Eurovision Song Contest 2017

snowflaker

Go Harvey Go wrote: »

You could argue Lordi were a "freak" act... yet they won.

You could argue Conchita was a "freak" act... yet (s)he won too.

And they didn't win just because they were "freak" acts... they won because they had brilliant songs. "Hard Rock Hallelujah" is undoubtedly one of the best Eurovision songs of the 21st century.

Lordi was a complete public vote (largely- we were jury we gave them 0)

Then they went back to Jury. (plus public)

Conchita had a great song

snowflaker

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Well, that's simply not true. Eurovision has millions of fans who follow the news and updates all year round, it's not just a one week a year event. Furthermore, a lot of countries take it extremely seriously and have full blown selection processes which takes weeks at a time. They often send their biggest stars, where partaking in Eurovision is seen as a huge honour and a chance to show off the best of what that country has to offer. It's only really seen as a joke from bitter countries like Ireland and Britain who have regressed hugely and choose to sulk rather than try and evolve with the competition. So to sum up my point, most countries take it seriously.

Regarding Dustin, I actually supported sending him at the time, because why the hell not :pac: It was the height of bloc voting, Eastern Europe had, for a while, taken over the voting and made the show highly predictable and deeply unfair. Not that anyone really cared, but it was a huge middle finger to the competition and at the time I think it reflected our mood pretty well. I wouldn't send an act like that again, but I don't regret that Ireland sent it either.

Bloc voting is, and was a myth. Some countries like Cyprus and Greece do it, but its not done en masse.

Remember when Germany always gave Isreal a high mark...

Murrisk

Can anyone answer a Eurovision question for me?

The UK oftens seems to end up finishing quite low in the competition, often lower than Ireland. But I don't recall ever seeing them have to first compete in the semi-final. Is this the case or is my memory failing me? And if this is the case, how does the UK escape the semi-final round?

freshpopcorn

Murrisk wrote: »

Can anyone answer a Eurovision question for me?

The UK oftens seems to end up finishing quite low in the competition, often lower than Ireland. But I don't recall ever seeing them have to first compete in the semi-final. Is this the case or is my memory failing me? And if this is the case, how does the UK escape the semi-final round?

France, Spain, Germany, Italy and UK put the most money into it so they qualify automatically!

Murrisk

freshpopcorn wrote: »

France, Spain, Germany, Italy and UK put the most money into it so they qualify automatically!

It's kind of bullshit, isn't it? And yet the UK still can't manage a win.

Caoimhgh1n

Murrisk wrote: »

It's kind of bullshit, isn't it? And yet the UK still can't manage a win.

Since the Big 4, now Big 5 were introduced, only one of the countries managed to win. Germany in 2010.

Murrisk

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Since the Big 4, now Big 5 were introduced, only one of the countries managed to win. Germany in 2010.

I wonder is there analysis in these countries about continuing to fund the thing?

freshpopcorn

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Since the Big 4, now Big 5 were introduced, only one of the countries managed to win. Germany in 2010.

To the best of my knowledge that's the only time any of them really deserved to win.

Caoimhgh1n

freshpopcorn wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge that's the only time any of them really deserved to win.

Some people will argue Italy winning the televote in 2015 etc, but I pretty much agree.

Thank God Italy didn't win this year, it was awful.

Caoimhgh1n

Murrisk wrote: »

I wonder is there analysis in these countries about continuing to fund the thing?

I believe it is the amount the country pays to the EBU, not the actual contest itself. I may be wrong, I'm sure someone will tell you for sure.

snowflaker

I think the Big 5 are at a disadvantage by not being in the semis now.

daisybelle2008

Pleased with result and especially Moldova, only sorry didn't put a little more on the e/w...

Caoimhgh1n

snowflaker wrote: »

I think the Big 5 are at a disadvantage by not being in the semis now.

There isn't much point really, you're gonna come last if your song isn't up to scratch anyway (Spain this year, Germany 2016 and 2015....).

You may as well qualify, you will if your song is good enough.

neverever1

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Well, that's simply not true. Eurovision has millions of fans who follow the news and updates all year round, it's not just a one week a year event. Furthermore, a lot of countries take it extremely seriously and have full blown selection processes which takes weeks at a time. They often send their biggest stars, where partaking in Eurovision is seen as a huge honour and a chance to show off the best of what that country has to offer. It's only really seen as a joke from bitter countries like Ireland and Britain who have regressed hugely and choose to sulk rather than try and evolve with the competition. So to sum up my point, most countries take it seriously.

Regarding Dustin, I actually supported sending him at the time, because why the hell not :pac: It was the height of bloc voting, Eastern Europe had, for a while, taken over the voting and made the show highly predictable and deeply unfair. Not that anyone really cared, but it was a huge middle finger to the competition and at the time I think it reflected our mood pretty well. I wouldn't send an act like that again, but I don't regret that Ireland sent it either.

I think you take it too seriously, also professional eurovision people that are on RTE all the time take it too seriously. Other countries have similar sort of people.

neverever1

Go Harvey Go wrote: »

You could argue Lordi were a "freak" act... yet they won.

You could argue Conchita was a "freak" act... yet (s)he won too.

And they didn't win just because they were "freak" acts... they won because they had brilliant songs. "Hard Rock Hallelujah" is undoubtedly one of the best Eurovision songs of the 21st century.

That's my point, it doesn't really matter who wins, it's all a bit of craic.

yerwanthere123

snowflaker wrote: »

Bloc voting is, and was a myth. Some countries like Cyprus and Greece do it, but its not done en masse.

Remember when Germany always gave Isreal a high mark...

Well um... no, not it's not a myth. In fact even the most basic analysis of the voting patterns will tell you that former Yugoslav countries award each other the most points regardless of the song quality, same goes for Scandinavian countries and ex USSR countries. It's why the jury voting was brought back, to make it more of a level playing field.

neverever1 wrote: »

I think you take it too seriously, also professional eurovision people that are on RTE all the time take it too seriously. Other countries have similar sort of people.

I'm not entirely sure how me calling you out on some basic untruths you wrote equates to me "taking it too seriously", but ok.

snowflaker

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Well um... no, not it's not a myth. In fact even the most basic analysis of the voting patterns will tell you that former Yugoslav countries award each other the most points regardless of the song quality, same goes for Scandinavian countries and ex USSR countries. It's why the jury voting was brought back, to make it more of a level playing field.



I'm not entirely sure how me calling you out on some basic untruths you wrote equates to me "taking it too seriously", but ok.

The jury was brought back in because of Lordi- no one won the contest because of bloc voting tbf

yerwanthere123

snowflaker wrote: »

The jury was brought back in because of Lordi- no one won the contest because of bloc voting tbf

Whoever said that it was brought back in because of Lordi?

And Russia won in 2008 because of bloc voting, six of their seven 12's came from ex-USSR countries. It's patently obvious that song would not have won if it represented, say, France.

Murrisk

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Well um... no, not it's not a myth. In fact even the most basic analysis of the voting patterns will tell you that former Yugoslav countries award each other the most points regardless of the song quality, same goes for Scandinavian countries and ex USSR countries. It's why the jury voting was brought back, to make it more of a level playing field.

This does happen BUT I still think the cream rises to the top anyway. Even if countries give their neighbours the 10s and 12s, the best songs will still consistently be getting 6s, 8s and higher throughout so I just don't think it really matters. No these days anyway with so many countries. I think it was more of an issue when there were much fewer countries participating.

With Russia in 2008, I still think that wouldn't have swung it for them alone. Seven 12s might not mean anything if everywhere else is giving you no points or very low points. They must have been getting good marks outside the bloc too. A country getting consistent 8s and 10s and a couple of 12s would probably have beaten them otherwise.

Robsweezie

im glad blanche took fourth for belgium, must be a good confidence boost for her. it was a good song. you could hear the nerves in her voice in the semis, so was lucky she didnt have too many high notes.

Woodville56

I've said it before in this forum but 2 days on from Eurovision , this is the song I still remember most - didn't get past the semi finals but the Czech entry sure surpasses some of the offerings on final night, even some of the "big 5" automatic qualifiers, perhaps the staging etc was a bit iffy but the song itself and Martina Bårta's delivery was endearing . Still happy enough for Portugal though, equally enjoyed Belgium's Blanche

https://youtu.be/4yuwhUx35Uc

fryup

the start of the belguim song reminds me of a recent chart hit, and its annoying me..anyone know it??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SznlioGhq2k

Robsweezie

fryup wrote:

the start of the belguim song reminds me of a recent chart hit, and its annoying me..anyone know it??

Lorde green light?

hmmm

I think it's fair to say that certain blocs are at an advantage (Nordics, E. Europe, Russian bloc). It's also fair to say that very good songs can still win irrespective of which country they are from. We're likely to see a cycle of bloc winner with mediocre songs, intermixed with the occasional very good song winning from a non-bloc country. Either way we will still get yodelrap and epic sax guy, and people should relax tf.

fryup

Robsweezie wrote: »

Lorde green light?

no not that

snowflaker

The Netherlands stuck in my head aaargh

murpho999

hmmm wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that certain blocs are at an advantage (Nordics, E. Europe, Russian bloc). It's also fair to say that very good songs can still win irrespective of which country they are from. We're likely to see a cycle of bloc winner with mediocre songs, intermixed with the occasional very good song winning from a non-bloc country. Either way we will still get yodelrap and epic sax guy, and people should relax tf.

I don't agree with this block thing at all.

What East European block for example?

Why would Poland vote for Czech Republic or Slovakia? They just happen to be neighbours, just like ourselves and the UK.

The Parish Priest.

Why does that gimp Nicky Byrne give the Irish results every year now ? It it part of his RTE contract ?

neverever1

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Well um... no, not it's not a myth. In fact even the most basic analysis of the voting patterns will tell you that former Yugoslav countries award each other the most points regardless of the song quality, same goes for Scandinavian countries and ex USSR countries. It's why the jury voting was brought back, to make it more of a level playing field.



I'm not entirely sure how me calling you out on some basic untruths you wrote equates to me "taking it too seriously", but ok.

What untruths?

I'm just going on your comments here, you seem to be getting worked up over the ins and outs of it all!

CeilingFly

hmmm wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that certain blocs are at an advantage (Nordics, E. Europe, Russian bloc). It's also fair to say that very good songs can still win irrespective of which country they are from. We're likely to see a cycle of bloc winner with mediocre songs, intermixed with the occasional very good song winning from a non-bloc country. Either way we will still get yodelrap and epic sax guy, and people should relax tf.

This "Bloc" argument is ridiculous. With 43 countries voting (42 this year due to Russia withdrawal) it would make no difference if it did exist. And even then the televoting only counts to 50% of votes.

What you do have, and its been around since the start, is countries with a large emigrant population from a particular country will see better televoting results for those countries because many of their citizens live there. So for Ireland, - Poland, Romania, Latvia & Lithuania will always do well on the televoting.

Likewise Ireland would have always done well from UK voters because 600,000 Irish peope live there.

There will always be the exception - Greece & Cyprus