Farmers Profits Should Be Tax Free

mrawkward

Wanderer78 wrote: »

how should we shaft then?

Landlords!!

NovemberJersey

hannible the cannible wrote: »

Fair play to you , but I'd imagine it's easy farm the land you have , would you should sell it and come up to the boggy land of North clare where 40 acres would be a good holding and 10 acres without rushes would be considered the meadow , where farmers have built houses and reared families and put kids through school with 20 sucklers and who without the sfp would be living in council estates and the heavy land they farm turned into green carpets of forestry

I doubt you would , I think you'd starve within a few weeks of coming here , you'd wonder how these people live at all in places like this with they're small farms and small cattle , where the short horn and massey 35 do just fine without simpletons like you watching out for them

Mind your own small green patch of this little country , at the end of the day you've only life use of it , try and enjoy it and stop worrying about things you have no control over , you've no boast over something you've got for nothing only the fortune to be born a hard working farmers son

It's over for those farmers, they deserve a lot of credit for getting by with what they had but times have moved on and please don't take offence to that… look at all the small grocery shops that were in every town and village 30 years ago, now they've all been replaced in each town by a big supermarket, those small shops had nobody to subsidise them as should be the case with farming… its capitalism

Wanderer78

mrawkward wrote: »

Landlords!!

i ll go one more, the 'rentier' class;)

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

It's over for those farmers, they deserve a lot of credit for getting by with what they had but times have moved on and please don't take offence to that… look at all the small grocery shops that were in every town and village 30 years ago, now they've all been replaced in each town by a big supermarket, those small shops had nobody to subsidise them as should be the case with farming… its capitalism

ah dont worry, that utopia will collapse eventually in a blaze of err emm 'glory'

rangler1

NovemberJersey wrote: »

No we're not mostly in companies at this size, if you go back to my first posts on boards you'll see me pondering setting one up though… it's hard to extract money from the company afterwards unless your of a certain age (55+) which tax breaks allow for

If you had the income you're claiming to have, you'd have formed a company by now,
Everyone has to pay tax, all tax is paid with money generated originally in the private sector, so when you hear about water, etc, being paid for out of taxes, you know who's getting loaded

mrawkward

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i ll go one more, the 'rentier' class;)

did you mean RANTier class, perchance?

NovemberJersey

rangler1 wrote: »

If you had the income you're claiming to have, you'd have formed a company by now,
Everyone has to pay tax, all tax is paid with money generated originally in the private sector, so when you hear about water, etc, being paid for out of taxes, you know who's getting loaded

Look pal I haven't formed a company yet and I probably will form one eventually but at the moment it doesn't suit me… with my children at their age my family needs about €60k a year, for the last €26k of that €60k I'd be paying the higher income tax rate but I'd have to corporation tax first on that money and then I'd be paying the higher tax bracket when I'd take it out of the company, is that okay with you?

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Look pal I haven't formed a company yet and I probably will form one eventually but at the moment it doesn't suit me… with my children at their age my family needs about €60k a year, for the last €26k of that €60k I'd be paying the higher income tax rate but I'd have to corporation tax first on that money and then I'd be paying the higher tax bracket when I'd take it out of the company, is that okay with you?

keep a close eye on developments of corporation tax within the eu, as it looks like its on the way up

JeffKenna

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Look pal I haven't formed a company yet and I probably will form one eventually but at the moment it doesn't suit me… with my children at their age my family needs about €60k a year, for the last €26k of that €60k I'd be paying the higher income tax rate but I'd have to corporation tax first on that money and then I'd be paying the higher tax bracket when I'd take it out of the company, is that okay with you?

Are you married?

mrawkward

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Look pal I haven't formed a company yet and I probably will form one eventually but at the moment it doesn't suit me… with my children at their age my family needs about €60k a year, for the last €26k of that €60k I'd be paying the higher income tax rate but I'd have to corporation tax first on that money and then I'd be paying the higher tax bracket when I'd take it out of the company, is that okay with you?

Welcome to the real world of open ecomomy. Get up to speed on CGT and inheritance tax too... you are clearly clueless on tax planning.. best advice you will get today fella! and free too!

NovemberJersey

Wanderer78 wrote: »

keep a close eye on developments of corporation tax within the eu, as it looks like its on the way up

What do you think it'll go up to? Sure the likes of apple only pay a fraction of the 12.5% that they're suppose to pay lol

mrawkward

NovemberJersey wrote: »

What do you think it'll go up to? Sure the likes of apple only pay a fraction of the 12.5% that they're suppose to pay lol

That is like comparing apples and cow sh*te!

NovemberJersey

mrawkward wrote: »

Welcome to the real world of open ecomomy. Get up to speed on CGT and inheritance tax too... you are clearly clueless on tax planning.. best advice you will get today fella! and free too!

I have the misfortune of knowing too much about CGT at the moment haha! You probably heard something about it in the newspapers, Kerry group suppliers getting a bad doing at the moment over it!

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

What do you think it'll go up to? Sure the likes of apple only pay a fraction of the 12.5% that they're suppose to pay lol

rumours of about 20%. apparently most corporations are paying around 11% now due to the closure of the double irish

rangler1

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Look pal I haven't formed a company yet and I probably will form one eventually but at the moment it doesn't suit me… with my children at their age my family needs about €60k a year, for the last €26k of that €60k I'd be paying the higher income tax rate but I'd have to corporation tax first on that money and then I'd be paying the higher tax bracket when I'd take it out of the company, is that okay with you?

So you're paying the high rate of tax on the rest of your farm profit as well instead of 12% if you were a company, I'm just pointing out that businesses have good tax breaks if they avail of them and plenty are....you chose not to

NovemberJersey

Wanderer78 wrote: »

rumours of about 20%. apparently most corporations are paying around 11% now due to the closure of the double irish

Ya I was thinking 20% is what it would go up to, a lot of people with family run businesses would find it hard to go down the company route if it was risen to 20%

NovemberJersey

rangler1 wrote: »

So you're paying the high rate of tax on the rest of your farm profit as well instead of 12% if you were a company, I'm just pointing out that businesses have good tax breaks if they avail of them and plenty are....you chose not to

Yeah but the money that I'd pay 12.5% on I wouldn't be able to spend on meeting my living expenses, I'd have to pay my usual income tax rate on that then if you get me?

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Ya I was thinking 20% is what it would go up to, a lot of people with family run businesses would find it hard to go down the company route if it was risen to 20%

oh dont worry, it could very well be a total disaster for ireland in its entirety, only thing we can do now is to sit back and watch our politicians make it much worse

mrawkward

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I have the misfortune of knowing too much about CGT at the moment haha! You probably heard something about it in the newspapers, Kerry group suppliers getting a bad doing at the moment over it!

I guess it will be a great comfort to you to know that we are all really broken up about your misfortune. However some of us have a hope that some day we may again be liable for the same tax!!

Calhoun

Would go the other way actually, tax farmers more like inherticance on big land holdings and get rid of the recent budgets fair deal scheme on nursing home care.

Sick of propping up so called poor mouth moaners who should have been allowed go to the wall years ago.

Wanderer78

Calhoun wrote: »

Would go the other way actually, tax farmers more like inherticance on big land holfings and get rid of the recent budgets fair deal scheme on nursing home care.

Sick of propping up so called poor mouth moaners who should have been allowed go to the wall years ago.

i like this land tax idea, even though i dont particularly understand it very well, not to shaft farmers, but it sounds like it could shake up our land use and tax issues

NovemberJersey

Ya I know someone who's touted this land tax for years, it would become a case of "use it or lose it"! I think the government wouldn't bring it in though because the backlash they'd fear, people would be comparing it to the rates as they used be known as that we had to pay the British on the land

mrawkward

proper businesses pay rates, why not farm enterprises, especially profitable ones?

Calhoun

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Ya I know someone who's touted this land tax for years, it would become a case of "use it or lose it"! I think the government wouldn't bring it in though because the backlash they'd fear, people would be comparing it to the rates as they used be known as that we had to pay the British on the land

The general public have to pay rates now so I don't see why farmers should not.

NovemberJersey

Ya exactly all shops and businesses in towns have to pay rates so I think it would be 100% fair for farmers to pay rates on their businesses too. With these rates introduced and the grants gotten rid of the farming sector would be whipped into shape. Our natural resource is being squandered by a lot of farmers and they're being completely enabled by all the free money that gets thrown at them… as a whole there would be more food getting produced and there would be more jobs for everyone

b0gg3r

I have to say, that was a very entertaining read.

Accusations of him being a troll though I think are unfounded.

While he's clearly not a small farmer, he's certainly not a large-scale professional one. I don't know about ye, but the farmers I have dealings with do have the "woe is me" attitude that this guy has perfected.

@OP
You say yourself that you have a profitable farm, despite poor prices. Why then are you not investing in making your farm more efficient rather than just looking for tax breaks? You acknowledge that small farmers have little realistic chance of being a successful business, and yet spurn the idea of fewer, larger companies who can run large farms efficiently.

You want a tax break and yet you are in receipt of SFP. Would you be profitable without this grant? If so I think you should reconsider your position on how much money the gubberment is taking from you.

b0gg3r

140,000 farms in Ireland.

80% have income less than €20,000, of which 51% is the SFP (on average).

Hardly the "backbone of the economy".

Source: The Farming Sector in Ireland: A Profile from Revenue Data

Wanderer78

b0gg3r wrote: »

140,000 farms in Ireland.

80% have income less than €20,000, of which 51% is the SFP (on average).

Hardly the "backbone of the economy".

Source: The Farming Sector in Ireland: A Profile from Revenue Data

is it small businesses are employing the bulk of the workforce?

zdragon

NovemberJersey wrote: »

My farm is profitable enough but I employ so many people I shouldn't have to pay any taxes

more than 6000 employee?

Stealthfins

I think they should measure all the land a farmer owns and tax them accordingly like property tax.

Work hard give me a break, I know a guy in west Clare who gets nearly 35,000 a year for forestry,another guy outside Ennis who gets nearly 600 a week tax free from renting his inheritance, he'd hardly scratch his arse.

Both guys enjoy a pint and are having a good life