Where does Killer robots come into this ?

Midster wrote: »

It doesn’t, not even a little bit, but I would be interested in your point of view on the issue. There is more information on the thread I mentioned

MOD: Hi Midster. Your duplicate posts in 3 Popular Science threads, and also Politics was reported. It's spamming. Against the rules. If you have questions about this, don't post here. PM me.

Midster

Appreciated for telling me

Midster

Fathom wrote: »

MOD: Hi Midster. Your duplicate posts in 3 Popular Science threads, and also Politics was reported. It's spamming. Against the rules. If you have questions about this, don't post here. PM me.

Wait!! Hang on a sec, I’m spamming a thread that exists on boards, to other users on boards.ie

Pointing people towards what could potentially be a very important thread for people to be a part of.

Why aren’t the makers of boards.ie and there moderators encouraging this, surely advertising different threads created by members of boards.ie, on boards.ie, on different subjects that are just starting up and therefore don’t have a big audience yet on boards.ie, is something that would easily play to boards.ie’s advantage.

Maybe an apply for thread advertisement button would do the trick, so the makers could first look at it, decide if it’s worth advertising to other users so new threads can have there own chance to grow after they have been up for a while.

Just a thought

Fathom

Robot battles. All Japan Robot-Sumo Tournament.

Black Swan

George A. Bekey, Autonomous Robots: From Biological Inspiration to Implementation and Control. An introduction to the science and practice of autonomous robots that reviews over 300 current systems.

Fathom

Cool source. I raise you... Introduction to AI Robotics, Second Edition By Robin R. Murphy

Capt'n Midnight

Autonomous robots, we ain't nowhere near there yet.

Fathom

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Autonomous robots, we ain't nowhere near there yet.

Ground floor opportunities for R&D robotics jobs.

Black Swan

Makes me wonder what a future military populated by a great number of killer robots will look like?

Fathom

Robot Santa Claus was one of the main antagonists in Futurama.

Black Swan

If robots someday discover superintelligence (a hypothetical agent that possesses intelligence far surpassing that of the brightest and most gifted human minds), will they demand equality, or perhaps superiority, and if humans do not comply, rebel and become "killer robots?" A list of sci fi movies now preview in my mind.

Fathom

Black Swan wrote: »

If robots someday discover superintelligence (a hypothetical agent that possesses intelligence far surpassing that of the brightest and most gifted human minds), will they demand equality, or perhaps superiority, and if humans do not comply, rebel and become "killer robots?" A list of sci fi movies now preview in my mind.

The Terminator The Matrix Blade Runner Ex Machina The Day the Earth Stood Still 2001: A Space Odyssey The Machine Metropolis Interstellar I, Robot

Black Swan

7 of the Best Robotics Events Coming Up in 2020.

Capt'n Midnight

Black Swan wrote: »

If robots someday discover superintelligence (a hypothetical agent that possesses intelligence far surpassing that of the brightest and most gifted human minds), will they demand equality, or perhaps superiority, and if humans do not comply, rebel and become "killer robots?" A list of sci fi movies now preview in my mind.

Counter Example
In the Dune* universe there was the Butlerian Jihad which led to the outlawing of thinking machines.

AI's are stupid - https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50720823



* The originals by Frank Herbert were fantastic, ignore the later ones written by Pinky and the brain.

Fathom

Minecraft players vs AI. Now. Future kills?

Black Swan

Robotics Competition and Game Season 2020.

Fathom

TechCrunch Sessions: Robotics & AI is a single-day event that features in-depth interviews and networking opportunities with top robotics and AI technologists, founders, investors and researchers. March 3, 2020. University of California Berkeley.

Black Swan

Fathom wrote: »

TechCrunch Sessions: Robotics & AI is a single-day event that features in-depth interviews and networking opportunities with top robotics and AI technologists, founders, investors and researchers. March 3, 2020. University of California Berkeley.

That's a Tuesday. Might fly north to attend.

Fathom

Black Swan wrote: »

That's a Tuesday. Might fly north to attend.

I'd like to go too!

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/tesla_ai_tricked_85_mph/

A single piece of electrical tape stuck to a 35mph (56kph) road sign is enough to trick the autopilot software in Tesla's vehicles into speeding up to 85mph (136kph).

So the OCR failed.

Also a speed limit of 85mph doesn't exist there.
And things like roundabouts and traffic lights and crossings and built up areas can be used to infer likely limits. In the UK street light spacing indicates some 30mph zones.
And GPS maps have zones too.

Checks and balances ?

Fathom

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

. So the OCR failed.

There are several bot cars driving about our university streets the past couple of months.

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight

Fathom wrote: »

There are several bot cars driving about our university streets the past couple of months.

It's your civic duty to interfere with them.

Mirrors, magnets, moire. Laser pointers. Corner cube reflectors.

Random lines painted on the road in different colours.

Temporary speed limit signs. 10 mph. 1 mph. 0.0001 mph.

All white octagons and triangles. Stop and Yield signs are a unique shape so snow doesn't affect them.

A GÉILL SLÍ sign. Any Irish yellow diamond road sign.

Pedestrian crossing where it's physically impossible for there to be a crossing because of walls or bridge.


Diagonal mirrors at a crossroad so the vehicle always has to yield right of way to its reflection.

Loudspeakers making noises that would trigger a human. Like kids playing or a procession or a rushing wall of water.

Blues and twos from behind where a human would start looking for somewhere to pull over to let past.

Black Swan

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's your civic duty to interfere with them.

Ha! The Capt'n suggests action research participation by subjects.

Midster

One word graphene

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight

An AI startup stops. Because AI is a lot more difficult than cheap tricks.


'Supervised machine learning doesn’t live up to the hype. It isn’t C-3PO, it’s sophisticated pattern matching'

“Whenever someone says autonomy is ten years away that’s almost certainly what their thought is. There aren’t many startups that can survive ten years without shipping, which means that almost no current autonomous team will ever ship AI decision makers if this is the case,” he warned.

Smiles35

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

An AI startup stops. Because AI is a lot more difficult than cheap tricks.


'Supervised machine learning doesn’t live up to the hype. It isn’t C-3PO, it’s sophisticated pattern matching'

Gently nudging away investors. Then again, surely we are coming close to a company that will start producing robots for the home.

Fathom

Are the continued development and proliferation of lethal autonomous weapons inevitable?

Fathom

Smiles35 wrote: »

Gently nudging away investors. Then again, surely we are coming close to a company that will start producing robots for the home.

Watched old "Runaway" film. Reminded me of "robots for the home."

Capt'n Midnight

Fathom wrote: »

Are the continued development and proliferation of lethal autonomous weapons inevitable?

yes

UAV's means no pilots to risk. And no witnesses in the sky.

The F35 may even be the last major manned fighter program for the USAF

You can jam radio links but AI means no link.

Fathom

Sophia. Today. Tomorrow?

Fathom

Robot competitions.

Fathom

Killer Robots: Survey shows opposition remains strong (Feb 2, 2021).

Capt'n Midnight

Fathom wrote: »

Killer Robots: Survey shows opposition remains strong (Feb 2, 2021).

Notably, a majority opposed killer robots in five countries most active in the development and testing of weapons systems with decreasing levels of human control: Russia (58 percent), UK (56 percent), US (55 percent), China (53 percent) and Israel (53 percent).

Hmmm, not so sure I trust an article that doesn't mention the actual killer robots already deployed, the sentry guns facing north on the Korean border.

Fathom

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Hmmm, not so sure I trust an article that doesn't mention the actual killer robots already deployed, the sentry guns facing north on the Korean border.

Good point.

Capt'n Midnight

Killer Robots mean AI

Today's AI is just like 1960's AI. It's just database lookups, pattern matching and rules. The databases are way bigger now.

Garbage in , garbage out dates back to at least 1864.


Some comments on AI

It may be true that AI learns from every single case it sees, the problem is that you don't know what it learned, can't ask it and can't correct it. No doubt it will some times get the right answer, but that just makes it Accidental Intelligence.


...

Learns?

That's marketing speak. No AI is capable of learning at all. It's pattern recognition aided by human curated data and human initial labelling.

But indeed, you don't really know if it's matching (data comparisons) for what you intended or some other feature in the images. We see patterns, familiar objects in clouds, toast, flames in the fire, scattered stones. Because once we understand chair, we can decide to use a crate as a chair. A child that has eaten bread and sausages will assume a sausage-in-a-bun or a hot dog is edible. A two year old can do things easily that are impossible for AI.

It's called the AI paradox and it was known nearly 60 years ago.

Expert systems were the big thing in AI in the 1980s because they used text. The problem was capturing the expert. Faster cpus, bigger databases and more RAM simply made actually simpler so called image recognition possible. There is no recognition. Just matching.

It's all marketing. None use "machine learning" or "neural networks" as those don't mean what they mean outside of AI marketing.

Even machine translation has gone backwards. It now uses a brute force approach like a giant Rosetta stone and matching phrases and words.

Text to speech isn't much better than nearly 40 years ago and so called smart agents are just voice to text front ends using pattern matching to search engines and chat bots hardly better than Eliza or ALICE. Speech recognition has moved from being a program on your car radio, phone or PC to something creepy running on a 3rd party system, the so called cloud. That's a backward step in privacy and needs the Internet.

...
Anti-Tank Dog
Another serious training mistake was revealed later; the Soviets used their own diesel engine tanks to train the dogs rather than German tanks which had gasoline engines. As the dogs relied on their acute sense of smell, the dogs sought out familiar Soviet tanks instead of strange-smelling German tanks.

Fathom

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Killer Robots mean AI Today's AI is just like 1960's AI. It's just database lookups, pattern matching and rules. The databases are way bigger now.

Big data is the rage today. But not new. Demographers have been collecting and crunching it for decades.

smacl

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

No AI is capable of learning at all. It's pattern recognition aided by human curated data and human initial labelling.

I think that statement is quite a bit out of date at this point. Generative adversarial networks for example don't need much in the way of training data and are capable of learning new patterns. AIs at this point can create new patterns which in turn can be used to synthesise training for other AIs.

Capt'n Midnight

smacl wrote: »

I think that statement is quite a bit out of date at this point. Generative adversarial networks for example don't need much in the way of training data and are capable of learning new patterns. AIs at this point can create new patterns which in turn can be used to synthesise training for other AIs.

Garbage in , garbage out.

And that includes the coding and assumptions.

Stuff like this keeps happening.
https://www.theregister.com/2021/03/05/openai_writing_attack/

Computer recognition is the only thing protecting civilians from autonomous drones like the commercially available Prowler featured in the 1985 Chuck Norris film Code Of Silence. Dumb as brick. But it had mobility, thermal sensors and machine guns.

Capt'n Midnight

During WWII there was project about training pigeons. to guide bombs.

A pigeon in each compartment, trained by operant conditioning to recognise the target, would peck at it continually. Pecks to the centre of the screen caused the missile to fly straight, whilst off- centre pecks tilted the screen which would alter the missile’s course.

There's an apocryphal story story about training them.
They had a set of target photos and a set of photos without targets. Under different lighting.

And AI researchers are still making this basic mistake. Like the photos of fishermen holding tench. The AI learnt to recognise the most distinct feature - human fingers.

Fathom

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

During WWII there was project about training pigeons. to guide bombs.

Maybe try the Skinner pigeons that played ping pong? Keep your eye on the ball bird. :pac: Trained with an intermittent reinforcement schedule.

Capt'n Midnight

More AI garbage in garbage out .

https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/01/mit_ai_accuracy/

The error rates vary across the datasets. In ImageNet, the most popular dataset used to train models for object recognition, the rate creeps up to six per cent.

Fathom

Article suggests cleaning data; i.e., "pruning noisy data, counting with probabilistic thresholds to estimate noise..." What's new when prepping big data? Not sure The Register "labeled" the study correctly (excuse the pun) in its headlines. Took a quick look at abstract for Curtis G. Northcutt, Lu Jiang, Isaac L. Chuang (15 Feb 2021). Confident Learning: Estimating Uncertainty in Dataset Labels. Under Review by Journal of Artificial Intelligence Research. Perhaps I should go beyond the abstract? Then again, AI is not my area of research, so I would probably just stumble about.

Fathom

BattleBots season 6 in 2021?