Don't you just hate it when someone who has never owned an EV comes on here...

Water John

There is a point in what you say. The opener is a sort of leading question.
I don't mind people expressing reluctance. If I was doing any long distance, even on occasions, I would be reluctant to change and have no qualms in expressing those views.
BTW I have retained the 2nd car in the family which not alone is an ICE but a diesel. I promise to change, but like any sinner, not just yet.

Charging at public points is free ATM. Plug in at home is simply on your house electricity, many have night rate. This works out at less than €3.

glomar

curiosity thought , has anybody factored in the cost of a battery replacement later down the line ? I cant see most of these vehicles making the 10 - 12 year age due to the financial cost of battery replacements . I think the tesla might be unique in its cost replacements but my understanding is that a leaf battery is in the region of 5 - 6k am I correct in saying this ?

isnottheword

KCross has called it correctly. For some, driving the right EV at the right price point means you're on to a winner. The guy mentioned zero depreciation - there's no such thing! Cars (EV or ICE) have to be one of the most rapidly depreciating asset classes that exist! As regards him saying that he's paying €10/week on petrol, he's hardly using the car - why not get a bike! I'm saving €160/month thanks to guys like you Skommando - so thank you for rubbishing EV's (You're not just claiming that EV's don't work for your circumstances but you're generalising).

You say that when all the bugs, etc are worked out of EV's, then you'll make the switch. That's fine - but understand that every government will tax the hell out of electricity to make up for what will be a massive shortfall in fuel and road taxes at that point. You won't have to put up with some of the inconveniences we do currently - but don't expect to make financial savings - as that won't be happening....and if we all end up with micro-gen (eg. solar panels, etc.) to power cars, they will simply increase other taxes instead to account for the shortfall.

Water John

At present that would be a bout the price. A couple of other factors to consider.
Price will drop, technology will improve, probably very significantly, the old batteries have a residual value for electric storage.

I think battery technology will be a big game changer. Was researching latest battery tech for another purpose. The range of research is remarkable. Surely a few will make it through to full production.

Field east

KCross wrote: »

That has already happened, you just need to buy 2nd hand.

Buying any new car you suffer massive depreciation. EV just suffers an extra 10% or so for now but buy 2nd hand and the savings are substantial over ICE.

These posts are all about " should I or should I not buy an EV? " apart from the various levels of "praise" being exchanged between some posters. Ah yes, I've just realised that it is the season of good will.

Two points that may be worth injecting into the discussion:-
(1) A new EV starts off with the battery being able to deliver at 100% of its rated capacity. So it would be important to know what capacity is left in the battery as a new battery can cost up to €3500 when a replacement is needed

(2) A related matter is that a battery at 100 % cap will allow , for example, 100 Km to be covered. But when the capacity is only at 50% on your fully charged battery you can now only cover 😂50Km.

Am not claiming to be an expert on the above so any comments are welcome

TanFlash

EVs are the job, no noisey engine, great torque.

However, here's a sweeping statement: majority of owners are tight as a ducks arse.

me_right_one

Water John wrote: »

Charging at public points is free ATM. Plug in at home is simply on your house electricity, many have night rate. This works out at less than €3.

:eek::eek::eek:

How is this being paid for? And how will it go whenever they decide to make it not free anymore??

I was thinking of getting an EV. At the moment I drive a diesel, e100 gets me 450-500 miles. How far does a e3 charge get you, and is that a full charge?

isnottheword

glomar wrote: »

curiosity thought , has anybody factored in the cost of a battery replacement later down the line ? I cant see most of these vehicles making the 10 - 12 year age due to the financial cost of battery replacements . I think the tesla might be unique in its cost replacements but my understanding is that a leaf battery is in the region of 5 - 6k am I correct in saying this ?

You're quite right - this has to be factored in. In the case of the Leaf, they're talking in terms of a design life of 10 years. I'm open to correction but I think current battery replacement cost is €4-5K. There's a independent third party service provider in Worcester who will recondition batteries (to 90% minimum) for £1500. That's still expensive - but over time, the hope would be that these figures will continue to drop. That has been the gamble I've taken - I won't know until a couple of years when I hit that point (as I do higher than average mileage). That said - worse case scenario - I'm banking current savings at a rate of €160/month whilst charging remains free. If fees for charging is held back for a few more months, I'd have the price of a battery refurb. Bear in mind also that there's damn all maintenance involved with these cars. I was spending savage cash per annum in engine related servicing.

isnottheword

Field east wrote: »

Two points that may be worth injecting into the discussion:-
(1) A new EV starts off with the battery being able to deliver at 100% of its rated capacity. So it would be important to know what capacity is left in the battery as a new battery can cost up to €3500 when a replacement is needed

(2) A related matter is that a battery at 100 % cap will allow , for example, 100 Km to be covered. But when the capacity is only at 50% on your fully charged battery you can now only cover 😂50Km.

See my previous post in response to another poster ref. battery degradation. Of course, that has to be factored in to the buying decision. EV's are not for everyone right now. However, you can determine whether one is or not suitable for your usage - whilst factoring in battery degradation.

TanFlash wrote:

However, here's a sweeping statement: majority of owners are tight as a ducks arse.

From your point of view, you see this as a group of owners as 'tight as a ducks arse'. To me, I see this as a group of owners who are savvy with their cash. You wont embarrass me with that - only yourself if that's your mindset.
That said, not all EV owners have based their purchase purely on financial grounds - some are simply early adopters and fans of new tech (I've bought a 3 year old Leaf so can't really claim to be a true early adopter) or for environmental reasons.

monkeysnapper

I've been one of the nerds that's been following the leaf coming to the market since 2010 and fell in love instantly but at present still driving my Citroen c4 , it has about 2 years left in it .

I was talking to guys in work about electric cars being future and they all looked at me like I had six heads on me .

I changed jobs 2 years ago and now live 1 mile from my work place, hell I cycle there in summer .

I admit I kind of stopped looking at cars for last 2 years and only this weekend had a look on done deal ......wow the price of a second hand leaf has really come down !!!!

KCross

TanFlash wrote: »

EVs are the job, no noisey engine, great torque.

However, here's a sweeping statement: majority of owners are tight as a ducks arse.

Sweeping for sure!
How many do you know?

Skommando

isnottheword wrote: »

The guy mentioned zero depreciation - there's no such thing! Cars (EV or ICE) have to be one of the most rapidly depreciating asset classes that exist!

I bought 3 years ago for 900e they sell today on done deal for about 1000e
Immaculate low mileage reliable popular easy to sell jap car.

isnottheword wrote: »

As regards him saying that he's paying €10/week on petrol, he's hardly using the car - why not get a bike!

I use it daily for work, 15 mile round trip, in all weather conditions and for passengers and equipment. I'd like to see any bike do that.

isnottheword wrote: »

I'm saving €160/month thanks to guys like you Skommando

Like me how ? Unlike you, I don't care what others drive.

isnottheword wrote: »

- so thank you for rubbishing EV's (You're not just claiming that EV's don't work for your circumstances but you're generalising).

Where have I said that, quite the opposite. EVs don't work for my specific circumstances, despite being told here that they would without even knowing my circumstances. Now who's generalising ?

isnottheword wrote: »

You say that when all the bugs, etc are worked out of EV's, then you'll make the switch. That's fine - but understand that every government will tax the hell out of electricity to make up for what will be a massive shortfall in fuel and road taxes at that point. You won't have to put up with some of the inconveniences we do currently - but don't expect to make financial savings - as that won't be happening....and if we all end up with micro-gen (eg. solar panels, etc.) to power cars, they will simply increase other taxes instead to account for the shortfall.

So in other words they are not the be all and end all for the future some people would have you believe ?
Grand, I'll be just as happy not to use EV's so.

Water John

Was wondering why I felt constipated.

isnottheword

Skommando wrote: »

I bought 3 years ago for 900e they sell today on done deal for about 1000e
Immaculate low mileage reliable jap car.

Well, aren't you quite the dellboy :P Everyone accepts that generally, cars (EV or ICE) are a rapidly depreciating asset class. So someone underpriced whatever it was they sold to you maybe because (given the pricepoint you're talking about), they just wanted rid of it.

Skommando wrote: »

I use it daily for work, 15 mile round trip, in all weather conditions and for passengers and equipment. I'd like to see any bike do that.

I have work colleagues that do that distance on a bike - commuting to work - albeit that I accept it wouldn't be for me either. I do 80 mile roundtrip in my Leaf.

Skommando wrote: »

Like me how ? Unlike you, I don't care what others drive.

I guess the point was lost on you. EV take-up has been slow. The slower take-up remains, the longer free (or cheap) charging, no vrt and other incentives will stay in place. I'm not saying you are actively bringing this about - but you are passively - so thank you :-)

Skommando wrote: »

Where have I said that, quite the opposite. EVs don't work for my specific circumstances, despite being told here that they would without even knowing my circumstances. Now who's generalising ?

You are - see you're very first post in this thread.

Skommando wrote: »

So in other words they are not the be all and end all some people would have you believe ?
Grand, I'll be just as happy not to use EV's so.

Yes, 'some' are evangelic about EV's - but most people that post here are pragmatic. Otherwise, thanks once again for deciding against EV use - it means I'm likely to save €160/month on fuel a bit longer (before servicing savings of course).

Skommando

isnottheword wrote: »

Well, aren't you quite the dellboy :P Everyone accepts that generally, cars (EV or ICE) are a rapidly depreciating asset class. So someone underpriced whatever it was they sold to you maybe because (given the pricepoint you're talking about), they just wanted rid of it.

Nope, that was the market price then and now. Good reliable low mileage cheap popular jap car, and very easy to sell on when I want to.

isnottheword wrote: »

I have work colleagues that do that distance on a bike - commuting to work

How do they do it with equipment and passengers ? I know people that cycle hundreds of miles on bicycles, still can see how that's a relevant argument for buying EV's ?

isnottheword wrote: »

I guess the point was lost on you.

There wasn't one.

isnottheword wrote: »

EV take-up has been slow. The slower take-up remains, the longer free (or cheap) charging, no vrt and other incentives will stay in place. I'm not saying you are actively bringing this about - but you are passively - so thank you :-)

why would I pay more to buy and run an ev ?

isnottheword wrote: »

Yes, 'some' are evangelic about EV's - but most people that post here are pragmatic. Otherwise, thanks once again for deciding against EV use - it means I'm likely to save €160/month on fuel a bit longer (before servicing savings of course).

Again you'll have to explain why I would pay more to buy and run an ev ?

isnottheword

I wont waste any more of my time. According to Skommando, ICE's APPRECIATE in value. When you have someone who comes to that conclusion, there is no more point in debating anything else that he's brought up.

Thanks again. :-)

Skommando

isnottheword wrote: »

I wont waste any more of my time. According to Skommando, ICE's APPRECIATE in value. When you have someone who comes to that conclusion, there is no more point in debating anything else that he's brought up.

I suppose if all else fails you can fail to answer the questions and pretend what I posted.

isnottheword

Skommando wrote: »

I suppose if all else fails you can fail to answer he questions and pretend what I posted.

I'm not pretending anything fella. You stated that your ICE accumulated value over 3 years. Is your last name Buffett, first name Warren?


Skate on by in your ICE.

Skommando

isnottheword wrote: »

I'm not pretending anything fella. You stated that your ICE accumulated value over 3 years. Is your last name Buffett, first name Warren?


Skate on by in your ICE.

Nope roughly the same as I paid for it, people advertise and sell cars at slightly different prices all the time.

Care to answer any questions you were asked instead of making up what I posted ?

isnottheword

Skommando wrote: »

Nope roughly the same as I paid for it, people advertise and sell cars at slightly different prices all the time.

Care to answer any questions you were asked instead of making up what I posted ?

Ah, so we have gone from an appreciating asset to one that remains at parity. Changing your story - and it's still bullshít. The example that you provide is a one-off. All cars depreciate rapidly. If they didn't, we would all invest in cars rather than place it in stocks, stock options, savings accounts, etc.

KCross

Skommando wrote: »

I bought 3 years ago for 900e they sell today on done deal for about 1000e
Immaculate low mileage reliable popular easy to sell jap car.

I think that's the very definition of bangernomics and with the mileage you are doing you are definitely better off with ICE.

The cheapest Leaf is probably still €5k so even with high depreciation it's a long way from your price point.

Skommando

Skommando wrote: »

I'll be moving to it when/if it becomes cheaper overall than traditional car ownership and becomes mainstream.

KCross wrote: »

That has already happened, you just need to buy 2nd hand.

KCross wrote: »

I think that's the very definition of bangernomics and with the mileage you are doing you are definitely better off with ICE.

The cheapest Leaf is probably still €5k so even with high depreciation it's a long way from your price point.

I could buy a brand new leaf or second hand one in the morning if I wanted to, but it makes no economic sense to me.

That brings us back the fact, that contrary to what was claimed, an ev is going to cost me a lot more to own and run.

Skommando

isnottheword wrote: »

Ah, so we have gone from an appreciating asset to one that remains at parity. Changing your story - and it's still bullshít. The example that you provide is a one-off. All cars depreciate rapidly. If they didn't, we would all invest in cars rather than place it in stocks, stock options, savings accounts, etc.

Nope roughly the same as I paid for it, people advertise and sell cars at slightly different prices all the time.

Care to answer any questions you were asked instead of making up what I posted ?

isnottheword

Skommando wrote: »

Nope roughly the same as I paid for it, people advertise and sell cars at slightly different prices all the time.

Care to answer any questions you were asked instead of making up what I posted ?

That's not what you wrote - go back and read what you've written. And no, based on this single point alone and the drivel you keep coming back with on it, I have no appetite to expend any more energy on your theories.

Bottom line - you stated in black and white that your car is worth more than it was when you bought it 3 years ago. You then back tracked and stated that it's at a parity price-point 3 years later. In one of your first posts on this thread, you aluded generally to ICE with no depreciation.

As regards what suits your purposes, I agree with KCross. However, this is not a bespoke discussion for your specific personal circumstances - there are others here also ....but then, perhaps the OP may have you in mind (given the thread title)...who knows...

Skommando

isnottheword wrote: »

That's not what you wrote - go back and read what you've written. And no, based on this single point alone and the drivel you keep coming back with on it, I have no appetite to expend any more energy on your theories.

Bottom line - you stated in black and white that your car is worth more than it was when you bought it 3 years ago. You then back tracked and stated that it's at a parity price-point 3 years later. In one of your first posts on this thread, you aluded generally to ICE with no depreciation.

As regards what suits your purposes, I agree with KCross. However, this is not a bespoke discussion for your specific personal circumstances - there are others here also ....but then, perhaps the OP may have you in mind (given the thread title)...who knows...

Nope roughly the same as I paid for it, people advertise and sell cars at slightly different prices all the time.

Care to answer any questions you were asked instead of making up what I posted ?

If you can't and can only make repeated personal derogatory remarks, I'm afraid that says more about you, and your lack of any decent facts or arguments.

KCross

Skommando wrote: »

I could buy a brand new leaf or second hand one in the morning if I wanted to, but it makes no economic sense to me.

That brings us back the fact, that contrary to what was claimed, an ev is going to cost me a lot more to own and run.

No argument on that point. No EV has depreciated to your level yet so definitely stick with ICE.

DrPhilG

Skommando wrote: »

Care to answer any questions you were asked instead of making up what I posted ?

Genuine, question here...

WTF?

You keep attacking people and accusing them of telling you that you should buy an EV even though myself and others have said that they wouldn't suit you.

Now you've developed a stutter regarding the quote above and keep getting all arsey about people throwing personal insults, (which I haven't seen yet).

I think I'll bow out, and others should do the same.

Skommando

DrPhilG wrote: »

Genuine, question here...

WTF?

You keep attacking people and accusing them of telling you that you should buy an EV even though myself and others have said that they wouldn't suit you.

Now you've developed a stutter regarding the quote above and keep getting all arsey about people throwing personal insults, (which I haven't seen yet).

I think I'll bow out, and others should do the same. If not a troll, then he may have issues.

more personal remarks, cursing and name calling ? - I'm afraid that says more about you than me.

I simply posted that I'll be moving to an ev when/if it becomes cheaper overall than traditional car ownership and becomes mainstream.

I was then told it is already, and I should buy a used ev.

KCross

At €10/wk EV will never pay you financially until they get to bangernomics level which is a few years away. You want a long range EV so that's even further away to us not to mind bangernomics level.

However, there are other reasons to buy EV as well so it depends on what you value them at. Maybe zero value to you, it's a personal decision

Torque, emissions, remote heating would be some highlights for me.

Skommando

KCross wrote: »

At €10/wk EV will never pay you financially until they get to bangernomics level which is a few years away. You want a long range EV so that's even further away to us not to mind bangernomics level.

However, there are other reasons to buy EV as well so it depends on what you value them at. Maybe zero value to you, it's a personal decision

Torque, emissions, remote heating would be some highlights for me.

indeed, wear well and health to enjoy it.