Occupy Nama: City property taken over to house homeless

Wanderer78

its very disturbing reading some of the posts here about homelessness. we truly have a long way to go with explaining mental health problems and the potential effects of these complex problems on individuals and society in general. its been great to see the explosion in media coverage about these issues but obviously some things arent getting through yet

padd b1975

Berserker wrote: »

We could have guessed most of those names. Wonder how many of them are willing to put some actual money towards buying the property and donating it to charity. Bet most, if not all of them, wouldn't be as forthcoming if it came to that.

Now there's a question!

The usual celebrity fudge answer when awkward queries like that need answering is that they are giving their time freely.

Goya

Wanderer78 wrote: »

They are absolutely right, it really is a flick of a pen to get this started, as that's how one of the most critical ingredients of this problem is created, I.e. money

They said a flick of a pen would solve the issue, not get the solution started. It would do neither - this is a very complex issue and simplifying cheapens it, whatever direction it comes from; whether it's "Shur can't they just go to homeless shelters" or "This is all the government's fault - they could solve it in an instant."

These kinds of proclamations are not helpful. The government is giving money to local authorities for housing resources. It's not enjoying people being homeless.

But there are people in steady employment being exploited by greed because they simply cannot afford to pay the rent, there are also people whose mental illness, addiction and traumatic experiences have damaged them to the point that they strangely choose to sleep rough (how this is the government's fault is beyond me), there are people who are too afraid to stay in hostels because of intimidating elements, there are people who take the piss themselves too and expect the state to house them - in a hotel until a house or flat is provided. With regard to the needy, help is on offer but some folk are too disenfranchised to take it - it's nobody's fault.

I like to think idle buildings will be converted to housing stock - I don't know if this is a panacea but it doesn't make sense for them to be left unused. Everyone has to contribute towards their housing though - nothing is for free.

What I do know is: those of us who don't have this worry should thank our lucky stars and give money to/volunteer at Focus Ireland/Simon instead of "Waaaa, it's the government's fault - someone else should do something?!"

Wanderer78

Flimpson wrote: »

They said a flick of a pen would solve the issue, not get the solution started. It would do neither - this is a very complex issue and simplifying cheapens it, whatever direction it comes from; whether it's "Shur can't they just go to homeless shelters" or "This is all the government's fault - they could solve it in an instant."

These kinds of proclamations are not helpful. The government is giving money to local authorities for housing resources. It's not enjoying people being homeless.

But there are people in steady employment being exploited by greed because they simply cannot afford to pay the rent, there are also people whose mental illness, addiction and traumatic experiences have damaged them to the point that they strangely choose to sleep rough (how this is the government's fault is beyond me), there are people who are too afraid to stay in hostels because of intimidating elements, there are people who take the piss themselves too and expect the state to house them - in a hotel until a house or flat is provided. With regard to the needy, help is on offer but some folk are too disenfranchised to take it - it's nobody's fault.

I like to think idle buildings will be converted to housing stock - I don't know if this is a panacea but it doesn't make sense for them to be left unused. Everyone has to contribute towards their housing though - nothing is for free.

What I do know is: those of us who don't have this worry should thank our lucky stars and give money to/volunteer at Focus Ireland/Simon instead of "Waaaa, it's the government's fault - someone else should do something?!"

you d be shocked at how much can changed at the flick of a pen, the majority of money is created this way, it really is as simple as that. our politicians have been sold a pup, they really have, and they are lost, but this isnt just a problem here in ireland, its global. this eventually will crash our global economy.

Widdershins

Interesting idea. How will it work out?
It remains to be seen..

Do squatters rights still exist and is it still a minimum of 12 years?

Wheeliebin30

Widdershins wrote: »

Interesting idea. How will it work out?
It remains to be seen..

Do squatters rights still exist and is it still a minimum of 12 years?

Squatters rights never existed in Ireland.

Arcade_Tryer

hmmm wrote: »

The news today is full of people wanting to dip into the working persons pockets. We spend vast sums on the homeless charity industry already, we're spending enough - someone must be making an awful lot of money out of it.

Why do you think the charities exist ffs? It's merely covering up the giant cracks in the housing and rental market.

jackofalltrades

Kh1993 wrote: »

They're not staying out on the streets because they want to.

I know someone that used to work for a drug treatment centre.
She was regularly told to "**** off" when she offered help to homeless people around the building that she worked in.
They're are people who choose to sleep on the streets because staying in a house could mean that they have to confront their issues.

Maybe some groups like AAA or Ogle etc will of course benefit from publicity, but that's a by-product of things like this.

It's not a by-product, it's the main reason.
The government have recently opened two new homeless shelters and have plans to open a third.
This has even been acknowledged by the protesters.
Are any of them HETAS engineers, qualified electricians, social workers or drug and alcohol treatment specialists amongst these occupiers?
Are these musicians going to intervene if a fight kicks off between these residents?

Richard Hillman

The place will turn into a drugs den when the Slebs get bored and go home, leaving a few fool hardy volunteers.

And as a previous poster has said, this has a large scale fire written all over it.

The Government are better off doing what they do best, do nothing, but emphasise the fact that the beds are already there.

For Forks Sake

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The place will turn into a drugs den when the Slebs get bored and go home, leaving a few fool hardy volunteers.

And as a previous poster has said, this has a large scale fire written all over it.

The Government are better off doing what they do best, do nothing, but emphasise the fact that the beds are already there.

Or Dublins largest crackhouse.

Oodoov

Some sickening views on here. Not that it makes a difference but around Xmas as well.

Gatling

Oodoov wrote: »

Some sickening views on here. Not that it makes a difference but around Xmas as well.

Desperate stuff nothing like a bit of faux outrage to go with lunch

Wheeliebin30

Loveinapril wrote: »

As someone who has worked in homeless services for years, I have a huge amount of concern for how this place will be ran. Are there trained qualified people drawing up policies and procedures? Volunteers are fantastic, but only when they are informed and have experience in the field. People need training in addiction, how to manage chaotic behaviour, first aid, health and safety. The list goes on. Are they going to separate people depending on their substance issue or lack thereof. If not, the liklihood of a non addicted person staying in a chaotic place like that is unlikely. They may feel safer on the streets- which is the reason a lot of people sleep rough.

Finally someone talking sense.

These celebs will get their 5 mins at least.

NIMAN

Just to clarify something, this place that has been occupied, is it for those sleeping on the streets or the homeless? Because they are 2 different things according to stats.

If its for rough sleepers, we have already been told there is a bed for anyone who is sleeping rough who wants it.

If its for those waiting on a house, are people going to leave a hotel to go into a shell of a building?

Help!!!!

padd b1975 wrote: »

Reads like a who's who of insufferable gobsh1tes.

They can't even get pisssed while they're there what with Christy Moore and his issues with the old alkeyhol.

All they need is Liam Cunningham to come down to claim it for the " refugees "

punisher5112

Oodoov wrote: »

Some sickening views on here. Not that it makes a difference but around Xmas as well.

Its Christmas not the other

trellheim

As soon as I saw Brendan Ogle "I'm out" ....

Loveinapril

Loveinapril wrote: »

As someone who has worked in homeless services for years, I have a huge amount of concern for how this place will be ran. Are there trained qualified people drawing up policies and procedures? Volunteers are fantastic, but only when they are informed and have experience in the field. People need training in addiction, mental health, managing chaotic behaviour, de- escalation techniques, first aid, health and safety. The list goes on. Are they going to separate people depending on their substance issue or lack thereof. If not, the liklihood of a non addicted person staying in a chaotic place like that is low. They may feel safer on the streets- which is the reason a lot of people sleep rough.

There are indeed social workers involved. This has taken months of planning.

For Forks Sake

Loveinapril wrote: »

As someone who has worked in homeless services for years, I have a huge amount of concern for how this place will be ran. Are there trained qualified people drawing up policies and procedures? Volunteers are fantastic, but only when they are informed and have experience in the field. People need training in addiction, mental health, managing chaotic behaviour, de- escalation techniques, first aid, health and safety. The list goes on. Are they going to separate people depending on their substance issue or lack thereof. If not, the liklihood of a non addicted person staying in a chaotic place like that is low. They may feel safer on the streets- which is the reason a lot of people sleep rough.

You're not the only one with concerns: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/fr-mcverry-i-applaud-apollo-house-sit-in-but-its-not-the-solution-to-homelessness-768980.html

This is a populist stunt by populist people (and those Eirigi c*nts) without any forethought as to how it will play out beyond the initial round of headlines and facebook likes.

Gatling

Loveinapril wrote: »

Dean Scurry from Home Sweet Homw says it all started 5 weeks ago after he saw a Facebook video of a homeless man suggesting a NAMA building be used as accommodation.

Now that's interesting

david75

Can I point out eirigi aren't officially part of this and are once again piggy backing and having the opposite effect as in Turning people off helping.


The project has now raised €50k

People's imaginations and sense of good has been sparked.

david75

Gatling wrote: »

Now that's interesting

I heard about the same about two weeks ago. This wasn't a random impulse decision. Borne out by their video. They've had meetings about this.

gctest50

Loveinapril wrote: »

The idea comes from a great place. We are all compassionate to the personal stories of homeless people. But I really don't think any of the organisers know what it looks like to have a load of vulnerable/ addicted/ mentally unwell individuals in one place at the one time. In my experience, rough sleepers (the ones earmarked for these beds) tend to be more chaotic due to addiction and or mental health. The people who work with them have to be well trained and qualified (and therefore, well paid- which I don't begrudge at all) to manage the behaviours and environment effectively. I worry that well meaning volunteers will become overwhelmed and drop off one by one until the place becomes a giant squat.

Loveinapril wrote: »

I worry that well meaning volunteers will become overwhelmed and drop off one by one until the place becomes a giant squat.

It could be like Freetown Christiana

http://bit.ly/1pzSj4o



Freetown Christiania is a green and car-free neighbourhood in Copenhagen, best known for its autonomous inhabitants’ different way of life. It was established in 1971 by a group of hippies who occupied some abandoned military barracks on the site and developed their own set of society rules, completely independent of the Danish government.

Christiania existed under special conditions for 40 years with constant conflicts and clashes between the local Christianites and the Danish state. After many years of uncertainty about the future of Christiania, an agreement was entered in 2011, which meant that on 1 July 2012, a foundation, the Foundation Freetown Christiania, was founded.

Alf Stewart.

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Why do you think the charities exist ffs? It's merely covering up the giant cracks in the housing and rental market.

The homeless charities (a good portion of them) are big business money machines, out to line their own pockets, and have crafted the term "homelessness"' into a a finely tuned, fiercely competitive and tterritorial business.

Here is figures from the McVerry Trust and Focus.

Dublin Simon, the Peter McVerry Trust, Depaul Ireland and Focus Ireland received a total of €33.6 million in grants from State agencies in 2014, but spent €35.8 million on staff costs for on the 875 people they employed in 2014 (the last year for which complete figures are available for all).

So we the tax payer threw them just shy of 34'million. And.they spent almost 36 million on salaries and wages on their own employees.

Do the maths.

Dyr

trellheim wrote: »

As soon as I saw Brendan Ogle "I'm out" ....

Why, were you thinking of getting involved until then?

Were you f**k.

Alf Stewart.

Bambi wrote: »

Why, were you thinking of getting involved until then?

Were you f**k.

gctest50

Loveinapril wrote: »

You do the maths. The staff who are employed are often qualified professionals who worked hard to get paid a decent wage. I work for a charity, it doesn't mean I am going to do it for free- I studied for years to get where I am. I want that to be recognised, even if I am a person in the caring sector. I still have bills to pay. The organisations need accountants to keep track of the finances. They need HR to employ and maintain staffing. They need marketing and fundraising departments to keep the organisations in the news so they can get more money to fund more services. The charities then have to pay to upskill and train their staff. They pay for the upkeep and maintenance of their properties, gas, electricity, IT department, phone lines, etc. The CEOs get loads of money (sometimes too much) because they are qualified and experienced and have worked to get where they are. I don't think that the CEO of a charity should earn less than a CEO of a company just because it is a charity. We all do our jobs to earn a living.

That Freetown place seems to have got on ok, without parasites

not without it's ups and downs though :

900 ish people there, land sold to them for about 12m


Metalwork shop :

http://bit.ly/2gMTbhH


http://imgur.com/6sNszAc


http://www.buzzfeed.com/emmyf/why-you-need-to-visit-christiania-before-you-die



.

Dyr

Loveinapril wrote: »

You do the maths. The staff who are employed are often qualified professionals who worked hard to get paid a decent wage. I work for a charity, it doesn't mean I am going to do it for free- I studied for years to get where I am. I want that to be recognised, even if I am a person in the caring sector. I still have bills to pay. The organisations need accountants to keep track of the finances. They need HR to employ and maintain staffing. They need marketing and fundraising departments to keep the organisations in the news so they can get more money to fund more services. The charities then have to pay to upskill and train their staff. They pay for the upkeep and maintenance of their properties, gas, electricity, IT department, phone lines, etc. The CEOs get loads of money (sometimes too much) because they are qualified and experienced and have worked to get where they are. I don't think that the CEO of a charity should earn less than a CEO of a company just because it is a charity. We all do our jobs to earn a living.

By your own admission, the charity/professional sector hostels cost a fortune to run and often the homeless still feel safer on the streets

Seems odd to be having a go at the amateurs

david75

We could easily heat apollo house with all the hot air in this thread.


Shut up complaining oand do something. If it fails then you can complain. Keyboard know it alls as usual.

Alf Stewart.

Loveinapril wrote: »

You do the maths. The staff who are employed are often qualified professionals who worked hard to get paid a decent wage. I work for a charity, it doesn't mean I am going to do it for free- I studied for years to get where I am. I want that to be recognised, even if I am a person in the caring sector. I still have bills to pay. The organisations need accountants to keep track of the finances. They need HR to employ and maintain staffing. They need marketing and fundraising departments to keep the organisations in the news so they can get more money to fund more services. The charities then have to pay to upskill and train their staff. They pay for the upkeep and maintenance of their properties, gas, electricity, IT department, phone lines, etc. The CEOs get loads of money (sometimes too much) because they are qualified and experienced and have worked to get where they are. I don't think that the CEO of a charity should earn less than a CEO of a company just because it is a charity. We all do our jobs to earn a living.

Point has went over your head.

If the govt have 34 million to throw at homeless charities, who pay their wages with the money, why don't they just use it to provide some social housing?

(And I'm certainly no right wing FG-head)

There's money being wasted and squandered while we have the biggest housing crisis in the history of the state.