Farmers Profits Should Be Tax Free

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Do you think that farmers who have these farms that can't make a profit don't have mortgages or children to educate? That stuff is a given.

but you'd happily take the grants and land off those farmers?

Very odd.

NovemberJersey

Graham wrote: »

but you'd happily take the grants and land off those farmers?

Very odd.

"The the grants and land"

Take the grants yes

But I'd buy the land if they wanted to sell it at the price they'd ask if I could afford it.

You knew exactly what I meant and I'm not responding to you anymore

And we'd all be losing the grants so it would only be fair, I'd be losing my grant of €47k

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

"The the grants and land"

Take the grants yes

But I'd buy the land if they wanted to sell it at the price they'd ask if I could afford it.

You knew exactly what I meant and I'm not responding to you anymore

And we'd all be losing the grants so it would only be fair, I'd be losing my grant of €47k

How would it be fair, it would disproportionately hurt the very farmers you were sobbing about a couple of posts ago.

It's an odd approach playing the victim for a 3rd party.

Mooooo

NovemberJersey wrote: »

That's your opinion but I think it's hysteria to insist dairying won't see the profits of 2014 again… when times are bad people get out of farming, when times are good people rush in and then we have too much produce for a while so things go bad for a while and people get out of it (that certain type of farming is what I mean when i say it) and on the cycle goes. As times goes on though I think there's going to be so few farmers left that those of us who are going to stay at it for the long haul will do well, look at the milk prices paid across the EU, we get one of the worst but I'd presume that's to do with there being so many dairy farmers in this country

And I forgot to mention, income averaging is a total disaster especially in a bad year like this one?? And it's difficult to take money out of a company afterwards unless your of a certain age which there's tax breaks for

It may or may not nobody can tell to many influences on price. Main reason we are bottom of price in Europe is because 90 odd percent of our product is exported and a lot in powder form whereas European farmers have much bigger liquid and fresh markets which put a floor under theor prices. Any excess they have goes in to powder markets and lowers our price more than theirs.
Everyone has to pay tax if they make a profit. It's either allow different ways of payment or averaging out. Can't complain about paying tax as everyone else does. Would be a much worse situation if you weren't making the profit in the first place

Your telling me people on min wage have it easy?

You have probably inherited a business with a couple of hundred thousand worth of assets even if it is a small farm.

You could sell it tomorrow and chill out for a few years before going out to work.

Most minimum wage folks dont have these options.

Numbers Guy

NovemberJersey wrote: »

My way of lookin at it is that due to bad prices and all the hard work we've to go through our profits should be made tax free. Farming is the backbone of the country, every business here in the west is totally dependent on farming and with the way things are going there won't be many farmers left after a couple more years and the domino effect will be huge. I think it's particularly disgrace that the government take half of my EU grant the single farm payment off me every year in taxes, that money is meant to be for me.

How do ye think we could implement this and which government party would most likely do it? I was think FG since they've always been good to us

It's rare a post in this section here racks up 5 pages of replys in a few hours.

I guess it's testament to how ridiculous the OPs comments were.

.....I am profitable but I work hard so shouldn't taxed.....

feargale

NovemberJersey wrote: »

My farm is profitable enough but I employ so many people I shouldn't have to pay any taxes

Indeed no - the employees should pay all the tax as PAYE workers did in this country for generations, while others earning multiples of their wages were able to dodge tax by evasion or ultragenerous legal avoidance measures. If it's so bad did you ever think of handing the whole shebang over to your employees? You could then become their employee, problem solved! You should look at the parents of young people who got free third level education and those who didn't. See how relatively well-off people were able to manipulate figures. Ask your employees about it. Like everybody else, you pay tax if you make money. You pay no tax if you make no money, full stop.

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Even the hardware stores would be closed down over night if it wasn't for farming, welders would be gone, builders main work is farm buildings work so they'd all be gone to oz, the list is endless

Yes, and alot of butchers, bakers and candlestick makers would close down if it weren't for hotels and others involved in the tourist industry. Maybe tourism should be tax-free too. As Moore McDowell said, we could have the most successful aircraft manufacturing industry in the world if it were tax-free.

You should get yourself a copy of the Constitution - Article 40: "All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law."

chickendinner

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I saw your link just there, the top 20 farmers out of thousands of us is a fair representation now is it?? To have that size of a grant they'd of have to of had gigantic farms and been extremely wealthy anyway

Let me get this correct, you have no problem with extremely rich farmers getting the huge grants who dont need them, but want to take grants from the smaller farms,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/living-off-the-fat-of-the-land-irelands-richest-farmers-35063062.html

I think some small farmer has a field you want to buy, and you seen him going to the pub on saturday when you went to work, he is getting a grant and has no reason to sell his field and this has pissed you off, and suddenly medium sized farms are getting ****ed which just happens to be the size of your farm.

Also your suggestion of farmers in 2016 creating the economy (especially keeping the building industry afloat) is one of the funniest things I have ever heard, so thank you for that.

I do feel sorry for you if you are genuine, as you seem bitter, I have great respect for hard working people of any industry, being a hard working dishwasher to a scaffolder to a tax consultant, It is unseemly to suggest no one works as hard as your industry or is as important.
I think you need to relax and be happy for what you have and plan for the future where EU subsidies will no longer be given, and your wish of no small farms in the country will come to fruition

NovemberJersey

I did word what I said badly, tax breaks are a must though

NovemberJersey

chickendinner wrote: »

Let me get this correct, you have no problem with extremely rich farmers getting the huge grants who dont need them, but want to take grants from the smaller farms,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/living-off-the-fat-of-the-land-irelands-richest-farmers-35063062.html

I think some small farmer has a field you want to buy, and you seen him going to the pub on saturday when you went to work, he is getting a grant and has no reason to sell his field and this has pissed you off, and suddenly medium sized farms are getting ****ed which just happens to be the size of your farm.

Also your suggestion of farmers in 2016 creating the economy (especially keeping the building industry afloat) is one of the funniest things I have ever heard, so thank you for that.

I do feel sorry for you if you are genuine, as you seem bitter, I have great respect for hard working people of any industry, being a hard working dishwasher to a scaffolder to a tax consultant, It is unseemly to suggest no one works as hard as your industry or is as important.
I think you need to relax and be happy for what you have and plan for the future where EU subsidies will no longer be given, and your wish of no small farms in the country will come to fruition

I didn't bother reading all of what you said but I'm gonna correct where you misquoted me at the start, I think all these grants should be gotten rid of, it would be for everyone's own good in the long run

And I have a big farm but with the current tax system you don't have much use for a big farm!

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

tax breaks are a must though

Why, you said you were profitable even now while prices are poor.

JeffKenna

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Count Kerry needs farming in the same way that a car needs petrol, nothing happens otherwise.

Do you seriously expect us to believe that a) you're currently farming and b) you're from Kerry??!!

NovemberJersey

JeffKenna wrote: »

Do you seriously expect us to believe that a) you're currently farming and b) you're from Kerry??!!

Read my previous posts on my profile before you make accusations

_Brian

I'm from a farming background and involved near all my life.

Farming doesn't need special tax treatment.

Agriculture needs a dedicated price regulator to ensure the profits on agricultural produce is fairly being distributed within the supply chain. Currently a small number have a tight grip on the industry and because of their clout and connections it's impossible to change without help.

Farmers are price takers and have no leverage on the processors they supply.

A regulator would ensure that a proper fair profit was left within the farm gate and once the industry was functioning properly farmers would happily pay tax.

Looking for tax breaks is fighting the wrong problem.

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Read my previous posts on my profile before you make accusations

I think it's your previous posts that are leading to the conclusions.

chickendinner

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I didn't bother reading all of what you said but I'm gonna correct where you misquoted me at the start, I think all these grants should be gotten rid of, it would be for everyone's own good in the long run

Do you honestly know what will happen if subsidies are gotten rid of even in Ireland?

There will be 20 big farms in Ireland going overdrive rushing prices to the bottom, you will be out of business within 3 years along with ever other farmer.

NovemberJersey

chickendinner wrote: »

Do you honestly know what will happen if subsidies are gotten rid of even in Ireland?

There will be 20 big farms in Ireland going overdrive rushing prices to the bottom, you will be out of business within 3 years along with ever other farmer.

are you always like this? Those farms subsidies are based on the food they were producing back in 2001 about, a lot of them don't commercially farm any longer because of the massive grants they get… your so obnoxious, you clearly don't have any idea what your talking about but you seem genuinely certain that you do

NovemberJersey

Graham wrote: »

I think it's your previous posts that are leading to the conclusions.

6,500 posts you've made since 2001, we'll draw our own conclusions

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

are you always like this? Those farms subsidies are based on the food they were producing back in 2001 about, a lot of them don't commercially farm any longer because of the massive grants they get… your so obnoxious, you clearly don't have any idea what your talking about but you seem genuinely certain that you do

Didn't you say earlier something about the smaller farms being driven out of business by the removal of the grants?

Isn't that exactly what chickendinner also suggested?

NovemberJersey

Graham wrote: »

Didn't you say earlier something about the smaller farms being driven out of business by the removal of the grants?

Isn't that exactly what chickendinner also suggested?

He said none of us would be left except for the 20 on the highest paid list, a very intelligent remark by him

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

we'll draw our own conclusions

Are there multiples of you or have you been elected to speak on behalf of a group?

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

He said none of us would be left except for the 20 on the highest paid list, a very intelligent remark by him

There was no mention of highest paid:

chickendinner wrote: »

There will be 20 big farms

Water John

Think this should be in a diff Forum; After Hours. S**t stirring.

chickendinner

NovemberJersey wrote: »

are you always like this? Those farms subsidies are based on the food they were producing back in 2001 about, a lot of them don't commercially farm any longer because of the massive grants they get… your so obnoxious, you clearly don't have any idea what your talking about but you seem genuinely certain that you do

you are shortsighted by your own selfishness, Oh I shouldnt pay any taxes,:pac:

Haha, you think them big business are gonna let them fields be barren, they are gonna hire some minimum wage person like yourself, who is now out of a job
to run it,
Dont be all sad about it though as you will get a great night sleep with no worries in the world and those poor owners will have restless legs of constant worry

NovemberJersey

Graham wrote: »

Are there multiples of you or have you been elected to speak on behalf of a group?

You've got 6,500 posts on this website, clearly you sit down by your computer all day annoying people on boards, as annoyin as you are I do pity you. Everything I've said for the last few hours you've replied straight instantly. You've no idea what your talking about and you even at one stage questioned if I was profitable because I'd to pay so much tax, do you realise how stupid of a statement that was? I'd say your a massive success story with the amount of spare time you've got to make 6,500 posts on boards, would you ever go away you creep

I was hoping for a debate about taxation but no, nobody here could have a civil discussion because you can't stop butting in with your nauseatingly idiotic remarks.

NovemberJersey

chickendinner wrote: »

you are shortsighted by your own selfishness, Oh I shouldnt pay any taxes,:pac:

Haha, you think them big business are gonna let them fields be barren, they are gonna hire some minimum wage person like yourself, who is now out of a job
to run it,
Dont be all sad about it though as you will get a great night sleep with no worries in the world and those poor owners will have restless legs of constant worry

my farm is 3 times bigger than average and with the amount of land I could buy with SFP gone I'd be much bigger again, it's worth €2,500,000… why should I become a minimum wage worker? I've a couple of ye working for me… your so bitter over me having a big business and you don't even know me, what's wrong with you?

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

You've got 6,500 posts on this website, clearly you sit down by your computer all day annoying people on boards, as annoyin as you are I do pity you. Everything I've said for the last few hours you've replied straight instantly. You've no idea what your talking about and you even at one stage questioned if I was profitable because I'd to pay so much tax, do you realise how stupid of a statement that was? I'd say your a massive success story with the amount of spare time you've got to make 6,500 posts on boards, would you ever go away you creep

Look, I understand you're finding it difficult to make a coherent argument for your proposed tax breaks for profitable farmers with big farms. It's apparently a tough sell, even to other farmers.

You're not doing yourself any favours by personally attacking anyone that disagrees with you.

rangler1

NovemberJersey wrote: »

my farm is 3 times bigger than average and with the amount of land I could buy with SFP gone I'd be much bigger again, it's worth €2,500,000… why should I become a minimum wage worker? I've a couple of ye working for me… your so bitter over me having a big business and you don't even know me, what's wrong with you?

Most farms like the one you're discussing are in a company and are only paying minimal tax anyway, I'd imagine the workers are paying more tax than the farmer

mrawkward

Interesting that OP never responed to post#17!!

Wanderer78

due to equality and fairness, and going by this thread, 'all workers' should have tax free earnings. job done

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

my farm is 3 times bigger than average and with the amount of land I could buy with SFP gone I'd be much bigger again, it's worth €2,500,000… why should I become a minimum wage worker? I've a couple of ye working for me… your so bitter over me having a big business and you don't even know me, what's wrong with you?

Let me see if I have this right.

You're suggesting that if you removed the subsidy/grant from all farms it would cripple the smaller farms to the point where you could buy their land and triple the size of your operation. You'd also like tax-breaks to increase the profitability of swallowing your smaller neighbours.

Wanderer78

Graham wrote: »

Let me see if I have this right.

You're suggesting that if you removed the subsidy/grant from all farms it would cripple the smaller farms to the point where you could buy their land and triple the size of your operation. You'd also like tax-breaks to increase the profitability of swallowing your smaller neighbours.

corporate-farming!

endacl

Graham wrote: »

Are there multiples of you or have you been elected to speak on behalf of a group?

And did ye all vote Healy Rae?

jimmii

Wanderer78 wrote: »

due to equality and fairness, and going by this thread, 'all workers' should have tax free earnings. job done

And to pay us back for a lifetime of tax the government should have to pay us the same rate as which we would have paid. This thread is genius I think we could be on to something!

Its amazing how just in the last couple of days someone was saying there hadn't been a good discussion thread in here for a while then this gem pops up!

NovemberJersey

rangler1 wrote: »

Most farms like the one you're discussing are in a company and are only paying minimal tax anyway, I'd imagine the workers are paying more tax than the farmer

No we're not mostly in companies at this size, if you go back to my first posts on boards you'll see me pondering setting one up though… it's hard to extract money from the company afterwards unless your of a certain age (55+) which tax breaks allow for

hannible the cannible

NovemberJersey wrote: »

my farm is 3 times bigger than average and with the amount of land I could buy with SFP gone I'd be much bigger again, it's worth €2,500,000… why should I become a minimum wage worker? I've a couple of ye working for me… your so bitter over me having a big business and you don't even know me, what's wrong with you?

Fair play to you , but I'd imagine it's easy farm the land you have , would you should sell it and come up to the boggy land of North clare where 40 acres would be a good holding and 10 acres without rushes would be considered the meadow , where farmers have built houses and reared families and put kids through school with 20 sucklers and who without the sfp would be living in council estates and the heavy land they farm turned into green carpets of forestry

I doubt you would , I think you'd starve within a few weeks of coming here , you'd wonder how these people live at all in places like this with they're small farms and small cattle , where the short horn and massey 35 do just fine without simpletons like you watching out for them

Mind your own small green patch of this little country , at the end of the day you've only life use of it , try and enjoy it and stop worrying about things you have no control over , you've no boast over something you've got for nothing only the fortune to be born a hard working farmers son

NovemberJersey

jimmii wrote: »

And to pay us back for a lifetime of tax the government should have to pay us the same rate as which we would have paid. This thread is genius I think we could be on to something!

Its amazing how just in the last couple of days someone was saying there hadn't been a good discussion thread in here for a while then this gem pops up!

Ya I think tax should be lower for everyone, reward the working, it's only logical

FixitFelix

NovemberJersey wrote: »

My way of lookin at it is that due to bad prices and all the hard work we've to go through our profits should be made tax free. Farming is the backbone of the country, every business here in the west is totally dependent on farming and with the way things are going there won't be many farmers left after a couple more years and the domino effect will be huge. I think it's particularly disgrace that the government take half of my EU grant the single farm payment off me every year in taxes, that money is meant to be for me.

How do ye think we could implement this and which government party would most likely do it? I was think FG since they've always been good to us

Haha this is hilarious

The smell of self entitlement is incredible

mrawkward

NovemberJersey wrote: »

No we're not mostly in companies at this size, if you go back to my first posts on boards you'll see me pondering setting one up though… it's hard to extract money from the company afterwards unless your of a certain age (55+) which tax breaks allow for

Bread ...butter...side

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Ya I think tax should be lower for everyone, reward the working, it's only logical

how should we shaft then?

mrawkward

Wanderer78 wrote: »

how should we shaft then?

Landlords!!

NovemberJersey

hannible the cannible wrote: »

Fair play to you , but I'd imagine it's easy farm the land you have , would you should sell it and come up to the boggy land of North clare where 40 acres would be a good holding and 10 acres without rushes would be considered the meadow , where farmers have built houses and reared families and put kids through school with 20 sucklers and who without the sfp would be living in council estates and the heavy land they farm turned into green carpets of forestry

I doubt you would , I think you'd starve within a few weeks of coming here , you'd wonder how these people live at all in places like this with they're small farms and small cattle , where the short horn and massey 35 do just fine without simpletons like you watching out for them

Mind your own small green patch of this little country , at the end of the day you've only life use of it , try and enjoy it and stop worrying about things you have no control over , you've no boast over something you've got for nothing only the fortune to be born a hard working farmers son

It's over for those farmers, they deserve a lot of credit for getting by with what they had but times have moved on and please don't take offence to that… look at all the small grocery shops that were in every town and village 30 years ago, now they've all been replaced in each town by a big supermarket, those small shops had nobody to subsidise them as should be the case with farming… its capitalism

Wanderer78

mrawkward wrote: »

Landlords!!

i ll go one more, the 'rentier' class;)

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

It's over for those farmers, they deserve a lot of credit for getting by with what they had but times have moved on and please don't take offence to that… look at all the small grocery shops that were in every town and village 30 years ago, now they've all been replaced in each town by a big supermarket, those small shops had nobody to subsidise them as should be the case with farming… its capitalism

ah dont worry, that utopia will collapse eventually in a blaze of err emm 'glory'

rangler1

NovemberJersey wrote: »

No we're not mostly in companies at this size, if you go back to my first posts on boards you'll see me pondering setting one up though… it's hard to extract money from the company afterwards unless your of a certain age (55+) which tax breaks allow for

If you had the income you're claiming to have, you'd have formed a company by now,
Everyone has to pay tax, all tax is paid with money generated originally in the private sector, so when you hear about water, etc, being paid for out of taxes, you know who's getting loaded

mrawkward

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i ll go one more, the 'rentier' class;)

did you mean RANTier class, perchance?

NovemberJersey

rangler1 wrote: »

If you had the income you're claiming to have, you'd have formed a company by now,
Everyone has to pay tax, all tax is paid with money generated originally in the private sector, so when you hear about water, etc, being paid for out of taxes, you know who's getting loaded

Look pal I haven't formed a company yet and I probably will form one eventually but at the moment it doesn't suit me… with my children at their age my family needs about €60k a year, for the last €26k of that €60k I'd be paying the higher income tax rate but I'd have to corporation tax first on that money and then I'd be paying the higher tax bracket when I'd take it out of the company, is that okay with you?

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Look pal I haven't formed a company yet and I probably will form one eventually but at the moment it doesn't suit me… with my children at their age my family needs about €60k a year, for the last €26k of that €60k I'd be paying the higher income tax rate but I'd have to corporation tax first on that money and then I'd be paying the higher tax bracket when I'd take it out of the company, is that okay with you?

keep a close eye on developments of corporation tax within the eu, as it looks like its on the way up

JeffKenna

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Look pal I haven't formed a company yet and I probably will form one eventually but at the moment it doesn't suit me… with my children at their age my family needs about €60k a year, for the last €26k of that €60k I'd be paying the higher income tax rate but I'd have to corporation tax first on that money and then I'd be paying the higher tax bracket when I'd take it out of the company, is that okay with you?

Are you married?

mrawkward

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Look pal I haven't formed a company yet and I probably will form one eventually but at the moment it doesn't suit me… with my children at their age my family needs about €60k a year, for the last €26k of that €60k I'd be paying the higher income tax rate but I'd have to corporation tax first on that money and then I'd be paying the higher tax bracket when I'd take it out of the company, is that okay with you?

Welcome to the real world of open ecomomy. Get up to speed on CGT and inheritance tax too... you are clearly clueless on tax planning.. best advice you will get today fella! and free too!