Occupy Nama: City property taken over to house homeless

Loveinapril

Cdosrun wrote: »

People don't seem to understand it from their point even those who claim they work with them.
Calling them clients rather than people is enough for me to know it is run like business for profit.

Different people refer to people they work with by different terms, clients, residents or service users. This is no way makes it about business or profit. When you are talking about a group of people who use a service you don't want to focus on their vulnerability, like "I was speaking with all the addicts/ homeless people". I personally think service user or client is a more respectful way of speaking about the people I work with. That way they aren't labelled with their 'issue' every time they are spoken about. In saying that, the group I work with now are mostly under 20 so they are widely referred to as 'young people'. It is the lingo used within the services I know anyway.

Cdosrun

I suppose they are clients as they have to pay for the service the
charity provides.
People here think you just walk up and say "homeless need a bed"
and you get it.

In a few years the people who boards would call normal and they get their life back will be posting about how it really is.

Hellrazer

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

Again, missing the point.

The govt give the charities 34m, and they pay themselves 36m.

Just use the same money to help the homeless, no need for the middle man in between then.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Bravo.

But I am certain that there is some existential point you have totally failed to understand here. :cool:

But I am sure someone will come along and explain it all for us.

(There is no explanation IMV, but I bet someone has one just the same!)

There is a very simple explanation and that is that the €36 million in the governments hands would probably end up being closer to €200 million by the time you take in the multiple layers of government red tape and public sector workers.
You`d have multiple levels of clerical staff,management,social workers,care workers etc etc before one "client" was ever looked after so instead of 875 staff being paid €36 million you`d probably have 2000 staff being paid at public sector rates.

I know people are complaining about Focus and Peter Mc Verys wages but honestly these charities are not about as someone mentioned earlier "lining their pockets"
They genuinely are trying their best to look after these people sleeping on the streets and trying to keep them off the streets.


As for this occupy thing -- If it got even one family off the streets by way of the media attention its getting then its been a successful campaign.No one in 2016 Ireland should be sleeping rough regardless of their mental state or addiction problems.

Everyone here that's calling for them to be arrested etc is sitting at home right now in their nice cosy warm home with plenty of food,drink and access to medicine if needed and not sleeping in some doorway in minus 2 degrees.

Imagine how that feels at the start of Christmas week.

If everyone that posted in this thread even spent one night doing a food run and actually saw the deplorable conditions out there then attitudes would change very quickly.

bodhrandude

Cdosrun

What does this guy do if he ends up homeless .

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057681074/1/#post101940222

Cdosrun

He won't get rent allowance .no proof of renting for five years and not on the housing list.

Loveinapril

Cdosrun wrote: »

He won't get rent allowance .no proof of renting for five years and not on the housing list.

Have you read the post? He was in a council house, therefore was housed by a local authority due to previously being on the housing list. And the criteria for the housing list is to have been assessed as in need of housing or evidence of renting for 6 months, not 5 years. If someone is accessing homeless services they are given homeless priority on the list. Maybe do a bit of research before you start stating things as fact.

Cdosrun

Loveinapril wrote: »

Have you read the post? He was in a council house, therefore was housed by a local authority due to previously being on the housing list. And the criteria for the housing list is to have been assessed as in need of housing or evidence of renting for 6 months, not 5 years. If someone is accessing homeless services they are given homeless priority on the list. Maybe do a bit of research before you start stating things as fact.

I don't need research,I jumped the gun a but is is resident in the country for the last five years
So if you have been out of the country for say nine months in the last five years your in trouble.
He was housed so that takes him off the housing list and now if he were to get a flat he would need 6 months rent and deposit before
he would even be considered for rent allowance.

The points you pickup in my post don't really answer anything,just nitpicking.

donkeykong5

foggy_lad wrote: »

david75 wrote: »

The project has now raised €50k

People's imaginations and sense of good has been sparked.

Who is taking care of the money? what is it being spent on as spending it on this building is a waste of money! When this pet project is finished where will the money end up?

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

The homeless charities (a good portion of them) are big business money machines, out to line their own pockets, and have crafted the term "homelessness"' into a a finely tuned, fiercely competitive and tterritorial business.

Here is figures from the McVerry Trust and Focus.



So we the tax payer threw them just shy of 34'million. And.they spent almost 36 million on salaries and wages on their own employees.

Do the maths.

All that money yet people are still being left to their own devices when what they need most of all is treatment for their mental health issues! Most addicts have serious underlying mental health issues that are not addressed which leads them into the grips of drink, drugs and addiction.

I really hope that paul kelly x console isn't reading this thread. He will be jumping on the bandwagon in a flash.

Loveinapril

Cdosrun wrote: »

I don't need research,I jumped the gun a but is is resident in the country for the last five years
So if you have been out of the country for say nine months in the last five years your in trouble.
He was housed so that takes him off the housing list and now if he were to get a flat he would need 6 months rent and deposit before
he would even be considered for rent allowance.

The points you pickup in my post don't really answer anything,just nitpicking.

You asked a question and gave a misinformed answer (to your own question!). I clarified it for you. The man in question would be assessed as in need of housing (regardless of his renting status) therefore would be placed on the housing list. If he accesses homeless services prior to this, he may be given homeless priority. In regards to rent supplement, the CWO would provide the deposit for renting if one has not been received before (providing the recipient is on a welfare payment).

drdeadlift

gctest50 wrote: »

That's the worst reason ever, it's like keeping a herd of sika deer so fleas and ticks can live

A bit like the fleas and ticks, it seems the charisites can't change/upskill :



A (relative) few are ok, but you don't want the place crawling with parasites

i know,the money should be going to a government department dealing with the problem.People can argue over the running costs of a business(charity) there in lies the problem.

fatknacker

The more I look at it, the more I see that the Home Sweet Home project is less about the homeless and more about people wanting to help the homeless.
I get that the vast majority of the population feel absolutely helpless towards the situation and want to be able to lend a hand in any which way they can. I get that it's coming from a good place with good intentions...especially "coz it's Christmas" and of course the simple solution is to pair homeless people up with the hundreds of empty buildings around the city.
It's a real nice idea in theory. Unfortunately the reality of trying to manage several homeless people will set in soon, after Christmas when the season of goodwill begins tapering off and there's less interest in doing your bit.
What happens then?

Wheeliebin30

Hellrazer wrote: »

There is a very simple explanation and that is that the €36 million in the governments hands would probably end up being closer to €200 million by the time you take in the multiple layers of government red tape and public sector workers.
You`d have multiple levels of clerical staff,management,social workers,care workers etc etc before one "client" was ever looked after so instead of 875 staff being paid €36 million you`d probably have 2000 staff being paid at public sector rates.

I know people are complaining about Focus and Peter Mc Verys wages but honestly these charities are not about as someone mentioned earlier "lining their pockets"
They genuinely are trying their best to look after these people sleeping on the streets and trying to keep them off the streets.


As for this occupy thing -- If it got even one family off the streets by way of the media attention its getting then its been a successful campaign.No one in 2016 Ireland should be sleeping rough regardless of their mental state or addiction problems.

Everyone here that's calling for them to be arrested etc is sitting at home right now in their nice cosy warm home with plenty of food,drink and access to medicine if needed and not sleeping in some doorway in minus 2 degrees.

Imagine how that feels at the start of Christmas week.

If everyone that posted in this thread even spent one night doing a food run and actually saw the deplorable conditions out there then attitudes would change very quickly.

There wasn't one family on the streets so you're whole point is mute.

And there is people sleeping rough in every country in the world.

So why in Ireland in 2016 should there not be someone sleeping rough?

I'm not saying it's right but tell me why Ireland is unique to other countries in it should have solved the homeless issue?

jaysisjames

It would seem to me a temporary solution for a long term problem.
Its fu**in freezing in December, and these 10/15 people have more chance of staying alive if they're indoors at night.
It had highlights an issue with vacant buildings and people who could use them, and it highlights a need for some blue sky thinking by those in power for a problem that seems to be increasing. Don't let the celebrity angle blind you into easy cynicism.

Wheeliebin30

jaysisjames wrote: »

It would seem to me a temporary solution for a long term problem.
Its fu**in freezing in December, and these 10/15 people have more chance of staying alive if they're indoors at night.
It had highlights an issue with vacant buildings and people who could use them, and it highlights a need for some blue sky thinking by those in power for a problem that seems to be increasing. Don't let the celebrity angle blind you into easy cynicism.

There is already shelter and beds avaliable without this celebrity stunt.

Phoebas

jaysisjames wrote: »

It would seem to me a temporary solution for a long term problem.
Its fu**in freezing in December, and these 10/15 people have more chance of staying alive if they're indoors at night.
It had highlights an issue with vacant buildings and people who could use them, and it highlights a need for some blue sky thinking by those in power for a problem that seems to be increasing. Don't let the celebrity angle blind you into easy cynicism.

According to DCC, there is now provision made for every rough sleeper who wants a bed, so I wouldn't blame people for being cynical at some celebs jumping on a bandwagon.

http://www.dublincity.ie/emergency-expansion-230-bed-spaces-and-winter-rough-sleeping-count-announced

Within the context of increased demand for access to emergency accommodation the expansion of provision by 230 additional bed spaces is required in order to ensure no person is forced to sleep rough due to inadequate provision.

To be honest, if they really wanted to help, they'd have been better of linking in with the existing service providers in local government and in the charity sector and asking them how best their celebrity power could be brought to bear.

Gatling

Here's the current weekly spending for homelessness services .
And to think people are saying the government aren't doing enough.

business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/council-pays-1m-a-week-to-shelter-homeless-35304284.html

mahoganygas

With so many 'public figures' in their midst, why do they keep putting Dean Scurry in front of a camera?

He's not articulate when it comes to explaining what's going on, and seems to suffer from verbal diarrhea when the camera man says 'action'.

Wheeliebin30

Gatling wrote: »

Here's the current weekly spending for homelessness services .
And to think people are saying the government aren't doing enough.

business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/council-pays-1m-a-week-to-shelter-homeless-35304284.html

Sure everything is the government's fault.

There is no personal responsibility in this country anymore.

Just blame it on the government.

Whatever is happening on this thread, I just read something fantastic.

1,500 people have aapplied to volunteer.

Thats great.

For Forks Sake

Deleted User wrote: »

Whatever is happening on this thread, I just read something fantastic.

1,500 people have aapplied to volunteer.

Thats great.

Applied to volunteer to do what exactly?

Are they garda vetted? What experience in dealing with homelessness and addiction do they have?

Or is it just another case of slacktivism in action where people click and think that's their contribution to society made for the day??

Probably like the 44% of people who said they would house a Syrian refugee thistime last year. How's that working out.

Phoebas

Deleted User wrote: »

Whatever is happening on this thread, I just read something fantastic.

1,500 people have aapplied to volunteer.

Thats great.

I guess that one good thing that comes out of stunts like this is that, as least temporarily, it does enthuse people, so I suppose that's all to the good.

If I was a Simon or a Peter McVerry volunteer or even a DCC or HSE social worker, doing this work day in and day out, I might be a bit perplexed by the surge of interest.

NIMAN

Deleted User wrote: »

Whatever is happening on this thread, I just read something fantastic.

1,500 people have aapplied to volunteer.

Thats great.

1450 of them hoping to meet celebs, probably think Bono and the boys will be visiting any day now.

20Cent

If Jesus was to fly down from the sky surrounded by angels announcing peace on Earth forever some c**t would be posting on boards complaining about it.

mahoganygas

20Cent wrote:

If Jesus was to fly down from the sky surrounded by angels announcing peace on Earth forever some c**t would be posting on boards complaining about it.

I would proudly be that c**t.

Can you tell the difference between a Messiah and a charlatan?

Hint: there's no such thing as a Messiah.

Phoebas

20Cent wrote: »

If Jesus was to fly down from the sky surrounded by angels announcing peace on Earth forever some c**t would be posting on boards complaining about it.

Be a bit of competition for Brendan Ogle I suppose.

bazza1

20Cent wrote: »

If Jesus was to fly down from the sky surrounded by angels announcing peace on Earth forever some c**t would be posting on boards complaining about it.

Overpaid angels coming down here ,taking our jobs! Jesus isnt even Irish!:D

mahoganygas

bazza1 wrote:

Overpaid angels coming down here ,taking our jobs! Jesus isnt even Irish!

Jaysus!

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There is beds already available for everyone who wants them but they aren't allowed in if they are taking drugs or drink so a lot choose the street instead

the_syco wrote: »

Not everyone wants to be in a hostel with other people, as they're afraid of getting robbed, assaulted, or want to be able to drink. Some hostels don't care if you drink, but I'm led to believe that some don't allow it.

Apollo House is a “dry facility, and those entering are liable to be searched for drink or drugs. Security operates on the doors."

There will be no affect on the rough sleepers who are on the streets for the same reasons that any other hostel can't/won't accommodate them.

Joe prim

bazza1 wrote: »

Overpaid angels coming down here ,taking our jobs! Jesus isnt even Irish!:D

He is, on his mother's side, so he'd definitely qualify for a passport.

NIMAN

If RTE or any paper was interested enough, they could take a walk around that area at night, and once they find a few homeless rough sleepers (which I am sure they would), could ask them why they aren't in Apollo House?

To me this would prove that this action isn't the overall answer, its a very small sticking plaster.

Stonedpilot

NIMAN wrote: »

If RTE or any paper was interested enough, they could take a walk around that area at night, and once they find a few homeless rough sleepers (which I am sure they would), could ask them why they aren't in Apollo House?

To me this would prove that this action isn't the overall answer, its a very small sticking plaster.

So what?. Great oaks grow from small acorns hardly gonna solve the problem overnight are they?. Fair play to them no on willing to listen, make them!.

Dyr

Hellrazer wrote: »

There is a very simple explanation and that is that the €36 million in the governments hands would probably end up being closer to €200 million by the time you take in the multiple layers of government red tape and public sector workers.
You`d have multiple levels of clerical staff,management,social workers,care workers etc etc before one "client" was ever looked after so instead of 875 staff being paid €36 million you`d probably have 2000 staff being paid at public sector rates.

This is the absolute truth, there's a whole sector where careers are made of knowing what funding is going to be made available by whom and what project they need to put in place to hoover up that moolah. Everyones a winner but the actual tax payer who's money never makes a difference to the problem it was meant to address

Same people over and over

Richard Hillman

Stonedpilot wrote: »

So what?. Great oaks grow from small acorns hardly gonna solve the problem overnight are they?. Fair play to them no on willing to listen, make them!.

Alcohol and drugs are the single biggest factor on why people are sleeping rough. Then there are others sleeping rough because they don't want to be around the alcoholics and drug addicts in the hostels.

the_syco

Deleted User wrote: »

Whatever is happening on this thread, I just read something fantastic.

1,500 people have aapplied to volunteer.

Thats great.

How many of them deal drugs, have anger issues, and/or can't deescalate a problem junkie?

As every single homeless charity says; we don't want your help on xmas day, we want your help on the other 364 days. Also, training 1,500 people for one day, and then they all fcuk off?

20Cent wrote: »

If Jesus was to fly down from the sky surrounded by angels announcing peace on Earth forever some c**t would be posting on boards complaining about it.

We have mental asylums for this sort of people.

bazza1 wrote: »

Jesus isnt even Irish!:D

5 reasons why jesus was Irish;
1. He never got married.
2.He never held a steady job.
3. He went out drinking with the lads the night before he died.
4. His last request was a drink
5. He lived with his parents until he was 33.

Deleted User wrote: »

Apollo House is a “dry facility, and those entering are liable to be searched for drink or drugs. Security operates on the doors."

And it'll be the people on drugs/drink who'll probably die easier due to poor health, and/or not keeping themselves warm as they think they're fine (for example, the drink warms them up). And people will probably moan at the government for their deaths.

Hellrazer wrote: »

There is a very simple explanation and that is that the €36 million in the governments hands would probably end up being closer to €200 million by the time you take in the multiple layers of government red tape and public sector workers.
You`d have multiple levels of clerical staff,management,social workers,care workers etc etc before one "client" was ever looked after so instead of 875 staff being paid €36 million you`d probably have 2000 staff being paid at public sector rates.

The homeless section of SDCC does great work, but they don't have many staff, although when I was last there (working, not homeless), there was other organisations in the building as well. The staff there do alot of work behind the scenes, and liaise with the various charities.

Hellrazer

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There wasn't one family on the streets so you're whole point is mute.

On the streets--living in a ****ty one room hotel room.They are still "homeless"

And there is people sleeping rough in every country in the world.

And the point is??
Im talking about Ireland here.

So why in Ireland in 2016 should there not be someone sleeping rough?

Because the resources are there to keep people off the streets but this revolving government that are the exact same every single election regardless of what party is in power does nothing for the lower echelons of society while they pay themselves and their ilk a fortune to sit on their arses and look after their cronies.

It wouldn't even take that much funding to sort out the homeless crisis in this country. All it takes is for someone in government to grow a pair and sort it out.

The waiting list for houses is a joke..One of the biggest reasons for families being in hotels is because it apparently takes 8-10 weeks and upwards for a house to be "ready or prepared" for the next family.

You know what ready is??Stripping the house back to its original state regardless of whether the previous tenant upgraded the heating,windows,flooring etc....that level of red tape is ridiculous and is just keeping the carpenters,electricians and tradesmen employed by the various councils in jobs that realistically shouldn't be there as lifetime jobs while families are staying in hotels waiting for a job that should take days to take months instead.

I'm not saying it's right but tell me why Ireland is unique to other countries in it should have solved the homeless issue?

Its not unique.But it is where I live and honestly is something that I care about.Im not really interested in other countries homeless situation to be totally honest.

Hellrazer

the_syco wrote: »

The homeless section of SDCC does great work, but they don't have many staff, although when I was last there (working, not homeless), there was other organisations in the building as well. The staff there do alot of work behind the scenes, and liaise with the various charities.

Im not disputing that they do great work but I can guarantee you that the people in SDCC homeless section are being paid a hell of a lot more than someone that works in Focus or PMV for doing a lot less work.

Now imagine that there was no Focus or Peter McVery and everything homeless related went through the various councils.The bill of 35 million for wages would be at least 5-7 times that figure.

irish bloke

If people don't want to live on the street, they really do have a choice.
There is nothing stopping them getting the dole and rent alowence and prioritising a roof over their head.

Thousands of people do it, why can't they?

For Forks Sake

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Or is it just another case of slacktivism in action where people click and think that's their contribution to society made for the day??

Probably like the 44% of people who said they would house a Syrian refugee thistime last year. How's that working out.

As per my earlier post, I'm now seeing people on FB checking in to Apollo House similar to the Standing Rock thing a few weeks back.

Dear idiots, ask yourself what has this action done to better the lives of Dublins homeless?? :rolleyes:

JP Liz V1

irish bloke wrote: »

If people don't want to live on the street, they really do have a choice.
There is nothing stopping them getting the dole and rent alowence and prioritising a roof over their head.

Thousands of people do it, why can't they?

A lot of landlords don't accept rent allowance

thebsharp

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Bravo.

But I am certain that there is some existential point you have totally failed to understand here. :cool:

But I am sure someone will come along and explain it all for us.

(There is no explanation IMV, but I bet someone has one just the same!)

The reason it could make sense is because of the multiplier effect;
You give a charity 34, they raise 100, pay themselves 36, but a nett of 64 is going towards fixing the problem instead of the original 34 at no extra cost to the government. Other costs involved but that's the general principle.

In addition, Gov. spend our hard earned tax on other things knowing that we'll also spend our money after tax on charity donations!

Just checked one of their accounts and they only get a fraction in donations of their gov. funding! That model works for some charities I've seen the accounts of but evidenty not all

donkeykong5

irish bloke wrote: »

If people don't want to live on the street, they really do have a choice.
There is nothing stopping them getting the dole and rent alowence and prioritising a roof over their head.

Thousands of people do it, why can't they?

There is also the option of getting a bloody job. !!!!

goose2005

Cdosrun wrote: »

Did anyone post here who was/is homeless.?

People don't seem to understand it from their point even those who claim they work with them.
Calling them clients rather than people is enough for me to know it is run like business for profit for those who run it.

They call them clients or service users because what other term would they use, povvers?

corner of hells

Cdosrun wrote: »

Did anyone post here who was/is homeless.?

People don't seem to understand it from their point even those who claim they work with them.
Calling them clients rather than people is enough for me to know it is run like business for profit for those who run it.

There are many threads here about scumbags in town now think
if you had to share a small room with two of them for the night or
stay out all night.
You leave the room to take a wee and take all your stuff with you,
come back and guy1 is guffing off (gone into junkie zombie mode) and blood on his bed guy 2
is angry about a lad down stairs and shouting about how he is
going to kill the lad.

If you don't drink or take drugs these pleases would drive you to it.

I work in homeless services .I call the residents where I work by thier names on a one to one basis .

On a professional capacity, it's residents or service user.It's no big deal.

You're last two paragraphs don't make sense.

oneilla

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

A lot of landlords don't accept rent allowance

It's nigh on impossible to rent when unemployed - priced out and the stigma of unemployment makes it worse.

mahoganygas

Hellrazer wrote:

It wouldn't even take that much funding to sort out the homeless crisis in this country. All it takes is for someone in government to grow a pair and sort it out.

This is beyond naive.

I could house every homeless person in Ireland within a week. Just buy a house for them all overnight with gov funds and just like that, homlessness is eradicated.

But what happens next week?
Has the cause of homlessness been addressed?

Have I just created an incentive for people to declare themselves homeless, show up at a shelter and wait for the keys of their new house?

Glen Hansard invites everyone for a sing along.

Ah come on, you have to laugh. I mean, surely he himself knows it's like a parody of all those "lovely person plays guitar to homeless guy" videos.

Wheeliebin30

Hellrazer wrote: »

On the streets--living in a ****ty one room hotel room.They are still "homeless"


And the point is??
Im talking about Ireland here.



Because the resources are there to keep people off the streets but this revolving government that are the exact same every single election regardless of what party is in power does nothing for the lower echelons of society while they pay themselves and their ilk a fortune to sit on their arses and look after their cronies.

It wouldn't even take that much funding to sort out the homeless crisis in this country. All it takes is for someone in government to grow a pair and sort it out.

The waiting list for houses is a joke..One of the biggest reasons for families being in hotels is because it apparently takes 8-10 weeks and upwards for a house to be "ready or prepared" for the next family.

You know what ready is??Stripping the house back to its original state regardless of whether the previous tenant upgraded the heating,windows,flooring etc....that level of red tape is ridiculous and is just keeping the carpenters,electricians and tradesmen employed by the various councils in jobs that realistically shouldn't be there as lifetime jobs while families are staying in hotels waiting for a job that should take days to take months instead.



Its not unique.But it is where I live and honestly is something that I care about.Im not really interested in other countries homeless situation to be totally honest.

So are people who rent a ****ty 1 bed apartment or flat homeless now?

Hotel room/1 bed flat are the same to me.

20Cent

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So are people who rent a ****ty 1 bed apartment or flat homeless now?

Hotel room/1 bed flat are the same to me.

Hotel rooms don't have cooking facilities, often don't have a fridge.

david75

It's a awful pity yis are too busy having all the answers to everything on boards.
Would yis not come out into the real world and share your endless wisdoms with us all?