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What exactly is "attack the post, not the poster"????

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  • 17-12-2016 9:16pm
    #1
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭


    All of these clearly express an opinion about the poster, not the post they are making. Why are they expressly approved by the Politics moderators?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101999016&postcount=1025
    marienbad wrote:
    Did I annoy you by any chance
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101997483&postcount=993
    oscarBravo wrote:
    If I say "it's not about resources", and someone replies that of course it's about resources, they're not trying to help me "develop my views" (there's a nice patronising sentiment); they're just refusing to accept that the conclusion they jumped to is wrong.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101997608&postcount=995
    oscarBravo wrote:
    My views didn't change. I offered a second image with precisely the same underlying message, but without the opportunity for pendants to seize upon some irrelevant aspect like box-counting, and with helpful captions in case they still managed to miss the point.

    So, in a sense, I learned something: when you're having a conversation with people who are threatened by the point you're making, you have to go to great lengths not to give them an excuse to tell you that you were making a different point all along. Which is a pretty depressing lesson, to be honest.

    Is somebody going to pretend to me these aren't "attacking the poster"? Calling people "upset" and calling other people's opinions "bollox" also seems to be approved of (depending on who you are of course...). Quotes also available for those.
    Is this normal here?
    Post edited by Shield on


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    #2
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Have a look in Politics and see what exactly is fine to post if your are perceived as right wing or left wing.


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    #3
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    DeadHand wrote: »
    The composition of the army of mods here is neither reflective of Irish society nor (more importantly) the user base.
    Well it's very reflective of the users if they ban everybody for nothing or for doing exactly what the lefties are being allowed to do, isn't it?


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    #4
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    An File wrote: »
    If you keep acting like a spoiled brat
    And that's supposed to refute a bullying accusation?!?!


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    #5
    The Hill Billy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,775 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    They are examples of how people discuss things. They are not attackng the poster.

    "You're a bollix!" = Attacking the poster.
    "Did I annoy you?" = By no stretch of the imagination is that attacking the poster.

    Seriously?


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    #6
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    The Hill Billy wrote: »
    They are examples of how people discuss things. They are not attackng the poster.

    "You're a bollix!" = Attacking the poster.
    "Did I annoy you?" = By no stretch of the imagination is that attacking the poster.

    Seriously?
    Are you being serious? Asking people are they upset, or talking about "having a conversation with people who are threatened" isn't attacking the poster? They mention and comment on the poster explicitly.
    Have I made you sad and defensive and upset with this post?
    I think your opinion is bollox by the way.


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    #7
    The Hill Billy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,775 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    Mentioning & commenting on a poster does not equate to attacking them.
    osmiumartist wrote:
    I think your opinion is bollox by the way.
    You really need to work on your debating style. Based on this gem, it is not up to the standard that we expect of our members.


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    #8
    The Hill Billy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,775 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    Well it's very reflective of the users if they ban everybody for nothing or for doing exactly what the lefties are being allowed to do, isn't it?

    @osmiumartist - Rather than make vague references to alleged moderator abuse of power, if you have an issue with a mod action against yourself - take it to Dispute Resolution.

    tHB


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    #9
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    The Hill Billy wrote: »
    You really need to work on your debating style. Based on this gem, it is not up to the standard that we expect of our members.
    Really? It's up to the standard you expect from your own moderators, so obviously you're just making up your standards as you go along.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101973420&postcount=800
    oscarBravo wrote:
    As for claiming that any view that disagrees with them is racist, misogynistic, homophobic - bollox.
    And yes, I reported it. Twice.
    So by your own moderation standards calling an opinion bollox is perfectly acceptable.
    What next, "it has been dealt with" a.k.a. we gave him a gold star and pat on the back?
    The bias here is nauseating.


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    #10
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    The Hill Billy wrote: »
    @osmiumartist - Rather than make vague references to alleged moderator abuse of power, if you have an issue with a mod action against yourself - take it to Dispute Resolution.

    tHB
    I have an issue with biased mods letting their mates off calling people upset and calling opinions "bollox" while dishing me up a ban for "pal".
    And you know full well that Dispute Resolution is 100% geared to make it impossible to deal with this easily proven moderator bias. If people call you upset and your opinion bollox and the moderators turn a blind eye there's basically no way whatsoever to "report" that. How convenient.
    So, nah, won't be wasting my time with that thanks.

    And there was absolutely nothing vague about it. I even quoted the bloody thing! How the hell can that be "vague"?!?!


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    #11
    Confused mum84
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭Confused mum84


    What's the point of boards if you can't express an opinion & debate openly !! Talk about PC overload ! Snowflake generation !!


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    #12
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Confused mum84 wrote: »
    What's the point of boards if you can't express an opinion & debate openly !! Talk about PC overload ! Snowflake generation !!
    That would be such a great response... if I hadn't been banned myself for using the word "pal".
    So who's the snowflake here exactly?


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    #13
    maregal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭maregal


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    Have a look in Politics and see what exactly is fine to post if your are perceived as right wing or left wing.

    The Politics Cafe is great in my opinion. The mod is a dyed in the wool Leftie, which is fine once he doesn't ban others who disagree with him. Many lively debates are to be had there and it's my favourite part of Boards. Compare this to the past when it was Shinnerbot central and populated with student union types worshiping Castro, whose sole purpose was to get offended by differing opinions.

    It seems to be in the Irish national psyche to complain, but credit where it's due. Boards has definitely improved from a more relaxed moderation style. I wonder has this been reflected in activity on the site/page views?


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    #14
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Confused mum84 wrote: »
    What's the point of boards if you can't express an opinion & debate openly !! Talk about PC overload ! Snowflake generation !!

    Are you aware of the legal framework under which Boards.ie operates? Are you familiar with the libel laws of this great land?

    Are you aware who can end up in court should a libelous statement be made on this site about a person or organization?

    It's not PC, it's protecting the site.

    You can debate openly as long as you are respectful and courteous to others and adhere to the law.


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    #15
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,726 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    The whole system is rigged against you specifically.

    So the best thing to do is use a feedback thread to launch a collateral attack against the mod/ban.

    Because the DRP is part of the system that's rigged against you specifically.


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    #16
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    The whole system is rigged against you specifically.

    So the best thing to do is use a feedback thread to launch a collateral attack against the mod/ban.

    Because the DRP is part of the system that's rigged against you specifically.
    Why are you lying? I never said anything about it being rigged against me specifically. You just completely made that up. It's rigged against exposing biased moderation.
    The only question is why you would want to lie about what my complaint was? Something to do with strawmanning and deflection perhaps?

    Hint: Maybe tone done the sark and actually read the mail you're pretending to respond to?


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    #17
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    Are you aware of the legal framework under which Boards.ie operates? Are you familiar with the libel laws of this great land?

    Are you aware who can end up in court should a libelous statement be made on this site about a person or organization?

    It's not PC, it's protecting the site.

    You can debate openly as long as you are respectful and courteous to others and adhere to the law.
    Utter drivel. Stop trying to drag us off into some irrelevant legal responsibility twaddle.
    This is about some posters being allowed to call opinions "bollox" and call other posters "upset" or comment about other posters (not their opinions) with impunity, and this being very, very, clear proof of moderator bias.
    No side-tracking and strawmanning please.


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    #18
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Whether you like it or not, any posting on this site must conform to the laws of the country and the etiquette of the site.

    Simple as that.


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    #19
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    maregal wrote: »
    It seems to be in the Irish national psyche to complain, but credit where it's due. Boards has definitely improved from a more relaxed moderation style. I wonder has this been reflected in activity on the site/page views?
    It may be more relaxed. I don't know. The problem is there's still easily identifiable agenda led moderation, where one side (particularly if their names are in bold...) can post any abuse or insults they like while the other "side" will get pulled up for innocuous garbage like calling someone "pal".


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    #20
    Tom Mann Centuria
    Registered Users Posts: 11,002 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    Why are you lying? I never said anything about it being rigged against me specifically. You just completely made that up. It's rigged against exposing biased moderation.
    The only question is why you would want to lie about what my complaint was? Something to do with strawmanning and deflection perhaps?

    Hint: Maybe tone done the sark and actually read the mail you're pretending to respond to?

    The variety of feedback threads you have posted on certainly read like you feel issues are affecting you more than most.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



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    #21
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    Whether you like it or not, any posting on this site must conform to the laws of the country and the etiquette of the site.

    Simple as that.
    Whether you like it or not, grass is green and the sky is blue.
    So what?
    AGAIN: what has the legal responsibilities of boards.ie got to do with the instances of biased moderation I have detailed above? Where's the connection?


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    #22
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    "Attack the post not the poster" simply put is a way of silencing people with certain viewpoints which contradict boards approved viewpoints and agendas when they are goaded by people who support boards approved viewpoints and agendas.

    All day long you will see people who lean one way allowed to attack, insult, denigrate and insinuate about posters who lean the other way.

    As soon as the aggrieved poster replies in kind they will be zapped but the poster and posts that started it will magically remain. It's as if there was tacit approval of certain agendas!

    It's up there with the mod fatwa "you may only discuss X in proX terms and regards to the benefits of X".


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    #23
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »
    The variety of feedback threads you have posted on certainly read like you feel issues are affecting you more than most.
    In other words you can't actually refute any of the examples of clear moderation bias I have posted? Nice deflection anyway. If there's a complaint always make it out to be a personal issue and never analyse the allegation itself under any circumstances.
    You've learned from the masters.

    PS: PMs would indicate that pretty much everybody on one side of the debate in Politics agrees with me. I don't blame them for keeping their heads down mind.


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    #24
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    what has the legal responsibilities of boards.ie got to do with the instances of biased moderation I have detailed above? Where's the connection?

    I was addressing a question by another poster as to why you cannot say what you want.

    So we've done to death the biased moderating allegations, yet here we are again.

    If you don't like the way the site is moderated, do us all a favour and find yourself a site where you agree with the rules and can be as aggressive and confrontational as you want. Nobody's forcing you to post here.

    Simples.


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    #25
    Tom Mann Centuria
    Registered Users Posts: 11,002 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    In other words you can't actually refute any of the examples of clear moderation bias I have posted? Nice deflection anyway. If there's a complaint always make it out to be a personal issue and never analyse the allegation itself under any circumstances.
    You've learned from the masters.

    Haha ok, no idea how your crusade has anything to do with closed account tag lines, that this thread is about, but I wish you good luck righting the apparent wrongs you've found.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



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    #26
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    I was addressing a question by another poster as to why you cannot say what you want.

    So we've done to death the biased moderating allegations, yet here we are again.

    If you don't like the way the site is moderated, do us all a favour and find yourself a site where you agree with the rules and can be as aggressive and confrontational as you want. Nobody's forcing you to post here.

    Simples.
    Nope, he was talking about moderation. Not a thing about legal issues until you waded in.
    Again: Deflect. Make it out to be a personal problem. Under no circumstances EVER analyse the evidence presented in any way.
    I'm pretty well aware I don't have to post here. Thanks for stating the blindingly obvious.
    It's all pretty, ya know, predictable? Do you have a list of bullet points with deflections/distractions/strawmen to work through on the boards.ie office wall or something for when this comes up?

    EDIT: Waiting for the "you've prejudged the outcome" post here. Because that really disproves the bias doesn't it!


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    #27
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    I was addressing a question by another poster as to why you cannot say what you want.

    So we've done to death the biased moderating allegations, yet here we are again.

    If you don't like the way the site is moderated, do us all a favour and find yourself a site where you agree with the rules and can be as aggressive and confrontational as you want. Nobody's forcing you to post here.

    Simples.

    Here we have a perfect example of insinuating about a poster.

    Poster wants even handed application of the rules. Really obvious. How many more have asked for the same.

    Response? Told he's "aggressive and confrontational" or wants to be allowed to be, and is told to eff right off.

    Classic.


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    #28
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    All day long you will see people who lean one way allowed to attack, insult, denigrate and insinuate about posters who lean the other way.

    As soon as the aggrieved poster replies in kind they will be zapped but the poster and posts that started it will magically remain. It's as if there was tacit approval of certain agendas!
    Here's a mod warning that 100% proves this:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101980404&postcount=833
    K-9 wrote:
    Mod:
    If a post is below standard please report it and we'll look at it. Do not reply in kind, thank you.
    So let me get this straight, his post was "below standard" by the mod's own admission, but when I reply "in kind" I get a warning? Why the hell doesn't he get a warning if his post is the same as mine? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!


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    #29
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »
    Haha ok, no idea how your crusade has anything to do with closed account tag lines, that this thread is about, but I wish you good luck righting the apparent wrongs you've found.
    No comment on content whatsoever. Adios.


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    #30
    The Hill Billy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,775 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    As your posts across several Feedback threads all seem to relate to a single issue I have moved all related posts to this thread.

    Do not post in any other Feedback thread apart from this one for 1 week.

    tHB


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    #31
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    The Hill Billy wrote: »
    As your posts across several Feedback threads all seem to relate to a single issue I have moved all related posts to this thread.

    Do not post in any other Feedback thread apart from this one for 1 week.

    tHB
    How disingenuous. You've also taken this opportunity to delete some of them which didn't relate to "this issue".
    The bullying one had nothing to do with this topic and you well know it. Why did you decide to delete that one and seemingly pretend it was moved here?
    Moving on to silent moderation now I see. Classy.

    Edit: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101999516&postcount=92
    My response to this post was deleted. It consisted of IIRC "And this is supposed to refute an allegation of bullying?". Clearly nothing to do with this topic and deleted by The Hill Billy for convenience hoping nobody would notice.


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