Is MMA a sport?

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

It says something depressing about the masses that stringing together barely coherent sentences based on "b****" and "p***y" and talking about his money and women riding his "d***" is seen as personality.

Up until McGregor the fighters would give pretty stale interviews. They would be very aware of not saying anything untowards, showing respect for the other fighter, very clean cut Americans. The reason the likes of McGregor works is because he creates a controversy that the press pick up on. If you want to turn a fight into an event you need to have someone like McGregor that can whip the media into a frenzy. It's always been like that though, boxers have been at it for decades.

McGregor puts on a good show in his fights too, they're always edge of the seat fights where you know it could go either way in an instant because of McGregor's style. If he was all talk no action he'd be an embarrassment, but he can talk all he likes because he's skills in the ring are so good.

GerryDerpy

Deleted User wrote: »

You think references to the white man invading favelas on horseback and killing and enslaving the natives is the same as leprechaun references?

I disagree. For starters, one is based on the reality of colonisation. Like all sneering references to slavery.

I agree that racist insults may be more throwaway than, say, burning crosses on gardens...but that is no defence.

Haha I remember the horseback one. That was a good one. He said he would ride in and mount his head on a spike or something along those lines. Yeah you're right he really meant that. Deep rooted racist and pro-colonisation is McGregor. Thanks for opening my eyes. I will unfollow him in the virtual world of twitter now.

Danjamin1

McGregor has a mouth but it's hardly new to sport, what about Muhammad Ali? He was hardly one to shy away from a bit of controversy around a fight.

Edit: I should elaborate - the build up to a fight & everything around it adds to the excitement & entertainment of it, my point is that McGregor isn't the first nor will he be the last to engage in it. It goes hand in hand.

Ash.J.Williams

So far the pro MMA contributors seem to be more coherent in their arguments then the others....We can therefore conclude that It is a sport and we can let it rest now.

Ash.J.Williams

ScumLord wrote: »

Up until McGregor the fighters would give pretty stale interviews. They would be very aware of not saying anything untowards, showing respect for the other fighter, very clean cut Americans. The reason the likes of McGregor works is because he creates a controversy that the press pick up on. If you want to turn a fight into an event you need to have someone like McGregor that can whip the media into a frenzy. It's always been like that though, boxers have been at it for decades.

McGregor puts on a good show in his fights too, they're always edge of the seat fights where you know it could go either way in an instant because of McGregor's style. If he was all talk no action he'd be an embarrassment, but he can talk all he likes because he's skills in the ring are so good.

A the famous red panty press conference, Joe Duffy had the microphone and said he was looking forward to a good fight bla bla....

Joe Rogen called him out straight away and said he's just missed his chance of making a name for himself by not calling out Connor and giving some abuse of his own..
now we all know that's not joe duffys style at all, but it's true, if he wanted the big cash fights that's what was required..

ScumLord

I think McGregor has given all the fighters the kick up the hole that they needed. Now they're all calling people out, going for big money fights, trying to put on a spectacular fight. Before that they all seemed to be a bit suppressed by the UFC, they were always very respectful to the owners and thanked them for the opportunities and so on. Now the pre fight build up is entertainment in itself and the fighters go hell for leather once they get in the ring. They're treating each fight more as an opportunity than another day at work.

Pac1Man

MMA has ruined most other sports for me (as a spectator).

To see players and fans get all hot and bothered on a pitch because the ball didn't go into the net or go over the line just seems ridiculous now!

One team scored more than the other. So what.

There are much greater consequences in a fight which is why it is so intriguing.

Professor Moriarty

MagicIRL wrote:

*You can then photograph yourself doing this in the hope of going viral and can look forward to being posted on TheJuunral.ie, which we all know should be the equivalent of a second Christmas for you and is something every Irishman and Irishwoman aspires to someday.

ScumLord wrote:

I think McGregor has given all the fighters the kick up the hole that they needed. Now they're all calling people out, going for big money fights, trying to put on a spectacular fight. Before that they all seemed to be a bit suppressed by the UFC, they were always very respectful to the owners and thanked them for the opportunities and so on. Now the pre fight build up is entertainment in itself and the fighters go hell for leather once they get in the ring. They're treating each fight more as an opportunity than another day at work.

Exactly. All current and future UFC fighters should be sending McGregor a Thank You note.

DrumSteve

GerryDerpy wrote: »

Just on the showmanship by McGregor. There's a video of him on YouTube (can't link easily on phone) of him watching back his own antics at a press conference. He is just laughing his head off. He genuinely just puts on a show because it's more fun that sitting their being diplomatic and being predictable.

People that take themselves too seriously will take him too seriously. If you follow McGregor you will learn to appreciate how the cocky bravado persona drops on fight night. He is the most focused and serious person on the planet. He has an amazing ability to compete without emotion. Something his competitors fail to do. Most notably Jose Aldo.

I honestly don't think I will admire another sports person more in my lifetime. He's given me some great memories with my best friends.

This is a very good point; his fights are national events at this stage. I've had some great times watching his fights.

GerryDerpy

GerryDerpy wrote: »

Haha I remember the horseback one. That was a good one. He said he would ride in and mount his head on a spike or something along those lines. Yeah you're right he really meant that. Deep rooted racist and pro-colonisation is McGregor. Thanks for opening my eyes. I will unfollow him in the virtual world of twitter now.

One can use that defence for anyone who reaches for racist abuse. "Luis Suarez, ha ha, gas man, yeah he really meant that, he's obviously a racist". We none of us know how racist McGregor is, whether he just uses it casually to goad an opponent or whether it is deep rooted. I understand he has referred to the race of other Central/South Amercian fighters, such as his use of "cholo", so seems pretty clear cut to me, but you are entitled to disagree and laugh.

Depp

Deleted User wrote: »

One can use that defence for anyone who reaches for racist abuse. "Luis Suarez, ha ha, gas man, yeah he really meant that, he's obviously a racist". We none of us know how racist McGregor is, whether he just uses it casually to goad an opponent or whether it is deep rooted. I understand he has referred to the race of other Central/South Amercian fighters, such as his use of "cholo", so seems pretty clear cut to me, but you are entitled to disagree and laugh.

''he should be locked up, its a disgrace joe!''

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

One can use that defence for anyone who reaches for racist abuse. "Luis Suarez, ha ha, gas man, yeah he really meant that, he's obviously a racist". We none of us know how racist McGregor is, whether he just uses it casually to goad an opponent or whether it is deep rooted. I understand he has referred to the race of other Central/South Amercian fighters, such as his use of "cholo", so seems pretty clear cut to me, but you are entitled to disagree and laugh.

He's just trying to get a rise out of them. It would be pretty hard to be racist against Brazilians when Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is such a fundamental of the sport. He has probably trained with Brazilians throughout he's career.

DrumSteve

ScumLord wrote: »

He's just trying to get a rise out of them. It would be pretty hard to be racist against Brazilians when Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is such a fundamental of the sport. He has probably trained with Brazilians throughout he's career.

I think he gets a kick out of riling up random numptys on the internet in addition to people in real life too. I wouldn't put too much stock in him believing half the stuff he says.

Sure, he used to have a profile on here as well.

GerryDerpy

Deleted User wrote: »

One can use that defence for anyone who reaches for racist abuse. "Luis Suarez, ha ha, gas man, yeah he really meant that, he's obviously a racist". We none of us know how racist McGregor is, whether he just uses it casually to goad an opponent or whether it is deep rooted. I understand he has referred to the race of other Central/South Amercian fighters, such as his use of "cholo", so seems pretty clear cut to me, but you are entitled to disagree and laugh.

The Suarez one is a good comparison. I'm also a big Liverpool fan and was in no way defending Suarez. Because he didn't say it with humour. He wasn't trying to joke. That's a big difference. As one poster said above, McGregor would be surrounded by Brazilians in the gym. They aren't offended by his favela comments.

ScumLord

You can see even the fighters McGregor is insulting have a smile on their face because they know it brings attention on them too.

DrumSteve

ScumLord wrote: »

You can see even the fighters McGregor is insulting have a smile on their face because they know it brings attention on them too.

just ask Jeremy Stephens... if you type in "who the **** is that guy?" on google he's the first result.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The people who think its violent and barbaric, is that because there are strikes to the head?.

Here's a clip of Judo submissions, to be more accurate ~ here's a clip of Judo fights where the opponent has his/her arms smashed and or choked unconsciousness;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa_W6e6qhVY

Or here's a local event where one Judoka chokes out another, the voice you hear coaching "Grab the knee" is me.. The whole purpose of my instruction and the Judoka's action was to purely choke out his opponent. Like MMA its up the opponent to defend himself (or herself), and/or the ref to stop the fight when the fighter can no longer defend themselves.

The choke begins are 3:15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opqEE4rX8cI

So is this a sport, too barbaric and violent (to smash an opponents limbs or choke them unconscious) ~ or is all this ok once you don't attack the head?.

John_D80

Brock Red Wool wrote: »

The people who think its violent and barbaric, is that because there are strikes to the head?.

Here's a clip of Judo submissions, to be more accurate ~ here's a clip of Judo fights where the opponent has his/her arms smashed and or choked unconsciousness;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa_W6e6qhVY

Or here's a local event where one Judoka chokes out another, the voice you hear coaching "Grab the knee" is me.. The whole purpose of my instruction and the Judoka's action was to purely choke out his opponent. Like MMA its up the opponent to defend himself (or herself), and/or the ref to stop the fight when the fighter can no longer defend themselves.

The choke begins are 3:15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opqEE4rX8cI

So is this a sport, too barbaric and violent (to smash an opponents limbs or choke them unconscious) ~ or is all this ok once you don't attack the head?.

I've experienced both and I can honestly say I would rather a few slaps any day over getting hip tossed and slammed into the ground by a judo black belt.

DrumSteve

DrumSteve wrote: »

I think he gets a kick out of riling up random numptys on the internet in addition to people in real life too. I wouldn't put too much stock in him believing half the stuff he says.

Possibly. Or maybe he likes to be admired by random numpties, who just like the brashness and bling and shouty stuff and maybe won't really wrestle with issues like misogyny and racism? I presume that is equally plausible?

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Possibly. Or maybe he likes to be admired by random numpties, who just like the brashness and bling and shouty stuff and maybe won't really wrestle with issues like misogyny and racism? I presume that is equally plausible?

You're over-thinking it.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You're over-thinking it.

Not sure I would say overthinking but I guess people will have different levels of what is tolerable. I thought what Suarez and Terry said to opponents was outrageous too, I suspect many football fans weren't that fussed.

arybvtcw0eolkf

John_D80 wrote: »

I've experienced both and I can honestly say I would rather a few slaps any day over getting hip tossed and slammed into the ground by a judo black belt.

Yup, its funny when I train BJJ and no one wants to take grips with me standing up, I wonder why

Btw, its just a 'throw'. Judoka hate to hear a hip throw being called a 'hip toss', that just comes from poor MMA commentary.

But yes, throws hurt bad. But they work too, as Ronda Rousey demonstrated. The transition from a throw into an armbar (for example) comes natural to a Judoka and as you know from training BJJ, an armbar is designed to submit an opponent or they risk having their elbow smashed.

Meisha's elbow!..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lGZkUhZ9L8

That's Judo 101 for beginners, but take off the Gi and belt and suddenly its barbaric

511

DrumSteve wrote: »

I think he gets a kick out of riling up random numptys on the internet in addition to people in real life too.

Says it all, really.

Professor Moriarty

Brock Red Wool wrote: »

Yup, its funny when I train BJJ and no one wants to take grips with me standing up, I wonder why

Btw, its just a 'throw'. Judoka hate to hear a hip throw being called a 'hip toss', that just comes from poor MMA commentary.

But yes, throws hurt bad. But they work too, as Ronda Rousey demonstrated. The transition from a throw into an armbar (for example) comes natural to a Judoka and as you know from training BJJ, an armbar is designed to submit an opponent or they risk having their elbow smashed.

Meisha's elbow!..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lGZkUhZ9L8

That's Judo 101 for beginners, but take off the Gi and belt and suddenly its barbaric

If you train in judo, the first thing you learn is how to fall. Judo throws are so violent that if you don't fall properly you will sustain serious injury. You learn to roll along your shoulder with your head tucked down if it's a forward throw and to spread the force by slapping your arms back if it's a backward throw. Judo fighters can generate more force because they grip the judogi/gi (uniform).

Usually, if you don't submit (maitta in judo) to an armbar, you will break your arm or dislocate your elbow. Relocation of an elbow is an unforgettable experience.

Dtp1979

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If you train in judo, the first thing you learn is how to fall. Judo throws are so violent that if you don't fall properly you will sustain serious injury. You learn to roll along your shoulder with your head tucked down if it's a forward throw and to spread the force by slapping your arms back if it's a backward throw. Judo fighters can generate more force because they grip the judogi/gi (uniform).

Usually, if you don't submit (maitta in judo) to an armbar, you will break your arm or dislocate your elbow. Relocation of an elbow is an unforgettable experience.

What exactly is your point?

Professor Moriarty

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What exactly is your point?

A few posts above, a poster said he would rather get a few slaps than be thrown by a judo black belt. The poster I responded to spoke about armbars and judo.

What's your problem?

mdwexford

Deleted User wrote: »

Possibly. Or maybe he likes to be admired by random numpties, who just like the brashness and bling and shouty stuff and maybe won't really wrestle with issues like misogyny and racism? I presume that is equally plausible?

You spout such tripe.

osarusan

Not a big fan of the argument that because it is said just as a method of getting publicity to promote a fight, whatever McGregor might say should just be let slide.

Dtp1979

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

A few posts above, a poster said he would rather get a few slaps than be thrown by a judo black belt. The poster I responded to spoke about armbars and judo.

What's your problem?

Eeeassssyyyy there buddy. I don't do UFC fighting. I was only asking what your point was because I didn't understand what you were saying

Professor Moriarty

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Eeeassssyyyy there buddy. I don't do UFC fighting. I was only asking what your point was because I didn't understand what you were saying

Sorry! My point was that while judo throws are violent, there are ways of falling that stop injury. So I'd prefer to be thrown than get a few slaps.

raze_them_all_

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If you train in judo, the first thing you learn is how to fall. Judo throws are so violent that if you don't fall properly you will sustain serious injury. You learn to roll along your shoulder with your head tucked down if it's a forward throw and to spread the force by slapping your arms back if it's a backward throw. Judo fighters can generate more force because they grip the judogi/gi (uniform).

Usually, if you don't submit (maitta in judo) to an armbar, you will break your arm or dislocate your elbow. Relocation of an elbow is an unforgettable experience.

Really cos I remember a friend of mine dislocating his and he was laughing about it

Professor Moriarty

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Really cos I remember a friend of mine dislocating his and he was laughing about it

Nah.

Chris.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One can use that defence for anyone who reaches for racist abuse. "Luis Suarez, ha ha, gas man, yeah he really meant that, he's obviously a racist". We none of us know how racist McGregor is, whether he just uses it casually to goad an opponent or whether it is deep rooted. I understand he has referred to the race of other Central/South Amercian fighters, such as his use of "cholo", so seems pretty clear cut to me, but you are entitled to disagree and laugh.

Ah I see now. Your one of these professionally offended folk.

DrumSteve

You would need to be a legit mentalist to think the guy is a racist.

I'm not sure if it's just me cos I'm a dub too, but he's quite clearly taking the piss out of everyone. It's not just me that sees this right?

DrumSteve

DrumSteve wrote: »

You would need to be a legit mentalist to think the guy is a racist.

I'm not sure if it's just me cos I'm a dub too, but he's quite clearly taking the piss out of everyone. It's not just me that sees this right?

I haven't heard him "take the piss out of everyone". Has he referred to other races or people? I know he has referred to a German fighter as a Nazi, and you may describe that as "taking the piss" though not sure Germans appreciate it, but the rest of it seems directed at Latinos, "cholos", "those a white man like him couldn't kill were enslaved" and so on.

DrumSteve

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't heard him "take the piss out of everyone". Has he referred to other races or people? I know he has referred to a German fighter as a Nazi, and you may describe that as "taking the piss" though not sure Germans appreciate it, but the rest of it seems directed at Latinos, "cholos", "those a white man like him couldn't kill were enslaved" and so on.

Just to be clear, you think he was being legitimately serious with those comments?

osarusan

DrumSteve wrote: »

Just to be clear, you think he was being legitimately serious with those comments?

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but let me offer my opinion.

I don't think he's being serious when he calls a German a Nazi for example, not at all.

But as I said earlier, just because it's done purely for publicity and hype doesn't mean that it's beyond criticism, in my opinion.

I think the argument that 'He obviously doesn't really think he's a Nazi/He doesn't really want to ride into a favela on horseback and kill everybody not fit for work, he is just saying it for publicity so it's grand really'...is a pretty weak argument that could be used to justify any comment at all.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What exactly is your point?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

A few posts above, a poster said he would rather get a few slaps than be thrown by a judo black belt. The poster I responded to spoke about armbars and judo.

What's your problem?

I still don't get your point, are you telling me about armbars and falls or informing the thread?.

I've no idea what point you're trying to make either.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sorry! My point was that while judo throws are violent, there are ways of falling that stop injury. So I'd prefer to be thrown than get a few slaps.

Ah, just seen this now.. All fine in theory, but you won't get a competitive Judoka doing brake falls in competition and its rare they're injured from being thrown.

Why, first off after while most Judoka are pretty damned tough and will get thrown all day for laughs.. Second, if you brake fall in competition you're likely to have the ref call 'ippon' and your fight is over.

Apart from the very low grades/inexperienced Judoka don't generally do brake falls in competition.

But that's all getting away from the perception of MMA being seen by some as a barbaric sport. I asked them do they perceive it to be barbaric just because there are strikes to the head, but its ok to smash limbs and choke/strangle your opponent until they're rendered unconscious.

Billy86

511 wrote: »

Says it all, really.

Nah, just a popular fad that came from the Jimmy Kimmel show.

Markx

Googled 'sport definition' - got this:
"An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."

Professor Moriarty

Brock Red Wool wrote:

But that's all getting away from the perception of MMA being seen by some as a barbaric sport. I asked them do they perceive it to be barbaric just because there are strikes to the head, but its ok to smash limbs and choke/strangle your opponent until they're rendered unconscious.

Brock Red Wool wrote:

Apart from the very low grades/inexperienced Judoka don't generally do brake falls in competition.

Brock Red Wool wrote:

Why, first off after while most Judoka are pretty damned tough and will get thrown all day for laughs.. Second, if you brake fall in competition you're likely to have the ref call 'ippon' and your fight is over.

Brock Red Wool wrote:

Ah, just seen this now.. All fine in theory, but you won't get a competitive Judoka doing brake falls in competition and its rare they're injured from being thrown.

I don't I know if you do judo, but in competition, if for instance, you've been thrown by a clean tai otoshi, you had better break your fall (especially using your feet to conact first) and accept the ippon. At best you might twist into a waza ari.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I don't I know if you do judo.

Well put it this way, if you're a Judoka we'll have certainly crossed paths.

But apart from proving that you know what breakfalls, Judogi, Tai Otoshi etc are I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

I'm asking the people who say MMA is barbaric if that's their opinion based simply on the fact that fighters are receiving strikes to the head and you keep coming at me with stuff I'm very well versed in.

If you want to talk about Judo there's a Martial Arts forum where we can chat all day, God only knows it'll be a break from the constant BJJ chat over there.

raze_them_all_

If makikomi did judo.........This thread continues to get dumber!

arybvtcw0eolkf

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

If makikomi did judo.........This thread continues to get dumber!

LOL.. And whats the craic with you.. Going to fight again or are you still suspending yourself from hooks & chains (and other craziness)?.

Agreed, its a pretty dumb thread.

raze_them_all_

Brock Red Wool wrote: »

LOL.. And whats the craic with you.. Going to fight again or are you still suspending yourself from hooks & chains (and other craziness)?.

Agreed, its a pretty dumb thread.

naw not going to fight just dont have the drive to train 50 hours a week anymore, plus now im too fat!

Professor Moriarty

Brock Red Wool wrote: »

Well put it this way, if you're a Judoka we'll have certainly crossed paths.

But apart from proving that you know what breakfalls, Judogi, Tai Otoshi etc are I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

I'm asking the people who say MMA is barbaric if that's their opinion based simply on the fact that fighters are receiving strikes to the head and you keep coming at me with stuff I'm very well versed in.

If you want to talk about Judo there's a Martial Arts forum where we can chat all day, God only knows it'll be a break from the constant BJJ chat over there.

It's been a while since I broke any toes. My point was that an MMA fighter will know how to fall and was using judo to illustrate the point. I was responding to the idea that being thrown if you are a judoka or a wrestler is preferable than getting 'a few slaps'. Obviously the reverse is true in that a boxer would probably rather get a punch than be slammed to the ground.

Anyhow. I think it looks barbaric because of the blood. Blunt force trauma is probably worse in boxing because of 10 seconds recovery and limb injury worse in wrestling or judo because of the throws - though BJJ targets joints as well. Personally I'd rather submit to a choke/strangle/joint lock than submit to 10 elbows across the bridge of the nose.

Professor Moriarty

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

If makikomi did judo.........This thread continues to get dumber!

Gimme a break - I'm new to the site.

raze_them_all_

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Gimme a break - I'm new to the site.

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 491

Professor Moriarty

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 491

My first post was three weeks ago. Just finding my way around.