FT: diesel faces global crash

BoatMad

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

White guy you sit here, you drive a diesel
Black guy you sit here, you drive a petrol

I'm not kidding .

Fuel is fuel
Tell me why it is not >?

because we live in a consumer competitive capitalist economy, where by an large one shop can charge whats it likes for bread, where another can do likewise , no court will intervene as there is no legislation setting maximum pricing .

hence your argument has no foundation, fuel pricing is a combination of regulatory tax take and free market price setting and is why recently I can buy diesel from 118.9 to 123.9 even through the exact same stuff pours out of the pump

oppenheimer1

BoatMad wrote: »

The fact remains that Ireland is completely an outlier as far as diesel is concerned , about 50 % of the national fleet is diesel and about 70% of recent new cars are now diesel. This is at complete variance to the rest of Europe.

So, you have to ask yourself why, the answer is the obvious bias in the motor tax that benefits diesels and a combination of lower fuel costs and greater fuel efficiency

This would suggest that in Ireland, running costs , perceived or other wise , play a very significant role in decision making . This is coupled by the fact that in ireland we drive way more on average then even the Americans.

All this is good news for EVs as the offer the chance to further reduce running costs, which seemingly are held dear to peoples hearts here

Over time ( 5 years or so ) you will see the tax position on diesel and Co2 change to make diesel unattractive and that will drive more to consider EVs

The tax position on EV's will have to change too, with some form of road pricing inevitable. Excise and VAT on fuel is a huge revenue stream for the government.

EV will only cost slightly less or the same as diesel is now per Km once established. EV is currently extremely cheap due to the incentives offered yet has minimal market penetration whick shoes that car buyers in Ireland are not just running cost sensitive.

BoatMad

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The tax position on EV's will have to change too, with some form of road pricing inevitable. Excise and VAT on fuel is a huge revenue stream for the government.

EV will only cost slightly less or the same as diesel is now per Km once established. EV is currently extremely cheap due to the incentives offered yet has minimal market penetration whick shoes that car buyers in Ireland are not just running cost sensitive.

agree, in the long run, the exchequer will have to recover lost taxes on hydrocarbons , so we can expect that the costs of EVs will rise , assuming they gain widespread market penetration of course . As you say road pricing etc

EVs will remain cheaper to run largely because electricity is cheaper to acquire then hydrocarbons , solar PV and other forms of microgeneeration will play an increasing role as capital process fall.

The major disincentives on EV purchases in the recent past have not be associated with running costs one way or the other , the major issue has been range , and model choice. Both of these are likely to begin to be addressed in the next 2-5 years and there the inherent lower running costs of EVs will tend to become more and more attractive

They have to , the alternative is the continued use of ICE and hydrocarbon fuel sources to the detriment of the environment around us . EVs in themselves anrt a solution unless you accept that factor ( well there are some minor benefits , performance and ambient noise )

BorneTobyWilde

BoatMad wrote: »

because we live in a consumer competitive capitalist economy, where by an large one shop can charge whats it likes for bread, where another can do likewise , no court will intervene as there is no legislation setting maximum pricing .

hence your argument has no foundation, fuel pricing is a combination of regulatory tax take and free market price setting and is why recently I can buy diesel from 118.9 to 123.9 even through the exact same stuff pours out of the pump

Government should tax both fuels at same rate, and lower both rates. They're taxing one guy more than the other for a fuel to power a vehicle.

BoatMad

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Government should tax both fuels at same rate, and lower both rates.

if anything given the excessive pollution issues with diesel , it should be taxed slightly higher

but I fail to see any justification for lowering the overall rate, all that happens is more income tax has to be extracted from the already over burdened middle classes to compensate.

there is an argument that duties on fuels should be removed and other forms of tax be used , like road pricing etc . But even the environmental issues around hydrocarbons ( and the basic thermodynamic inefficiency of the 19th century bag of bolts that is the ICE engine ) I see no purpose to making such fuel cheaper and in fact over time duties should be raised and incentives on EVs corresponding raised to encourage changeover

gctest50

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Tell me why it is not >?

cos it has been selling diesel cars for the past few years and they'll be obsolete soon cos they're poisoning everyone


Diesel is more expensive it seems before tax and the rest

http://bit.ly/2hQFQdg

Price before taxes are added   Petrol :	46.06c 	Diesel :  49.20c

Total taxes                    Petrol : 85.34c  Diesel :  72.70c

BoatMad

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Government should tax both fuels at same rate, and lower both rates. They're taxing one guy more than the other for a fuel to power a vehicle.

I think they certainly also intend to remove the advantage diesel has

gctest50

The health angle will come in to play, more sales for SIMI



the sister is looking happy with herself here :



Members of Doctors Against Diesel claim that 9,400 people living in inner-city London die prematurely every year as a result of inhaling fumes.

biko

OP link is paywall or not working
Diesel discussion here