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Roommate 'ordered' me to move out

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    #32
    GlobalSun
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭GlobalSun


    In my 10 years of sharing (college, abroad, out of college ...), I have never encountered an issue with any roommates. I usually get along really well with them (even the sloppiest ones or the most OCD ones). I once had a roommate who was also my landlord had never did we have a single issue. I also lived in an apartment where the landlord would come every month to change the linen set, and she was extremely happy to have me renew the lease because she'd never seen the place so clean.

    And suddenly, now that I am sharing with a couple for the first time in my life, you're going to tell me I'm the issue?

    I'm barely home anyway.

    I've never set rules in my life, ever. I will never do so. But it is apparent from the couple's behavior that they assume the property is theirs. You can notice how I never 'complained' about the fourth tenant. That's because he is fine. He does his fair share of cleaning, doesn't slam doors, didn't care when I mentionned the heating to him and most importantly, talks to people with respect.

    The other two? I had told them about the heating and the girlfriend one day comes up to me and says: You have to seek our agreement first before using it. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

    As for the emails, I only sent two in the course of 6 months, which I believe is nowhete near unreasonable.


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Exactly how long were the emails? I'm guessing quite long and most likely would have rubbed people up the wrong way with their level of detail.

    I think you should just leave OP- you're putting too much energy into trying to show you are right- you may well be, but I don't think anyone in your house appears to care

    Mod edit: it's bad enough to quote one lengthy post but multiples, not on. A large percentage of our users are on mobile devices and lengthy quotes make it extremely difficult for them. Quotes (all from the OP) snipped.


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    #34
    GlobalSun
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭GlobalSun


    I hope you do realize you cannot compare posts on a forum where I'm trying to explain a situation from A to Z, to mere emails sent to address two points.

    The first email was quite short to be fair. Probably 5 sentences of so.

    The second email was a bit longer, because I had to elaborate on the heating since I noticed something was off. Indeed, I was told that I'd be the only one using the heating since they don't need it (supposedly). Yet, many times when I came home at night, the heating was on. Hence, it pained me because since I agreed to pay the extra amount and they'd split theirs equally, I didn't want to be paying for someone else's consumption. In my eyes, they were not fully honest about it.

    As I said, I only sent two emails in the course of 6 months. It's not unreasonable and certainly do not justify evicting someone over.

    If you cannot send two emails to your roommates without fearing drastic measures such as eviction, there is a serious problem. It's not how grow people behave.

    I will leave. I actually had started looking for places way before this 'eviction' happened. I could not take it anymore.


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    #35
    doc11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭doc11


    Email should be short and sweet, perhaps you could reply to your "eviction" notice with this. God I love to see there faces



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    #36
    GlobalSun
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭GlobalSun


    Haha, I would love to this! Priceless ...


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    #37
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,080 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    GlobalSun wrote: »
    I don't overestimate. The gourth fuy did the cleaning rotatively and I never complained about him or his habits once.

    The real problem comes from the couple who assume the property is theirs.
    If I see there's only him and I doing the cleaning, this is strange.
    You're missing the deeper point, which is that human relations are rife with subjective biases.

    You think they're the arseholes, and they think you are. You might be right, but if you are right and they are arseholes then your only option (short of Machiavellian shennanigans) is to put up with it or leave.

    Is your plan to persuade them of their arseholery through reason or weight of evidence? Good luck with that.

    Alternatively, you could look on this situation as an experiment to develop your skills in human hacking.


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    #38
    GlobalSun
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭GlobalSun


    No, I will leave. Believe me, this idea has been on my mind since late October.

    Finding accomodation in Dublin can be tough, especially as I don't drive. This place was really convenient as the commute to work was easy. It however is not suitable for me.

    I'm not going to try to convince anyone of anything. They're too obtuce to realize their contribution towards this debacle.

    I didn't even reply to his unnecessarily derogatory and insulting email. I'll move out at my own pace, no rush.


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    #39
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    If your so sure of your rights why did you ask the question on here?


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    #40
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Where did you get the 24 hours notice from?
    Have always been led to believe that a licensee can be asked to leave with "reasonable notice", but without a minimum time frame.

    If I'm wrong, cool. But I can't find what "reasonable" is meant to mean.
    GlobalSun wrote: »
    I'm not a licensee.
    GlobalSun wrote: »
    About 6 months ago, I moved into an apartment with 3 other people. The landlord registered me as tenant, but only 1 person is on the lease.
    So I assume you have signed a lease from your landlord?


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    #41
    Skommando
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭Skommando


    doc11 wrote: »
    Email should be short and sweet, perhaps you could reply to your "eviction" notice with this. God I love to see there faces


    You've two choices, leave and find something better / more normal, or email this video and go full mental from now until the time they leave.


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    #42
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    you don't have to move out. You have part 4 rights now the same as the others there. But not a great situation to be in. I don't know maybe talk to the other tenant who agrees with you and put the idiot in his place. Living with a couple can be hard, living with someone who does not respect his housemates is another thing altogether.


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    #43
    GlobalSun
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭GlobalSun


    The one I get along with was apparently also in on it, despite him agreeing with me.

    Thanks, that's what I thought. I'm not a licensee. If the landlord himself tells you, you are a tenant, you are a tenant.

    This idiot told me: You are simply an occupant in the house. In case he didn't realize, an occupant is not a legal status and the equivalent is a tenant or lessee. As far as I know, he's a lessee too, not a landlord. Hence, we have similar rights.

    He thinks his piece of paper is giving me the same rights as a landlord. I will reach out to the RTB tomorrow, to see how I can proceed to get my deposit back and put him in his place at the same time.


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    GlobalSun wrote: »

    He thinks his piece of paper is giving me the same rights as a landlord. I will reach out to the RTB tomorrow, to see how I can proceed to get my deposit back and put him in his place at the same time.

    This is a dispute between you and a housemate, the RTB have nothing to do with this.


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    #45
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    GlobalSun wrote: »
    The one I get along with was apparently also in on it, despite him agreeing with me.

    Thanks, that's what I thought. I'm not a licensee. If the landlord himself tells you, you are a tenant, you are a tenant.

    This idiot told me: You are simply an occupant in the house. In case he didn't realize, an occupant is not a legal status and the equivalent is a tenant or lessee. As far as I know, he's a lessee too, not a landlord. Hence, we have similar rights.

    He thinks his piece of paper is giving me the same rights as a landlord. I will reach out to the RTB tomorrow, to see how I can proceed to get my deposit back and put him in his place at the same time.

    Shouldn't you be asking for your deposit back from the LL? I'm not sure that the RTB have the remit to settle arguments between housemates about who puts out the rubbish. It really doesn't matter what the housemate thinks you are, it's what your relationship is with the LL that matters, if you have a tenancy agreement with the Ll and you pay rent to the LL, then you are a tenant.

    Edit: sorry op, when you posted that LL had confirmed you are a tenant, I assumed you had a written rental agreement.


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    #46
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    GlobalSun wrote: »
    I'm not a licensee. If the landlord himself tells you, you are a tenant, you are a tenant.

    Not necessarily. A lot of landlords are ignorant of the distinction between tenant and licensee.


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    #47
    GlobalSun
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭GlobalSun


    Nicolas Important Grave wrote: »
    This is a dispute between you and a housemate, the RTB have nothing to do with this.

    I know.

    However, the RTB may allow me to understand my rights with regards to his 'notice of termination'.


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    #48
    GlobalSun
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭GlobalSun


    davo10 wrote: »
    Shouldn't you be asking for your deposit back from the LL? I'm not sure that the RTB have the remit to settle arguments between housemates about who puts out the rubbish. It really doesn't matter what the housemate thinks you are, it's what your relationship is with the LL that matters, if you have a tenancy agreement with the Ll and you pay rent to the LL, then you are a tenant.

    Edit: sorry op, when you posted that LL had confirmed you are a tenant, I assumed you had a written rental agreement.

    Yes, I do pay my rent to the landlord directly who told me: 'You have been added to the tenancy for this property'.

    I have not signed a rental agreement. I requested to sign one to my 'lessee' roommate who then proceeded directly to the 'not-so-notice of termination'.

    As far as the RTB goes, I will not be seeking their advice on how to resolve the situation with my housemate. I will simply ask the extent of my rights, his rights in this situation. If they cannot provide me with an answer, I will link in with the landlord.


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    #49
    Parchment
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭Parchment


    doc11 wrote: »
    Meh, People don't like being told what to do. Emailing flatmates! do you not see them during the day? To be honest having someone email me demands about cleaning and heating would annoy me too. Wonder what the fourth person thinks

    Its smart to have a paper trail for these things.


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    #50
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    GlobalSun wrote: »
    Yes, I do pay my rent to the landlord directly who told me: 'You have been added to the tenancy for this property'.

    I have not signed a rental agreement. I requested to sign one to my 'lessee' roommate who then proceeded directly to the 'not-so-notice of termination'.

    As far as the RTB goes, I will not be seeking their advice on how to resolve the situation with my housemate. I will simply ask the extent of my rights, his rights in this situation. If they cannot provide me with an answer, I will link in with the landlord.

    If you are a licensee, then you should remind your flat mate that he will be responcible for covering the full rental cost per month when you move out, when you explain to the LL what has happened, no doubt the LL will be reminding him of same.


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    #51
    doc11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭doc11


    davo10 wrote: »
    If you are a licensee, then you should remind your flat mate that he will be responcible for covering the full rental cost per month when you move out, when you explain to the LL what has happened, no doubt the LL will be reminding him of same.

    If in dublin they'll have no problem getting a replacement quickly. Sure the OP has been looking for a month for a place.


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    #52
    cruais
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭cruais


    Regardless of who is right or wrong, I would just move on. Living in those conditions cannot be good for your mind and body!


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    #53
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    the_syco wrote: »
    Have always been led to believe that a licensee can be asked to leave with "reasonable notice", but without a minimum time frame.

    ?

    So you made up the 24 hours then?


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    #54
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    So you made up the 24 hours then?
    Although a week is generally seen as reasonable, it sounds like the housemate could make up some BS to only give 24 hours notice to the OP.


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    #55
    GlobalSun
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭GlobalSun


    the_syco wrote: »
    Although a week is generally seen as reasonable, it sounds like the housemate could make up some BS to only give 24 hours notice to the OP.

    "A week is seen as reasonable". That's not how the law works. I'm sure there is a proper notice time somewhere. I've never seen any statute or precedent stating such vague termination notice. You seem to be making this up.

    I have been renting for 6 months, the statutory notice is 4 weeks. Do you really think I'm going to believe everything he says without checking my rights?

    Especially as I am now under Part 4, he and I avail of the same rights. It's just the rental agreement that is in his name. He is just abtensnt/lessee. I'm not paying my rent to him, subletting or subject to a contractual agreement with him. He assumes he is legally entitled to evict me because this idiot thinks a piece of paper gives him power. He knows nothing about Part 4 tenancy or eviction notices.

    I'll give my notice to the landlord not to him. Why? Because in case they cannot find another tenant, they will hold liable for leaving without a proper notice. I'm thinking he's trying to push me to leave with this notice, to cover his butt by claiming I didn't give sufficient notice and have me paid for the room while it's vacant.

    I'm on the verge of dropping the keys there and leave overnight once I've secured a room. Screw the deposit which I know I won't get back.


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    #56
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    the_syco wrote: »
    Although a week is generally seen as reasonable, it sounds like the housemate could make up some BS to only give 24 hours notice to the OP.

    You obviously do not know what you are talking about. Where are you getting the week from?


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    #57
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    @GlobalSun it sounds to me like your housemate wants to give your place in the house to someone they know and the only way they can do this is to get you to leave.

    You seem to have a proper tenancy and all the rights that go with that so the housemate has no right to issue you any kind of termination!

    Have you contacted the landlord to let them know what is going on in the house and maybe ask if they might know why the housemate is telling lies about you and trying to get you to leave?


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    #58
    GlobalSun
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭GlobalSun


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    @GlobalSun it sounds to me like your housemate wants to give your place in the house to someone they know and the only way they can do this is to get you to leave.

    You seem to have a proper tenancy and all the rights that go with that so the housemate has no right to issue you any kind of termination!

    Have you contacted the landlord to let them know what is going on in the house and maybe ask if they might know why the housemate is telling lies about you and trying to get you to leave?

    It crossed my mind. I think the other guy wants to have his gf move in. Hence, the fact he's in on it despite me having no problem with him.

    I will contact the LL tomorrow. He might put him in his place.


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    #59
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    I don't think it matters that much who is right and wrong here OP.

    The fact is that relations with your housemates have soured (for whatever reason) and the atmosphere is now toxic.

    That won't change regardless so the only thing to do is to move on/out.

    Best of luck.


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    #60
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    GlobalSun wrote: »
    Especially as I am now under Part 4, he and I avail of the same rights. It's just the rental agreement that is in his name. He is just abtensnt/lessee. I'm not paying my rent to him, subletting or subject to a contractual agreement with him. He assumes he is legally entitled to evict me because this idiot thinks a piece of paper gives him power. He knows nothing about Part 4 tenancy or eviction notices.
    Thanks for clarifying that. Regarding the bit I bolded, use it against him.
    GlobalSun wrote: »
    I'm on the verge of dropping the keys there and leave overnight once I've secured a room. Screw the deposit which I know I won't get back.
    With that in mind, if you get a place, you've gotten nothing to lose by calling the pretend landlords bluff, and saying you'll move if you get the deposit within two days. Don't mention you've gotten a place; just say you're moving back home. No point showing him all your cards.


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