Is MMA a sport?

Billy86

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Suggest you go on to Youtube and watch some hits by professional rugby players. The force far exceeds anything generated in MMA.

Forget rugby and check out American Football, where the ball is in the air more often and so you get more hits higher up the body, similar to boxing.

1:20 is a particularly nasty example.

The NFL recently settled a lawsuit with ex players for $1bn if I recall, and the head injuries and resulting actions/suicides of players as a result of these injuries are pretty harrowing. One 24 year old was found to effectively have the brain of someone in their 80s, another guy blew his chest open with a shotgun leaving a note begging them to examine his brain (hence why he didn't shoot himself in the head), and so on.

Jodotman

tayto lover wrote: »

I didn't ever say that. You need to read the posts.
My comment was, yet again, that a fighter already injured and lying on the ground can be continually hit BEFORE the referee realizes that he is in trouble, unconscious etc and then decides to stop the fight. It could be too late.

Yes could happen. No one is forced into the octagon or anything. It's their own choice.

It's still a sport.

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

Again. Because fighters are allowed to be hit while on the ground injured. I don't believe that's right. As I said they could already have received a serious injury before the referee realises they're not fighting back and decides to stop the fight.

Pretty sure most evidence points to a higher number of brain injuries in boxing than MMA. If this evidence is shown to you, are you going to immediately decide MMA is a sport and/or boxing is not?

tayto lover

Billy86 wrote: »

Pretty sure most evidence points to a higher number of brain injuries in boxing than MMA. If this evidence is shown to you, are you going to immediately decide MMA is a sport and/or boxing is not?

Look if you think/believe it's a sport that's fine. RTE already agrees with you.

I just don't. I see no sport in it. It's too vicious imo.

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

Look if you think/believe it's a sport that's fine. RTE already agrees with you.

I just don't. I see no sport in it. It's too vicious imo.

So you don't classify it as a sport because you think it has too much risk for injury.

But if it shown to you that boxing presents a bigger risk of serious injury, you're just going to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore it?

tayto lover

Billy86 wrote: »

So you don't classify it as a sport because you think it has too much risk for injury.

But if it shown to you that boxing presents a bigger risk of serious injury, you're just going to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore it?

Boxing has been around much longer than this always puts the the welfare and safety of boxers first.

aido79

tayto lover wrote: »

In boxing the referee can stop the fight if he thinks a boxer is not fit to continue. Happens all the time.
The safety of the fighter is paramount in boxing.

If a fighter in MMA is not actively defending themselves then the referee ends the fight. What's the difference?

TimRiggins

tayto lover wrote: »

Boxing has been around much longer than this always puts the the welfare and safety of boxers first.

What has Boxing being around longer have to do with anything? Boxer is a form of MMA, Among many other things.

MMA is PROVEN to be safer than Boxing no matter what you say about getting hit on the ground.

Effects

tayto lover wrote: »

Is a brawl outside a pub a sport then?

No, that's amateur boxing.

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

Boxing has been around much longer than this always puts the the welfare and safety of boxers first.

If that is true, boxing will have lower serious brain injury rates.

Why avoid the question? If the reason you think MMA is not a sport is because of serious injury risks, then surely you will consider it a sport, or consider boxing to not be a sport, if it is shown to you that boxing carries a higher risk?

Billy86

Effects wrote: »

No, that's amateur boxing.

Brawls outside pubs don't tend to be fixed.

Jodotman

tayto lover wrote: »

Look if you think/believe it's a sport that's fine. RTE already agrees with you.

I just don't. I see no sport in it. It's too vicious imo.

So boxing let's people bate the head of themselves for 12 round's? Far more dangerous than MMA where there's wrestling, submission etc.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_563ce23be4b0411d3070c8d6

Hmm Boxing is safer because your only goal is to keep punching your opponent in the head for 12 round's OK.

tayto lover

aido79 wrote: »

If a fighter in MMA is not actively defending themselves then the referee ends the fight. What's the difference?

I boxing the other boxer is sent to his corner as soon as his opponent goes down. That's not the case in MMA. He could be hit many times more while unconscious on the ground before the ref steps in. That's not looking after his welfare.

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

I boxing the other boxer is sent to his corner as soon as his opponent goes down before being sent back in to box the head off the often punch drunk guy who does not have his wits about him for several rounds. That's not the case in MMA.

You forgot a bit, I added it in for you.

If boxing cared about the welfare of it's fighters, they'd make helmets mandatory at professional level, and likely remove the gloves as well.

Django99

tayto lover wrote: »

I boxing the other boxer is sent to his corner as soon as his opponent goes down. That's not the case in MMA. He could be hit many times more while unconscious on the ground before the ref steps in. That's not looking after his welfare.

Have you ever seen the Ward v Gatti fight? In round 9 Gatti is stumbling around the ring with his hands by his side while Ward chases him landing repeated blows. Gatti ends up in the corner and Ward punches his head against the corner a few times, literally bouncing it off the corner.

This is regarded as one of the best boxing matches of all time, and is more violent than anything I've seen in MMA. And I've watched both for a long time.

Effects

tayto lover wrote: »

Because fighters are allowed to be hit while on the ground injured. I don't believe that's right.

But it's totally fine putting someone into a coma as long as they stay standing?

Eubank vs. Blackwell

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/03/27/11/nick-blackwell-rex.jpg

Jodotman

tayto lover wrote: »

I boxing the other boxer is sent to his corner as soon as his opponent goes down. That's not the case in MMA. He could be hit many times more while unconscious on the ground before the ref steps in. That's not looking after his welfare.

The ref can call off the fight before this or a person can be submitted. Please watch a bit of MMA. Boxing Is worse where your punching the head off a guy for 12 rounds compared to three of five in MMA where a lot of is wrestling. One punch is better than having 200 thrown at you in boxing where you can get back up all ready concussed. And have another 200 thrown at you. Fighters are well protected and well trained in MMa.

TimRiggins

tayto lover wrote: »

I boxing the other boxer is sent to his corner as soon as his opponent goes down. That's not the case in MMA. He could be hit many times more while unconscious on the ground before the ref steps in. That's not looking after his welfare.

2/3 tops.

In Boxing he'd take a 10 count and then go back out and take multiple blows to the head. Your example is due to a referee shortcoming rather than the actual sport.

The continuation of going back out is what is giving Boxers huge concussion problems where as in MMA while they may take a few extra shots there largely usually okay after the fight.

Alf Veedersane

tayto lover wrote: »

I boxing the other boxer is sent to his corner as soon as his opponent goes down. That's not the case in MMA. He could be hit many times more while unconscious on the ground before the ref steps in. That's not looking after his welfare.

Not MANY more times. Until he's not defending himsellf. Which is not at all if he's unconscious.

It's not that long ago that Chris Eubank was telling his son in the corner that of the referee wasn't going to stop the fight, then just punch the body. You could say Blackwell was defending himself but he was a walking punchbag.

That doesn't make boxing bad or mean it's not a sport though.

If you don't get the martial arts element of MMA that's fine. You don't appreciate the wrestling, the jujitsu, the karate or kickboxing etc....you just see the punches on the ground and have distilled it to that.

tayto lover

Billy86 wrote: »

You forgot a bit, I added it in for you.

If boxing cared about the welfare of it's fighters, they'd make helmets mandatory at professional level, and likely remove the gloves as well.[/QUOTE]


I don't see helmets in MMA.

aido79

tayto lover wrote: »

I boxing the other boxer is sent to his corner as soon as his opponent goes down. That's not the case in MMA. He could be hit many times more while unconscious on the ground before the ref steps in. That's not looking after his welfare.

There are 1000's of MMA fights on YouTube. Post a link to just one of them where a fighter has been hit on the ground multiple times while unconscious. Should be easy since you seem to think it's a regular occurrence.
I imagine you haven't watched more than 3 full MMA fights?

tayto lover

TimRiggins wrote: »

2/3 tops.

In Boxing he'd take a 10 count and then go back out and take multiple blows to the head. Your example is due to a referee shortcoming rather than the actual sport.

The continuation of going back out is what is giving Boxers huge concussion problems where as in MMA while they may take a few extra shots there largely usually okay after the fight.

Not if he was already knocked-out.

lertsnim

People are still entertaining him. Incredible.

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

You forgot a bit, I added it in for you.

If boxing cared about the welfare of it's fighters, they'd make helmets mandatory at professional level, and likely remove the gloves as well.[/QUOTE]


I don't see helmets in MMA.

Do you see helmets in professional boxing? You are the one saying boxing is interested in the wellbeing of it's athletes, so why don't they have helmets/headgear at professional level?

Again, since you are dodging it on purpose: since you are saying you don't consider MMA a sport but do consider boxing as one due to thinking there is more risk of serious brain injury in MMA, if it is to you that the reverse is true will you change your mind of just stick your fingers in your ears while shouting "la la la I can't hear you la la la"?

Because the second one if pretty much the definition of trolling.

Jodotman

tayto lover wrote: »

I boxing the other boxer is sent to his corner as soon as his opponent goes down. That's not the case in MMA. He could be hit many times more while unconscious on the ground before the ref steps in. That's not looking after his welfare.

In boxing you can continue, in MMA you cannot.

Can you not see the difference?

Jodotman

lertsnim wrote: »

People are still entertaining him. Incredible.

I think he must be lonely around Christmas looking for attention. Probably the only fight he ever watched was one of mcregor's.

tayto lover

Jodotman wrote: »

In boxing you can continue, in MMA you cannot.

Can you not see the difference?

Are you deliberately not getting the point?

He cannot continue in boxing if he is knocked-out or unconscious.
In MMA his opponent can continue to hit him when he's unconscious before the referee steps in.

tayto lover

Jodotman wrote: »

I think he must be lonely around Christmas looking for attention. Probably the only fight he ever watched was one of mcregor's.

Why would I need attention from MMA fans?
I question it being a sport and you all join together to attack and sling insults. Not very sporting.

Professor Moriarty

tayto lover wrote: »

Are you deliberately not getting the point?

He cannot continue in boxing if he is knocked-out or unconscious.
In MMA his opponent can continue to hit him when he's unconscious before the referee steps in.

You don't get 10 seconds to recover your senses in MMA.

tayto lover

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

You don't get 10 seconds to recover your senses in MMA.

I know. You can be hit while unconscious on the ground. That's my main point.

Jodotman

tayto lover wrote: »

Are you deliberately not getting the point?

He cannot continue in boxing if he is knocked-out or unconscious.
In MMA his opponent can continue to hit him when he's unconscious before the referee steps in.

A boxer has 10 second's to get back up and continue, many of them do even though they are all ready beaten alive.

In MMA you don't have that option. Many could get back up within the 10 seconds and continue but it's not in the rules. Referee usually call off the fight well before there getting pummelled on the ground.

How many MMA fights have you honestly watched?

Professor Moriarty

tayto lover wrote: »

I know. You can be hit while unconscious on the ground. That's my main point.

True.

TimRiggins

tayto lover wrote: »

Not if he was already knocked-out.

Which doesn't happen alot of the time and even moreso at the top level when they are less KOs.

I think you're obviously probably an old man stuck in your ways, pig ignorant and not going to change, you've had every claim you've made completely debunked in this thread and you fail to see it because you don't want too see it.

I'm out!

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

I know. You can be hit while unconscious on the ground. That's my main point.

Again, since you are dodging it on purpose: since you are saying you don't consider MMA a sport but do consider boxing as one due to thinking there is more risk of serious brain injury in MMA, if it is to you that the reverse is true will you change your mind of just stick your fingers in your ears while shouting "la la la I can't hear you la la la"?

Because the second one if pretty much the definition of trolling.

tayto lover

Billy86 wrote: »

Again, since you are dodging it on purpose: since you are saying you don't consider MMA a sport but do consider boxing as one due to thinking there is more risk of serious brain injury in MMA, if it is to you that the reverse is true will you change your mind of just stick your fingers in your ears while shouting "la la la I can't hear you la la la"?

Because the second one if pretty much the definition of trolling.

I don't get what you're on about here??

ScumLord

tayto lover wrote: »

I boxing the other boxer is sent to his corner as soon as his opponent goes down. That's not the case in MMA. He could be hit many times more while unconscious on the ground before the ref steps in. That's not looking after his welfare.

And why is that better? YOu are assuming again, that the way you're used to is better because your more familiar with it.

In MMA once a person starts losing badly the ref stops the fight. It's not about injury in MMA if you can't put up a defence it's considered a loss.

How is it better that once a person get's put down that the other fighter gets to take a break while the injured opponent proves to the ref he can stand up and then goes back to getting beat up?

It's swings and roundabouts, both are a combat sport where the objective is to better your opponent.

At this stage it seems clear you're being wilfully ignorant about it and aren't willing to put in any kind of effort to change your ignorance.

Billy86

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't get what you're on about here??

You said you don't consider MMA a sport because of the potential for serious injuries. Yet you do do consider boxing a sport, because of it's potential for serious injuries.

If it is shown to you that boxing causes more serious injuries than MMA, will you change your opinion or try to shift the goalposts/ignore it?

Jodotman

Please have a read.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/10-year-study-finds-boxing-much-more-dangerous-than-MMA

tayto lover

ScumLord wrote: »

And why is that better? YOu are assuming again, that the way you're used to is better because your more familiar with it.

In MMA once a person starts losing badly the ref stops the fight. It's not about injury in MMA if you can't put up a defence it's considered a loss.

How is it better that once a person get's put down that the other fighter gets to take a break while the injured opponent proves to the ref he can stand up and then goes back to getting beat up?

It's swings and roundabouts, both are a combat sport where the objective is to better your opponent.

At this stage it seems clear you're being wilfully ignorant about it and aren't willing to put in any kind of effort to change your ignorance.

To be fair to you your points are good even if i disagree on your argument. I have seen many many boxing matches stopped before anyone even went down to the canvas. The ref stepped in to stop it. I have watched about 15/20 MMA fights and never saw that occur.
I intend to watch a few more online to see if changes my mind but I seriously doubt it will.

irelandrover

tayto lover wrote: »

To be fair to you your points are good even if i disagree on your argument. I have seen many many boxing matches stopped before anyone even went down to the canvas. The ref stepped in to stop it. I have watched about 15/20 MMA fights and never saw that occur.
I intend to watch a few more online to see if changes my mind but I seriously doubt it will.

Well, at least you're going into it with an open mind.

ScumLord

tayto lover wrote: »

To be fair to you your points are good even if i disagree on your argument. I have seen many many boxing matches stopped before anyone even went down to the canvas. The ref stepped in to stop it. I have watched about 15/20 MMA fights and never saw that occur.
I intend to watch a few more online to see if changes my mind but I seriously doubt it will.

When I say it's a complex sport it really is. When guys are grappling on the ground it's a chess match and you really need to have some sort of understanding of what they're trying to do or it's just going to look like two guys having a street fight.

I was lucky enough to see UFC from the very beginning so I saw it progress from a spectacle of two mismatched fighters seeing what would happen to, highly trained fighters that know how to exploit the fact they can use many different disciplines. UFC did specials showing some of the fundamentals of different disciplines, how arm bars worked, how to avoid them.

Now they've gotten to the stage where a fighter has conditioned his body to be able to resist a chokehold and be able to get up and fight back.

McGregor sort of gives a false impression of the sport, he's a knockout merchant which isn't usually how MMA fights go, usually it's a grind to the end where guys are trying to figure out which one of their skill sets is better than the other guys and how to apply it without falling victim to the other guys strengths.

pickarooney

tayto lover wrote: »

Not very sporting.

If this is what you originally meant instead of 'not really a sport' you could have saved an awful lot of time.

peejay1986

tayto lover wrote: »

But you don't see that in it.
It looks like like a brawl where you knock your opponent to the floor by brute force and then pummel him into submission.

But as a fan of boxing you're happier watching someone repeatedly punch an opponent in more limited number of areas (mostly head) with heavier gloves over a longer fight?

Boxing is brutal. MMA is brutal. Rugby is brutal. Some sports just are. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine, but to dismiss it in such a manner is just lazy and uneducated, and cancels out any argument you may have on the matter.

ttenneb

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Once your opponent is standing, you can punch, kick, knee or elbow them.

. . . and this is civilised behaviour?

John_D80

tayto lover wrote: »

So you think that a head taking a punch with force and no room for recoil is not as bad a with recoil. You should watch what happens when a car hits a wall or tree. Same principle.

It's not the same principle at all. Not even remotely close. A structure like like a moving automobile can not for one second be compared to a human brain.

Are you frickin serious??

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lads the OP will argue that black is white, you're wasting your time.

Ash.J.Williams

foggy_lad wrote: »

What official bodies recognise it as a sport?

Is there MMA in the Olympics or Paralympics?

no but many of individual disciplines that make up MMA are in the olympics. Ronda Rousey is an olympic gold medalist. MMA is also relatively new on the scene. It takes years of lobbying and no doubt a back hander or two to gain access to the olympics and i've not heard if anyone is bothered.

Mean Laqueefa

not a sport ?
doesn't involve skill ?
can be entertainment and skill ? RTE love them rugby highlights of POC smashing people in the ruck (on the ground) and standing on people.

Every argument saying boxing is more dangerous is correct.

Professor Moriarty

ttenneb wrote: »

. . . and this is civilised behaviour?

If the participants are partaking of their own free will. Is it civilised to whip horses around a course with extremely high fences? Is it civilised if a jockey breaks his neck or a horse breaks his leg? There are many examples of questionable 'civilised behaviour' .

mdwexford

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

no but many of individual disciplines that make up MMA are in the olympics. Ronda Rousey is an olympic gold medalist. MMA is also relatively new on the scene. It takes years of lobbying and no doubt a back hander or two to gain access to the olympics and i've not heard if anyone is bothered.

Ronda is actually an Olympic bronze medalist.

Sorry to be pedantic. :pac: