Gasworks site.

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

id highly recommend the work of people such as ellen brown, steve keen, michael hudson and jim rickards in regards the workings of banks in particular public banks. there actually are a couple of groups in ireland advocating for this kind of system for our country, and id have to agree with them. theres many successful public banks around the world including germanys own sparkasse savings bank, and according to the experts, is a very successful banking system, and very stable. please be aware, it was foreign, privately owned banks that we owed/owe our debts to. why not create our own debts and owe them back to ourselves. we can make use of the interest from these loans by circulating them again rather than having other foreign financial institutions removing them in 'rent seeking' fashion.

another misunderstanding of banking, i.e. deposits and loans, deposits are not used in loans, deposits are not given out as loans. deposits always remain on the books of banks, loans are created by means of 'double entry bookkeeping'.

No answer then on where this money comes from , how we pay it back and what happens if we default. You can recommend all the people you like but there are so many holes /vague statements in stuff like 'create' 'lend to ourselves'money its ridiculous or some sort of ponsi scheme
Create money out of nothing equals weimar Germany hyperinflation/economy screwed.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

No answer then on where this money comes from , how we pay it back and what happens if we default. You can recommend all the people you like but there are so many holes /vague statements in stuff like 'create'money its ridiculous.
Create money out of nothing equals weimar Germany hyperinflation/economy screwed.

again, you're missing the point, the majority of our 'money' is created out of nothing as it is, the only problem is the benefits of these actions are effectively syphoned off by privately owned global financial institutions. i know im doing a poor job of explaining this hence my recommendations, heres another one, a documentary called 'four horsemen' by a company called 'renegade inc', available on youtube. again, public banks are in operation all over the world, particularly in the brics nations. ellen brown has shown in her work that the creation of a public banking system would not lead to hyperinflation, and some politicians in america are seriously looking into this. keen and hudson are also advocators for such systems, and banking is effectively their areas of expertise. dont forget, central banks such as our own ecb has been creating money out of nowhere, backed by nothing only our promise to pay it back, since its creation, its how banking works, or doesnt work in some cases.

Dum_Dum

If the monetary system, banking and fiat was taught in schools, there'd be a revolution!

Wanderer78

Dum_Dum wrote: »

If the monetary system, banking and fiat was taught in schools, there'd be a revolution!

completely agree, its been deeply shocking and disturbing to discover how these systems work or dont work, particularly for the majority. the information is out there though, requires a bit of digging. i do think everybody should research these matters as they affect all us, and sometimes deeply negatively.

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, you're missing the point, the majority of our 'money' is created out of nothing as it is, the only problem is the benefits of these actions are effectively syphoned off by privately owned global financial institutions. i know im doing a poor job of explaining this hence my recommendations, heres another one, a documentary called 'four horsemen' by a company called 'renegade inc', available on youtube. again, public banks are in operation all over the world, particularly in the brics nations. ellen brown has shown in her work that the creation of a public banking system would not lead to hyperinflation, and some politicians in america are seriously looking into this. keen and hudson are also advocators for such systems, and banking is effectively their areas of expertise. dont forget, central banks such as our own ecb has been creating money out of nowhere, backed by nothing only our promise to pay it back, since its creation, its how banking works, or doesnt work in some cases.

I'm not missing the point, I think you'll find its impossible To explain coz its codology.I'm saying you cant create money on balance sheets without consequences.The ECB can create money at the risk of inflation, interest rates etc.banks and not even our own central bank can create money without it being owed to someone/organisation, you can write a million quid onto any balance sheet but you have to pay it back or else default at some stage no matter what accounting bull its entered as.

These public banks you keep mentioning, I'd guess they were started with customers, , investors,creditors like every bank practically..it's a public public owned bank, money needs to be paid back.
So where does the money come from, don't just say its created, the ecb can kind of do that with limited consequences, how does a public bank create money without acting fraudulently and shortly after crashing and burning ?

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

I'm not missing the point, I think you'll find its impossible To explain coz its codology.I'm saying you cant create money on balance sheets without consequences.The ECB can create money at the risk of inflation, interest rates etc.banks and not even our own central bank can create money without it being owed to someone/organisation, you can write a million quid onto any balance sheet but you have to pay it back or else default at some stage no matter what accounting bull its entered as.

These public banks you keep mentioning, I'd guess they were started with customers, , investors,creditors like every bank practically..it's a public public owned bank, money needs to be paid back.
So where does the money come from, don't just say its created, the ecb can kind of do that with limited consequences, how does a public bank create money without acting fraudulently and shortly after crashing and burning ?

im busy now, i truly would recommend the work of those ive mentioned, as they d explain it far better than i would. again, public banks are working fine around the world in accordance to global banking rules. public banks are funded in many ways including public depositors, and public funding. the bank of north dakota seems to work very well as a state bank, using state funding. its truly disturbing to see the amount of people that dont understand banking, please be aware, ive mentioned the work of some highly respected researchers regarding these issues including well respected peer reviewed academics such as hudson and keen. i ll be back online later to continue this discussion as i beleive its extremely important. i will agree with rickards though, there is an invisible confidence boundary in which money can be created, in which we dont know where it is, i.e. there is a limit to which how much we can create, and when that confidence is broken, the **** really hits the fan. again, the majority of our money is created out of nothing, on the back of our promise to pay it back! period! four horsemen does a great job of explaining this, better than me.

makes for nice viewing on this lovely sunny day, enjoy:

Max Powers

Bank of dakota....state funding(or public deposits as you say) ...that's it....money from the state which has to be generated by taxes etc or borrowed from elsewhere and paid back at later date, its not created with accounting wizardry/fraud , its borrowed.

Johnboy1951

If you as a bank convince people to deposit or invest money in your bank, lets say to the amount of 1 million of whatever currency you choose.

Your bank can then loan money to borrowers up to multiple times what has been deposited/invested. It used to be 9 or 10 times but am not up to date on this.

So unless you are very careless with your loans you will have a steady income of repayments and interest on 'money' you loaned but never physically had.
That money is passed around amongst institutions electronically, and no money actually changes hands.

What is does depend upon as mentioned earlier is 'confidence' others have in your bank, that they are prepared to put on their accounts an amount you owe them, without demanding physical money from you.
Your 'promissory note' is sufficient when the confidence is there.

It has been years since I looked at any of this ..... time to refresh I think.

What we should have is a state bank ...... a bank owned by the people for the benefit of the people, where what little profit it produces goes back into those who support the bank by deposits or loans.

Max Powers

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

If you as a bank convince people to deposit or invest money in your bank, lets say to the amount of 1 million of whatever currency you choose.

Your bank can then loan money to borrowers up to multiple times what has been deposited/invested. It used to be 9 or 10 times but am not up to date on this.

So unless you are very careless with your loans you will have a steady income of repayments and interest on 'money' you loaned but never physically had.
That money is passed around amongst institutions electronically, and no money actually changes hands.

What is does depend upon as mentioned earlier is 'confidence' others have in your bank, that they are prepared to put on their accounts an amount you owe them, without demanding physical money from you.
Your 'promissory note' is sufficient when the confidence is there.

It has been years since I looked at any of this ..... time to refresh I think.

What we should have is a state bank ...... a bank owned by the people for the benefit of the people, where what little profit it produces goes back into those who support the bank by deposits or loans.

A reasonable post John boy, unlike this nonsense where we can magic up a bank, money out of thin air for all the projects we like,and if stuff goes south and we default,no consequences.

Johnboy1951

Max Powers wrote: »

A reasonable post John boy, unlike this nonsense where we can magic up a bank, money out of thin air for all the projects we like,and if stuff goes south and we default,no consequences.

I guess loaning money that does not exist (loans can be multiple times the deposits) is making money out of thin air.

Max Powers

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I guess loaning money that does not exist (loans can be multiple times the deposits) is making money out of thin air.

You're not wrong their JB but at least we have recognition of the banks deposit rate requirements as you pointed out and someone is on the hook if it goes pear shaped.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote:

You're not wrong their JB but at least we have recognition of the banks deposit rate requirements as you pointed out and someone is on the hook if it goes pear shaped.

Thankfully johnboy explained it far better than I and at least gets the idea that the majority of our money is indeed created from virtually nothing. Sadly it looks like the financial sector is moving on from bail outs, and is probably heading into the world of 'bail ins', so yes, average Joe and Mary is still on the hook if a bank fails, it's consequences are just more direct.

Johnboy1951

Max Powers wrote: »

You're not wrong their JB but at least we have recognition of the banks deposit rate requirements as you pointed out and someone is on the hook if it goes pear shaped.

Banks are commercial companies. They have been treated differently to all other commercial entities.

If a commercial company fails we have sympathy for the workers and support their endeavours to get their pension and other rights.
We would never consider paying the shareholders of that company out of our taxes for their losses at the failure.
We would never consider paying the management of that company, out of our taxes, huge salaries and bonuses after the failure.
The deposits, up to 100K were insured/guaranteed IIRC.

If we had a strong publicly owned bank, we could have left those banks fail like we would any other company/corporation, and continued with 'our own' bank in public ownership.
Deposits up to 100K from the failed bank could be transferred to 'our bank' and all us 'joe soaps' could continue on as before.

But no ..... we did not have the means to do this, so we pay ...

IMO, at the very minimum, there should be an extra levy on bank profits until all monies have been recovered, including interest, payable into the public purse.

That money should be used to set up and run a publicly owned bank, run for the citizens and no other ...... including whatever political colour wields power at any time.

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Thankfully johnboy explained it far better than I and at least gets the idea that the majority of our money is indeed created from virtually nothing. Sadly it looks like the financial sector is moving on from bail outs, and is probably heading into the world of 'bail ins', so yes, average Joe and Mary is still on the hook if a bank fails, it's consequences are just more direct.

What jb said is very different to what you were saying.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

What jb said is very different to what you were saying.

apologies, i know im not good at explaining myself well but johnboy is explaining it very well, we both more or less mean the same thing

longshanks

So yeah, the Gasworks site...

Deiseen

Anyone know how well the Daytripper tickets are selling? Would hate to see it end this year so hope it does well!

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

Anyone know how well the Daytripper tickets are selling? Would hate to see it end this year so hope it does well!

Got 2 myself, never miss it.I'd imagine/hope the Friday would be good attendance with younger crowd...I was informed by someone that its a big enough name to get, never heard of clean bandit myself...needless to say I'm going Saturday.

PTH2009

hopefully Daytripper goes well down there

I plan on going into one of the near by pubs and try and hear it all for free :D (Wander inn or Grimes). Might bite the bullet and go too UB40

Clean Bandit have a lot of mainstream songs and are very popular with teens and young adults. Jenny Greene/Smash hits will also attract a few older people (and young people too)

Ub40 will attract too, theres a big regge/Mob scene in Waterford

PTH2009

Should be some buzz at daytripper now as it's the weekend before the All Ireland final

Max Powers

PTH2009 wrote: »

Should be some buzz at daytripper now as it's the weekend before the All Ireland final

Looking forward to it big time.I parked in there recently, noticed pedestrian bridge was blocked off, looks finished, any ideas why or is it crossable now?

mooseknunkle

PTH2009 wrote: »

Should be some buzz at daytripper now as it's the weekend before the All Ireland final

Why would it be some buzz?

Max Powers

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Why would it be some buzz?

Think everyone has a bit of pep in their step since Sunday, lends itself to general atmosphere, looking forward to hopefully winning again with a bit of luck.

Gillman1998

Max Powers wrote: »

Got 2 myself, never miss it.I'd imagine/hope the Friday would be good attendance with younger crowd...I was informed by someone that its a big enough name to get, never heard of clean bandit myself...needless to say I'm going Saturday.

I've read good things about Daytripper, it's my first year in Waterford so I was wondering how it really is - security, toilets, bars etc, is it well run?

longshanks

Gillman1998 wrote: »

I've read good things about Daytripper, it's my first year in Waterford so I was wondering how it really is - security, toilets, bars etc, is it well run?

There will be guards and security wandering around the place, lots of portaloos and the usual concert bar set up. I've never seen or heard about trouble at it, so if you like the groups playing you should have a good time.