Arlene Foster and the RHI scandal

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCMarkSimpson/status/818480087183953920

I was told he was seen in a cancer unit by someone well before Christmas.

He has heart issues.

Jayop

A Little Pony wrote: »

Perfect chance for him to do it now. And besides, nothing will change in an election anyway.

Really? I can see the DUP losing a significant amount of seats and SF possibly becoming the largest party. That's something.

Also, it will hopefully force Foster out and that will be good for NI politics.

munsterlegend

A Little Pony wrote: »

Who cares, the system is broken anyway, nothing gets done. It is probably the worst form of government in the Western world. I am not voting this time, they are all incompetent idiots.

I agree with you there. There are dinosaurs in every society but NI vote them into power. The problem is unionists do everything to denigrate anything nationalist/Irish and will never accept them as their equal.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCMarkSimpson/status/818480087183953920

I was told he was seen in a cancer unit by someone well before Christmas.

He has heart issues.

Heart issues can make you look like that?

Itssoeasy

I've just watched Martin mcguiness on RTÉ news. Christ I know he's had health issues recently but he looks shook.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Heart issues can make you look like that?

Do you get out much at all?
What kind of statement is that.
There is no secret about his illness or what it is.

rockatansky

It’s unfortunate that Martin McGuinness is quite seriously ill at a time when this has come to a head. He will be a big loss to Sinn Fein over the coming weeks. Here’s hoping he makes a speedy recovery!

Foster’s blind hatred is clearly clouding her judgement. The thoughts of Sinn Fein pulling the rug from under her political career must have her absolutely up the wall at the moment.

It’ll be Interesting how the DUP play this one out over the next few days. It may not end well for them but I can’t see it being any more than losing a few seats.

This may not end well for Sinn Fein either, they’ve backed themselves in to a bit of a corner over the past week or 2 and have given room for the SDLP and UUP to come out against them.

5 – 6 weeks is a life time in Northern Politics, especially during election time.

A Little Pony

rockatansky wrote: »

It’s unfortunate that Martin McGuinness is quite seriously ill at a time when this has come to a head. He will be a big loss to Sinn Fein over the coming weeks. Here’s hoping he makes a speedy recovery!

Foster’s blind hatred is clearly clouding her judgement. The thoughts of Sinn Fein pulling the rug from under her political career must have her absolutely up the wall at the moment.

It’ll be Interesting how the DUP play this one out over the next few days. It may not end well for them but I can’t see it being any more than losing a few seats.

This may not end well for Sinn Fein either, they’ve backed themselves in to a bit of a corner over the past week or 2 and have given room for the SDLP and UUP to come out against them.

5 – 6 weeks is a life time in Northern Politics, especially during election time.

Lets not get carried away. Settle down.

A Little Pony

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've just watched Martin mcguiness on RTÉ news. Christ I know he's had health issues recently but he looks shook.

Will be lucky to last the year.

Danzy

rockatansky wrote: »

Foster’s blind hatred is clearly clouding her judgement. The thoughts of Sinn Fein pulling the rug from under her political career must have her absolutely up the wall at the moment.

I think Foster's worry is that if she was not in charge it might end bad for her.

If there was an investigation like this hanging over one, can you not expect them to want to, ahh, manage it to ensure a just outcome might be a way to put it.

rockatansky

Danzy wrote: »

I think Foster's worry is that if she was not in charge it might end bad for her.

If there was an investigation like this hanging over one, can you not expect them to want to, ahh, manage it to ensure a just outcome might be a way to put it.

The party will need to move very quickly if they intend to put someone else in place. I can't see any other way it doesn't end badly for her.

It reminds me of Brian Cowens last stand, Martin had to move against him once he refused to budge.

Danzy

I'm sure that in the back rooms of the DUP there have been talks about who should replace Foster, if she needed to be told go.

Not a party blessed with talent.

Jayop

Danzy wrote: »

I'm sure that in the back rooms of the DUP there have been talks about who should replace Foster, if she needed to be told go.

Not a party blessed with talent.

More dinosaurs is all they have. Dodds, Wilson, Cambell all probably the front runners.

Terrontress

I guess Nigel Dodds would have to step up, although he's not an MLA at present so could he?

Simon Hamilton?



In all this trouble, I think the most effective opposition politician has been Naomi Long.

Danzy

I don't think Wilson would have the grassroots approval, he is a bit of a Belfast wideboy in their eyes, not a respectable type.

Campbell while he has the bitterness and poison to appeal to the party base, he does not have the ability to set it aside like Paisley and Robinson did I suspect. I'd like to see him get it as it may force a split in time to come, between the pragmatic and the obsessively hateful.

Dodds ............

rockatansky

First thought would be Nigel Dodds, but that would mean he'd have to give up his Westminster seat. Due to the whole uncertainty of it all he may chose to stay where he is. Maybe it's big Sammys time to shine!

Jayop

Or as is most likely now they'll stick with Foster and try to get her re-elected to prove that SF can't control them.

billy few mates

Gas to see the Shinners up the road calling for the resignation of the leader of a rival party in a political scandal when their own dear leader down here is up to his beard in one scandal after another, no double standards there at all....

Just saw McGuinness on the news tonight, he looks in a really bad way, my guess is that he's too ill to continue but rather than resign or retire the Shinners might as well use the occasion to pour some oil on the fire of the current DUP scandal with a grandiose gesture like this. Plus it also serves a useful smoke screen for dear leaders current spot of bother here in the south which just won't seem to go away.

FrancieBrady

billy few mates wrote: »

Gas to see the Shinners up the road calling for the resignation of the leader of a rival party in a political scandal when their own dear leader down here is up to his beard in one scandal after another, no double standards there at all....

Just saw McGuinness on the news tonight, he looks in a really bad way, my guess is that he's too ill to continue but rather than resign or retire the Shinners might as well use the occasion to pour some oil on the fire of the current DUP scandal with a grandiose gesture like this. Plus it also serves a useful smoke screen for dear leaders current spot of bother here in the south which just won't seem to go away.

Ahem SF want her to step aside. Her fellow unionists want her to resign.

Remind us what the current Gerry Ate My Hamster scandal is? I'm sure there is another one iminient.
Any comment on the subject of the thread would be nice too.

A Little Pony

billy few mates wrote: »

Gas to see the Shinners up the road calling for the resignation of the leader of a rival party in a political scandal when their own dear leader down here is up to his beard in one scandal after another, no double standards there at all....

Just saw McGuinness on the news tonight, he looks in a really bad way, my guess is that he's too ill to continue but rather than resign or retire the Shinners might as well use the occasion to pour some oil on the fire of the current DUP scandal with a grandiose gesture like this. Plus it also serves a useful smoke screen for dear leaders current spot of bother here in the south which just won't seem to go away.

This is the truth, Sinn Fein aren't fooling anyone with half a brain. The guy looks like he is dying, why don't they just say so, Sinn Fein don't resign over corruption or scandals as they enjoy that part of political life as much as the next party.

Christy42

A Little Pony wrote: »

This is the truth, Sinn Fein aren't fooling anyone with half a brain. The guy looks like he is dying, why don't they just say so, Sinn Fein don't resign over corruption or scandals as they enjoy that part of political life as much as the next party.

The right wing seem to be obsessed with opponents dying. Honestly it looks like a play to force an election. They know Foster has taken a hammering over this so why not milk it. Granted since when have people been elected in NI based on competency over religion/border politics.

I can only hope that both the dup and sinn Fein get wiped out by it as impossible as that may be.

billy few mates

The shinners were enjoying the fallout of RHI scandal with the unionists ripping each other asunder and decided it was a good time to make a move against them but with McGuinness clearly in no condition to fight an election they decided to bring forward his retirement and spin it into a resignation over the issue.
They may have scored an own goal though as this time yesterday we we talking Barbour the RHI/DUP scandal, today we're talking about Martin McGuinness's I'll health the the politically engineered ploy behind his retirement/resignation.

FrancieBrady

I think it is safe to say that for some obsessives this was always going to be about SF and somehow their fault.

However the reality is, when Martin retires after a long career the DUP are going to have to go to the people and answer for Arlenes suicidal Brexit gaffe and RHI not to mention the NAMA debacle.
The main damage to them will not be done by SF but by other unionists.

FrancieBrady

Jeffery Donaldson sets out his stall on Morning Ireland.
This is all going to be about 'Stopping a SF MLA becoming First Minister', nothing to do with issues.

FreudianSlippers

SF and DUP reps on Morning Ireland this morning... I personally believe SF has the higher ground here, but they went straight in on the personal attack talking point of calling everyone "arrogant"... I just don't see how this is SF's strategy both from their posters on here and in real life! It's trolling.

I mean - it totally worked this morning and the DUP representative went off the rails immediately; but it's not very mature politically.

I would have firmly supported SF in relation to their decision to withdraw, but they're not winning any support by acting like children.

FrancieBrady

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

SF and DUP reps on Morning Ireland this morning... I personally believe SF has the higher ground here, but they went straight in on the personal attack talking point of calling everyone "arrogant"... I just don't see how this is SF's strategy both from their posters on here and in real life! It's trolling.

I mean - it totally worked this morning and the DUP representative went off the rails immediately; but it's not very mature politically.

I would have firmly supported SF in relation to their decision to withdraw, but they're not winning any support by acting like children.

In fairness, the first words out of Jeffery sounded like we were back in the 70's.

The problem with the DUP is arrogance. Arrogance about their past and arrogance about their so called fiscal rectitude etc when there are allegations flying around about fingers being caught in a number of very lucrative tills.

They are going to be called on it and rightly so in my opinion. It is blocking any progress in the GFA and government.

FreudianSlippers

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In fairness, the first words out of Jeffery sounded like we were back in the 70's.

The problem with the DUP is arrogance. Arrogance about their past and arrogance about their so called fiscal rectitude etc when there are allegations flying around about fingers being caught in a number of very lucrative tills.

They are going to be called on it and rightly so in my opinion. It is blocking any progress in the GFA and government.

Look, I'm not saying he came across well at all - SF just needs to learn how to be more clinical in their strikes. To the average Southerner (arguably not fully clued in on all the goings on up North), I thought SF came across poorly this morning when yesterday evening I was fully supporting them.

FrancieBrady

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Look, I'm not saying he came across well at all - SF just needs to learn how to be more clinical in their strikes. To the average Southerner (arguably not fully clued in on all the goings on up North), I thought SF came across poorly this morning when yesterday evening I was fully supporting them.

Political and religious 'arrogance' is the problem though.
I prefer politicians who call things as they see them myself.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think it is safe to say that for some obsessives this was always going to be about SF and somehow their fault.

However the reality is, when Martin retires after a long career the DUP are going to have to go to the people and answer for Arlenes suicidal Brexit gaffe and RHI not to mention the NAMA debacle.
The main damage to them will not be done by SF but by other unionists.

The DUP will still remain the largest party. I don't see Sinn Fein making up enough ground for that change, in such a short period of time.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jeffery Donaldson sets out his stall on Morning Ireland.
This is all going to be about 'Stopping a SF MLA becoming First Minister', nothing to do with issues.

And it hasn't been that since, gosh, 2007!? The system does not work, it needs changed.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

The DUP will still remain the largest party. I don't see Sinn Fein making up enough ground for that change, in such a short period of time.

For what change?

I said they will be damaged by other unionists. All the UUP will want here is to chip away another bit at the DUP vote and to stoke some internal fighting in the DUP.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The DUP will still remain the largest party. I don't see Sinn Fein making up enough ground for that change, in such a short period of time.

For what change?

I said they will be damaged by other unionists. All the UUP will want here is to chip away another bit at the DUP vote and to stoke some internal fighting in the DUP.

DUP won 38 seats in 2016, UUP won 16. How many are the UUP going to take off the DUP? The DUP would need an absolute collapse!

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

DUP won 38 seats in 2016, UUP won 16. How many are the UUP going to take off the DUP? The DUP would need an absolute collapse!

Which bit of 'chip away another bit' are you having bother with there?

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

DUP won 38 seats in 2016, UUP won 16. How many are the UUP going to take off the DUP? The DUP would need an absolute collapse!

Which bit of 'chip away another bit' are you having bother with there?

Sinn Fein can't possibly ever lose any seats then.

FreudianSlippers

A Little Pony wrote: »

DUP won 38 seats in 2016, UUP won 16. How many are the UUP going to take off the DUP? The DUP would need an absolute collapse!

Based on the last election, I'd say UUP could contest max. 4 additional seats from DUP: E. Antrim, S. Antrim, Strangford and Lagan Valley.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein can't possibly ever lose any seats then.

Who said that now?

Jayop

DUP now have 37 to SFs 28. Should SF be able to add a few themselves and the UUP or TUV take a few from the DUP then that gap could close pretty quickly.

FrancieBrady

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Based on the last election, I'd say UUP could contest max. 4 additional seats from DUP: E. Antrim, S. Antrim, Strangford and Lagan Valley.

It will be interesting to see if they can close the gaps elsewhere. I would imagine the UUP are very buoyant about their prospects.

A Little Pony

Jayop wrote: »

DUP now have 37 to SFs 28. Should SF be able to add a few themselves and the UUP or TUV take a few from the DUP then that gap could close pretty quickly.

Depends who Sinn Fein would put forward as potential First Minister. If it isn't a terrorist, then maybe the Unionist community might be swayed to the UUP a bit more.

Danzy

I think the question for the next assembly and the 2 Governments is to look at joint authority as the default option when the Assembly is not running.

Parties like the DUP will never tolerate a fenian around the place, no matter the background. Look at how they treated the SDLP.

The only certainty is that through not wanting to make things work they will ensure a worse deal from their point of view in a few years time.

FrancieBrady

Danzy wrote: »

I think the question for the next assembly and the 2 Governments is to look at joint authority as the default option when the Assembly is not running.

Parties like the DUP will never tolerate a fenian around the place, no matter the background. Look at how they treated the SDLP.

The only certainty is that through not wanting to make things work they will ensure a worse deal from their point of view in a few years time.

The two governments need to get tough here, they need to call out the footdraggers and those playing the sectarian card to thwart progress.

midnight city

It will be interesting to see how the DUP and Sinn Fein can work together after this. Sinn Fein must have thought long and hard about pulling out. I'd guess they have felt that way for a quite some time. Perhaps even before Foster became first minister. As things stand at the min, they are just part of the NI government and year after year the people are becoming more settled in a British Northern Ireland. Maybe they calculate if direct rule comes back and a hard brexit happens that may open people more to a United Ireland. Or at least get the nationalist people thinking about it again.

Seth Brundle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The two governments need to get tough here, they need to call out the footdraggers and those playing the sectarian card to thwart progress.

What about the misogyny card?

CrabRevolution

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think it is safe to say that for some obsessives this was always going to be about SF and somehow their fault.

However the reality is, when Martin retires after a long career the DUP are going to have to go to the people and answer for Arlenes suicidal Brexit gaffe and RHI not to mention the NAMA debacle.
The main damage to them will not be done by SF but by other unionists.

This always stuck out for me too. I've a healthy disdain for all politicians so have no allegiance to Sinn Féin or any party, but there's a huge double standard even from the media in the Republic.

When Sinn Féin do anything wrong they're criticised for it.
When the DUP do something, Sinn Féin are accused of "not holding them to account" or of "dancing to the DUPs tune".

If Sinn Féin promote anything vaguely culturally Irish (like the language) it's "sectarian politics which alienates unionists".
If the DUP support the orange order, promote creationism and oppose gay rights, it's "not what I agree with, but are delivering for their voters".

FrancieBrady

kbannon wrote: »

What about the misogyny card?

Well, that was so embarrassing I wouldn't ask an adult to deal with it.

I'd just ask adults to judge it themselves.

Terrontress

Has there not been some element of electoral reform which is reducing the number of MLAs in most constituencies by one? Or reducing the number of constituencies overall?
The big question might be which parties lose the fewest rather than which can gain the most.

Zubeneschamali

Terrontress wrote: »

Has there not been some element of electoral reform which is reducing the number of MLAs in most constituencies by one? Or reducing the number of constituencies overall?
The big question might be which parties lose the fewest rather than which can gain the most.

Yes, the number of MLAs is going down by 18, and the smaller parties, UUP and SDLP, are the most likely to suffer.

SF and the DUP likely to gain (in relative terms).

A Little Pony

CrabRevolution wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think it is safe to say that for some obsessives this was always going to be about SF and somehow their fault.

However the reality is, when Martin retires after a long career the DUP are going to have to go to the people and answer for Arlenes suicidal Brexit gaffe and RHI not to mention the NAMA debacle.
The main damage to them will not be done by SF but by other unionists.

This always stuck out for me too. I've a healthy disdain for all politicians so have no allegiance to Sinn Féin or any party, but there's a huge double standard even from the media in the Republic.  

When Sinn Féin do anything wrong they're criticised for it.
When the DUP do something, Sinn Féin are accused of "not holding them to account" or of "dancing to the DUPs tune".

If Sinn Féin promote anything vaguely culturally Irish (like the language) it's "sectarian politics which alienates unionists".
If the DUP support the orange order, promote creationism and oppose gay rights, it's "not what I agree with, but are delivering for their voters".

Orange Order has wide spread support within Unionism. Many of them are in the Orange Order. The DUP plays to that core base, if they didn't  win, they wouldn't win elections.

CrabRevolution

A Little Pony wrote: »

Orange Order has wide spread support within Unionism. Many of them are in the Orange Order. The DUP plays to that core base, if they didn't win, they wouldn't win elections.

And the creationism? Opposing gay rights?

Jayop

CrabRevolution wrote: »

And the creationism? Opposing gay rights?

Again, widespread support among unionists sadly.