Farmers Profits Should Be Tax Free

Graham

JeffKenna wrote: »

Don't forget the land tax.

I missed that, there's another double digit percent drop in the price per acre.

Mooooo

ED E wrote: »

Really taxes for famers should be more than average. They tend to live on said farms where every service is 10x more expensive to provide.

How about this NovemberJersey. You move to a town and commute to work every day, society will give you a tax break and still save money.

What service is provided? I assume you mean any rural dwellers? Most pay for their own water and sanitary. Esb is paid for by connection fees and standing charges. Fcukall public transport. I'd take a picture of the road passing our place and youd see road maintenance isn't up high on priorities but that the same in most parts of this country.
Anyway lads this fella is a troll only trying to build on perceived stereotypes of farmers. He's done well to keep it going this long.

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Factory farming will never prevail in Ireland because

1. Land is too expensive
2. It's hard to get more than a square kilometre of land in one block here in Kerry
3. We don't have a workforce willing to work in agriculture on the ground level
4. Labour is too expensive

im not necessarily talking about 'factory farming', apologies, i dont even know what that term really means?

what i mean is, your proposal sounds very similar to how large corporations work, i.e. become monopolistic by nature and squeeze small players out of the market. please correct me if im wrong, maybe im misinterpreting your opinions?

automation of the workplace is a very interesting argument, i feel there is a point that automation is doing damage to the workforce, but of course it is debatable.

you can also debate about the cost of labour, i feel the real cost is the cost of living which is pushing up the cost of labour. we need to address the cost of living in order to deal with the cost of labour first.

NovemberJersey

Jeff with the EU stocking rate rules it would never ever be possible to have the factory farms seen in America with 1000 cows zero grazing on 100 acres all year round with the feed drawn in - can you understand?

Big farms = better

I own plenty of Kerry group shares anyway, id only be delighted if half of the land county Kerry came up for sale

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Big farms = better

i would strongly disagree with this statement

NovemberJersey

Mooooo wrote: »

What service is provided? I assume you mean any rural dwellers? Most pay for their own water and sanitary. Esb is paid for by connection fees and standing charges. Fcukall public transport. I'd take a picture of the road passing our place and youd see road maintenance isn't up high on priorities but that the same in most parts of this country.
Anyway lads this fella is a troll only trying to build on perceived stereotypes of farmers. He's done well to keep it going this long.

Would you f off calling me a troll?

NovemberJersey

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i would strongly disagree with this statement

Capitalism though, the quota system stopped capitalism from setting into effect with farming since the 80's but with the quota gone and the recent oversupply of milk and crash in price only the biggest and best able to produce cheap food will be left, the SFP is slowing this process but won't be able to stop it!

Graham

Mooooo wrote: »

Anyway lads this fella is a troll only trying to build on perceived stereotypes of farmers. He's done well to keep it going this long.

Maybe he's genuine. There's always the possibility we've found the 1 farmer in the country advocating a tax on agricultural land.

JeffKenna

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Jeff with the EU stocking rate rules it would never ever be possible to have the factory farms seen in America with 1000 cows zero grazing on 100 acres all year round with the feed drawn in - can you understand?

Big farms = better

I own plenty of Kerry group shares anyway, id only be delighted if half of the land county Kerry came up for sale

Why will we still be adhering to EU rules if there's no subsides? In any case land will become available quite openly once lads can't pay the land tax so I wouldn't really see the need to zero graze.

Mooooo

Graham wrote: »

Maybe he's genuine. There's always the possibility we've found the 1 farmer in the country advocating a tax on agricultural land.

But he won't have to pay it as he is making so much profit

Signpost

Just for the pure laugh of it I'd love to know a few of your figures which should roll off the tongue of such a 'big farmer'.

1) How many milking cows have you?
2) How many kgs of solids are you producing per ha?
3) What stocking rate are you?
4) How many ton of grass per h/a did you grow in 2016?
5) How many staff have you?
6) What number of cattle did you have for determining your SFP of 46k?

Could ask more but should give a fair indication of how successful your farm is to be consistently getting 60k after tax while have all these multitudes of expenses. Yet to meet a farmer who is keen to blow up the size of their enterprise while actually turning a profit, usually the lads driving dads land cruiser and wearing the dealer boots who have these wild fantasies.

As a 'small' farmer with no employees, meaning I actually do the 'hard work' rather than paying someone else to dirty their hands, I've no problem paying tax, obviously I pay an accountant to see what ways I can reduce my tax bill but any company that doesnt do that isn't running to its potential. I am quite proud to contribute to the economy and the future development of the country so to be honest I think what your saying is total horse, every SME pays tax on profits, welcome to reality. You knew that when you got in to the industry, if it bothers you that much give your local auctioneer a call and put the for sale sign up. As for your 33% across the board suggestion I think you should take it to the Healy Rae's, could definitely see them taking that to the Dail chamber... Would love to see one of your utility bills because you'd be the thickest kerry bloix I've ever come across.

JeffKenna

Mooooo wrote: »

But he won't have to pay it as he is making so much profit

No no you have it wrong, he'll have to pay the land tax just not the tax on the profits.

Wanderer78

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Capitalism though, the quota system stopped capitalism from setting into effect with farming since the 80's but with the quota gone and the recent oversupply of milk and crash in price only the biggest and best able to produce cheap food will be left behind, the SFP is slowing this process but won't be able to stop it!

and this is exactly the problem. our free market economic capitalist systems are failing, and very badly. its all based on fundamentally flawed economic theories such as neoliberalism and neoclassical theory. these theories and systems are a bust but sadly we havent accepted them yet. at this stage it truly looks like we re playing the, 'extend and pretend' and 'pray and delay' game with these systems, but its looking very likely these systems will collapse spectacularly, eventually, only problem is, nobody really knows the details of what, when, where and how. if we continue with these systems, we will end the ability of this planet to maintain life including ours. we are in desperate need of creating cooperatively based systems including cooperative farming. we need everybody on board, or we re truly done as a species. this is the kind of future we need to be planning.

NovemberJersey

JeffKenna wrote: »

Why will we still be adhering to EU rules if there's no subsides? In any case land will become available quite openly once lads can't pay the land tax so I wouldn't really see the need to zero graze.

I'm a farmer, why can't you take any of what i say for granted instead of making me explain everything to you? Try driving 1000 cows into a paddock on a rainy summers evening and tell me how you get on. And we'd still have to play ball with the eu to sell into their market and preserve our worldwide reputation of being a reputable food source

Graham

JeffKenna wrote: »

No no you have it wrong, he'll have to pay the land tax just not the tax on the profits.

An agricultural land tax would also make rural dating harder. 'How many acres have you' would suddenly become a tax calculation.

Signpost

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I'm a farmer, why can't you take any of what i say for granted instead of making me explain everything to you? Try driving 1000 cows into a paddock on a rainy summers evening and tell me how you get on. And we'd still have to play ball with the eu to sell into their market and preserve our worldwide reputation of being a reputable food source

This is exactly why I can't tale you seriously. Open to correction but is Tom Browne in Killeagh not the only farm in Ireland to have topped the 1000 mark? Also the fact that the biggest farmers in Kerry are running around 450 ish cows... Muppet

Graham

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I'm a farmer, why can't you take any of what i say for granted instead of making me explain everything to you? Try driving 1000 cows into a paddock on a rainy summers evening and tell me how you get on. And we'd still have to play ball with the eu to sell into their market and preserve our worldwide reputation of being a reputable food source

As pointed out, others appear to manage it:

Earlier this week, Tom and Simon Browne of Greenhills farm, Killeagh, Co Cork, fitted their 1,000 dairy cows with the MooMonitor+, a health and fertility monitoring system designed by Dairymaster.

Greenhills farm is Ireland’s largest dairy farm where the Brownes operate from a 486ha (1,200 acres) platform, of which 166ha is leased. Much of the leased land is located within two miles of the home farm and is used for silage or zero-grazing, if needed.

NovemberJersey

Signpost wrote: »

Just for the pure laugh of it I'd love to know a few of your figures which should roll off the tongue of such a 'big farmer'.

1) How many milking cows have you?
2) How many kgs of solids are you producing per ha?
3) What stocking rate are you?
4) How many ton of grass per h/a did you grow in 2016?
5) How many staff have you?
6) What number of cattle did you have for determining your SFP of 46k?

1. 201 during the peek this summer
2. I don't calculate it that way but my Holsteins average 1,450 gallons a year off the 345 acres I'm farming altogethee (over a square kilometre of land around the parlour is owned by me and the rest rented for my heifers/ bit of silage). Throughout the summer I was sticking to 3.6% protein but to be fair they were on 5kg of nuts daily in the parlour and had plenty of grass
3. I was 160kg/ha I think
4. I've no time for that rubbish
5. 1 man full time all year, another hired in full time for spring
6. I was milking 180 at the time of the SFP being calculated but it was done over 3 years, half way through I got out of beef cattle as I was losing my shirt at them

NovemberJersey

Signpost wrote: »

This is exactly why I can't tale you seriously. Open to correction but is Tom Browne in Killeagh not the only farm in Ireland to have topped the 1000 mark? Also the fact that the biggest farmers in Kerry are running around 450 ish cows... Muppet

Tom Browne had a massive write up in the farmers journal about 18 month ago, he was milking 900 cows at the time. They'd of had at least 6,000,000 litres of milk. Each litre of milk was costing 30c to produce before he paid for any of his own silage rig which alone was almost the price of a farm. Co ops in west cork pay slightly slightly better prices than Kerry but Kerry paid out something like 26c on average for the past year so if Tom Browne was with them he'd have lost €180,000

How am I a muppet??

Sorry Tom would have actually lost €240,000

chickendinner

NovemberJersey wrote: »

My farm is profitable enough but I employ so many people I shouldn't have to pay any taxes

Signpost wrote: »

5) How many staff have you?






5. 1 man full time all year, another hired in full time for spring

give it up man,

NovemberJersey

chickendinner wrote: »

give it up man,

I indirectly employ many more throughout the year? I read your previous posts and I don't think your in a position to be laughing at anyone.

JMF240

Deal Breaker: Which part of Kerry is your land in?

Signpost

1.43 stocking rate - Big farmer stocking rate? I actually cant bring myself to discuss how ****ing stupid you clearly are by this one statement alone.

1324960 litres this year @ .26c p/l -> 344500
46000 SFP
390000 per year income including SFP

Now aside from the fact your in Kerry and cows are not out on Feb 1 to Dec 1 lets just do some basic calculations on an imaginary climate farm in Kerry

Ration 80k - Assuming it was 5kg all year and not higher in spring & fall etc, and thats going for a cheap ration. In reality for a 1450 gallon cow in Kerry it would be a 21% nut which would have cost you 92000 for 305 day milking...
Full time labourer -> 35000
Part Time Labour -> 10000
costs keeping cows -> 140700

All these figures are probably low water, but lets stay playing along.

Absolutely amazing big farmer so lets cancel out calf sales with costs of keeping calves, which obviously wont happen but anyway...
Cull's cancel out the cost of bringing in replacements, not going to happen with your holsteins but its too late for depreciation values.

After above expenses 124300 left over

Now lets take out other expenses, phone, diesel, insurance, borrowings, fertilizers, transport, machinery,
capital investments, maintenance, accountancy and professional fees, fencing, contractor costs, reseeding etc etc etc

Buddy tax is the least of your worries, you only need to pay it on profit. If you think your turning 60K profit for your kids I think you might need to do a test for dyslexia...

Your Kerry shares are based on 1 share per 1000 gallons, you were milking circa 180 cows when they were being given out, even if you had some amazing Kerry cow back then doing the 1450 gallons thats 261 shares per year, I'm afraid with the exception of the black valley you aint buying **** with your shares bud.

As regards your SFP, ya... I'd say just close the account now and save yourself the embarrassment.

NovemberJersey

JMF240 wrote: »

Deal Breaker: Which part of Kerry is your land in?

I'm 100% not saying what part of Kerry I'm from, any moron could name any town anyway that doesn't prove anything

NovemberJersey

Signpost wrote: »

1.43 stocking rate - Big farmer stocking rate? I actually cant bring myself to discuss how ****ing stupid you clearly are by this one statement alone.

1324960 litres this year @ .26c p/l -> 344500
46000 SFP
390000 per year income including SFP

Now aside from the fact your in Kerry and cows are not out on Feb 1 to Dec 1 lets just do some basic calculations on an imaginary climate farm in Kerry

Ration 80k - Assuming it was 5kg all year and not higher in spring & fall etc, and thats going for a cheap ration. In reality for a 1450 gallon cow in Kerry it would be a 21% nut which would have cost you 92000 for 305 day milking...
Full time labourer -> 35000
Part Time Labour -> 10000
costs keeping cows -> 140700

All these figures are probably low water, but lets stay playing along.

Absolutely amazing big farmer so lets cancel out calf sales with costs of keeping calves, which obviously wont happen but anyway...
Cull's cancel out the cost of bringing in replacements, not going to happen with your holsteins but its too late for depreciation values.

After above expenses 124300 left over

Now lets take out other expenses, phone, diesel, insurance, borrowings, fertilizers, transport, machinery,
capital investments, maintenance, accountancy and professional fees, fencing, contractor costs, reseeding etc etc etc

Buddy tax is the least of your worries, you only need to pay it on profit. If you think your turning 60K profit for your kids I think you might need to do a test for dyslexia...

Your Kerry shares are based on 1 share per 1000 gallons, you were milking circa 180 cows when they were being given out, even if you had some amazing Kerry cow back then doing the 1450 gallons thats 261 shares per year, I'm afraid with the exception of the black valley you aint buying **** with your shares bud.

As regards your SFP, ya... I'd say just close the account now and save yourself the embarrassment.

I've no idea where your pulling these figures from but you seem very bitter with all the abuse your giving me and I pity you. Your figures are so wrong I'm not even going there with contradicting you but a few things - I'm in the winter milk and getting a premium price. My labour is a lot cheaper than what your saying. I've off farm income and how did you decide I'm not making any money from culling cows and selling my calves after keeping them as yearlings? I'm in one of the driest parts of Kerry - I hope that doesn't upset you. I'd calculated at one stage anyway that by the time all my shares are converted I'll have 18,000 PLC's. You really did embarrass yourself with your bitter outburst. Cool your jets pal. I'll give you a job feeding calves during the spring time and show you how it's done

Signpost

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I've no idea where your pulling these figures from but you seem very bitter with all the abuse your giving me and I pity you

You said Kerry average was 26 c per litre this year. As you know a gallon is 4.5461 lires, 1450 gallones * 201 cows * 4.5461 litres *.26 c is the milk cheque.
46000 is your SFP you said.
Ration approx 250 euro a ton so - 5 Kg of ration * 305 days * 0.25 is a cheap ration based on what you said.
Cheap labourer would cost 35k per year. Part time in spring cheap would be 10000.
Keeping a cow would be around 700 per year in Kerry.

All the above are low costs, I didnt include the land rental you mentioned etc for instance either to give you a half credible chance.

I'm not bitter with you at all, I just don't know should we be contacting the social services to get you checked out or if your actually delusional enough to think we are buying your 1.5 LU big farmer stocking rate... Seriously, it was fun while it lasted but eventually you are better just admitting defeat / trolling and moving onto some other industry. I'd suggest the Guards, there very touchy atm.

NovemberJersey

Can people report that signpost fella? It's not on with the name calling and telling me I'm dyslexic. Completely uncalled for and unprovoked, your not allowed behave in such a confrontational manner on here and I was having a fruitful discussion and am genuinely very down after that level of abuse I've received from him.

Signpost

NovemberJersey wrote: »

I'll give you a job feeding calves during the spring time and show you how it's done

You know what, game on. If your turning 60k per year on them figures I will willing feed each and every calf on your farm. PM me your number and location, Kerry is absolutely no problem for me to travel to.
Lads, I'll be a millionaire when ye see me again, I'll send ye a postcard!

Signpost

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Can people report that signpost fella? It's not on with the name calling and telling me I'm dyslexic. Completely uncalled for and unprovoked, your not allowed behave in such a confrontational manner on here and I was having a fruitful discussion and am genuinely very down after that level of abuse I've received from him.

There is a triangle with an ! on each of my posts, knock yourself out!

JMF240

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Can people report that signpost fella? It's not on with the name calling and telling me I'm dyslexic. Completely uncalled for and unprovoked, your not allowed behave in such a confrontational manner on here and I was having a fruitful discussion and am genuinely very down after that level of abuse I've received from him.

His figures seem logical to me anyway. Oh and what about the abuse you spouted at others, calling a someone a 'creep' and mocking others for having so many posts and suspecting they have nothing to do in their lives, even though you are here posting since yesterday afternoon .