Getting stronger getting older

Alf Veedersane

Are you having a laugh? 6 days after you tested and PR'd, you tested again?

Did you think your CNS would be tricked by calling it an official test? Lol

Go back and build on the new foundations and test in a couple of months.

Deano7788

You are mad.

Dtp1979

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? 6 days after you tested and PR'd, you tested again?

Did you think your CNS would be tricked by calling it an official test? Lol

Go back and build on the new foundations and test in a couple of months.

Yep, I can be stupid like that. The last PR wasn’t a test as such, it was a day when things felt right at that moment so I went for it. I thought with a bit of rest I’d have a go again. It’s paid off in the past, sometimes.
But point taken, and thanks, as always, for the advice.

Alf Veedersane

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yep, I can be stupid like that. The last PR wasn’t a test as such, it was a day when things felt right at that moment so I went for it. I thought with a bit of rest I’d have a go again. It’s paid off in the past, sometimes.
But point taken, and thanks, as always, for the advice.

Well, it was a test. You PR'd and missed a heavier attempt. So you maxed out. That's a test.

But I've done the exact same myself and it's never ended up being all that productive in the bigger picture. It just hampered recovery and so on. I'd feel good so just decide to test just because I was usually impatient and testing was exciting.

You had a big PR....sometimes you just have to bank them and know you have a solid foundation to get back to building on.

Put some structure down....pick a time in the future you want to test again - say 12 weeks - and then work towards that in structured blocks of training, each one building on the last. Then peak, taper and test.

Hey presto, new PRs.

Dtp1979

Thanks.
Yea I agree. RPE is coming 2019 so that’ll take a bit of getting used to.

Alf Veedersane

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Thanks.
Yea I agree. RPE is coming 2019 so that’ll take a bit of getting used to.

It does take getting used to but important thing is to remember it's a tool to manage fatigue and not get caught up in going heavier than last time.

If it's supposed to be @8 then be honest about what an @8 is. Again, guilty of kidding myself at the start

Dtp1979

Ok a little help please.

Let’s take day 1 squat for example.
If I do the first 2 sets for 8 reps, rate them at RPE 7 and the weight is 130kg. If I use 130kg for the last set chances are, 8 reps will be far more tiring and will be RPE 9 or higher. Should I make the call beforehand and drop the weight to what I feel would be RPE 7?

Dtp1979

Here. Having serious trouble uploading a pic.

Alf Veedersane

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ok a little help please.

Let’s take day 1 squat for example.
If I do the first 2 sets for 8 reps, rate them at RPE 7 and the weight is 130kg. If I use 130kg for the last set chances are, 8 reps will be far more tiring and will be RPE 9 or higher. Should I make the call beforehand and drop the weight to what I feel would be RPE 7?

If it's 3 sets of 8 at RPE 7 or 3 sets with 130kg at RPE 7?

If it's the former, then drop the weight so the last set is RPE 7.

If it's the latter, just do as many reps with 130kg until you hit the RPE 7 mark, which will likely be 5/6.

Dtp1979

Ok seems like boards can’t handle the sheer size of the pic.

It says
Day 1 back squat
7-9 reps / 67 to 72.5% 1RM / RPE 6 to 7

Edit. For 3 sets

Alf Veedersane

130kg is 76% of your 1RM, is it not?

Dtp1979

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

130kg is 76% of your 1RM, is it not?

Sorry, I was only using 130 as an example. 120kg is around 70%

Alf Veedersane

Well by your warm ups you'll know if you can get 72.5% for a set of 7-9 at RPE 7. You have room to drop back to 67% to get the other 2 sets in the range 7-9 at RPE 7

So say you start at 122.5kg (~72%) and get 9, you'd probably stick at the weight. Say you get 7 on the second set. Mayhe drop to 117.5kg and get 7-9 on last set.

Or if you didn't feel great and got 7 at 122.5, drop to 117.5 and just got 7, could drop to 115 for last set.

coffee_cake

My instructions were first set to match rpe

Last set is always rpe 10

That could be different to your instructions though

Alf Veedersane

bluewolf wrote: »

My instructions were first set to match rpe

Last set is always rpe 10

That could be different to your instructions though

Yeah, good point. There should be instructions to go with it really

Dtp1979

bluewolf wrote: »

My instructions were first set to match rpe

Last set is always rpe 10

That could be different to your instructions though

Why would it be 10 if your doing sets of RPE 6?

coffee_cake

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Why would it be 10 if your doing sets of RPE 6?

that was a small joke, but i was mostly trying to say the last set for me is always a much harder rpe

Dtp1979

bluewolf wrote: »

that was a small joke, but i was mostly trying to say the last set for me is always a much harder rpe

But if you were prescribed rpe 7 for 3 sets, would you yourself drop the weight on the final set, to get your RPE 7, instead of completing the reps at RPE 9?

coffee_cake

Dtp1979 wrote: »

But if you were prescribed rpe 7 for 3 sets, would you yourself drop the weight on the final set, to get your RPE 7, instead of completing the reps at RPE 9?

I'd ask them to be honest. is that an option. i missed if you were getting this program somewhere or was someone telling you to do it

Dtp1979

bluewolf wrote: »

I'd ask them to be honest. is that an option. i missed if you were getting this program somewhere or was someone telling you to do it

Just some random program online
https://rippedbody.com/intermediate-powerlifting-program/

Not that I’d consider myself intermediate, but it looks like it’d suit me

coffee_cake

since it gives %s i would stick with the same weight to be honest once you've chosen your first set, and check rpe against the first set not the last... unless set 2 is like rpe 10 then i would drop it.

it looks like from the bottom of that page the person is answering questions so it's worth a shot asking!


what this other person says:

implementing RPE. This is how a session of squats could be planned:
Day 1:
Squats 3×5 @8 RPE
Paused Squat 3×4 @7 RPE

RPE is added to sets and reps to dictate the load used. In this example the athlete (Jane) does her warmup, followed by a set or two that test the waters for the day. After her warmup, Jane does 1×5 at 320 lbs. She rates the set @7 RPE. The weight is too light for a work set, since the plan calls for a top set @8. So she adds 15lbs and performs the next set. She rates set 1x5x335 @8. Bingo! This is her top set (first work set or highest load training set), and she performs the remaining sets with the same load.* Its presumable and even expected that the next set Jane performs is higher than RPE 8—she has accumulated fatigue, so the set will feel more like an @8.5 or @9.

https://propanefitness.com/rpe-method-implement-rpes-training-bryce-lewis-guest-article/

Dtp1979

Yea it says somewhere to start at the lower end and gauge from there. I’m just not used to taking weight off the bar, or to add it, if it feels too light/heavy, to suit an RPE.

Alf Veedersane

The fact there's an allowance for % of 1RM means there is scope to change weight to keep at RPE 7. Rests aren't timed so there shouldn't be much of a drop off from first to last...recovery should be fine from RPE 7 sets.

caviardreams

Key point here being that Jane can squat 150kg for a set of 5. :eek::pac:

Seriously, I tried an RPE block recently and found it took a bit to get the hang of tbh. I like it though as I find my strength can really vary from session to session sometimes depending on sleep, recovery, stress, being a girl :rolleyes: etc. so it gives you a bit more flexibility rather than having to hit a certain pre-defined target.

Alf Veedersane

RPE training is reasonably straightforward once the programme is clear, e.g. if all 3 sets should be RPE 7 and the weight adjusts accordingly or otherwise.

Edit: it just takes time to get the feel for what the RPE 7/8/9 etc is.

Consider RPE 10 to be the point of technical failure. Otherwise you'll be grinding at 8.5+

Most of all, be honest with yourself and treat each session independently. It doesn't matter what your heavy squat day was like the last time so you don't need to try and go heavier than the weight you did then. Some days it will be less and some days it will be more. Just stick the honest RPE.

coffee_cake

I'm terrible at the independent session bit... Sitting in the gym and it just occurred to me this is not rpe 7 at all
Hahah

Dtp1979

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Most of all, be honest with yourself and treat each session independently. It doesn't matter what your heavy squat day was like the last time so you don't need to try and go heavier than the weight you did then. Some days it will be less and some days it will be more. Just stick the honest RPE.

This program suggests that I add weight each week, and drop reps up until a deload at week 4. That can only go on for so long though, prob till I squat 300kg(ha yeah right). After that it’ll be doing X weight at RPE 8 one week and a few weeks later doing the same and it’d be RPE 7. Is that the jist of it?

Alf Veedersane

Dtp1979 wrote: »

This program suggests that I add weight each week, and drop reps up until a deload at week 4. That can only go on for so long though, prob till I squat 300kg(ha yeah right). After that it’ll be doing X weight at RPE 8 one week and a few weeks later doing the same and it’d be RPE 7. Is that the jist of it?

In theory, there will likely be a similar progression as there would be working off fixed percentages. But you don't go at the top end of the range for the RPE if it isn't there, ie if you're to do a set of 7-9 at 75-80% at RPE 8, don't go after 80% if a set of 7 is going to be at RPE 9.

Without reading the details of the program, I usually consider the % as a guide of the range you should be working in but the RPE is the ultimate guide. So if you put on 80% (as above) and a set of 9 is RPE 7, I'd go up in weight. No biggie if you end up doing a set of 7-9 with 85%, for example, if that's still an RPE 7.

Because some days a set of 7-9 at RPE 7 will be less than the lower end of the range.

The RPE let's you take advantage of the days you feel great. And you still get the right work in on days you're not right when trying to hit a fixed % would be an RPE 10 and take too much of a toll on you.

Also, the theory is that if you base a 12-week programme off a fixed 1RM, as you get stronger during the programme, fixed percentages don't account for the fact that you're getting stronger, ie 8 weeks in, your true 1RM is likely to be higher than what you base your numbers off so 85% of starting numbers might actually only be 80% of a true 1RM

If all that makes sense.

Dtp1979

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

In theory, there will likely be a similar progression as there would be working off fixed percentages. But you don't go at the top end of the range for the RPE if it isn't there, ie if you're to do a set of 7-9 at 75-80% at RPE 8, don't go after 80% if a set of 7 is going to be at RPE 9.

Without reading the details of the program, I usually consider the % as a guide of the range you should be working in but the RPE is the ultimate guide. So if you put on 80% (as above) and a set of 9 is RPE 7, I'd go up in weight. No biggie if you end up doing a set of 7-9 with 85%, for example, if that's still an RPE 7.

Because some days a set of 7-9 at RPE 7 will be less than the lower end of the range.

The RPE let's you take advantage of the days you feel great. And you still get the right work in on days you're not right when trying to hit a fixed % would be an RPE 10 and take too much of a toll on you.

Also, the theory is that if you base a 12-week programme off a fixed 1RM, as you get stronger during the programme, fixed percentages don't account for the fact that you're getting stronger, ie 8 weeks in, your true 1RM is likely to be higher than what you base your numbers off so 85% of starting numbers might actually only be 80% of a true 1RM

If all that makes sense.

It does, good explanation. Thanks

Dtp1979

Writing this out now. I’m thinking it’d be far more straightforward if the rep range that is 7-9, I start week 1 and just do 9. Week 2 do 8 week 3 do 7, all at RPE 6-7 as per instructions. No need for percentage guides either. Adjust weight based on rpe Is this a bad idea?