Farmers Profits Should Be Tax Free

Roadhawk

L.Jenkins wrote: »

It might help farmers with small farms (below a certain acreage and livestock/milk production level), if they received a reduced tax rate for a set period of time to mitigate against lower prices at certain times of the year. For example, you might have lower yields of tillage during the winter, because farmers didn't get to turn it in time to dry it or remove it from the land.

If you are to reduce taxes for farmers because a product is seasonal then surely we must also reduce taxes for the same in other industries. Thats like saying that new car dealerships should have reduced tax rates in December because most people are waiting for January to make a purchase...nonsense.

NovemberJersey

Graham wrote: »

I thought you were profitable?

Sorry I'm mixed up now, I never said I wasn't?

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Sorry I'm mixed up now

It does appear that way

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I never said I wasn't?

Which brings us full circle back to my original response:

The fact that you can make profits when prices are bad kind of nullifies your argument.

Everything else is just moaning to be honest.

pilly

This guy is definitely a troll lads, spouting this rubbish about farming being tax free and the backbone of the country on all sorts of threads but shows very little knowledge of the business at all.

Roadhawk

pilly wrote: »

...spouting this rubbish about farming being tax free and the backbone of the country...but shows very little knowledge of the business at all.

Sounds like most farmers I have come across.

nhunter100

NovemberJersey wrote:

Ya that's it when you don't agree with what someone else says that makes them a ****ing troll, sit yourself down and think about it for 2 minutes how dependent the west is on farming or maybe someone with a lot of patience could explain it to u

Tourism is more important to the West, as for trolling do you think people only read one thread on boards? I've seen other bs by you along a similar vain. Considering some of the responses on your other thread you recieved calling you out as a troll is quite polite tbh.

NovemberJersey

I've commented on 4 threads including this one, one was about Kerry group shares, the other I explored the possibility of setting my farm up as a company and the last one was a more general thread about taxation where I was frequently abused when I mentioned I get the SFP grant. Maybe I've worded this wrong but I think there should be tax breaks for farmers to encourage more output and reward hard work and if getting rid of all the grants to all sorts of farmers is the cost of such tax breaks then so be it. My farm does make a lot of profit but I reinvest most of it = the local community benefitting because they're obviously the ones I'm hiring and buying stuff off of… "the farm assist" money is a disgrace imo

nhunter100

NovemberJersey wrote:

I've commented on 4 threads including this one, one was about Kerry group shares, the other I explored the possibility of setting my farm up as a company and the last one was a more general thread about taxation where I was frequently abused when I mentioned I get the SFP grant. Maybe I've worded this wrong but I think there should be tax breaks for farmers to encourage more output and reward hard work and if getting rid of all the grants to all sorts of farmers is the cost of such tax breaks then so be it. My farm does make a lot of profit but I reinvest most of it = the local community benefitting because they're obviously the ones I'm hiring and buying stuff off of… "the farm assist" money is a disgrace imo

You recieved abuse due to your condescending and trolling ( but i think you knew that already)comments not because of the SFP. Do you think you are the only person on this site with a farming background ( that is taking you at your word that you are a farmer). Anyhoo I've fed you enough, :-)

pilly

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I've commented on 4 threads including this one, one was about Kerry group shares, the other I explored the possibility of setting my farm up as a company and the last one was a more general thread about taxation where I was frequently abused when I mentioned I get the SFP grant. Maybe I've worded this wrong but I think there should be tax breaks for farmers to encourage more output and reward hard work and if getting rid of all the grants to all sorts of farmers is the cost of such tax breaks then so be it. My farm does make a lot of profit but I reinvest most of it = the local community benefitting because they're obviously the ones I'm hiring and buying stuff off of… "the farm assist" money is a disgrace imo

If you are indeed a farmer then you're doing the farming trade no favours by continuing to spout this ****e. Seriously, reward hard work by reducing taxation? Do you really think farmers work harder than anyone else in the country? There's lads working 80-90 hours per week on minimum wage to keep their heads above water and they pay their fair share of taxes. Everyone has to pay. Tough luck.

And do away with all the grants and reduce taxes? If that actually worked in farmers favour they'd have been campaigning for it for years.

Either you're a troll or you don't know how to add.

Roadhawk

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I've commented on 4 threads including this one, one was about Kerry group shares, the other I explored the possibility of setting my farm up as a company and the last one was a more general thread about taxation where I was frequently abused when I mentioned I get the SFP grant. Maybe I've worded this wrong but I think there should be tax breaks for farmers to encourage more output and reward hard work and if getting rid of all the grants to all sorts of farmers is the cost of such tax breaks then so be it. My farm does make a lot of profit but I reinvest most of it = the local community benefitting because they're obviously the ones I'm hiring and buying stuff off of… "the farm assist" money is a disgrace imo

Im sure you have heard the expression "stop digging" or "put the shovel down"...

NovemberJersey

pilly wrote: »

If you are indeed a farmer then you're doing the farming trade no favours by continuing to spout this ****e. Seriously, reward hard work by reducing taxation? Do you really think farmers work harder than anyone else in the country? There's lads working 80-90 hours per week on minimum wage to keep their heads above water and they pay their fair share of taxes. Everyone has to pay. Tough luck.

And do away with all the grants and reduce taxes? If that actually worked in farmers favour they'd have been campaigning for it for years.

Either you're a troll or you don't know how to add.

Hold your horses and calm down. For starters the people in minimum wage jobs can walk out of their job in the evening and not be awake at night worrying about it like how a farmer does, someone in teagsc said to me a while back that a lot of farmers would be a lot better off if they got jobs in the likes of dunnes stores. Beef & tillage farming are total lossmakers, it's not that you don't make enough money to live off it you don't even make enough money to break even. And finally the farm grants benefit small farmers in general rather than the bigger ones and I think it's a waste of money subsidising them. The land is the natural resource of our country and its being swindled by a lot of farmers who don't have to farm it properly because of the free money they get

NovemberJersey

OSI wrote: »

So why don't they? Why don't they sell it to the farming commercial geniuses such as yourself and take up a cushy minimum wage retail job they can "walk out of any time they want"?

Because of the stigma that's goes with selling land, you don't have to be from a farming background to know all about that. And I never said they can walk out any time they want, I just pointed out that they wouldn't be up at night stressing over their job like a farmer would. A moderator shouldn't take up such a tone, your not being fair quoting things I haven't even said.

NovemberJersey

Graham wrote: »

:rolleyes:

It's as if the posts are getting more absurd to try and provoke responses.

Literally none of what I said is absurd?

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Literally none of what I said is absurd?

If you're as you say. A successful, profitable farmer what on earth are you whining about?

Just get on with it. If you're unhappy with your lot, do something about it.

NovemberJersey

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I remember looking at the numbers are while ago and every euro spent by the former department of enterprise trade and employment generated a multiple of jobs compared to what was spent by the department of agriculture.

Be careful what you wish for OP, you could get a tax break but would you say trade your SFP for it.

Tbh I would trade the SFP for it because I think looking at the bigger the SFP isn't that beneficial to farming. The SFP is based on how much a given farm was producing back in the early 2000's which is mad if you think about it, a farmer need only keep a few donkeys on his farm to keep a certain stocking rate to now still receive the SFP even though he might be contributing basically nothing to farming on a yearly basis

Mooooo

Definitely trolling here trying to drum up and anti farming response. We are treated as sole traders same as many other businesses unless those that have opted for the company route. If you are making profit this year you have no problems. Income averaging is available for those that want to balance out the good and bad years. We are now even more exposed to global markets so peaks and troughs will be the order of the day with many believing the peaks of the past are unlikely to be seen.

NovemberJersey

Graham wrote: »

If you're as you say. A successful, profitable farmer what on earth are you whining about?

Just get on with it. If you're unhappy with your lot, do something about it.

We're having a debate my friend, nobody is whining, you don't have to read the posts on this thread if they're this upsetting to you even though of course your free to do so. I forget who it was but one person on this thread said tourism is more important to the west than farming, imagine what would happen if we closed down every hotel in the west and now imagine if we closed down every farm

NovemberJersey

Mooooo wrote: »

Definitely trolling here trying to drum up and anti farming response. We are treated as sole traders same as many other businesses unless those that have opted for the company route. If you are making profit this year you have no problems. Income averaging is available for those that want to balance out the good and bad years. We are now even more exposed to global markets so peaks and troughs will be the order of the day with many believing the peaks of the past are unlikely to be seen.

That's your opinion but I think it's hysteria to insist dairying won't see the profits of 2014 again… when times are bad people get out of farming, when times are good people rush in and then we have too much produce for a while so things go bad for a while and people get out of it (that certain type of farming is what I mean when i say it) and on the cycle goes. As times goes on though I think there's going to be so few farmers left that those of us who are going to stay at it for the long haul will do well, look at the milk prices paid across the EU, we get one of the worst but I'd presume that's to do with there being so many dairy farmers in this country

And I forgot to mention, income averaging is a total disaster especially in a bad year like this one?? And it's difficult to take money out of a company afterwards unless your of a certain age which there's tax breaks for

chickendinner

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Hold your horses and calm down. For starters the people in minimum wage jobs can walk out of their job in the evening and not be awake at night worrying about it like how a farmer does, someone in teagsc said to me a while back that a lot of farmers would be a lot better off if they got jobs in the likes of dunnes stores.

Every business owner in the country has the same worries, also
if you think someone who is trying to pay a mortgage and raise a family can just quit their min wage job without a care in the world, I would have to question your mental capabilities.

NovemberJersey wrote: »

And finally the farm grants benefit small farmers in general rather than the bigger ones and I think it's a waste of money subsidising them. The land is the natural resource of our country and its being swindled by a lot of farmers who don't have to farm it properly because of the free money they get

Where are you getting this info about grants only benefiting smaller farms,
see below


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/living-off-the-fat-of-the-land-irelands-richest-farmers-35063062.html

NovemberJersey

chickendinner wrote: »

Every business owner in the country has the same worries, also
if you think someone who is trying to pay a mortgage and raise a family can just quit their min wage job without a care in the world, I would have to question your mental capabilities.




Where are you getting this info about grants only benefiting smaller farms,
see below


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/living-off-the-fat-of-the-land-irelands-richest-farmers-35063062.html

It's very offensive even for boards to talk about people's mental capabilities. Do you think that farmers who have these farms that can't make a profit don't have mortgages or children to educate? That stuff is a given. The small farmers get a disproportionately large amount of the grants, I know what I'm talking about. I get €47k of a grant and I'd be perfectly willing to get rid of them for tax breaks. your link won't open for me

I saw your link just there, the top 20 farmers out of thousands of us is a fair representation now is it?? To have that size of a grant they'd of have to of had gigantic farms and been extremely wealthy anyway

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Do you think that farmers who have these farms that can't make a profit don't have mortgages or children to educate? That stuff is a given.

but you'd happily take the grants and land off those farmers?

Very odd.

NovemberJersey

Graham wrote: »

but you'd happily take the grants and land off those farmers?

Very odd.

"The the grants and land"

Take the grants yes

But I'd buy the land if they wanted to sell it at the price they'd ask if I could afford it.

You knew exactly what I meant and I'm not responding to you anymore

And we'd all be losing the grants so it would only be fair, I'd be losing my grant of €47k

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

"The the grants and land"

Take the grants yes

But I'd buy the land if they wanted to sell it at the price they'd ask if I could afford it.

You knew exactly what I meant and I'm not responding to you anymore

And we'd all be losing the grants so it would only be fair, I'd be losing my grant of €47k

How would it be fair, it would disproportionately hurt the very farmers you were sobbing about a couple of posts ago.

It's an odd approach playing the victim for a 3rd party.

Mooooo

NovemberJersey wrote: »

That's your opinion but I think it's hysteria to insist dairying won't see the profits of 2014 again… when times are bad people get out of farming, when times are good people rush in and then we have too much produce for a while so things go bad for a while and people get out of it (that certain type of farming is what I mean when i say it) and on the cycle goes. As times goes on though I think there's going to be so few farmers left that those of us who are going to stay at it for the long haul will do well, look at the milk prices paid across the EU, we get one of the worst but I'd presume that's to do with there being so many dairy farmers in this country

And I forgot to mention, income averaging is a total disaster especially in a bad year like this one?? And it's difficult to take money out of a company afterwards unless your of a certain age which there's tax breaks for

It may or may not nobody can tell to many influences on price. Main reason we are bottom of price in Europe is because 90 odd percent of our product is exported and a lot in powder form whereas European farmers have much bigger liquid and fresh markets which put a floor under theor prices. Any excess they have goes in to powder markets and lowers our price more than theirs.
Everyone has to pay tax if they make a profit. It's either allow different ways of payment or averaging out. Can't complain about paying tax as everyone else does. Would be a much worse situation if you weren't making the profit in the first place

Topgear on Dave

Your telling me people on min wage have it easy?

You have probably inherited a business with a couple of hundred thousand worth of assets even if it is a small farm.

You could sell it tomorrow and chill out for a few years before going out to work.

Most minimum wage folks dont have these options.

Numbers Guy

NovemberJersey wrote: »

My way of lookin at it is that due to bad prices and all the hard work we've to go through our profits should be made tax free. Farming is the backbone of the country, every business here in the west is totally dependent on farming and with the way things are going there won't be many farmers left after a couple more years and the domino effect will be huge. I think it's particularly disgrace that the government take half of my EU grant the single farm payment off me every year in taxes, that money is meant to be for me.

How do ye think we could implement this and which government party would most likely do it? I was think FG since they've always been good to us

It's rare a post in this section here racks up 5 pages of replys in a few hours.

I guess it's testament to how ridiculous the OPs comments were.

.....I am profitable but I work hard so shouldn't taxed.....

feargale

NovemberJersey wrote: »

My farm is profitable enough but I employ so many people I shouldn't have to pay any taxes

Indeed no - the employees should pay all the tax as PAYE workers did in this country for generations, while others earning multiples of their wages were able to dodge tax by evasion or ultragenerous legal avoidance measures. If it's so bad did you ever think of handing the whole shebang over to your employees? You could then become their employee, problem solved! You should look at the parents of young people who got free third level education and those who didn't. See how relatively well-off people were able to manipulate figures. Ask your employees about it. Like everybody else, you pay tax if you make money. You pay no tax if you make no money, full stop.

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Even the hardware stores would be closed down over night if it wasn't for farming, welders would be gone, builders main work is farm buildings work so they'd all be gone to oz, the list is endless

Yes, and alot of butchers, bakers and candlestick makers would close down if it weren't for hotels and others involved in the tourist industry. Maybe tourism should be tax-free too. As Moore McDowell said, we could have the most successful aircraft manufacturing industry in the world if it were tax-free.

You should get yourself a copy of the Constitution - Article 40: "All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law."

chickendinner

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I saw your link just there, the top 20 farmers out of thousands of us is a fair representation now is it?? To have that size of a grant they'd of have to of had gigantic farms and been extremely wealthy anyway

Let me get this correct, you have no problem with extremely rich farmers getting the huge grants who dont need them, but want to take grants from the smaller farms,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/living-off-the-fat-of-the-land-irelands-richest-farmers-35063062.html

I think some small farmer has a field you want to buy, and you seen him going to the pub on saturday when you went to work, he is getting a grant and has no reason to sell his field and this has pissed you off, and suddenly medium sized farms are getting ****ed which just happens to be the size of your farm.

Also your suggestion of farmers in 2016 creating the economy (especially keeping the building industry afloat) is one of the funniest things I have ever heard, so thank you for that.

I do feel sorry for you if you are genuine, as you seem bitter, I have great respect for hard working people of any industry, being a hard working dishwasher to a scaffolder to a tax consultant, It is unseemly to suggest no one works as hard as your industry or is as important.
I think you need to relax and be happy for what you have and plan for the future where EU subsidies will no longer be given, and your wish of no small farms in the country will come to fruition

NovemberJersey

I did word what I said badly, tax breaks are a must though

NovemberJersey

chickendinner wrote: »

Let me get this correct, you have no problem with extremely rich farmers getting the huge grants who dont need them, but want to take grants from the smaller farms,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/living-off-the-fat-of-the-land-irelands-richest-farmers-35063062.html

I think some small farmer has a field you want to buy, and you seen him going to the pub on saturday when you went to work, he is getting a grant and has no reason to sell his field and this has pissed you off, and suddenly medium sized farms are getting ****ed which just happens to be the size of your farm.

Also your suggestion of farmers in 2016 creating the economy (especially keeping the building industry afloat) is one of the funniest things I have ever heard, so thank you for that.

I do feel sorry for you if you are genuine, as you seem bitter, I have great respect for hard working people of any industry, being a hard working dishwasher to a scaffolder to a tax consultant, It is unseemly to suggest no one works as hard as your industry or is as important.
I think you need to relax and be happy for what you have and plan for the future where EU subsidies will no longer be given, and your wish of no small farms in the country will come to fruition

I didn't bother reading all of what you said but I'm gonna correct where you misquoted me at the start, I think all these grants should be gotten rid of, it would be for everyone's own good in the long run

And I have a big farm but with the current tax system you don't have much use for a big farm!