Jan transfer window

inforfun

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Transfernews!

He signed for Vitesse yesterday. Apparently they forgot how he left them.

Bridge93

Quazzie wrote: »

He is their best player, but his 1 in 2 scoring record is in a relatively poor league dominated by two teams. Outside them two the rest of the teams are relatively poor quality. You claim that he has solely raised his club team to the very top is laughable. Athleti have got where they are mostly down to their manager and how he makes the team play for each other, and certainly not because one players brought them there.

This lazy 'La Liga is a poor league' argument again. There are 4 teams in the champions league last 16. There's 3 more in the Europa League knockouts. It's not a poor league despite what you might want to believe

Quazzie

Quazzie wrote: »

Does pointing out individual players that one the odd trophy along the way really count as a valid argument in the debate of whether world class players win trophies or not? If it does then Boards.ie has really fallen in terms of the level of discussion in recent times.

Don't worry tho, you'll get your thanks from your MU chums and you'll feel great again. Well done.

It's been already detailed to you by about 3 other posters so no point in me repeating what they have said.
You made a silly point about world class players winning trophies which you got called out on.
Simples really

Bridge93

Bridge93 wrote: »

This lazy 'La Liga is a poor league' argument again. There are 4 teams in the champions league last 16. There's 3 more in the Europa League knockouts. It's not a poor league despite what you might want to believe

He keeps forgetting the champions league and the Euros
It's like they don't matter either

MD1990

Griezmann is a world class player. Been off form a bit for Atleti this season. He would be a great signing for anybody in the PL.
But I do think he is a level below Suarez,Neymar,Bale & Lewandowski.

If he was as good as them Barca & Real would be going for him as he has a 86m Buyout clause.

Quazzie

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He keeps forgetting the champions league and the Euros
It's like they don't matter either

I must have missed where he won them

Bridge93

MD1990 wrote: »

Griezmann is a world class player. Been off form a bit for Atleti this season. He would be a great signing for anybody in the PL.
But I do think he is a level below Suarez,Neymar,Bale & Lewandowski.

If he was as good as them Barca & Real would be going for him as he has a 86m Buyout clause.

Not necessarily. Barca in my opinion wouldn't go for him. Why would they? They've no need and would be another name on a crippling wage bill. Real also may not go for him knowing it's unlikely he'd cross the city divide in Madrid.

The two of them not going for him doesn't tell us much

MD1990

Bridge93 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Barca in my opinion wouldn't go for him. Why would they? They've no need and would be another name on a crippling wage bill. Real also may not go for him knowing it's unlikely he'd cross the city divide in Madrid.

The two of them not going for him doesn't tell us much

You have a point about Barca.
But Real have an injury prone Bale a declining Ronaldo & Benzema. If Griezmann was at there level they would target him. Being an Atletico player wouldn't stop them. Griezmann would likely move too with a big payrise.

He is world class but as I said a level below the players I mentioned.

Bridge93

MD1990 wrote: »

You have a point about Barca.
But Real have an injury prone Bale a declining Ronaldo & Benzema. If Griezmann was at there level they would target him. Being an Atletico player wouldn't stop them. Griezmann would likely move too with a big payrise.

He is world class but as I said a level below the players I mentioned.

Don't know how verifiable this is, those who follow Spanish football may know better, but a google brought up these quotes from Griezmann

http://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2016/11/27/583acf19268e3eaa6e8b45b8.html

Bridge93

Bridge93 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Barca in my opinion wouldn't go for him. Why would they? They've no need and would be another name on a crippling wage bill. Real also may not go for him knowing it's unlikely he'd cross the city divide in Madrid.

The two of them not going for him doesn't tell us much

Just to add to that;

Full picture has not been painted.
The whole team are not performing as well this season and he's still having a good season.
Remember they are only 6 points off top.

He currently has 12 goals for the season with 6 assists. Woeful stuff bill.
Lets also just forget about 2 previous seasons and being top goalscorer and best player the Euros while we are at it.

stesaurus

Quazzie wrote: »

Gerrard won 2 FA cups, and a Champions League, along with many other trophies. He was also never considered to be third in the world.


He is their best player, but his 1 in 2 scoring record is in a relatively poor league dominated by two teams. Outside them two the rest of the teams are relatively poor quality. You claim that he has solely raised his club team to the very top is laughable. Athleti have got where they are mostly down to their manager and how he makes the team play for each other, and certainly not because one players brought them there.

I never said anything like that. I pointed to some of his recent achievements which go a long way to explaining why he should be considered proven in the top echelon, that's all.
I wanted to rubbish your claim that only players who have trophy hauls can be considered world class. It's simply not true. The simple fact is it's a lot more nuanced than trophies, personal accolades or indeed simple stats.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

By your reasoning I'm making a strong case for Diego Costa as 3rd best player in the world. Unlike Griezmann, he actually did lead Atletico Madrid to the top, winning the league, semi finalists in the Copa Del Rey and Champions League finalists too. Then he went and won the PL for Chelsea just for good measure.

My reasoning didn't state that at all. Now if Utd don't end up signing him which is very possible but maybe Barca come out of the woodwork and look to sign him then I'm sure your opinion changes. Until then however I'm not getting involved in your particular flavor of biased bs.

Andersonisgod

s.welstead wrote: »

I never said anything like that. I pointed to some of his recent achievements which go a long way to explaining why he should be considered proven in the top echelon, that's all.
I wanted to rubbish your claim that only players who have trophy hauls can be considered world class. It's simply not true. The simple fact is it's a lot more nuanced than trophies, personal accolades or indeed simple stats.



My reasoning didn't state that at all. Now if Utd don't end up signing him which is very possible but maybe Barca come out of the woodwork and look to sign him then I'm sure your opinion changes. Until then however I'm not getting involved in your particular flavor of biased bs.

Ye, but your reasoning kinda did state exactly that, so...this is a bit awkward.

Jayop

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ye, but your reasoning kinda did state exactly that, so...this is a bit awkward.

For a man who believes so deeply in the nuances of football you do like to take things awful literally if you think you can score a point.

Andersonisgod

Jayop wrote: »

For a man who believes so deeply in the nuances of football you do like to take things awful literally if you think you can score a point.

Can you take up his point in literally any other way? Anyway silly point, silly debate.

stesaurus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ye, but your reasoning kinda did state exactly that, so...this is a bit awkward.

I put a few headlines about him not a detailed reasoning. Actually nah, not worth it.

CantGetNoSleep

Callum Buckley has joined Aldershot Town on loan from Bournemouth. BIG NEWS

Jayop

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Can you take up his point in literally any other way? Anyway silly point, silly debate.

Yes, his point could indicate one part of a wider set if indicators in how to view a world class player. You can't take one thing in isolation and say that proves them to be a worldie, you have to look at the big picture.

You're right, it's yet another sill debate with you.

Andersonisgod

Jayop wrote: »

Yes, his point could indicate one part of a wider set if indicators in how to view a world class player. You can't take one thing in isolation and say that proves them to be a worldie, you have to look at the big picture.

You're right, it's yet another sill debate with you.

Or it's just another example of Man Utd being strongly linked with a player and a large group from their fanbase both overexaggerating the quality of the player (no less than 3rd best player in the world) or making claims about their exposure to that player which are blatantly untrue. It was already silly, I just call you out on it.

Lets put that in reverse
Barca / City / Pep obsessive who underestimates a player solely on the basis that he doesn't like Athletico Madrid and is now being linked to Utd which he despises both the team and current manager.
What's funny is I have been discussing this players quality for nearly 3+ years on this forum (Yea not in the Holy Grail La Liga Thread where only opinions count) so to rant and rave that I'm suddenly singing this players praise only now is more nonsense.
Then to add even more nonsense he then proclaims to say that my exposure to said player is blatantly untrue as if he's been watching me through my kitchen window or some Portal.
Close? I think so.
Oh and I'd say he's got a right kick out of continuing to waist peoples time to boot.

Andersonisgod

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Lets put that in reverse
Barca / City / Pep obsessive who underestimates a player solely on the basis that he doesn't like Athletico Madrid and is now being linked to Utd which he despises both the team and current manager.
What's funny is I have been discussing this players quality for nearly 3+ years on this forum (Yea not in the Holy Grail La Liga Thread where only opinions count) so to rant and rave that I'm suddenly singing this players praise only now is more nonsense.
Then to add even more nonsense he then proclaims to say I have no exposure to said player which is apparently blatantly untrue as if he's been watching me through my kitchen window or some Portal.
Close? I think so.
Oh and I'd say he's got a right kick out of continuing to waist peoples time to boot.

Tranquillo

Jayop

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Or it's just another example of Man Utd being strongly linked with a player and a large group from their fanbase both overexaggerating the quality of the player (no less than 3rd best player in the world) or making claims about their exposure to that player which are blatantly untrue. It was already silly, I just call you out on it.

I'm not debating the quality of the player. I'm simply pointing out the huge amount of nonsense in your post.

FWIW I wouldn't currently rate him higher than Suarez, although if we were to get Suarez on a free transfer I wouldn't want him. Out of the players that are currently ranked above him or around him he's probably the one that I'd prefer more than any other. That's not over rating him, that's just the reality.

Take Messi and Ronaldo as a given...
Then take the four MD mentioned, Suarez,Neymar,Bale & Lewandowski.

Messi will be 30 in the summer
Ronaldo will be 32 in February
Suarez will be 30 next week and I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire
Lewandowski will be 29 in the summer
Bale will be 28 in the summer
Neymar is 25 next month
Griezmann will be 26 in March.

Purely in terms of building a squad for the long term, only Bale, Neymar or Griezmann would be really good options. The rest are still absolutely fantastic footballers, but their best days will soon be behind them and for the cost of a transfer it would be madness.

Neymar is a great player, not one I ever looked at and thought would be perfectly suited to the league, but I think that about loads of players and get proved wrong. I do think though that given where he is and where he's from the only reason he'd ever come to England would be for the money.

Bale would be perfect for the league and United, we all know this however he's already turned down two chances at least to sign for us so clearly his heart is where it is. Good for him.

Griezmann I think you can agree is a magnificent footballer, at the age where he should be just about to really hit his peak for the next 4/5 years. He's also from France and top French players have traditionally always been really suited to the premier league and United. He also seems to have some connection to the club with family members openly supporting the side and that connection helps.

Long story short, a few of them are too old for what we'd have to pay and get from them, one of them is an absolute tool and the others don't want to play for United. I'd always prefer a player who wants to be there.

Jayop

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Lets put that in reverse
Barca / City / Pep obsessive who underestimates a player solely on the basis that he doesn't like Athletico Madrid and is now being linked to Utd which he despises both the team and current manager.
What's funny is I have been discussing this players quality for nearly 3+ years on this forum (Yea not in the Holy Grail La Liga Thread where only opinions count) so to rant and rave that I'm suddenly singing this players praise only now is more nonsense.
Then to add even more nonsense he then proclaims to say that my exposure to said player is blatantly untrue as if he's been watching me through my kitchen window or some Portal.
Close? I think so.
Oh and I'd say he's got a right kick out of continuing to waist peoples time to boot.

It's the same nonsense we seen with Pogba. On that City forum bluemoon they had their biggest ever transfer thread when they were linked with him. He was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Once we signed him he's an overrated poser who's a nothing footballer.

At least when we're linked with a player and he goes to an opponent I'll try to keep my opinions consistent. Mane is a good example. I had said how highly I rated him and how for the money how would be an excellent player. He went to Liverpool and I still am of the same opinion. Of course I now hate everything about him, but my views on his ability are the same.

CantGetNoSleep

Leonardo Ulloa looking for a move, believed to be to Alaves, remember that famous 5-4 UEFA cup final back in 2001?

TitianGerm

Jayop wrote: »

I'm not debating the quality of the player. I'm simply pointing out the huge amount of nonsense in your post.

FWIW I wouldn't currently rate him higher than Suarez, although if we were to get Suarez on a free transfer I wouldn't want him. Out of the players that are currently ranked above him or around him he's probably the one that I'd prefer more than any other. That's not over rating him, that's just the reality.

Take Messi and Ronaldo as a given...
Then take the four MD mentioned, Suarez,Neymar,Bale & Lewandowski.

Messi will be 30 in the summer
Ronaldo will be 32 in February
Suarez will be 30 next week and I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire
Lewandowski will be 29 in the summer
Bale will be 28 in the summer
Neymar is 25 next month
Griezmann will be 26 in March.

Purely in terms of building a squad for the long term, only Bale, Neymar or Griezmann would be really good options. The rest are still absolutely fantastic footballers, but their best days will soon be behind them and for the cost of a transfer it would be madness.

Neymar is a great player, not one I ever looked at and thought would be perfectly suited to the league, but I think that about loads of players and get proved wrong. I do think though that given where he is and where he's from the only reason he'd ever come to England would be for the money.

Bale would be perfect for the league and United, we all know this however he's already turned down two chances at least to sign for us so clearly his heart is where it is. Good for him.

Griezmann I think you can agree is a magnificent footballer, at the age where he should be just about to really hit his peak for the next 4/5 years. He's also from France and top French players have traditionally always been really suited to the premier league and United. He also seems to have some connection to the club with family members openly supporting the side and that connection helps.

Long story short, a few of them are too old for what we'd have to pay and get from them, one of them is an absolute tool and the others don't want to play for United. I'd always prefer a player who wants to be there.

I haven't seen much of Aboomerang lately. How does he compare to Griezman?

Jayop

emmetkenny wrote: »

I haven't seen much of Aboomerang lately. How does he compare to Griezman?

Me neither. He's 2 years older but going by his record this season and last are the best he's had by miles. I don't think any of us would say we wouldn't be delighted if we signed him for our respective clubs. I love the connection between Greizmann and United though.

Also, it's not a massive thing but Aubameyang goes off to the Afcon every two years and that's a massive pain in the hole if he's going to be your main man.

TitianGerm

Jayop wrote: »

Me neither. He's 2 years older but going by his record this season and last are the best he's had by miles. I don't think any of us would say we wouldn't be delighted if we signed him for our respective clubs. I love the connection between Greizmann and United though.

Also, it's not a massive thing but Aubameyang goes off to the Afcon every two years and that's a massive pain in the hole if he's going to be your main man.

You've seen the hassle we've had with Matip this time and him having retired previously. You don't mind loosing the player when they want to go but it's a different story when they don't want to play International anymore.

Jayop

emmetkenny wrote: »

You've seen the hassle we've had with Matip this time and him having retired previously. You don't mind loosing the player when they want to go but it's a different story when they don't want to play International anymore.

As I said in your thread it's a disgrace that that's happening.

CSF

Big lover of Atletico, very much hope Griezmann does not leave in the Summer, although I fear he will given Simeone will probably leave too and that will make it the easiest transfer window to sign the best players from the last few years (Koke is still the one I'd be targeting if I was a big club with the money to spend).

Was delighted to see Griezmann get 3rd in the Ballon D'or, adequately recognising him as a star player in teams that were extremely unlucky in Euro 2016 and Champions League finals (Ronaldo obviously benefitted heavily from being on the other side of those games).

But if we're unbiased about this, Griezmann is not the 3rd best player in the world. A great player who will go onto be a better player but not naturally gifted in quite the same way as Neymar or Bale and obviously Suarez is currently on a whole other level.

I think I saw someone make a comparison to Lewandowski and that's probably about right. If someone made me choose between those 2 I think I'd have to go to cointoss.

Chancer3001

Jesus is there a way to report an entire thread?

This is.not a transfer thread.

Its mainly a comparison of opinions thread now.

The Talking Bread

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Jesus is there a way to report an entire thread?

This is.not a transfer thread.

Its mainly a comparison of opinions thread now.

report it then. Or do you just want to tell people you think it should be reported?

Harry Palmr

Jermaine Pennant to er Bury.

Moist Bread

The Talking Bread wrote: »

report it then. Or do you just want to tell people you think it should be reported?

Nothing wrong with voicing your frustrations.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/822365611288363008

"City to listen to offers for Aguero."

Andersonisgod

Won't sell him in January but wouldn't be at all surprised to see him sold in the summer. He hasn't adapted well at all, though City will need to have a star man lined up and confident that they can sign or this may look a bit silly.

greendom

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Won't sell him in January but wouldn't be at all surprised to see him sold in the summer. He hasn't adapted well at all, though City will need to have a star man lined up and confident that they can sign or this may look a bit silly.

Sorry for voicing an opinion but that reflects more on Guardiola than Agueeeeeroo.

Andersonisgod

greendom wrote: »

Sorry for voicing an opinion but that reflects more on Guardiola than Agueeeeeroo.

Why is the player absolved of blame? Or perhaps, just like with Mario Goetze, nobody is to blame. Maybe both parties have worked extremely hard to make it work but it just hasn't clicked? Why does everything need a culprit? Why does every situation require a trial and sentence? Is it possible that sometimes things just aren't meant to be?

In any case we aren't even sure how true this story is so before we fire up the electric chair let's see how it plays out.

TitianGerm

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Won't sell him in January but wouldn't be at all surprised to see him sold in the summer. He hasn't adapted well at all, though City will need to have a star man lined up and confident that they can sign or this may look a bit silly.

He's been outstanding for City since he signed. He's probably the best striker in the PL.

Madness for Pep to cut off his nose to spite his face.

There will be piles of clubs making bids for him.

GLaDOS

18 goals in 23 appearances in all competitions this season. I'm not sure what the problem is.

bucketybuck

GLaDOS wrote: »

I'm not sure what the problem is.

The manager.

Louis Van Gaal mark 2 not using his assets effectively.

Andersonisgod

emmetkenny wrote: »

He's been outstanding for City since he signed. He's probably the best striker in the PL.

Madness for Pep to cut off his nose to spite his face.

There will be piles of clubs making bids for him.

I'm not sure what part of this is Guardiola cutting off his nose. That'd be the case if he personally didn't like Aguero or if he wasn't playing him but neither of those 2 things are true. I'm sure Guardiola would love to have a top-of-his-form Aguero banging in goals every week.

MD1990

I don't think Aguero is quite as good as he was. Not as explosive but still a great player. Seen a few of his team mates mention that he is a very lazy in training so maybe Pep in annoyed at that if he is being sold.

CantGetNoSleep

Just as we were getting over Griezmann and talking about transfers again

TitianGerm

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'm not sure what part of this is Guardiola cutting off his nose. That'd be the case if he personally didn't like Aguero or if he wasn't playing him but neither of those 2 things are true. I'm sure Guardiola would love to have a top-of-his-form Aguero banging in goals every week.

He hasn't even tried to get the best out of Augero or even modify his system slightly to benefit him.

That's a failure on Pep part. Now because he deems Augero not up to his system he wants rid. That's crazy to be honest. Managers have to adapt or they will fail the majority of the time.

A good manager raises the ability of the players. Look at Klopp, Conte and Mourinho (big turn around for both over last year). Can you honestly say the city players are playing better this year than last?

Looking in at City there are cracks starting to appear. Replacing Joe Hart with a guy who's good with his feet, and all he's done is kick the ball out of the back of the net and now Augero being sold. If Mourinho came in and did something like this he'd be slated.

I like Pep but I think he didn't realise the task of the job before taking it at City.

GavRedKing

emmetkenny wrote: »

He hasn't even tried to get the best out of Augero or even modify his system slightly to benefit him.

That's a failure on Pep part. Now because he deems Augero not up to his system he wants rid. That's crazy to be honest. Managers have to adapt or they will fail the majority of the time.

A good manager raises the ability of the players. Look at Klopp, Conte and Mourinho (big turn around for both over last year). Can you honestly say the city players are playing better this year than last?

Looking in at City there are cracks starting to appear. Replacing Joe Hart with a guy who's good with his feet, and all he's done is kick the ball out of the back of the net and now Augero being sold. If Mourinho came in and did something like this he'd be slated.

I like Pep but I think he didn't realise the task of the job before taking it at City.

He hasnt cut his cloth accordingly and adapted that team, and this is a team that should be in truth, winning the league and it is currently battling for 4th.

The squad does need an overhaul, especially the back line which is devoid of any decent defender but if its true that hes getting rid of Aguero, even if its the summer, thats madness.

It could open up Griezmann to Utd though, Aguero could go back to Atletico but at the moment its just paper talk.

Andersonisgod

emmetkenny wrote: »

He hasn't even tried to get the best out of Augero or even modify his system slightly to benefit him.

That's a failure on Pep part. Now because he deems Augero not up to his system he wants rid. That's crazy to be honest. Managers have to adapt or they will fail the majority of the time.

A good manager raises the ability of the players. Look at Klopp, Conte and Mourinho (big turn around for both over last year). Can you honestly say the city players are playing better this year than last?

Looking in at City there are cracks starting to appear. Replacing Joe Hart with a guy who's good with his feet, and all he's done is kick the ball out of the back of the net and now Augero being sold. If Mourinho came in and did something like this he'd be slated.

I like Pep but I think he didn't realise the task of the job before taking it at City.

I don't want to throw this thread off with continued discussion of a topic that's been discussed to death, I'll welcome any PM's you want to send me and I'll answer them there, I'll just finish up here by saying that there is literally no coach in the league who has used a greater range of systems this season than Guardiola (and it isn't even close) so to say he hasn't tried to find a shape to best suit his players couldn't be more off the money.

If anything the formation he's used in the last 2 games (moving Sterling central and closer to Aguero, having him run behind centre backs) should be getting the best out of the Argentine in a similar way that Conte moving Hazard and Pedro closer to Costa has gotten the best out of Costa. Clearly there is s failing in regards to Aguero but to say that failing is through lack of effort is wrong.

I won't talk about the other stuff here.

Cookiemunster

GavRedKing wrote: »

He hasnt cut his cloth accordingly and adapted that team, and this is a team that should be in truth, winning the league and it is currently battling for 4th.

The squad does need an overhaul, especially the back line which is devoid of any decent defender but if its true that hes getting rid of Aguero, even if its the summer, thats madness.

It could open up Griezmann to Utd though, Aguero could go back to Atletico but at the moment its just paper talk.

Pending the result of their appeal, Atletico are banned from signing anyone until next January.

GavRedKing

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Pending the result of their appeal, Atletico are banned from signing anyone until next January.

Real got there ban reduced so I'd be surprised if Atletico didnt get a similar result.

If they are stuck not signing anyone then they're truly screwed, Sevilla have closed the gap on them in La Liga and theyre getting left behind at the moment in Spain, throw in another summer of that and christ knows how they will do in 2017/18.

sky88

GavRedKing wrote: »

He hasnt cut his cloth accordingly and adapted that team, and this is a team that should be in truth, winning the league and it is currently battling for 4th.

The squad does need an overhaul, especially the back line which is devoid of any decent defender but if its true that hes getting rid of Aguero, even if its the summer, thats madness.

It could open up Griezmann to Utd though, Aguero could go back to Atletico but at the moment its just paper talk.

i dont think that they should be winning the league with the team they have. i think they should be playing better then they are but the defence even on paper is average at best. no team would win a league with a defence who are collectively as bad as they have been.

Jayop

Aguero would be a brilliant signing for pretty much any side. Amazing player.

bucketybuck

Amazing how all these previously highly rated defenders at City are now considered rubbish.

Just coincidence I guess.